All assumptions made by a certain type of person. Same people making the assumption she wore indecent clothes (dressed to provoke, on purpose), etc.
ignore the clothes point for a second, because Tish has explicity said several times that she does not know this guy.
Helen however is thinking of this scenario with regards to a friend.
They are two fundementally different scenarios: One has a basis for trust, the other does not. One has a higher likelihood of being a booty call, the other has lower chance.
If a hot man in a suit walking down the street asked a woman to come over to his place later that nite for movies, would she assume he really wanted to watch a movie, or would she think, "he wants sex"?
i think that the basis that they did not know each other well means the clothes COULD have been indicative of sexual intentions, not necissarily that they were.
perhaps American being the operative word... I think I made the connection earlier that it seems to be the Americans who would make that assumption... it also seems to be Americans who can't understand being friends with the opposite gender.
No that's just women. Like I said before, I still can't get over how to this day women don't understand how men work. It's so simple. Women don't understand how men are into porn or look at other women, or can't be 'just friends' with a hot girl, etc etc. Enough with the cluelessness. Men are men. Always have been, always will be, not matter how much you think they are pigs. Deal with it or join a convent.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Isn't this (particular) arguement about the perception of others, though?
If people say that doing "A" will make people think "B," you can't say that is untrue just because it doesn't reflect your own intentions when doing "A". The entire concept is contingent on a 3rd party.
Exactly why I was saying inferring her own experience from this situation is a mistake and clouds reasoning on THIS particular situation.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
id agree....and that can come about when you are in the situation that they two people are alone, which as pointed out by Helen and others earlier, can happen when youre out in a street or party etc, and even if you take great care....
am i following that? cos i didnt get the gist of that Balance of Power point earlier. is it just based on when the man and woman are alone and the man tries to exert himself or break her down?
Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. It can happen between any two people - a man and woman or a person and a child.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
All assumptions made by a certain type of person. Same people making the assumption she wore indecent clothes (dressed to provoke, on purpose), etc.
It wasn't all that long ago that I was in college. When I girl (not a friend who happens to be a girl) invited me over to 'watch movies' alone in her dorm/apartment it meant that she liked me and wanted to find out where it would lead, i.e. friendship, fuck buddy etc. I never expected sex, but we both knew what the purpose of the meeting was, and it certainly wasn't about watching Harry fucking Potter...What she wore, really didn't make a difference to me at all. So yeah, not expecting anything, but I certainly brought condoms and trimmed the dick hair just in case ..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Nobody's said anything about not holding people responsible for their actions. Where have I said that or even implied that in the least? My point is that those things happen, so why put yourself in that situation that increases the risk of it happening? Regardless of the person who's at fault, you should have a good enough head on your shoulders to know what kind of situation you are putting yourself into and assessing risks. I feel like I'm speaking Greek or something, is it really that foreign an idea? Of course things happen when you least expect it. Of course a well known person can assault you. But of all the risks that are inherent in everyday life, WHY would you want to go around increasing those risks by doing stupid shit? It has nothing to do with holding the rest of the world responsible for things that happen, it's about holding ourselves responsible for our own choices and actions. I can have someone arrested for stealing my car in the ghetto, of course. But I'll also label myself an idiot for parking there and leaving it overnight.
Ok - take a deep breath and re-read my post - I never said you implied anything, I'm not arguing with you. I was simply separating this out as 2 different issues:
1) take steps to increase your safety - that's good judgment
2) regardless of whether or not you take those steps, if you are a victim the responsibility rests solely with the perp. and you shouldn't be made to feel guilty that you didn't do everything in your power to keep someone else from violating you
That being said, we all do things that increase our risk. Using the pit as an example, many of us (myself included) have released personal information on a completely public forum - i.e. - pictures, real names, towns, dates of births - all of these things make us more vulnerable to crime. Yes - it's good taomake choices that will keep you safer, but some time, some way, some how we all slip up...whether that's revealing personal info on the net, parking in an unsafe spot, flirting with someone you don't know well on the pit, or inviting someone you don't know well to your apartment. We do these things without thinking sometimes. They increase our risk. We ALL do things that can increase our risk.
2) regardless of whether or not you take those steps, if you are a victim the responsibility rests solely with the perp. and you shouldn't be made to feel guilty that you didn't do everything in your power to keep someone else from violating you
Well said.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Ok - take a deep breath and re-read my post - I never said you implied anything, I'm not arguing with you. I was simply separating this out as 2 different issues:
1) take steps to increase your safety - that's good judgment
2) regardless of whether or not you take those steps, if you are a victim the responsibility rests solely with the perp. and you shouldn't be made to feel guilty that you didn't do everything in your power to keep someone else from violating you
That being said, we all do things that increase our risk. Using the pit as an example, many of us (myself included) have released personal information on a completely public forum - i.e. - pictures, real names, towns, dates of births - all of these things make us more vulnerable to crime. Yes - it's good taomake choices that will keep you safer, but some time, some way, some how we all slip up...whether that's revealing personal info on the net, parking in an unsafe spot, flirting with someone you don't know well on the pit, or inviting someone you don't know well to your apartment. We do these things without thinking sometimes. They increase our risk. We ALL do things that can increase our risk.
I'm completely calm my dear, just frustrated with lack of common sense (not from you) .
