let's wait until the season is over before canonizing joey votto over ryan howard. oh and when joey votto wins and mvp and finishes 2nd in mvp voting give me a call - until then PUHLEESE
ah, the always comical MVP debate. Rollins won an MVP too and Jeter never has. That means Rollins is the better player right?
come on man, the MVP thing is dumb. If you want to use that we can look at all star appearances. it's no coincidence that howard has only made 2 all star teams (one of which he didn't even deserve, but manuel was managing and took him as a reserve). either way, all star/MVP stuff is a weak way to support a stance
so 2 dominating seasons mean nothing but a guy having a good april-june is awesome a la votto - listen to yourself please. all star games appearances are meaningless because a guy like votto being the best player on a bad team will always make it because they have to take one player from each team.
ok, we can use 2009 stats if you'd like
votto 322/414/567
howard 279/360/571
just sayin, one can make an argument that votto is just as valuable offensively, if not moreso.
Was bored tonight so I did a little research with the top sluggers of the 4 best teams arguably since 2004 - Red Sox, Yankees, Phils and Cardinals. Between them they've won 5 of the last 6 World Series and went through game logs to see winning percentage in games in which their big slugger (Ortiz, A Rod, Howard and Pujols hit homers since 04 - for Howard 05) Not trying to prove anything - was just curious as to what were winning percentages when top sluggers homered for their teams.
Huh? You serious? 10-15 teams would give Ryan Howard $25 mil a year and the rest won't because they haev a 1st baseman? You're kidding right? Did you talk to GM's? Which teams are these?
There's maybe 5 or 6 teams tops that can afford 25 million a year for one player and two were already off the market - the Red Sox with Youk and the Yanks with Tex. The Phils defintiely outbid themselves for Howard's contract but I've always thought that.
I like Howard just not at that price though.
Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Tigers, Phillies
Dodgers would be able to but with that situation they are not adding payroll.
Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers are all out.
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers all have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
I was goign to mention the Angels. They are kind of on the edge. $105MM.
it would be one thing if the phils were in the AL and they gave him this contract. maybe amaro forgot what league his team is in. that wouldn't justify the horrendous deal, but it would make it easier to swallow
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers all have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
I was goign to mention the Angels. They are kind of on the edge. $105MM.
it would be one thing if the phils were in the AL and they gave him this contract. maybe amaro forgot what league his team is in
Still, that is 7 teams we mentioned. 5 are out of the bidding, Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Angels, Tigers. That leaves the Phillies and Cubs (I know nothing about the Cubs system). Not to mention Agon, Fielder and Pujols are all going to be FA's as well. If they had not given him the extension there would have been a whole lot more 1B available than the demand and Econ 101 will tell you what happens in that situation.
Edit: I do think Boston wants Agon and will have Youk play 3rd.
Still, that is 7 teams we mentioned. 5 are out of the bidding, Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Angels, Tigers. That leaves the Phillies and Cubs (I know nothing about the Cubs system). Not to mention Agon, Fielder and Pujols are all going to be FA's as well. If they had not given him the extension there would have been a whole lot more 1B available than the demand and Econ 101 will tell you what happens in that situation.
so their bench tonight -- francisco, schneider, gload, valdez, castro. yikes
Dobbs should be done here as he's the lesser evil out of him and gload. there is absolutely no need to keep castro and valdez though. keep one, not both (and I don't think it matters which one they keep)
so their bench tonight -- francisco, schneider, gload, valdez, castro. yikes
Dobbs should be done here as he's the lesser evil out of him and gload. there is absolutely no need to keep castro and valdez though. keep one, not both (and I don't think it matters which one they keep)
dobbs is slop. doesnt he have to accept that or something since he's been in the league for so long?
one thing gillick did much better than amaro was find the right mix of guys off the bench.....though, it looks like he got extremely lucky with dobber a couple years ago.
i wonder if mayberry will be up soon. he's probably not going to be an everyday player at this point. might as well bring him up as a 4th outfielder. give rauuuuul a break at times...
if i didnt see castro and valdez on the field at the same time when polanco was hurt, nobody could convince me they were not the same person.
so their bench tonight -- francisco, schneider, gload, valdez, castro. yikes
Dobbs should be done here as he's the lesser evil out of him and gload. there is absolutely no need to keep castro and valdez though. keep one, not both (and I don't think it matters which one they keep)
dobbs is slop. doesnt he have to accept that or something since he's been in the league for so long?
one thing gillick did much better than amaro was find the right mix of guys off the bench.....though, it looks like he got extremely lucky with dobber a couple years ago.
i wonder if mayberry will be up soon. he's probably not going to be an everyday player at this point. might as well bring him up as a 4th outfielder. give rauuuuul a break at times...
if i didnt see castro and valdez on the field at the same time when polanco was hurt, nobody could convince me they were not the same person.
