***The Official Philadelphia Phillies 2012 Thread***

Corduroyboy

I should have played more baseball as a kid. This contract is insane, the most insane I think I've ever seen. As a Phillies fan, I think the managers are crazy. That's a lot of scratch to pay 1 guy to keep him in town.

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

this guy...set to be on point

The Jeagler wrote:

well they started off 6-8 last year against a pretty weak schedule. they did pick things up at the end of the month though.

i dont think this first month is as much of a cake walk as everyone else does especially with the injuries, bullpen questions, ibanez's struggles, and our early season history. lotta road games. a west coast swing against giants. you got the braves in atlanta (where we struggled last year). marlins will be at the bank for a 3 game set--i think they're gonna be decent this year too. should be interesting. i'm thinking 12-10 or 13-9....monday cannot come soon enough though.

injuries are the only reason

injuries plus everything else i mentioned...

The Juggler

sabermetrics are for geeks.

Cliffy6745

The Jeagler wrote:

sabermetrics are for geeks.

Not true

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

sabermetrics are for geeks.

Not true

haha...i am only half kidding.

not a huge stat guy.

The Fixer

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

sabermetrics are for geeks.

Not true

haha...i am only half kidding.

not a huge stat guy.

you are, just with the wrong stats (like RBI). your defense of pedro feliz proved you're not a huge stat guy

read moneyball. it's a great starting point for those interested in how players are evaluated thru statistics.

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

you are, just with the wrong stats (like RBI). your defense of pedro feliz proved you're not a huge stat guy

so rbi's are meaningless huh? the main run producing stat this sport has used for the past 130 some years doesn't count for anything? riigggggght. comments like that is proof positive why sabermetrics is a bit of a croc. that rob neyer guy had a list of 20 or more players who are better than ryan howard based on those numbers. c'mon!

"just get me to the plate boys"---sabermetric doesnt measure that kind of stat.

The Fixer

so rbi's are meaningless huh? the main run producing stat this sport has used for the past 130 some years doesn't count for anything? riigggggght. comments like that is proof positive why sabermetrics is a bit of a croc. that rob neyer guy had a list of 20 or more players who are better than ryan howard based on those numbers. c'mon!

"just get me to the plate boys"---sabermetric doesnt measure that kind of stat.[/quote]

I'm not a rob neyer fan either.

Think about RBI though...it is completely dependent on teammates being on base (except for solo HRs). christ, rico brogna had back to back 100 RBI seasons. RBI is a terrible judge of individual talent

The Juggler

The Fixer wrote:

so rbi's are meaningless huh? the main run producing stat this sport has used for the past 130 some years doesn't count for anything? riigggggght. comments like that is proof positive why sabermetrics is a bit of a croc. that rob neyer guy had a list of 20 or more players who are better than ryan howard based on those numbers. c'mon!

"just get me to the plate boys"---sabermetric doesnt measure that kind of stat.

I'm not a rob neyer fan either.

Think about RBI though...it is completely dependent on teammates being on base (except for solo HRs). christ, rico brogna had back to back 100 RBI seasons. RBI is a terrible judge of individual talent[/quote]

your quoting is offensive...

i hear you about depending upon guys in front of you being on base....but if you don't put the ball into play at the right spot, you won't have any rbi's to speak of.

so you're saying howard's 140 rbi's each year is a meaningless stat? i say having a shit load of rbi's means you're a clutch and timely hitter.

pjhawks

The Jeagler wrote:

The Fixer wrote:

so rbi's are meaningless huh? the main run producing stat this sport has used for the past 130 some years doesn't count for anything? riigggggght. comments like that is proof positive why sabermetrics is a bit of a croc. that rob neyer guy had a list of 20 or more players who are better than ryan howard based on those numbers. c'mon!

"just get me to the plate boys"---sabermetric doesnt measure that kind of stat.

I'm not a rob neyer fan either.

Think about RBI though...it is completely dependent on teammates being on base (except for solo HRs). christ, rico brogna had back to back 100 RBI seasons. RBI is a terrible judge of individual talent

Ryan Howard is the classic sit back over 162 games and no matter how bad he might look at times he is going to end up with 45+ homers and 140+ rbi's. Watching the guy every day he can be frustrating at times but the guy is an offensive stud that can single handedly carry you for weeks at a time. not to mention how much worth he gives a guy like Jason Werth. Do you think Jason Werth is an over 30 homer guy without howard in front of him?The end years of the deal may not be great for this franchise, but having him locked up gives this team another 3-4 years window in the NL - can't argue with that. I'll take the risk of 2 extra years at $25 million for the opportunity to win it all for another 3 or 4 years.

