Who affects the lineup more? Howard alone changes the way a pitcher will pitch to at least 3 to 4 players am I correct? Utley who I already said is a better all around player maybe effects what the 2 hole hitter see's. In the lineup howard is missed more,in the field and on the bases its utley. I don't wanna see it cause I don't want howard hurt but I'd bet utleys production goes down a lot without the big man hitting behind him.
look at ibanez's numbers over the last month in the 3 hole as an example.
we need the big guy in there. bottom line.
Raul is a perfect example, hell I bet if u asked utley he'd tell you the same thing.
it is amazing that werth is hitting close to .300 and still leads the league in doubles. he's such a streaky hitter.
fixer--i dont know how you can definitively say losing utley hurts a lot more than losing howard. utley may well be the overall better player. but that big bopper in the middle of the lineup is huge for the way we play.
and you're dealing with a known and an unknown anyway. utley's been on the dl multiple times in his career and we've gotten along fine without him. howard hasn't been on the dl since the early part of 2007.
either way--i'm with you: LET'S GO METS!
utley does everything well, howard does one thing well. you can't compare the two
Utley:
Average .294
Homers - 29.2 per year (only including full seasons)
OBP - .380
Slugging .518
OPS .898
Howard:
Average .281
Homers - 49.5 per year (only including full seasons)
OBP - .373
Slugging - .578
OPS - .951
not sure how that computes to 'not even close' - if anyone is not close it is Howard over Utley at least offensively. since you love stats how are you defending your stance that Utley is way more valuable and/or better than Howard offensively based on these numbers?
it is amazing that werth is hitting close to .300 and still leads the league in doubles. he's such a streaky hitter.
fixer--i dont know how you can definitively say losing utley hurts a lot more than losing howard. utley may well be the overall better player. but that big bopper in the middle of the lineup is huge for the way we play.
and you're dealing with a known and an unknown anyway. utley's been on the dl multiple times in his career and we've gotten along fine without him. howard hasn't been on the dl since the early part of 2007.
either way--i'm with you: LET'S GO METS!
utley does everything well, howard does one thing well. you can't compare the two
Utley:
Average .294
Homers - 29.2 per year (only including full seasons)
OBP - .380
Slugging .518
OPS .898
Howard:
Average .281
Homers - 49.5 per year (only including full seasons)
OBP - .373
Slugging - .578
OPS - .951
not sure how that computes to 'not even close' - if anyone is not close it is Howard over Utley at least offensively. since you love stats how are you defending your stance that Utley is way more valuable and/or better than Howard offensively based on these numbers?
using career averages to evaluate a player is just plain stupid. one year (good or bad can really skew the numbers. look at the trendlines, they're much more telling.
you can take howard, I'll take utley every time. I can't argue this anymore. It's pointless
"The Fixer
using career averages to evaluate a player is just plain stupid. one year (good or bad can really skew the numbers. look at the trendlines, they're much more telling.
you can take howard, I'll take utley every time. I can't argue this anymore. It's pointless
if you don't want to use career stats then please give me a year-by-year review and tell me when if ever Chase has had a better season than Ryan Howard? please explain to me how a player who has NEVER had a season better than another is heads-above the other player or as you like to say 'not even close' - please defend this for me - show me a full season since Howard has been in the majors where Utley has been better than Howard. you can't - but you base your whole argument on some ridiculous fantasy league stat like WAR so you must be right.
I'm usually not on the stat geeks side, but I have to side with Fixer here. Utley is clearly the best all-around player on this team. He hits to all fields, has good power, runs the bases well, plays gold glove-caliber defense (don't start giving me shit about 2 bad throws in the playoffs, please) and sets a great example by always hustling. He also is the rightful 2009 World Series MVP (or Cliff Lee).
Howard has the capability of carrying the team for weeks at a time, but I think he also contributes heavily to some of their miserable offensive stretches. And Utley's defense is drastically superior, even at a harder position.