I mentioned this earlier, and of course no one saw it.
The Phillies could try to trade him, but that's not gonna happen. So he'll be placed on waivers, which he will most certainly clear because I don't see any team paying him what he's getting paid. He'll then most likely accept a demotion to triple A where he hopefully rights himself, because we need another lefty bat and I don't know what's available on the trade market that would be worthy of sacrificing prospects for.
If anything Francisco should a get a shit ton more playing time. Mayberry could come up after the all star break because they brought up Zagurski instead. They don't have any days off until the AS break so they're going to need another lefty arm - hence why Fat Mike is here.
There's maybe 5 or 6 teams tops that can afford 25 million a year for one player and two were already off the market - the Red Sox with Youk and the Yanks with Tex. The Phils defintiely outbid themselves for Howard's contract but I've always thought that.
I like Howard just not at that price though.
Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Tigers, Phillies
Dodgers would be able to but with that situation they are not adding payroll.
Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers are all out.
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
And they are far superior ballplayers. The biggest thing that I don't think people are getting out of this is how much it's going to skew salaries for 1B going forward.
BUT - I'll say this much. This organization can justify that salary in a way. Fans love the long ball, and I read this article before that justifies inflated salaries from an entertainment standpoint. IE. more homers equals more asses in the seats at a time when this team might not be selling out every game. Thereby becoming an attraction.
And Hell, who knows, maybe they win a couple more championships and 25 mil is the new 18 mil in 2014.
Dodgers would be able to but with that situation they are not adding payroll.
Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers are all out.
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
And they are far superior ballplayers. The biggest thing that I don't think people are getting out of this is how much it's going to skew salaries for 1B going forward.
BUT - I'll say this much. This organization can justify that salary in a way. Fans love the long ball, and I read this article before that justifies inflated salaries from an entertainment standpoint. IE. more homers equals more asses in the seats at a time when this team might not be selling out every game. Thereby becoming an attraction.
And Hell, who knows, maybe they win a couple more championships and 25 mil is the new 18 mil in 2014.
good point. if, in 2017, we're not competive anymore but the R6 is pushing to 500 homers....boom---people in the seats.....including a disgruntled fan out in left field who answers to "the fixer."
and, by the way, if he gets to 500 homers which will mean he's got a decent shot at the hof, and we win another title in the next few years, who the fuck will care that he's overpaid?
:roll:
it's amazing to watch a 47, almost 48 year old guy befuddle players - how is it possible they can't hit him? regardless of what you think about him that fact the guy can still pitch even remotely effectively in the major leagues at age 47 is unbelievable.
it's amazing to watch a 47, almost 48 year old guy befuddle players - how is it possible they can't hit him? regardless of what you think about him that fact the guy can still pitch even remotely effectively in the major leagues at age 47 is unbelievable.
harold reynolds was talking about that last night. he said jamie's issue is finding a way to slow down his change up because his fast ball is only 82/82mph. i guess as long as you can have a decent difference in the two, it still works....if you're hitting the right spots on the plate.
so their bench tonight -- francisco, schneider, gload, valdez, castro. yikes
Dobbs should be done here as he's the lesser evil out of him and gload. there is absolutely no need to keep castro and valdez though. keep one, not both (and I don't think it matters which one they keep)
dobbs is slop. doesnt he have to accept that or something since he's been in the league for so long?
one thing gillick did much better than amaro was find the right mix of guys off the bench.....though, it looks like he got extremely lucky with dobber a couple years ago.
i wonder if mayberry will be up soon. he's probably not going to be an everyday player at this point. might as well bring him up as a 4th outfielder. give rauuuuul a break at times...
if i didnt see castro and valdez on the field at the same time when polanco was hurt, nobody could convince me they were not the same person.
dobbs was a great bench guy for the first couple of years he was here. led MLB in pinch hits in 2008. gillick doesn't get lucky...he was great. he knew dobbs from his seattle days.
