***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

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  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,527
    I'm not saying Rolen will get into the HOF, because he won't, but you go into the HOF with the team you played the most with. And I think Rolen played exactly the same amount of time with the Phils and Cardinals - if not more with St. Louis. So if for some bizarre reason it happened, he'd go in as a Cardinal. Rolen was in Philly from '97 till mid-'02, and he was in St. Louis from mid-'02 till '07 correct? Then played '08 into '09 with TO, then got traded in '09 to Cincinnati. Yeah, I think that's about right.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,594
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    I'm not saying Rolen will get into the HOF, because he won't, but you go into the HOF with the team you played the most with. And I think Rolen played exactly the same amount of time with the Phils and Cardinals - if not more with St. Louis. So if for some bizarre reason it happened, he'd go in as a Cardinal. Rolen was in Philly from '97 till mid-'02, and he was in St. Louis from mid-'02 till '07 correct? Then played '08 into '09 with TO, then got traded in '09 to Cincinnati. Yeah, I think that's about right.


    this is a mooooo point anyway.

    but can't the player choose which team he goes in with? or does the hall dictate what you said about the team you played for the most?
    www.myspace.com
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,527
    The Jeagler wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    I'm not saying Rolen will get into the HOF, because he won't, but you go into the HOF with the team you played the most with. And I think Rolen played exactly the same amount of time with the Phils and Cardinals - if not more with St. Louis. So if for some bizarre reason it happened, he'd go in as a Cardinal. Rolen was in Philly from '97 till mid-'02, and he was in St. Louis from mid-'02 till '07 correct? Then played '08 into '09 with TO, then got traded in '09 to Cincinnati. Yeah, I think that's about right.


    this is a mooooo point anyway.

    but can't the player choose which team he goes in with? or does the hall dictate what you said about the team you played for the most?

    Yeah, I believe the Hall dictates it - they try to keep some sort of order. That, or they used to, because I have a feeling Reggie Jackson and Gary Carter went in as a Yankee and Met, and both played a lot less time with each of those teams. I could be wrong though. As you said, it's all moot anyway. But, hey, I've got nothing better to do right now.
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,025
    The Jeagler wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    I'm not saying Rolen will get into the HOF, because he won't, but you go into the HOF with the team you played the most with. And I think Rolen played exactly the same amount of time with the Phils and Cardinals - if not more with St. Louis. So if for some bizarre reason it happened, he'd go in as a Cardinal. Rolen was in Philly from '97 till mid-'02, and he was in St. Louis from mid-'02 till '07 correct? Then played '08 into '09 with TO, then got traded in '09 to Cincinnati. Yeah, I think that's about right.


    this is a mooooo point anyway.

    but can't the player choose which team he goes in with? or does the hall dictate what you said about the team you played for the most?

    They used to be able to but after a number of teams gave aging players big contracts to go in with them, I believe the decision now is up to the hall. I think the Wade Boggs contract with the Rays had a lot to do with this. I know there were others as well.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    edited June 2010
    metsfan wrote:
    why do you hate the mets for. you really buy into that whole mets/phils rivalry that the great espn and fox sports and jroll and beltran started years ago. wow man i thought better of you. i mean it's a nice rivalry and all but it's more like hating your cousin rivalry whereas yanks/mets is hating your brother. i mean last year's world series i was rooting for the phils just cause i didn't wanna see that 16-25 douchebag yanks fanbase throw at me the lame line of "oh we've won 27 world series to your 2" you have no idea how much that line pisses me off or to hear it in general from yankees fans.

    sorry for the rambling :oops:


    btw- jason bay has a total of 6 homers this season. its amazing what 66 milllion dollars can get you :roll:.[/quote]

    I hate the mets for a number of reasons...

    1 - they are in the NL east
    2 - they spend more money than most teams in baseball (though the phils have gained ground recently)
    3 - their fans fill CBP and are obnoxious
    4 - jose reyes
    5 - k-rod
    6 - they're from ny
    7 - the gay ole, ole, ole chant
    8 - the clap your hands chant
    9 - the apple after a hr
    10 - jose reyes
    11 - jose reyes

    I could keep going...I despise the mets. the yanks aren't as bad to me because the phils hardly ever play them
    Post edited by The Fixer on
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    The Jeagler wrote:
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    I'm not saying Rolen will get into the HOF, because he won't, but you go into the HOF with the team you played the most with. And I think Rolen played exactly the same amount of time with the Phils and Cardinals - if not more with St. Louis. So if for some bizarre reason it happened, he'd go in as a Cardinal. Rolen was in Philly from '97 till mid-'02, and he was in St. Louis from mid-'02 till '07 correct? Then played '08 into '09 with TO, then got traded in '09 to Cincinnati. Yeah, I think that's about right.


    this is a mooooo point anyway.

    but can't the player choose which team he goes in with? or does the hall dictate what you said about the team you played for the most?

