Acquaintance Rape

redrock

Indian Summer wrote:

I'm not saying the guy wasn't way out of line.....but to accuse him of rape is way off base.

This is what the original poster said: "I'd say he did everything but rape me." She did not accuse him of rape.

Maybe this original post can open up the debate of 'date rape' instead of being extremely judgemental and accusatory. If the person had been 'nastier' maybe she wouldn't have been so lucky.

Indian Summer

redrock wrote:

This is what the original poster said: "I'd say he did everything but rape me." She did not accuse him of rape.

Maybe this original post can open up the debate of 'date rape' instead of being extremely judgmental and accusatory. If the person had been 'nastier' maybe she wouldn't have been so lucky.

She titled the thread "Acquaintance Rape" thats misleading.

redrock

Indian Summer wrote:

She titled the thread "Acquaintance Rape" thats misleading.

The thread title doesn't mean much, what is said in the original post does. The thing is that it could have led to a date rape. As I said, we can see the title as a more general debate on the subject. You seem to take this too personally and too much at heart.

GreenTeaDisease

Indian Summer wrote:

She titled the thread "Acquaintance Rape" thats misleading.

what really confuses me about the OP is that it says he "respected" her no's. so it seems like he kept "suggesting" they do stuff, and was basically being an ass for not leaving when asked, but he didn't actually assault her...but how is all this "respectful"? I don't know the story is just extremely confusing.

And also, how does snow preclude a coffee date? He still had to go out to her house. Whether it was laziness or originally wanting to get some or something, she had some alteria motive she is not telling us about. Not that it justifies the guy's bad behavior, but I don't think we have this entire story in front of us.

Indian Summer

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

what really confuses me about the OP is that it says he "respected" her no's. so it seems like he kept "suggesting" they do stuff, and was basically being an ass for not leaving when asked, but he didn't actually assault her...but how is all this "respectful"? I don't know the story is just extremely confusing.

And also, how does snow preclude a coffee date? He still had to go out to her house. Whether it was laziness or originally wanting to get some or something, she had some alteria motive she is not telling us about. Not that it justifies the guy's bad behavior, but I don't think we have this entire story in front of us.

I would love to hear HIS side of this story.

soulsinging

mookie9999 wrote:

LOL. But seriously, as a guy you may be hoping that movies = sex, but to assume and expect followed by being disappointed is asinine. That's the problem I've had with this thread. A lot of guys on here seem that expecting sex is ok up until the point of her saying no. As a guy in a committed relationship, I'm saying to hope is fine, to expect is foolish. That is all.

so how does one find out if that hope can become reality without trying? aside from having an attorney draw up papers like in the video i suggested?

GreenTeaDisease

mookie9999 wrote:

LOL. But seriously, as a guy you may be hoping that movies = sex, but to assume and expect followed by being disappointed is asinine. That's the problem I've had with this thread. A lot of guys on here seem that expecting sex is ok up until the point of her saying no. As a guy in a committed relationship, I'm saying to hope is fine, to expect is foolish. That is all.

hehe once this guy whom I knew and had gone on a few dates with but had become mostly just platonic with asked if I wanted to "watch a movie" one night. I totally assumed he wanted to hook up! I was fine with that idea...so he comes over...and he really just wanted to watch a movie! I felt very foolish!

in_hiding79

She wasn't raped....

Did he hit her, did her call her a whore?

She wasn't assaulted and she wasn't raped!

She was made uncomfortable by a guy who was horny and eager to get it on by a woman who INVITED him over. He didn't pin her down and hold her against her will!

She even stated that she didn't know the guy to well. That isn't smart!

The Champ

in_hiding79 wrote:

She wasn't raped....

Did he hit her, did her call her a whore?

She wasn't assaulted and she wasn't raped!

She was made uncomfortable by a guy who was horny and eager to get it on by a woman who INVITED him over. He didn't pin her down and hold her against her will!

She even stated that she didn't know the guy to well. That isn't smart!

As a warning, if you invite me over to watch some dumb fucking movie, fully expect me to make a move early. This way if you turn me down, maybe I'd still make happy hour..

comebackwoman

drivingrl wrote:

It's called self-restraint. If a woman says "no," that's the end of the discussion. Period. No matter what she's wearing, no matter what she says, no means no. Any other response is a lack of self-restraint on the man's part.

If I were you, I'd be very careful about saying things like this. It is never the victim's fault.

Agreed. I don't see why her choice of clothing is even up for discussion. That's like saying if a guy driving a fancy car and wearing an expensive watch asks me out I not only have the right to expect that he'll pay for the date, but that if he refuses I can then take his car and a couple credit cards cause he led me on. :rolleyes:

drivingrl

Indian Summer wrote:

She wasn't raped! There was no victim! She just had some awkward moments on a date. People throw that term around too loosely.

It doesn't have to go as far as rape. It's an imbalance of power I'm referring to. That threat or that feeling like a situation is out of your control.

mookie9999

soulsinging wrote:

so how does one find out if that hope can become reality without trying? aside from having an attorney draw up papers like in the video i suggested?