mayberry sucks balls. francisco is 20 million times better. mayberry isn't a major league player
so their bench tonight -- francisco, schneider, gload, valdez, castro. yikes
Dobbs should be done here as he's the lesser evil out of him and gload. there is absolutely no need to keep castro and valdez though. keep one, not both (and I don't think it matters which one they keep)
dobbs is slop. doesnt he have to accept that or something since he's been in the league for so long?
one thing gillick did much better than amaro was find the right mix of guys off the bench.....though, it looks like he got extremely lucky with dobber a couple years ago.
i wonder if mayberry will be up soon. he's probably not going to be an everyday player at this point. might as well bring him up as a 4th outfielder. give rauuuuul a break at times...
if i didnt see castro and valdez on the field at the same time when polanco was hurt, nobody could convince me they were not the same person.
I mentioned this earlier, and of course no one saw it.
The Phillies could try to trade him, but that's not gonna happen. So he'll be placed on waivers, which he will most certainly clear because I don't see any team paying him what he's getting paid. He'll then most likely accept a demotion to triple A where he hopefully rights himself, because we need another lefty bat and I don't know what's available on the trade market that would be worthy of sacrificing prospects for.
If anything Francisco should a get a shit ton more playing time. Mayberry could come up after the all star break because they brought up Zagurski instead. They don't have any days off until the AS break so they're going to need another lefty arm - hence why Fat Mike is here.
their bench will be sweet this weekend with the DH in the lineup. figure gload/francisco will DH depending on whether there's a RH or LH pitcher in there. Then you've got sardina (whatever the backup catcher's name is), valdez, and castro. christ, that's awful. good job rube, you turd
Dodgers would be able to but with that situation they are not adding payroll.
Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Tigers are all out.
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
BUT - I'll say this much. This organization can justify that salary in a way. Fans love the long ball, and I read this article before that justifies inflated salaries from an entertainment standpoint. IE. more homers equals more asses in the seats at a time when this team might not be selling out every game. Thereby becoming an attraction.
I have to disagree with this line of thinking. you know what sells seats? winning. this contract hampers their ability to win going forward. that's why it sucks
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
And they are far superior ballplayers. The biggest thing that I don't think people are getting out of this is how much it's going to skew salaries for 1B going forward.
BUT - I'll say this much. This organization can justify that salary in a way. Fans love the long ball, and I read this article before that justifies inflated salaries from an entertainment standpoint. IE. more homers equals more asses in the seats at a time when this team might not be selling out every game. Thereby becoming an attraction.
And Hell, who knows, maybe they win a couple more championships and 25 mil is the new 18 mil in 2014.
good point. if, in 2017, we're not competive anymore but the R6 is pushing to 500 homers....boom---people in the seats.....including a disgruntled fan out in left field who answers to "the fixer."
and, by the way, if he gets to 500 homers which will mean he's got a decent shot at the hof, and we win another title in the next few years, who the fuck will care that he's overpaid?
:roll:
GO. PHILS.
I don't care about MVPs, 500th home runs, HOFers, or any of that individual shit. I want the phillies to win. plain and simple. howard's contract is an albatross
winning sells more tickets than anything. think about how much playoff gates are worth alone
I'd say a certain persons two favorite targets looked pretty good tonight. Way to go Ryan and Jamie i appericate your efforts.
yep, howard looked great on that foul pop up. moyer pitched great...but he was facing the worst lineup in baseball. austin kearns hitting cleanup. really?
On another note...I have a contact in the phillies ticket office. He sent me an email and offered me a free suite for friday night's game. I have plans with the wife that I can't get out of (and I'm going saturday anyway). If anyone's interested shoot me a PM and I should be able to hook you up.
I don't care about MVPs, 500th home runs, HOFers, or any of that individual shit. I want the phillies to win. plain and simple. howard's contract is an albatross
winning sells more tickets than anything. think about how much playoff gates are worth alone
wait i thought on-base percentage was the most important thing? the Phils have won HISTORICALLY over the past 3 seasons for this franchise with arguably their best player being RYAN HOWARD - yet you bitch about him on a daily basis. where is your logic? just stop please. enough of your Howard bashing.
