What amazes me is the logic that because I think Utley is a better player than Howard that I am, for some reason, put in the "1 percent" that doesn't think Howard is a good player. Your ways of deduction amuse me. And this is the same dude who talks down to people when it comes to the Eagles. This is why people outside of Philly think Philly fans even eat their own.
the same thing that bothers me about Eagles fans is the same thing bothering me about this thread and that is the negativity. Why the negativity towards arguably one of the 3-4 best position players in franchise history? i don't understand it at all - same with Eagles fans, some people will just NEVER say anything positive about certain players or coaches. to constantly hear and read negativity all the time, for franchises that have had the greatest winning era's of their histories is nauseating and very frustrating at times. i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.
There is? Because apparently with you there isn't. You should really take your own advice. Because, again for some reason, just because I'm not all over Howard's scrote I am deemed not a fan of his apparently.
i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.
funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.
What amazes me is the logic that because I think Utley is a better player than Howard that I am, for some reason, put in the "1 percent" that doesn't think Howard is a good player. Your ways of deduction amuse me. And this is the same dude who talks down to people when it comes to the Eagles. This is why people outside of Philly think Philly fans even eat their own.
the same thing that bothers me about Eagles fans is the same thing bothering me about this thread and that is the negativity. Why the negativity towards arguably one of the 3-4 best position players in franchise history? i don't understand it at all - same with Eagles fans, some people will just NEVER say anything positive about certain players or coaches. to constantly hear and read negativity all the time, for franchises that have had the greatest winning era's of their histories is nauseating and very frustrating at times. i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.
There is? Because apparently with you there isn't. You should really take your own advice. Because, again for some reason, just because I'm not all over Howard's scrote I am deemed not a fan of his apparently.
not sure where i said you weren't fan - can you please show me where i singled you out by name?
I just can't wait to see how many dump trucks of money St. Louis sends to Pujols' house when it's time to sign an extension. Is A-Rod going to be a 30 mil player within his contract? Because, if not, Poop Holes is going to blow Howard's contract away.
I understand why Amaro paid him so much though. A lot of clubs, and I'm sure the Phillies are one of them, employ economists in-house - or consultants externally - to value what the worth of a player is from a sales standpoint or, by another means, a non-baseball stance. And the simplest way to break this down = CHICKS DIG THE LONG BALL.
i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.
funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.
see i was going to stop then you make a comment like this -how can one of the top offensive players in franchise history not be great? are you kidding me? can you name more than 5 position players in Phillies history better than Ryan Howard? yet he is not great - how is that possible? so a franchise that has been around for over 100 years hasn't had more than 3-5 great offensive players? uggh you wonder why i want to put my hand through the wall when i read things like this. seriously dude come on please list me the position players in franchise history that are better than Ryan Howard.
i love talking sports but it way too often degenerates into this negativity - why can't things be gray and not such black and white as great or sucks - there is an in between.
funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.
see i was going to stop then you make a comment like this -how can one of the top offensive players in franchise history not be great? are you kidding me? can you name more than 5 position players in Phillies history better than Ryan Howard? yet he is not great - how is that possible? so a franchise that has been around for over 100 years hasn't had more than 3-5 great offensive players? uggh you wonder why i want to put my hand through the wall when i read things like this. seriously dude come on please list me the position players in franchise history that are better than Ryan Howard.
he's definitely top 5 in franchise history. that doesn't mean shit though. this team's history is horrendous
funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.
see i was going to stop then you make a comment like this -how can one of the top offensive players in franchise history not be great? are you kidding me? can you name more than 5 position players in Phillies history better than Ryan Howard? yet he is not great - how is that possible? so a franchise that has been around for over 100 years hasn't had more than 3-5 great offensive players? uggh you wonder why i want to put my hand through the wall when i read things like this. seriously dude come on please list me the position players in franchise history that are better than Ryan Howard.
he's definitely top 5 in franchise history. that doesn't mean shit though. this team's history is horrendous
Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.
Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.
Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.
And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...
Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.
Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.
And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...