    Yeah, I believe the Hall dictates it - they try to keep some sort of order. That, or they used to, because I have a feeling Reggie Jackson and Gary Carter went in as a Yankee and Met, and both played a lot less time with each of those teams. I could be wrong though. As you said, it's all moot anyway. But, hey, I've got nothing better to do right now.

    HOF chooses. I don't have any idea how they do so. I think fred mcgriff or wade boggs went in as a devil ray

    Rolen has no shot of getting in anyway
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    jimed14 wrote:
    The only way Scott Rolen is getting into the Hall of Fame is if he buys a ticket.

    End that discussion.

    Well if you look at his numbers, and he should retire before A Rod's numbers at 3b overtake his and the big if he stays healthy for this year and 2 more:

    He'll have more homers than any 3rd basemen except for Schmidt and Eddie Matthews
    He'll have more doubles than any 3rd basemen in history
    He'll have more hits than 3rd basemen except for Brooks Robinson and Boggs (Brett played a third of his career at 1st base and only had 2044 hits at 3rd)
    He'll have more rbis than any 3rd basemen other than Schmidt

    He's a lot closer to the hall than people think.

    (Edit I wrote in history but in reality I only looked at players since 1960 on)
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    I can't believe I'm debating the merits of Scott Rolen's Hall of Fame candidacy, but .....

    First, look at the era Rolen played in ... heavily offensive weighted.

    I'm a firm believer in you compare offensive stats against the guys of your era, in that sense ... Rolen isn't anything special. He's never won an MVP, don't even think he's come close.

    He's got only 300 HRs. 300. C'mon. He's only hit 30 home runs 3 times in his career. He's had over 100 RBIs only 5 times in his career. And again, look at the era he's playing in.

    More doubles than any 3rd baseman in history? If you're digging that deep in the barrel .........

    He's been a good player, a very good player when healthy, but there is no way Scott Rolen makes the Hall of Fame, and it's not close.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    jimed14 wrote:
    I can't believe I'm debating the merits of Scott Rolen's Hall of Fame candidacy, but .....

    First, look at the era Rolen played in ... heavily offensive weighted.

    I'm a firm believer in you compare offensive stats against the guys of your era, in that sense ... Rolen isn't anything special. He's never won an MVP, don't even think he's come close.

    He's got only 300 HRs. 300. C'mon. He's only hit 30 home runs 3 times in his career. He's had over 100 RBIs only 5 times in his career. And again, look at the era he's playing in.

    More doubles than any 3rd baseman in history? If you're digging that deep in the barrel .........

    He's been a good player, a very good player when healthy, but there is no way Scott Rolen makes the Hall of Fame, and it's not close.

    I agree. Though MVP voting is a horrendous barometer when discussing a player's HOF candidacy. I believe jason bartlett was in the top ten in the AL MVP voting last year. A lot of times these writers will vote for guys out of respect for giving them quotes/info during the year. It's ridiculous that most of these beat writers get to vote on MVP/HOF stuff.

    If you guys think rolen to the HOF is far fetched, you should read bill conlin's article today. He makes a case for jaime moyer going to the HOF. Of course he supports his stance mainly with pitcher wins, which are virtually meaningless when discussing a pitcher's worth. conlin needs to hang it up...he is awful
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,527
    The Fixer wrote:
    If you guys think rolen to the HOF is far fetched, you should read bill conlin's article today. He makes a case for jaime moyer going to the HOF. Of course he supports his stance mainly with pitcher wins, which are virtually meaningless when discussing a pitcher's worth. conlin needs to hang it up...he is awful
    [/quote]

    Duly noted, but I don't care what anyone says - if he for some reason does get 300 wins, he's in. I don't care about anything else. 300 wins = in. But, until that happens, he's not in.
  • jimed14
    jimed14 Posts: 9,488
    The Fixer wrote:
    I agree. Though MVP voting is a horrendous barometer when discussing a player's HOF candidacy. I believe jason bartlett was in the top ten in the AL MVP voting last year. A lot of times these writers will vote for guys out of respect for giving them quotes/info during the year. It's ridiculous that most of these beat writers get to vote on MVP/HOF stuff.