I don't care about MVPs, 500th home runs, HOFers, or any of that individual shit. I want the phillies to win. plain and simple. howard's contract is an albatross
winning sells more tickets than anything. think about how much playoff gates are worth alone
wait i thought on-base percentage was the most important thing? the Phils have won HISTORICALLY over the past 3 seasons for this franchise with arguably their best player being RYAN HOWARD - yet you bitch about him on a daily basis. where is your logic? just stop please. enough of your Howard bashing.
if you think howard is better than utley I don't know what to tell you. go study the lidge sinker and RBI totals
And they are far superior ballplayers. The biggest thing that I don't think people are getting out of this is how much it's going to skew salaries for 1B going forward.
BUT - I'll say this much. This organization can justify that salary in a way. Fans love the long ball, and I read this article before that justifies inflated salaries from an entertainment standpoint. IE. more homers equals more asses in the seats at a time when this team might not be selling out every game. Thereby becoming an attraction.
And Hell, who knows, maybe they win a couple more championships and 25 mil is the new 18 mil in 2014.
good point. if, in 2017, we're not competive anymore but the R6 is pushing to 500 homers....boom---people in the seats.....including a disgruntled fan out in left field who answers to "the fixer."
and, by the way, if he gets to 500 homers which will mean he's got a decent shot at the hof, and we win another title in the next few years, who the fuck will care that he's overpaid?
:roll:
GO. PHILS.
I don't care about MVPs, 500th home runs, HOFers, or any of that individual shit. I want the phillies to win. plain and simple. howard's contract is an albatross
winning sells more tickets than anything. think about how much playoff gates are worth alone
what are you going to say if/when howard's up for the hall of fame? cuz if he gets to 500....all those individual numbers and awards plus the fact that his teams won at least 1 title and went to another means he'll be there.
Dobbs clears waivers. Going to play everyday in Lehigh. Hopefully he gets his swing back because we need another lefty off the bench, and there's really nothing out there.
Also - say the Phils desperately need a lefty hitter come September, and into the playoffs. Ya think there's any chance they bring up Brown before August 31st so he could qualify for the postseason roster? I know this concept sounds pretty crazy, but I guess it's just wishful thinking. I mean they're going to call him up in September anyway, so why not bring him up on August 30th just in case?
I don't care about MVPs, 500th home runs, HOFers, or any of that individual shit. I want the phillies to win. plain and simple. howard's contract is an albatross
winning sells more tickets than anything. think about how much playoff gates are worth alone
wait i thought on-base percentage was the most important thing? the Phils have won HISTORICALLY over the past 3 seasons for this franchise with arguably their best player being RYAN HOWARD - yet you bitch about him on a daily basis. where is your logic? just stop please. enough of your Howard bashing.
if you think howard is better than utley I don't know what to tell you. go study the lidge sinker and RBI totals
can you fn read? I said ARGUABLY not that he was the better player. and again use the fact that i typed something wrong, and edited within 5 minutes, 2 months ago against me. each day you become more and more of a dbag on here.
Comments
ok, we can use 2009 stats if you'd like
votto 322/414/567
howard 279/360/571
just sayin, one can make an argument that votto is just as valuable offensively, if not moreso.
much higher than I expected it to be. I still think it's a coincidence
I'd throw angels in there too. they have morales though
yanks and tigers have better 1B with lower annual salaries than howard. terrible
I was goign to mention the Angels. They are kind of on the edge. $105MM.
it would be one thing if the phils were in the AL and they gave him this contract. maybe amaro forgot what league his team is in. that wouldn't justify the horrendous deal, but it would make it easier to swallow
Still, that is 7 teams we mentioned. 5 are out of the bidding, Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Angels, Tigers. That leaves the Phillies and Cubs (I know nothing about the Cubs system). Not to mention Agon, Fielder and Pujols are all going to be FA's as well. If they had not given him the extension there would have been a whole lot more 1B available than the demand and Econ 101 will tell you what happens in that situation.
Edit: I do think Boston wants Agon and will have Youk play 3rd.
yeah, you're right. damn you
so their bench tonight -- francisco, schneider, gload, valdez, castro. yikes
Dobbs should be done here as he's the lesser evil out of him and gload. there is absolutely no need to keep castro and valdez though. keep one, not both (and I don't think it matters which one they keep)
MLBTR has Dobb's DFA'ed
dobbs is slop. doesnt he have to accept that or something since he's been in the league for so long?
one thing gillick did much better than amaro was find the right mix of guys off the bench.....though, it looks like he got extremely lucky with dobber a couple years ago.
i wonder if mayberry will be up soon. he's probably not going to be an everyday player at this point. might as well bring him up as a 4th outfielder. give rauuuuul a break at times...
if i didnt see castro and valdez on the field at the same time when polanco was hurt, nobody could convince me they were not the same person.