Cliffy6745

RBI is not meaningless but it is not a solid way to judge a player. If Ryan Howard played for the Pirates he would be lucky to have 100 rbi's. Too much of the stat depends on the players around him.

Cliffy6745

The Jeagler wrote:

but if you don't put the ball into play at the right spot, you won't have any rbi's to speak of.

And there is a great stat for the, BABIP

The Juggler

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

but if you don't put the ball into play at the right spot, you won't have any rbi's to speak of.

And there is a great stat for the, BABIP

you crazy kids and your stats

robbyblaylock

met fan here watching the mets make short work of the phils...a team i dont hate btw. aaaannyyyways, someone said that if you put ryan howard on a team like the pirates that he would produce alot less. same can be said for ANYONE YOU PUT IN THAT SITUATION (pujols, a-rod, cabrera, etc.) ryan howard can be a shitshow from time to time, but he produces runs because he can hit. yes, the team around him can hit too but he can bring them around more often than not. what about ortiz on boston? that lineup has always been loaded. he cant hit anymore and he isnt producing rbis like he used to. ryan howard is the real deal. did i mention im a met fan? rbis are not an overrated stat. im not a huge numbers guy but they still affect how the game is played and managed. whats the point of putting a guy in a spot to knock in runs if he cant hit? ryan howard finds a way just like other big run producers do.

The Fixer

RBI are more a product of a team's lineup than an individual players' ability to produce. RBI are completely dependent on people being on base.

Also, you don't even need to get a hit to get an RBI. It has nothing to do with 'clutch hitting' as someone else mentioned.

RBI, wins (for pitchers), saves. they're all bad judges of performance. all of those stats are mainly dependent on outside factors.

The Fixer

robbyblaylock wrote:

met fan here watching the mets make short work of the phils...a team i dont hate btw. aaaannyyyways, someone said that if you put ryan howard on a team like the pirates that he would produce alot less. same can be said for ANYONE YOU PUT IN THAT SITUATION (pujols, a-rod, cabrera, etc.) ryan howard can be a shitshow from time to time, but he produces runs because he can hit. yes, the team around him can hit too but he can bring them around more often than not. what about ortiz on boston? that lineup has always been loaded. he cant hit anymore and he isnt producing rbis like he used to. ryan howard is the real deal. did i mention im a met fan? rbis are not an overrated stat. im not a huge numbers guy but they still affect how the game is played and managed. whats the point of putting a guy in a spot to knock in runs if he cant hit? ryan howard finds a way just like other big run producers do.

david ortiz had 99 RBI last year.

like I mentioned before...rico brogna had consecutive 100 RBI seasons for the phils. RBI are compilation stats that are virtually meaningless when evaluating a players performance

thanks for telling us that ryan howard is for real. that's good to know

The Fixer

The end years of the deal may not be great for this franchise, but having him locked up gives this team another 3-4 years window in the NL - can't argue with that. I'll take the risk of 2 extra years at $25 million for the opportunity to win it all for another 3 or 4 years.[/quote]

totally disagree. this deal hurts the phils ability to win over the next 3 to 4 years. Howard had 2 years left on his deal. There was no need to extend him so early (if at all). Now they have so much money allocated to howard, it restricts their ability to add players at the deadline, or re-sign more important players like rollins and utley.

I like howard, but this deal is horrible for the phils. I'm in the minority...most people in philly were happy when howard got $10 million in arbitration, even though that was bad for the phils too.

there's a reason most baseball analysts (ie not philly radio hosts or newspaper columnists) hate this contract from the phils perspective

jimed14

The Jeagler wrote:

Cliffy6745 wrote:

The Jeagler wrote:

sabermetrics are for geeks.

Not true

haha...i am only half kidding.

not a huge stat guy.

this explains a lot.

preach on cliffy.

neilybabes86

wow mets

eeriepadave

damn, stop the bleeding. Least their slump is in the beginning of the year :?