Sorry for my typing I meant to say that the chase brought casual fans back. But true fans like me u fixer cliffy hawks and jeags prob were back before. True fans appericate the whole game not induival things. Some might enjoy certain aspects more so the others. But to say that Howard isn't great is nuts. Someone please research who has the most hr and rbis in there 1st 4 seasons in mlb history. I'd bet he's right there,and that has to speak for its self.
Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.
Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.
And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...
Sorry for my typing I meant to say that the chase brought casual fans back. But true fans like me u fixer cliffy hawks and jeags prob were back before. True fans appericate the whole game not induival things. Some might enjoy certain aspects more so the others. But to say that Howard isn't great is nuts. Someone please research who has the most hr and rbis in there 1st 4 seasons in mlb history. I'd bet he's right there,and that has to speak for its self.
I've always wanted to see Howard be locked up and stamp his legacy as a Phillie. Same with Utley, Rollins, Hamels, Brown to-be. But I'm not at the risk of trading the integrity of what this organization has built over the last 5-8 years for sentimentality. Fans shouldn't have to worry about how much teams pay their players, but they do smack their heads against their wall when they're losing 80-90 games a year. So it should be every fan's right to care about how much players make because I don't want to see the team suffer as a whole just so I can see Ryan break A-Rod's home run record as a Phillie.
Pam what made baseball relevant again? The Hr chase to true fans like us it was the game. But to say chicks and I know where u were going with your back hand comments is nieve. Everyone digs the longball,there's a reason why longball hitters get paid top dollar. Is there a lot more to the game then the long ball,yes but the Phillies sure thrive on it.
Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.
And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...
Sorry for my typing I meant to say that the chase brought casual fans back. But true fans like me u fixer cliffy hawks and jeags prob were back before. True fans appericate the whole game not induival things. Some might enjoy certain aspects more so the others. But to say that Howard isn't great is nuts. Someone please research who has the most hr and rbis in there 1st 4 seasons in mlb history. I'd bet he's right there,and that has to speak for its self.
very good comment - i sat thru travis lee, juan bell, ken howell, floyd youmans, etc. - i've seen bad players and i've seen horrible teams - so the negativty with this team and especially ryan howard now just blows me away.
Ok but that isn't relevant in what we were talkn about. Plus the phillies do win and I do care what peolpe make,but don't let it change my view about a player especially when the player is producing.
Ok but that isn't relevant in what we were talkn about. Plus the phillies do win and I do care what peolpe make,but don't let it change my view about a player especially when the player is producing.
How is it not relevant to what we're talking about, and what is it we're actually talking about?
very good comment - i sat thru travis lee, juan bell, ken howell, floyd youmans, etc. - i've seen bad players and i've seen horrible teams - so the negativty with this team and especially ryan howard now just blows me away.
1 - who's being overly negative? I have said I don't think howard is worth his contract. I don't think that means I'm burying the guy. Most analysts called his contract horrible the day it was signed.
2 - I'm with you with the past phils players. Growing up we were treated to some gems. We are experiencing the best era in phillies history. I get all that. My thing is that I want the era to last as long as possible. The only way this happens is if the organization continues to develop homegrown prospects (haven't had a homegrown pitcher come up and make an impact since hamels...maybe happ last year too I guess) and avoid bad long term contracts. pjhawks, I know you don't care about the contracts given out by the team, but you should. They are paramount to the future of this team.
Matt Gelb had a great article in sunday's inquirer related to the phils current and future payroll. I'll try to find the link
I would love for someone to explain to me their logic of "I concede that Utley is the best overall player on this team, but Howard is the most important." Wha? Huh? How in the fuck does that make any sense? Gimme 9 Utley's in my lineup over 9 Howard's every day of the week and twice on Sunday. This isn't even an argument.
when rollins won mvp in '07, was he the best player in the leaugue? ...no. the mvp is not the same as best overall player. the phils offense is built around howard knocking everyone home. he's the only one putting significant hr numbers this year. we've shown we can win for a prolong period of time every time utley goes to the dl. i don't believe we can win for a prolonged period of time without howard though...but we've never really seen it because howard rarely gets hurt, unlike utley. so it is an argument.