So he makes a move, she says no, c'est finit! This guy allegedly hung around for another 15 minutes and blamed it on her clothing. That's all. I'm not trying to hinder anyone from making a move, but if all he's going off of (or getting off on) is her outfit, then he might be grasping at straws.

soulsinging

comebackgirl wrote:

Agreed. I don't see why her choice of clothing is even up for discussion. That's like saying if a guy driving a fancy car and wearing an expensive watch asks me out I not only have the right to expect that he'll pay for the date,

yes. you are welcome to your hopes and expectations based on your perceptions.

comebackgirl wrote:

but that if he refuses I can then take his car and a couple credit cards cause he led me on. :rolleyes:

no. you are not allowed to force the other party to live up to them once it is clear they have said they will not.

is this really so hard for you all to comprehend?

soulsinging

mookie9999 wrote:

So he makes a move, she says no, c'est finit! This guy allegedly hung around for another 15 minutes and blamed it on her clothing. That's all. I'm not trying to hinder anyone from making a move, but if all he's going off of (or getting off on) is her outfit, then he might be grasping at straws.

so what? poor judgment is not a crime. his misreading of the situation is not a crime, nor is his trying to find out if he was right sexual assault. it is his behavior AFTER he found out that those perceptions were wrong that is sexual harassment or assault. which is what i've been saying this whole time. that his behavior after she said no is wrong, period. but that whatever he did before that is "just tryin to get laid."

mookie9999

GreenTeaDisease wrote:

hehe once this guy whom I knew and had gone on a few dates with but had become mostly just platonic with asked if I wanted to "watch a movie" one night. I totally assumed he wanted to hook up! I was fine with that idea...so he comes over...and he really just wanted to watch a movie! I felt very foolish!

soulsinging

drivingrl wrote:

It doesn't have to go as far as rape. It's an imbalance of power I'm referring to. That threat or that feeling like a situation is out of your control.

so now all men are guilty of any crimes you think they might possibly commit? if i say hello and you think "jesus, he could rape me" then i am guilty of sexual harassment and assault? if you go on a blind date and the guy turns out to be kinda ugly and creepy, you should be able to press charges based on him making you feel uncomfortable, regardless of what he did?

GreenTeaDisease

drivingrl wrote:

It doesn't have to go as far as rape. It's an imbalance of power I'm referring to. That threat or that feeling like a situation is out of your control.

I know the feeling you are referring to (what woman doesn't) and that's when you have to take control back.

mookie9999

soulsinging wrote:

so now all men are guilty of any crimes you think they might possibly commit? if i say hello and you think "jesus, he could rape me" then i am guilty of sexual harassment and assault? if you go on a blind date and the guy turns out to be kinda ugly and creepy, you should be able to press charges based on him making you feel uncomfortable, regardless of what he did?

On principle, and principle alone, you are right on most accounts, yet you are pullling extreme examples out of the sky and presenting them as true (see post above). I can't speak for everyone on here, but personally, the problem I have with you and otherss (on this subject) is the justification and expectation of something based on clothing that may or may not have been worn. These are people not objects were talking about. If I was taken to Baskin Robbins I would have the right to expect some ice cream, if I'm headed over to a girls house I don't have the same right with sex. Sorry you can't see how this might be offensive to some. You bet your ass I'm hoping for some fun times, but wouldn't base any decisions on what she was wearing, but rather how the evening was progressing.

soulsinging

mookie9999 wrote:

On principle, and principle alone, you are right on most accounts, yet you are pullling extreme examples out of the sky and presenting them as true (see post above). I can't speak for everyone on here, but personally, the problem I have with you and otherss (on this subject) is the justification and expectation of something based on clothing that may or may not have been worn. These are people not objects were talking about. If I was taken to Baskin Robbins I would have the right to expect some ice cream, if I'm headed over to a girls house I don't have the same right with sex. Sorry you can't see how this might be offensive to some. You bet your ass I'm hoping for some fun times, but wouldn't base any decisions on what she was wearing, but rather how the evening was progressing.

that is part of what im basing it on... how the evening was progressing. she barely knows this guy. she calls him up on a dark and snowy evening. asks if he wants to come over and watch a late movie alone with her. he shows up, sees she is dressed appealingly... im not alone in thinking this sounds like a pretty classic booty call.

also, where di i ever say anyone has a right to sex? show me where? i said he does nothing wrong by reading the situation and maybe getting it wrong. he has a right to think whatever the hell he wants of the situation adn the right to find out by making a move. it is only once his advance is rejected and he continues on that he does something wrong. he has no right to sex. he has every right to think that's what he's being called over for and to find out. he does not have a right to persist on his course after she says no.

to say that he is wrong for what he thinks, regardless of what he bases that on, is what i find offensive... and i think it is what the men here are reacting to. we are not just being told what actions we can and cannot take, we are being told by women that we are not allowed to think certain thoughts regardless of what she is doing.

also, if this had been a guy she liked and wanted to sleep with and everything else had been the same and he had not made any moves all night, she would be on here in this post bitching about how guys dont pick up on anything and what does she have to do to get his attention.

mookie9999

soulsinging wrote:

to say that he is wrong for what he thinks, regardless of what he bases that on, is what i find offensive... and i think it is what the men here are reacting to. we are not just being told what actions we can and cannot take, we are being told by women that we are not allowed to think certain thoughts regardless of what she is doing.

Maybe he is just a really bad read on people. If she exuding signs such as making advances or not turning down his advances then this thread wouldn't exist either. If he is that bad a read maybe I could play him in Poker, cause I'm a shitty gambler! You didn't say he had a right to sex, but you created and continue to create a situation that may not have happened (her dressing sexy, acting like a booty call, etc.). Until she comes back on and gives more details there really isn't any other place for this conversation to go other than even further examples of speculation. I'm out.