Phils just need to stay within 2 or 3 games, and when Chase comes back he's gonna be a beast and carry this team to NL East titile #4 (in a row).
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Utleys the man that's a given. Fixer if Howard was making 15 million a year instead of what he's making would u think higher of him? I think your dislike of howard is about a number right.
I'm usually not on the stat geeks side, but I have to side with Fixer here. Utley is clearly the best all-around player on this team. He hits to all fields, has good power, runs the bases well, plays gold glove-caliber defense (don't start giving me shit about 2 bad throws in the playoffs, please) and sets a great example by always hustling. He also is the rightful 2009 World Series MVP (or Cliff Lee).
Howard has the capability of carrying the team for weeks at a time, but I think he also contributes heavily to some of their miserable offensive stretches. And Utley's defense is drastically superior, even at a harder position.
Phils just need to stay within 2 or 3 games, and when Chase comes back he's gonna be a beast and carry this team to NL East titile #4 (in a row).
I agree with the fixer as well utley is a better all around player. But howard is the most valuable batter in that lineup,I'd say rollins is 2. Without howard the 3 and 5 hole hitters numbers will drop at a high rate imo. Like jeags said look at raul since he moved to the 3 hole howards a big reason he's gettn more fast balls to hit.
I'm usually not on the stat geeks side, but I have to side with Fixer here. Utley is clearly the best all-around player on this team. He hits to all fields, has good power, runs the bases well, plays gold glove-caliber defense (don't start giving me shit about 2 bad throws in the playoffs, please) and sets a great example by always hustling. He also is the rightful 2009 World Series MVP (or Cliff Lee).
Howard has the capability of carrying the team for weeks at a time, but I think he also contributes heavily to some of their miserable offensive stretches. And Utley's defense is drastically superior, even at a harder position.
Phils just need to stay within 2 or 3 games, and when Chase comes back he's gonna be a beast and carry this team to NL East titile #4 (in a row).
I agree with the fixer as well utley is a better all around player. But howard is the most valuable batter in that lineup,I'd say rollins is 2. Without howard the 3 and 5 hole hitters numbers will drop at a high rate imo. Like jeags said look at raul since he moved to the 3 hole howards a big reason he's gettn more fast balls to hit.
wouldn't the most valuable be the best? i don't understand that logic. being completely dominating at one or two aspects has to count for something over being good at everything. no disrespct to Chase but for all the talk about Chase at some point he needs to be dominating during the regular season - and he hasn't been that in about 3 years (probably because of the injuries but still).
I'm usually not on the stat geeks side, but I have to side with Fixer here. Utley is clearly the best all-around player on this team. He hits to all fields, has good power, runs the bases well, plays gold glove-caliber defense (don't start giving me shit about 2 bad throws in the playoffs, please) and sets a great example by always hustling. He also is the rightful 2009 World Series MVP (or Cliff Lee).
Howard has the capability of carrying the team for weeks at a time, but I think he also contributes heavily to some of their miserable offensive stretches. And Utley's defense is drastically superior, even at a harder position.
Phils just need to stay within 2 or 3 games, and when Chase comes back he's gonna be a beast and carry this team to NL East titile #4 (in a row).
I agree with the fixer as well utley is a better all around player. But howard is the most valuable batter in that lineup,I'd say rollins is 2. Without howard the 3 and 5 hole hitters numbers will drop at a high rate imo. Like jeags said look at raul since he moved to the 3 hole howards a big reason he's gettn more fast balls to hit.
wouldn't the most valuable be the best? i don't understand that logic. being completely dominating at one or two aspects has to count for something over being good at everything. no disrespct to Chase but for all the talk about Chase at some point he needs to be dominating during the regular season - and he hasn't been that in about 3 years (probably because of the injuries but still).
no.
utley's a better all around player than howard. come on dude. you know that. its no slight to howard.
but at the same time i think this lineup needs the big slugger in the middle of the lineup a little more than what chase brings you offensively. so howard's probably more valuable.
utley's a better all around player than howard. come on dude. you know that. its no slight to howard.
but at the same time i think this lineup needs the big slugger in the middle of the lineup a little more than what chase brings you offensively. so howard's probably more valuable.