not for nothing but buster olney is a person some on here like to cite pretty regularly as being one of the top writers int he game. i would assume he agrees utley is the overall best player on the team, most do. yet when he made his list of the most irreplaceable players in the league howard made the cut. utley?....not on it (and, incidentally, only 3 first baseman were ranked higher than the R6--not 8):
http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/n ... id/5333128
It's a very, very short list, and few players in the majors in 2010 are as important to the contending teams for which they play as Pedroia is to the Red Sox. Here's how I'd rank the top 15, with Pedroia in there somewhere:
1. Albert Pujols, St. Louis Cardinals. Of course.
2. Adrian Gonzalez, San Diego Padres. Of course.
3. Ubaldo Jimenez, Colorado Rockies. Colorado is 14-1 in the games he has started and 25-34 in its other games.
4. Miguel Cabrera, Detroit Tigers. He is the foundation of the Tigers' lineup and has posted your basic .330 batting average/20 homers/63 RBIs performance so far.
5. Joe Mauer, Minnesota Twins. He is not hitting with the power he showed in 2009, but he is the Twins' leader and has posted a .383 on-base percentage.
6. Jose Reyes, New York Mets. When he started hitting, they started winning.
7. Martin Prado, Atlanta Braves. Some guys in the Braves' lineup have zigged and zagged because of injuries, but Prado has been their best player since June 2009.
8. Evan Longoria, Tampa Bay Rays. When he goes into any kind of offensive funk, so do the Rays.
9. Ryan Howard, Philadelphia Phillies. He has shown over and over that he is capable of hoisting that team on his broad shoulders for a month at a time.
10. Andre Ethier, Los Angeles Dodgers. Manny Ramirez gets the attention, but Ethier is the anchor of the lineup, especially in a year in which Matt Kemp has struggled.
11. Joey Votto, Cincinnati Reds. The bottom line is that if he ever got hurt or stopped producing, the Reds probably would fall out of contention.
12. Ryan Zimmerman, Washington Nationals. Stephen Strasburg will be the Nats' biggest box-office draw for years to come, but Zimmerman is their barometer right now.
13. Josh Hamilton, Texas Rangers. When he started clubbing the ball, the Rangers separated themselves from the rest of the AL West.
14. Josh Johnson, Florida Marlins. Without him, they wouldn't even be in the conversation in the NL East.
By the way: There are no New York Yankees on this list largely because of the depth of their roster. Robinson Cano is a strong MVP candidate, but the rotation is so strong and the supporting cast is good enough that they continue winning in Cano's absence. On the other hand, if Jimenez went down for any reason, the Rockies probably would be finished.
Pedroia's injury truly hurts the Red Sox, writes Dan Shaughnessy. Pedroia had a hunch he was going to get bad news, writes Scott Lauber. In the aftermath of that news, the Red Sox lost Clay Buchholz to a knee injury, although it does not appear to be serious.
i know, i know, now buster olney is an idiot right? :roll:
some of you guys need to get off that high horse every once in a while
GO. PHILS.
2 - You say the phils offense is built around howard knocking everyone home. The most important thing about any offense is having guys on base to knock home. That's why OBP and OPS are so important.
howard leads the league in rbi's this year despite EVERYONE in front of him being on the dl and having down years.
funny how i knew you'd go after olney's credibility too. you're too predictable dude!
I like Olney. His book "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty" is one of the best Yankees books I have read, in my opinion. That list is not that spot on though. I mean, Josh Hamilton at 13, really? He is only the 13th most valuable player to his team. I would put him as number 1, 2 or 3.
I like Olney. His book "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty" is one of the best Yankees books I have read, in my opinion. That list is not that spot on though. I mean, Josh Hamilton at 13, really? He is only the 13th most valuable player to his team. I would put him as number 1, 2 or 3.
the list is debatable....as is who is more valuable to the phils---howard or utley. that's my point. you and some others were making it seem like its not even up for debate. it, obviously, is.
Howard doesn't think he'll be out long term
Ryan Howard is back in Philadelphia, as we told you in today's Daily News, to have his injured left ankle examined.
He remains optimistic that he won't need to be put on the disabled list, although he was on crutches. Howard is scheduled for an MRI exam.
"I'm not worried that it’s long term," Howard told NBC10's John Clark at the airport before visiting team physician Dr. Michael Ciccotti. "It's been 2 days and I’ve ben able to put pressure on it and just using the crutches for precautionary measures. Hopefully, maybe it's like 4, 7 days. Maybe 10 days."
