***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Johnny Abruzzo

Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

The Juggler

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

i like the order. the vitalogy (punkish), no code (lil country, lil eastern tinged) to yield (just plain rockin') shows how diverse they are.......then binaural came out.

BRING. BACK. JACK.

The Fixer

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

good point about the song order

howard just had the worst 3-1 swing I've ever seen in my life

Johnny Abruzzo

The Fixer wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

good point about the song order

howard just had the worst 3-1 swing I've ever seen in my life

I'm listening on radio, so didn't seen Blanton get squeezed or this bad swing. It's pathetic to lose 2 straight vs. the Cubs.

The Juggler

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

Babe Ruth's mom had a tattoo that said son. Oops, I forgot he was an orphan.

No Code is, perhaps, the greatest album by sabermetric measures. It's stacked with great songs. But the jarring order they're placed in brings it down a little bit in my book.

Madson fucking blows. Go kick another chair fucker.

good point about the song order

howard just had the worst 3-1 swing I've ever seen in my life

I'm listening on radio, so didn't seen Blanton get squeezed or this bad swing. It's pathetic to lose 2 straight vs. the Cubs.

this team needs more than one guy hitting the ball. howard's average is like 20 points higher than the next guy.

we just wasted a rare good outing by fat joe.

ruben needs to shake things up asap.

Gary Carter

Cliffy6745 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Pretty sad that a muts fan makes more sense then a phillies fan but it happen.

Just because you are a Phillies fan and love your team does not mean you can't look at a situation logically. Look at stats, figure out what they mean and decide which ones you like. I do not like all advanced stats, but a lot of them can tell you a whole lot about a players ability. If GM's and scouts are using these stats to evalute players, how are the irrelevant and not important and why should we ignore them?

Within 5 years OPS with be an official MLB statstic. You act like Ryan Howard is the second coming of Babe Ruth for fucks sake. Do we probably trash him a little more than he deserves? Yes, but that is only because he has an absurd contract.

If you can take a look at these stats, research them a bit and honestly tell me that you think RBI's and HR's are the best way to measure a players ability then I don't know what to tell you. But trashing these stats when you don't have a fucking clue what they are just makes you look ignorant.

gm's and scouts use them cause it's their fucking job to find any means necessary to win a championship. are you a fan or a gm. you and a few others totally discredit regular stats that have been around since the birth of our national pastime. to me thats ignorant and comes off like your smarter then the rest of us fans.

pearl jam's best run of music making was no code-binaural

The Fixer

metsfan wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

jamminpearls wrote:

Pretty sad that a muts fan makes more sense then a phillies fan but it happen.

Just because you are a Phillies fan and love your team does not mean you can't look at a situation logically. Look at stats, figure out what they mean and decide which ones you like. I do not like all advanced stats, but a lot of them can tell you a whole lot about a players ability. If GM's and scouts are using these stats to evalute players, how are the irrelevant and not important and why should we ignore them?

Within 5 years OPS with be an official MLB statstic. You act like Ryan Howard is the second coming of Babe Ruth for fucks sake. Do we probably trash him a little more than he deserves? Yes, but that is only because he has an absurd contract.

If you can take a look at these stats, research them a bit and honestly tell me that you think RBI's and HR's are the best way to measure a players ability then I don't know what to tell you. But trashing these stats when you don't have a fucking clue what they are just makes you look ignorant.

gm's and scouts use them cause it's their fucking job to find any means necessary to win a championship. are you a fan or a gm. you and a few others totally discredit regular stats that have been around since the birth of our national pastime. to me thats ignorant and comes off like your smarter then the rest of us fans.

pearl jam's best run of music making was no code-binaural

so people should only use the stats that have been around for 100 years? if there are more analytical stats that can be used to more accurately judge performance people shouldn't use them because other stats have been around longer. that makes sense. that's like saying people shouldn't use cell phones, they should only use land lines because they've been around longer and that's what people have always used.

sabermetrics aren't the be all end all, but they are valuable. to ignore or make fun of them because you don't understand them is shortsighted

Gary Carter

The Fixer wrote:

so people should only use the stats that have been around for 100 years? if there are more analytical stats that can be used to more accurately judge performance people shouldn't use them because other stats have been around longer. that makes sense. that's like saying people shouldn't use cell phones, they should only use land lines because they've been around longer and that's what people have always used.

sabermetrics aren't the be all end all, but they are valuable. to ignore or make fun of them because you don't understand them is shortsighted

they lose all discredit with me when one of them has a career minor leaguer as the 5th best defensive 1st baseman. i mean really that's a fucking joke.

billy beane uses them and he's never won a world series and he's the "godfather" of sabermetrics. jack z built the m's around them and look at what they are doing. i could go on and on with a list of gm's that build their teams around these "stats" and haven't won shit. hell mets gm omar minaya uses them and the mets haven't made the playoffs in 4 damn fucking years. yea those are great "stats".


thats why i bash them and will continue to do so and think they are just for gm's and fantasy baseball nerds

Cliffy6745

What about teams like Tampa and Boston?

The Juggler

if i smash my head against my computer screen and break it (or my head) can i sue pearl jam?

Cliffy6745

And if the smartest people in the game are using them, why would fans not use them?

I also don't play fantasy baseball, i just like to get a large perspective of a players ability. I love that arod has 70 RBI's right now but I also understand he is not having a great year. That is a perfect example.

Gary Carter

Cliffy6745 wrote:

And if the smartest people in the game are using them, why would fans not use them?