Utley is better at more things but Howard is more dominant at what he does well. much much harder to find a replacement for what howard does than what Utley does in my opinion. it's all relative though, they both are great players and the best we have ever had at their positions and the main cogs in the greatest era in Phillies history so, unlike some, I really don't have much complaints with either.
Really the only thing that keeps Utley from being the perfect player is that he just plays so damn hard; thus he is injury prone, like now.
I hope Howard is using his time off to watch the Tom Emanski instructional video on sliding.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I'm usually not on the stat geeks side, but I have to side with Fixer here. Utley is clearly the best all-around player on this team. He hits to all fields, has good power, runs the bases well, plays gold glove-caliber defense (don't start giving me shit about 2 bad throws in the playoffs, please) and sets a great example by always hustling. He also is the rightful 2009 World Series MVP (or Cliff Lee).
Howard has the capability of carrying the team for weeks at a time, but I think he also contributes heavily to some of their miserable offensive stretches. And Utley's defense is drastically superior, even at a harder position.
Phils just need to stay within 2 or 3 games, and when Chase comes back he's gonna be a beast and carry this team to NL East titile #4 (in a row).
Johnny welcome to the Club of Common Sense. Nice to have you on our side
"The Fixer
using career averages to evaluate a player is just plain stupid. one year (good or bad can really skew the numbers. look at the trendlines, they're much more telling.
you can take howard, I'll take utley every time. I can't argue this anymore. It's pointless
if you don't want to use career stats then please give me a year-by-year review and tell me when if ever Chase has had a better season than Ryan Howard? please explain to me how a player who has NEVER had a season better than another is heads-above the other player or as you like to say 'not even close' - please defend this for me - show me a full season since Howard has been in the majors where Utley has been better than Howard. you can't - but you base your whole argument on some ridiculous fantasy league stat like WAR so you must be right.
Utleys the man that's a given. Fixer if Howard was making 15 million a year instead of what he's making would u think higher of him? I think your dislike of howard is about a number right.
I wouldn't think any more or less of him. he is what he is. a guy that helps his team by doing one thing well. 15 million is much more in line with what his worth is.
Like I've said a billion times, I don't hate howard, but I don't think he is worth anywhere near what he is paid. I will always hope he does well as long as he's wearing the phils cheesedick uniforms
I'm usually not on the stat geeks side, but I have to side with Fixer here. Utley is clearly the best all-around player on this team. He hits to all fields, has good power, runs the bases well, plays gold glove-caliber defense (don't start giving me shit about 2 bad throws in the playoffs, please) and sets a great example by always hustling. He also is the rightful 2009 World Series MVP (or Cliff Lee).
Howard has the capability of carrying the team for weeks at a time, but I think he also contributes heavily to some of their miserable offensive stretches. And Utley's defense is drastically superior, even at a harder position.
Phils just need to stay within 2 or 3 games, and when Chase comes back he's gonna be a beast and carry this team to NL East titile #4 (in a row).
I agree with the fixer as well utley is a better all around player. But howard is the most valuable batter in that lineup,I'd say rollins is 2. Without howard the 3 and 5 hole hitters numbers will drop at a high rate imo. Like jeags said look at raul since he moved to the 3 hole howards a big reason he's gettn more fast balls to hit.
wouldn't the most valuable be the best? i don't understand that logic. being completely dominating at one or two aspects has to count for something over being good at everything. no disrespct to Chase but for all the talk about Chase at some point he needs to be dominating during the regular season - and he hasn't been that in about 3 years (probably because of the injuries but still).
aren't you the same guy that said halladay hadn't been great this year?
utley's a better all around player than howard. come on dude. you know that. its no slight to howard.
but at the same time i think this lineup needs the big slugger in the middle of the lineup a little more than what chase brings you offensively. so howard's probably more valuable.