    WHile I agree the MVP voting can be sketchy .... I just saw that Baseball Reference actually has the numbers for MVP voting:

    Rolen
    2004 - 4th
    1998 - 20th
    2001 - 24th

    That's the best he's done. He isn't even in the top 20 National Leaguers who are his comtemporaries.

    Again ... it's not close.
    "You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91

    "I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    If you guys think rolen to the HOF is far fetched, you should read bill conlin's article today. He makes a case for jaime moyer going to the HOF. Of course he supports his stance mainly with pitcher wins, which are virtually meaningless when discussing a pitcher's worth. conlin needs to hang it up...he is awful

    Duly noted, but I don't care what anyone says - if he for some reason does get 300 wins, he's in. I don't care about anything else. 300 wins = in. But, until that happens, he's not in.[/quote]

    I hope you have the same policy when it comes to 3,000 hits because Renteria is only 33 and only about 770 hits away from 3,000. He could easily hang on as part time player and get to 3,000.

    As for Moyer, he'd have to not give up a run for 440 straight innings to tie the guy currently in the HOF with the highest ERA.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,025
    Solat13 wrote:

    As for Moyer, he'd have to not give up a run for 440 straight innings to tie the guy currently in the HOF with the highest ERA.

    Stat of the day. Well done.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Jearlpam0925 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    If you guys think rolen to the HOF is far fetched, you should read bill conlin's article today. He makes a case for jaime moyer going to the HOF. Of course he supports his stance mainly with pitcher wins, which are virtually meaningless when discussing a pitcher's worth. conlin needs to hang it up...he is awful

    Duly noted, but I don't care what anyone says - if he for some reason does get 300 wins, he's in. I don't care about anything else. 300 wins = in. But, until that happens, he's not in.[/quote]

    I gotta disagree there. his 300 wins would be as worthless as palmeiro's 500 homers (who also doesn't belong in the HOF).

    I think it's weak when guys get awarded for compiling stats just because they had longevity. Cal Ripken is one of the most overrated players in MLB history. his stats are decent and he was a good player...he played every game so his career numbers look more impressive than they really were.

    omar vizquel is still playing and compiling stats. He's not a HOFer, but he'll get a lot of support because he keeps adding to his career totals.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Cliffy6745 wrote:
    Solat13 wrote:

    As for Moyer, he'd have to not give up a run for 440 straight innings to tie the guy currently in the HOF with the highest ERA.

    Stat of the day. Well done.

    Ha, awesome.

    Big difference between a compiler and a HOF player
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    The Fixer wrote:

    omar vizquel is still playing and compiling stats. He's not a HOFer, but he'll get a lot of support because he keeps adding to his career totals.

    I think Vizquel gets in. 2 less GG's than Ozzie, almost 300 more hits than Ozzie, 50 more homers and about 140 more rbis than Ozzie in only 633 more at bats than Ozzie.
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Solat13 wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:

    omar vizquel is still playing and compiling stats. He's not a HOFer, but he'll get a lot of support because he keeps adding to his career totals.

    I think Vizquel gets in. 2 less GG's than Ozzie, almost 300 more hits than Ozzie, 50 more homers and about 140 more rbis than Ozzie in only 633 more at bats than Ozzie.

    different eras. vizquel was never a top 5 player at his position. he's not deserving. his offensive numbers are awful for playing in his career era
  • Phantom Pain
    Phantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    Just got the CSN News Alert

    Polanco and Utley to the DL
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,908
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Just got the CSN News Alert

    Polanco and Utley to the DL

    who the heck is going to play 2nd and 3rd? can't have Castro and Valdez both for 2 weeks. Dobbs coming back i guess?
  • Phantom Pain
    Phantom Pain Posts: 9,876
    pjhawks wrote:
    Phantom Pain wrote:
    Just got the CSN News Alert

    Polanco and Utley to the DL

    who the heck is going to play 2nd and 3rd? can't have Castro and Valdez both for 2 weeks. Dobbs coming back i guess?

    I dont know but this season is turning into a cluster

    The injuries are getting out of hand and the bench players are not picking up enough of the slack
    My drinking team has a hockey problem

    The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill



    A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
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