I mentioned this earlier, and of course no one saw it.
The Phillies could try to trade him, but that's not gonna happen. So he'll be placed on waivers, which he will most certainly clear because I don't see any team paying him what he's getting paid. He'll then most likely accept a demotion to triple A where he hopefully rights himself, because we need another lefty bat and I don't know what's available on the trade market that would be worthy of sacrificing prospects for.
If anything Francisco should a get a shit ton more playing time. Mayberry could come up after the all star break because they brought up Zagurski instead. They don't have any days off until the AS break so they're going to need another lefty arm - hence why Fat Mike is here.
And they are far superior ballplayers. The biggest thing that I don't think people are getting out of this is how much it's going to skew salaries for 1B going forward.
BUT - I'll say this much. This organization can justify that salary in a way. Fans love the long ball, and I read this article before that justifies inflated salaries from an entertainment standpoint. IE. more homers equals more asses in the seats at a time when this team might not be selling out every game. Thereby becoming an attraction.
And Hell, who knows, maybe they win a couple more championships and 25 mil is the new 18 mil in 2014.
good point. if, in 2017, we're not competive anymore but the R6 is pushing to 500 homers....boom---people in the seats.....including a disgruntled fan out in left field who answers to "the fixer."
and, by the way, if he gets to 500 homers which will mean he's got a decent shot at the hof, and we win another title in the next few years, who the fuck will care that he's overpaid?
:roll:
GO. PHILS.
it's amazing to watch a 47, almost 48 year old guy befuddle players - how is it possible they can't hit him? regardless of what you think about him that fact the guy can still pitch even remotely effectively in the major leagues at age 47 is unbelievable.
He rocks!
harold reynolds was talking about that last night. he said jamie's issue is finding a way to slow down his change up because his fast ball is only 82/82mph. i guess as long as you can have a decent difference in the two, it still works....if you're hitting the right spots on the plate.
Anyone wanna buy one ??
The ONLY thing better than a glass of beer is tea with Miss McGill
A protuberance of flesh above the waistband of a tight pair of trousers
dobbs was a great bench guy for the first couple of years he was here. led MLB in pinch hits in 2008. gillick doesn't get lucky...he was great. he knew dobbs from his seattle days.
mayberry sucks balls. francisco is 20 million times better. mayberry isn't a major league player
their bench will be sweet this weekend with the DH in the lineup. figure gload/francisco will DH depending on whether there's a RH or LH pitcher in there. Then you've got sardina (whatever the backup catcher's name is), valdez, and castro. christ, that's awful. good job rube, you turd
I have to disagree with this line of thinking. you know what sells seats? winning. this contract hampers their ability to win going forward. that's why it sucks
I don't care about MVPs, 500th home runs, HOFers, or any of that individual shit. I want the phillies to win. plain and simple. howard's contract is an albatross
winning sells more tickets than anything. think about how much playoff gates are worth alone
yep, howard looked great on that foul pop up. moyer pitched great...but he was facing the worst lineup in baseball. austin kearns hitting cleanup. really?
wait i thought on-base percentage was the most important thing? the Phils have won HISTORICALLY over the past 3 seasons for this franchise with arguably their best player being RYAN HOWARD - yet you bitch about him on a daily basis. where is your logic? just stop please. enough of your Howard bashing.
if you think howard is better than utley I don't know what to tell you. go study the lidge sinker and RBI totals
what are you going to say if/when howard's up for the hall of fame? cuz if he gets to 500....all those individual numbers and awards plus the fact that his teams won at least 1 title and went to another means he'll be there.
Also - say the Phils desperately need a lefty hitter come September, and into the playoffs. Ya think there's any chance they bring up Brown before August 31st so he could qualify for the postseason roster? I know this concept sounds pretty crazy, but I guess it's just wishful thinking. I mean they're going to call him up in September anyway, so why not bring him up on August 30th just in case?
can you fn read? I said ARGUABLY not that he was the better player. and again use the fact that i typed something wrong, and edited within 5 minutes, 2 months ago against me. each day you become more and more of a dbag on here.