Utley is better at more things but Howard is more dominant at what he does well. much much harder to find a replacement for what howard does than what Utley does in my opinion. .
you're kidding right? there are 7 or 8 first basemen in MLB today that are better than howard. there are no second basemen in MLB today that are better than utley.
People who love Pearl Jam AND the Phillies?? You are my people. I can't believe I am just now finding this thread.
welcome and feel free to let us know which camp you are in - the sabermaticians fantasy-baseball stat-like geeks or the free-thinking watch-the-games realist fans.
Here we go...
Is Ryan Howard having a good year because he leads the league in RBI's and is 2nd in hits?
Or does he suck because his VORP is worse than 9 other first basemen? (or something like that - someone will correct me soon).
Um, yeeeaaaahhh. Clearly, I am of the "I'm not on here nearly enough to keep up with all these posts" camp. Definitely not a stat geek, so I guess I'm a watch-the-games person. I live in DC and went to all 3 games this last weekend. Friday was pretty sad and I seriously wanted to murder Greg Dobbs and/or kidnap him and tattoo "FUNDAMENTALS" on his forehead, backwards, so he can read it in the mirror. Saturday was a great game to watch, until of course Lidge came in and ruined everything, as we knew he would do as soon as we saw him walk onto the field and saw where the Nats were in their linuep. It was especially disturbing because we had seats 3 rows behind home plate, so the walk-off celebration was a bit too up-close and personal. On Sunday, the Phillies decided to play baseball, and it was fantastic. Loved Oswalt coming in to bunt, and the aggressiveness they were showing throughout the game. Pretty happy with Gload and Ransom in the absence of our starters. It was awful watching Howard get dinged and then injured in the first inning. He was PISSED.
After seeing what happened over the weekend, and I admit that it may be too soon to tell, they should have beefed up their bullpen rather than going after another starter. But, we'll see how that all works out.
Why all the hostility toward Werth? Maybe I'm biased because I want to make sweet love to him down by the fire, but he's been productive and always plays hard. Would someone 'splain?
Vegas 12/1/93 & 7/11/98 -- SLC 11/2/95 -- San Diego 10/25/00 & 6/5/03 -- DC 5/30/06 & 6/22/08 -- SF 8/28/09 -- Philly 10/31/09, 10/21/13 & 10/22/13 -- Bristow 5/13/10 -- MSG 5/20/10 -- ATL 9/22/12 -- Baltimore 10/27/13 -- LA 11/24/13 -- Leeds 7/8/14 -- Denver 10/22/14
utley's a better all around player than howard. come on dude. you know that. its no slight to howard.
but at the same time i think this lineup needs the big slugger in the middle of the lineup a little more than what chase brings you offensively. so howard's probably more valuable.
Utley is better at more things but Howard is more dominant at what he does well. much much harder to find a replacement for what howard does than what Utley does in my opinion. .
you're kidding right? there are 7 or 8 first basemen in MLB today that are better than howard. there are no second basemen in MLB today that are better than utley.
come on man
so Utley is better than Howard because there is much less competition at 2nd base than 1st base - yeah that makes a lot of sense. again i am just saying that what Howard does is much harder to replace in this lineup period.
WAR - no idea if that is used in fantasy leagues or not - just know its a ridiculous stat made up by some math geeks that has no relevance to actual play on the field. just because a sabermatician puts a formula together doesn't make it relevant guys - please stop with the WAR statistic.
exactly my point, no? in 99.99% of fantasy leagues the stat is irrelevant
the problem with any and all fantasy leagues is it has given rise to a nation of people who think they know sports because they can read stats and can spew stats however meaningful or meaningless they may be. some guys are just better players than their stats indicate (see Jimmy Rollins) and some players are much worse than their stats indicate (see Bobby Abreu). Mathematicians can't put a value on intangibles.