Howard was hurt when he slid back into second base in the first inning Sunday against the Washington Nationals.
"It’s part of the game," Howard said. "It's a little frustrating. Right now the focus is just getting better and see what happens ... It feels alright. I can put pressure on it … just need to see how long it takes."
"There’s pain, there’s swelling. Once we get all the swelling out, we'll see where it goes from there and what the MRI says and what ligaments are involved."
A stint on the DL would be another setback for a Phillies team that has suffered through major injuries throughout the season.
"On the positive side of things, we’re still only 2.5 games back," Howard said. "That’s the kind of the funny, interesting thing. We’ve had these setbacks and guys getting hurt. We’re still only 2.5 back with only 2 months to play. I’m trying to stay positive."
And on another note, I was never a fan of Josh Hamilton until this year. Sounds awful but I was ready for him to be a flash in the pan. But after he fell off the wagon for a night, then came back and is doing what he is doing, which is being the best player in baseball this year I have a whole lot of respect for this guy. I think it was a case of ESPN beating his story into the ground but now that they have moved on, I am all for him.
And on another note, I was never a fan of Josh Hamilton until this year. Sounds awful but I was ready for him to be a flash in the pan. But after he fell off the wagon for a night, then came back and is doing what he is doing, which is being the best player in baseball this year I have a whole lot of respect for this guy. I think it was a case of ESPN beating his story into the ground but now that they have moved on, I am all for him.
yeah he's great....didn't he fall off the wagon or something last year? i vaguely remember some kind of story about that
I like Olney. His book "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty" is one of the best Yankees books I have read, in my opinion. That list is not that spot on though. I mean, Josh Hamilton at 13, really? He is only the 13th most valuable player to his team. I would put him as number 1, 2 or 3.
the list is debatable....as is who is more valuable to the phils---howard or utley. that's my point. you and some others were making it seem like its not even up for debate. it, obviously, is.
I get what you are saying, I just think Utley is one of the top few players in baseball and I obviously don't think too highly of Howard. I obviously don't see him play everyday and probably look at it a little different since I am not a Phillies fan, I just don't think they are even in the same league. Utley is on a short list behind Pujols, Howard is not close to that in my opinion.
Comments
There is? Because apparently with you there isn't. You should really take your own advice. Because, again for some reason, just because I'm not all over Howard's scrote I am deemed not a fan of his apparently.
funny thing is that this is exactly what I'm saying about howard. he isn't great and he doesn't suck.
not sure where i said you weren't fan - can you please show me where i singled you out by name?
I understand why Amaro paid him so much though. A lot of clubs, and I'm sure the Phillies are one of them, employ economists in-house - or consultants externally - to value what the worth of a player is from a sales standpoint or, by another means, a non-baseball stance. And the simplest way to break this down = CHICKS DIG THE LONG BALL.
see i was going to stop then you make a comment like this -how can one of the top offensive players in franchise history not be great? are you kidding me? can you name more than 5 position players in Phillies history better than Ryan Howard? yet he is not great - how is that possible? so a franchise that has been around for over 100 years hasn't had more than 3-5 great offensive players? uggh you wonder why i want to put my hand through the wall when i read things like this. seriously dude come on please list me the position players in franchise history that are better than Ryan Howard.
he's definitely top 5 in franchise history. that doesn't mean shit though. this team's history is horrendous
Imagine if they never traded Sandberg.
You could probably make an argument that utley, rollins, and howard are all top 5 offensive players in franchise history. There isn't much competition
Rollins has a chance at becoming the first shortstop in history to hit 200 homers, 100 triples, 500 doubles and steal 500 bases.
We've never been so spoiled.
Yep, and it's the reason they go into droughts for weeks at a time.
And not trying to be a dick, but I'm not getting the full scope of what you're writing here because of the run-on sentences. True fans, like us, it was the game? Meaning true fans appreciate the homer more than anything? I'm missing something here...
Sorry for my typing I meant to say that the chase brought casual fans back. But true fans like me u fixer cliffy hawks and jeags prob were back before. True fans appericate the whole game not induival things. Some might enjoy certain aspects more so the others. But to say that Howard isn't great is nuts. Someone please research who has the most hr and rbis in there 1st 4 seasons in mlb history. I'd bet he's right there,and that has to speak for its self.