I also don't play fantasy baseball, i just like to get a large perspective of a players ability. I love that arod has 70 RBI's right now but I also understand he is not having a great year. That is a perfect example.

so now where calling billy beane smart. a guy who was a career minor leaguer and hasn't won shit is smart to you. wow dude just wow. how is 70 rbi's not a good season. let me guess his lame sabermetrics stats are horrible. hahaha

Cliffy6745 wrote:

What about teams like Tampa and Boston?

hahahahahaha

the number of sabermetrics teams that haven't done shit outweigh those 2 team big time. but hey you keep defended these "stats" and use 2 teams and i'll keep bringing up many teams that haven't done shit that use these "stats".

Gary Carter

The Jeagler wrote:

if i smash my head against my computer screen and break it (or my head) can i sue pearl jam?

they might revoke your membership or give you bad seats if you sue. best not bash your head against the computer screen.

lol

Cliffy6745

It is a fact that Arod is not having a typical Arod year regardless if he has 70 RBI's, the only reason he made the all star team is because Girardi brought him. His power has been borderline gone for a good part of the season. I don't care if he has 70 RBI's, he is not having an Arod year.

Newsflash. Every GM uses advanced stats. Some do it better than others.

Gary Carter

Cliffy6745 wrote:

It is a fact that Arod is not having a typical Arod year regardless if he has 70 RBI's, the only reason he made the all star team is because Girardi brought him. His power has been borderline gone for a good part of the season. I don't care if he has 70 RBI's, he is not having an Arod year.

Newsflash. Every GM uses advanced stats. Some do it better than others.

newsflash for you these stats are stupid and the number of teams who use them and haven't done shit outweigh the teams that have won using them.

it really is arguing with a brick wall with you sabermetrics guys

Cliffy6745

metsfan wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

It is a fact that Arod is not having a typical Arod year regardless if he has 70 RBI's, the only reason he made the all star team is because Girardi brought him. His power has been borderline gone for a good part of the season. I don't care if he has 70 RBI's, he is not having an Arod year.

Newsflash. Every GM uses advanced stats. Some do it better than others.

newsflash for you these stats are stupid and the number of teams who use them and haven't done shit outweigh the teams that have won using them.

it really is arguing with a brick wall with you sabermetrics guys

Yep, they are stupid and have no place in baseball. Looking at a sport that is based on stats analytically makes no sense.

Every team uses them and you are crazy if you think they don't. That is a fact. It is what it is, if every GM in baseball is stupid, then I will be stupid with them.

It is impossible to argue with someone who's response is, "sabermetrics are stupid" when in an arguement. We have offered many reasons as to why we think they are a good way to HELP measure a players ability and all you have come back with is that they are "stupid". Offer up an argument and we can talk.


Edit: One example off the top of my head of a GM citing advanced stats is when Cashman discussed the Swisher trade. He cited the fact that Swiser had a very low BABIP while maintaing a consistent Line Drive rate and OBP as to why he thought Swiser would rebound. How did that work out?

Gary Carter

Cliffy6745 wrote:

Yep, they are stupid and have no place in baseball. Looking at a sport that is based on stats analytically makes no sense.

Every team uses them and you are crazy if you think they don't. That is a fact. It is what it is, if every GM in baseball is stupid, then I will be stupid with them.

It is impossible to argue with someone who's response is, "sabermetrics are stupid" when in an arguement. We have offered many reasons as to why we think they are a good way to HELP measure a players ability and all you have come back with is that they are "stupid". Offer up an argument and we can talk.

i have offered up arguements besides saying stupid. now your just reaching to prove your right in your little sabermetric world. i can keep this pissing match going all night long with you if you want to.

metsfan wrote:

they lose all discredit with me when one of them has a career minor leaguer as the 5th best defensive 1st baseman. i mean really that's a fucking joke.

billy beane uses them and he's never won a world series and he's the "godfather" of sabermetrics. jack z built the m's around them and look at what they are doing. i could go on and on with a list of gm's that build their teams around these "stats" and haven't won shit. hell mets gm omar minaya uses them and the mets haven't made the playoffs in 4 damn fucking years. yea those are great "stats".


thats why i bash them and will continue to do so and think they are just for gm's and fantasy baseball nerds

metsfan wrote:

the number of sabermetrics teams that haven't done shit outweigh those 2 team big time. but hey you keep defended these "stats" and use 2 teams and i'll keep bringing up many teams that haven't done shit that use these "stats".

do any of these 2 posts sound stupid to you?

Cliffy6745

But the fact is, every GM uses advanced stats. You cite the fact it didnt work out for the Mariners, A's and Mets but the fact is every front office is using them. The Red Sox have even developed their own set of stats.

And I am not arguing with you about defensive stats, they are very flawed. I have said that many times. UZR had Tex as a below average first baseman last year which is absurd.

Gary Carter

Cliffy6745 wrote:

But the fact is, every GM uses advanced stats. You cite the fact it didnt work out for the Mariners, A's and Mets but the fact is every front office is using them. The Red Sox have even developed their own set of stats.

And I am not arguing with you about defensive stats, they are very flawed. I have said that many times. UZR had Tex as a below average first baseman last year which is absurd.

i just rattled off those 3 gm's cause they are the big 3 that use them. thats why i named those 3 teams.

you can't discredit defensive sabermetrics stats just cause they are flawed. that seems silly to do so. it will take time for the gm's to fully get defensive sabermetrics somewhat right

i have no problem with them but when your team doesn't make the playoffs for 4 straight years its hard to take them seriously like i do. luis castillo has been a great signing by omar but yet he's the offical mets fan basher. i bet omar signed him just cause he had good sabermetrics stats.

The Juggler

so, how bout those phillies...