Utley is better at more things but Howard is more dominant at what he does well. much much harder to find a replacement for what howard does than what Utley does in my opinion. .
you're kidding right? there are 7 or 8 first basemen in MLB today that are better than howard. there are no second basemen in MLB today that are better than utley.
come on man
so Utley is better than Howard because there is much less competition at 2nd base than 1st base - yeah that makes a lot of sense. again i am just saying that what Howard does is much harder to replace in this lineup period.
WAR - no idea if that is used in fantasy leagues or not - just know its a ridiculous stat made up by some math geeks that has no relevance to actual play on the field. just because a sabermatician puts a formula together doesn't make it relevant guys - please stop with the WAR statistic.
exactly my point, no? in 99.99% of fantasy leagues the stat is irrelevant[/quote]
the problem with any and all fantasy leagues is it has given rise to a nation of people who think they know sports because they can read stats and can spew stats however meaningful or meaningless they may be. some guys are just better players than their stats indicate (see Jimmy Rollins) and some players are much worse than their stats indicate (see Bobby Abreu). Mathematicians can't put a value on intangibles.[/quote]
so Utley is better than Howard because there is much less competition at 2nd base than 1st base - yeah that makes a lot of sense. again i am just saying that what Howard does is much harder to replace in this lineup period.
Give up some people just don't understand what they see. If those stats make them happy them so be it. Like the jeags said bottom line is wins. They believe in there logic we believe in the facts. But i do disagree with you saying that Howard is more valuable then Utley. Howard is the best at hitting hr's and rbi's and that is 2 things not one,but Utley is and all around stud.
Comments
career stats taken off of MLB.com:
Utley:
Average .294
Homers - 29.2 per year (only including full seasons)
OBP - .380
Slugging .518
OPS .898
Howard:
Average .281
Homers - 49.5 per year (only including full seasons)
OBP - .373
Slugging - .578
OPS - .951
not sure how that computes to 'not even close' - if anyone is not close it is Howard over Utley at least offensively. since you love stats how are you defending your stance that Utley is way more valuable and/or better than Howard offensively based on these numbers?
using career averages to evaluate a player is just plain stupid. one year (good or bad can really skew the numbers. look at the trendlines, they're much more telling.
you can take howard, I'll take utley every time. I can't argue this anymore. It's pointless
if you don't want to use career stats then please give me a year-by-year review and tell me when if ever Chase has had a better season than Ryan Howard? please explain to me how a player who has NEVER had a season better than another is heads-above the other player or as you like to say 'not even close' - please defend this for me - show me a full season since Howard has been in the majors where Utley has been better than Howard. you can't - but you base your whole argument on some ridiculous fantasy league stat like WAR so you must be right.
Howard has the capability of carrying the team for weeks at a time, but I think he also contributes heavily to some of their miserable offensive stretches. And Utley's defense is drastically superior, even at a harder position.
Phils just need to stay within 2 or 3 games, and when Chase comes back he's gonna be a beast and carry this team to NL East titile #4 (in a row).
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
I agree with the fixer as well utley is a better all around player. But howard is the most valuable batter in that lineup,I'd say rollins is 2. Without howard the 3 and 5 hole hitters numbers will drop at a high rate imo. Like jeags said look at raul since he moved to the 3 hole howards a big reason he's gettn more fast balls to hit.
wouldn't the most valuable be the best? i don't understand that logic. being completely dominating at one or two aspects has to count for something over being good at everything. no disrespct to Chase but for all the talk about Chase at some point he needs to be dominating during the regular season - and he hasn't been that in about 3 years (probably because of the injuries but still).
no.
utley's a better all around player than howard. come on dude. you know that. its no slight to howard.
but at the same time i think this lineup needs the big slugger in the middle of the lineup a little more than what chase brings you offensively. so howard's probably more valuable.