I've always wanted to see Howard be locked up and stamp his legacy as a Phillie. Same with Utley, Rollins, Hamels, Brown to-be. But I'm not at the risk of trading the integrity of what this organization has built over the last 5-8 years for sentimentality. Fans shouldn't have to worry about how much teams pay their players, but they do smack their heads against their wall when they're losing 80-90 games a year. So it should be every fan's right to care about how much players make because I don't want to see the team suffer as a whole just so I can see Ryan break A-Rod's home run record as a Phillie.
very good comment - i sat thru travis lee, juan bell, ken howell, floyd youmans, etc. - i've seen bad players and i've seen horrible teams - so the negativty with this team and especially ryan howard now just blows me away.
How is it not relevant to what we're talking about, and what is it we're actually talking about?
1 - who's being overly negative? I have said I don't think howard is worth his contract. I don't think that means I'm burying the guy. Most analysts called his contract horrible the day it was signed.
2 - I'm with you with the past phils players. Growing up we were treated to some gems. We are experiencing the best era in phillies history. I get all that. My thing is that I want the era to last as long as possible. The only way this happens is if the organization continues to develop homegrown prospects (haven't had a homegrown pitcher come up and make an impact since hamels...maybe happ last year too I guess) and avoid bad long term contracts. pjhawks, I know you don't care about the contracts given out by the team, but you should. They are paramount to the future of this team.
Matt Gelb had a great article in sunday's inquirer related to the phils current and future payroll. I'll try to find the link
Ya see baseball-reference has their own contract/salary section now? They do a good job of breaking down the projected Phils' payroll.
That is a good article. This is what I said all along about the Oswalt trade
"It puts us in a position to not be real flexible," Amaro said of adding Oswalt's contract
Matt Gelb is a solid writer, was on the Yankees beat last year.
howard leads the league in rbi's this year despite EVERYONE in front of him being on the dl and having down years.
funny how i knew you'd go after olney's credibility too. you're too predictable dude!
the list is debatable....as is who is more valuable to the phils---howard or utley. that's my point. you and some others were making it seem like its not even up for debate. it, obviously, is.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... _term.html
Howard doesn't think he'll be out long term
Ryan Howard is back in Philadelphia, as we told you in today's Daily News, to have his injured left ankle examined.
He remains optimistic that he won't need to be put on the disabled list, although he was on crutches. Howard is scheduled for an MRI exam.
"I'm not worried that it’s long term," Howard told NBC10's John Clark at the airport before visiting team physician Dr. Michael Ciccotti. "It's been 2 days and I’ve ben able to put pressure on it and just using the crutches for precautionary measures. Hopefully, maybe it's like 4, 7 days. Maybe 10 days."
Howard was hurt when he slid back into second base in the first inning Sunday against the Washington Nationals.
"It’s part of the game," Howard said. "It's a little frustrating. Right now the focus is just getting better and see what happens ... It feels alright. I can put pressure on it … just need to see how long it takes."
"There’s pain, there’s swelling. Once we get all the swelling out, we'll see where it goes from there and what the MRI says and what ligaments are involved."
A stint on the DL would be another setback for a Phillies team that has suffered through major injuries throughout the season.
"On the positive side of things, we’re still only 2.5 games back," Howard said. "That’s the kind of the funny, interesting thing. We’ve had these setbacks and guys getting hurt. We’re still only 2.5 back with only 2 months to play. I’m trying to stay positive."
Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phil ... z0vZGM92N5
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yeah he's great....didn't he fall off the wagon or something last year? i vaguely remember some kind of story about that
did he switch places with andy martino? I saw martino is writing for the Times (I believe)
huge difference between an analyst and a reporter. just read paul hagen or jayson stark. awful
RBI are meaningless
I get what you are saying, I just think Utley is one of the top few players in baseball and I obviously don't think too highly of Howard. I obviously don't see him play everyday and probably look at it a little different since I am not a Phillies fan, I just don't think they are even in the same league. Utley is on a short list behind Pujols, Howard is not close to that in my opinion.