Utley is better at more things but Howard is more dominant at what he does well. much much harder to find a replacement for what howard does than what Utley does in my opinion. it's all relative though, they both are great players and the best we have ever had at their positions and the main cogs in the greatest era in Phillies history so, unlike some, I really don't have much complaints with either.
I hope Howard is using his time off to watch the Tom Emanski instructional video on sliding.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
TO
BACK
TO
BACK
well played john.
Johnny welcome to the Club of Common Sense. Nice to have you on our side
WAR is a fantasy league stat now. wow...just wow
I wouldn't think any more or less of him. he is what he is. a guy that helps his team by doing one thing well. 15 million is much more in line with what his worth is.
Like I've said a billion times, I don't hate howard, but I don't think he is worth anywhere near what he is paid. I will always hope he does well as long as he's wearing the phils cheesedick uniforms
aren't you the same guy that said halladay hadn't been great this year?
you're kidding right? there are 7 or 8 first basemen in MLB today that are better than howard. there are no second basemen in MLB today that are better than utley.
come on man
Um, yeeeaaaahhh. Clearly, I am of the "I'm not on here nearly enough to keep up with all these posts" camp. Definitely not a stat geek, so I guess I'm a watch-the-games person. I live in DC and went to all 3 games this last weekend. Friday was pretty sad and I seriously wanted to murder Greg Dobbs and/or kidnap him and tattoo "FUNDAMENTALS" on his forehead, backwards, so he can read it in the mirror. Saturday was a great game to watch, until of course Lidge came in and ruined everything, as we knew he would do as soon as we saw him walk onto the field and saw where the Nats were in their linuep. It was especially disturbing because we had seats 3 rows behind home plate, so the walk-off celebration was a bit too up-close and personal. On Sunday, the Phillies decided to play baseball, and it was fantastic. Loved Oswalt coming in to bunt, and the aggressiveness they were showing throughout the game. Pretty happy with Gload and Ransom in the absence of our starters. It was awful watching Howard get dinged and then injured in the first inning. He was PISSED.
After seeing what happened over the weekend, and I admit that it may be too soon to tell, they should have beefed up their bullpen rather than going after another starter. But, we'll see how that all works out.
Why all the hostility toward Werth? Maybe I'm biased because I want to make sweet love to him down by the fire, but he's been productive and always plays hard. Would someone 'splain?
EVx5
how great would it be to start tomorrow just 2 out?
LET'S GO MUTS!
exactly my point, no? in 99.99% of fantasy leagues the stat is irrelevant
really? i would never have guessed that.
fantasy is only for football with this guy.
so Utley is better than Howard because there is much less competition at 2nd base than 1st base - yeah that makes a lot of sense. again i am just saying that what Howard does is much harder to replace in this lineup period.
WAR - no idea if that is used in fantasy leagues or not - just know its a ridiculous stat made up by some math geeks that has no relevance to actual play on the field. just because a sabermatician puts a formula together doesn't make it relevant guys - please stop with the WAR statistic.
the problem with any and all fantasy leagues is it has given rise to a nation of people who think they know sports because they can read stats and can spew stats however meaningful or meaningless they may be. some guys are just better players than their stats indicate (see Jimmy Rollins) and some players are much worse than their stats indicate (see Bobby Abreu). Mathematicians can't put a value on intangibles.
just look at the win/loss record.
BANG. DONE.
let's move on.
the problem with any and all fantasy leagues is it has given rise to a nation of people who think they know sports because they can read stats and can spew stats however meaningful or meaningless they may be. some guys are just better players than their stats indicate (see Jimmy Rollins) and some players are much worse than their stats indicate (see Bobby Abreu). Mathematicians can't put a value on intangibles.[/quote]
Give up some people just don't understand what they see. If those stats make them happy them so be it. Like the jeags said bottom line is wins. They believe in there logic we believe in the facts. But i do disagree with you saying that Howard is more valuable then Utley. Howard is the best at hitting hr's and rbi's and that is 2 things not one,but Utley is and all around stud.