I actually think we are in near complete agreement, along with most people here. The crux of the disagreement/misunderstanding I believe is in your point #2. The OP states NO crime. I think the girls here are looking at this from a criminal aspect. I completely agree with your thoughts had this been a crime. But it wasn't, therefore you CAN place blame or criticize the actions of both parties in this situation. There was no assault, no rape and the guy left when asked to. It's NEVER ok for someone to act inappropriately or force someone into a situation they are uncomfortable with, but in situations like this a girl can be criticized for lack of judgement on what she could potentially be inviting into her home.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
I'm completely calm my dear, just frustrated with lack of common sense (not from you) .
I actually think we are in near complete agreement, along with most people here. The crux of the disagreement/misunderstanding I believe is in your point #2. The OP states NO crime. I think the girls here are looking at this from a criminal aspect. I completely agree with your thoughts had this been a crime. But it wasn't, therefore you CAN place blame or criticize the actions of both parties in this situation. There was no assault, no rape and the guy left when asked to. It's NEVER ok for someone to act inappropriately or force someone into a situation they are uncomfortable with, but in situations like this a girl can be criticized for lack of judgement on what she could potentially be inviting into her home.
She was fortunate and wasn't harmed - I agree - fortunately no assault. However, from what the OP stated he DIDN'T leave when requested - it took 15 minutes of him trying to persuade her to change her mind and for her to repeatedly ask him to leave. If someone repeatedly disregarded my "No" and tried to change my mind I would be frightened too - wondering how much ability I have to control the situation or protect myself at that point.
There was no assault, no rape and the guy left when asked to. It's NEVER ok for someone to act inappropriately or force someone into a situation they are uncomfortable with, but in situations like this a girl can be criticized for lack of judgement on what she could potentially be inviting into her home.
I have to agree and disagree with you on this one. See my response to what soulsinging said earlier:
It's like comebackgirl said, it's definitely best not to put yourself in a dangerous situation on purpose. That's common sense, right? But even though a crime wasn't committed, the guy was asking these questions and using his words to try to make tish feel uncomfortable and to exert power over her in that situation. My argument is, she did not bring that upon herself. That was his doing.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
She was fortunate and wasn't harmed - I agree - fortunately no assault. However, from what the OP stated he DIDN'T leave when requested - it took 15 minutes of him trying to persuade her to change her mind and for her to repeatedly ask him to leave. If someone repeatedly disregarded my "No" and tried to change my mind I would be frightened too - wondering how much ability I have to control the situation or protect myself at that point.
Hence why women shouldn't invite strange men over to their place! They don't know how they will be able to deal with them should this kind of situation arise. Glad we can agree.
Am I the only one with whom the majority of women I know understand not to invite strange men over? Regardless of what you want to happen or regardless of how the guy should behave, isn't this just a socially accepted understanding? I mean, a) men can be sex crazed and b) strangers can be unpredictable. Why oh why would you think inviting a strange man over is smart behavior. I've yet to see an explanation for this. Please, HH, Comebackgirl, anyone?
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
It's like comebackgirl said, it's definitely best not to put yourself in a dangerous situation on purpose. That's common sense, right? But even though a crime wasn't committed, the guy was asking these questions and using his words to try to make tish feel uncomfortable and to exert power over her in that situation. My argument is, she did not bring that upon herself. That was his doing.
Agreed. But she should also know better not to bring a strange man to her place of residence, should this situation arise. A woman should ALWAYS be on guard, even in the back of their mind, to this possibly happening, UNTIL you trust this person and have spent enough time with them to have a reasonable assessment of who they are. I think we can agree on that.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Agreed. But she should also know better not to bring a strange man to her place of residence, should this situation arise. A woman should ALWAYS be on guard, even in the back of their mind, to this possibly happening, UNTIL you trust this person and have spent enough time with them to have a reasonable assessment of who they are. I think we can agree on that.
I do agree. But how does that make his actions any less forced upon her?
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
No means no. Its really as simple as that. I dont care if she answered the door naked, no means no. If you make a move and are told no, and thats all you want, leave. Dont be a fucking creepy prick and force the issue.
Sorry this happened. If someone wouldnt leave my house after I told them to leave more than one time, I would call the cops or run to a neighbors house (I am a 33 year old dude). People are fucked up and you never know what can happen. get yourself out of strange places/scenarios as fast as possible before shit goes down.
For the record, a crime was committed here. Trespassing. A person was told to leave one property and wouldnt. it took 15 minutes. After the first "please leave" and a reasonable amount of time gather your shit and leave and you dont leave, you are/were trespassing.
All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
I do agree. But how does that make his actions any less forced upon her?
They don't. But if we are to believe the OP, he didn't assault her. He 'mistakenly' read her invitations and tried to make a move. Multiple moves apparently. He of course should have stopped when she said no and left when she said leave. He's completely at fault for anything he initiates after that. Our contention is that for her to invite a strange man over to watch videos not only shows a lack of safety judgement on her part, but also shows cluelessness in not thinking that a man would assume a romantic encounter.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
No means no. Its really as simple as that. I dont care if she answered the door naked, no means no. If you make a move and are told no, and thats all you want, leave. Dont be a fucking creepy prick and force the issue.
Sorry this happened. If someone wouldnt leave my house after I told them to leave more than one time, I would call the cops or run to a neighbors house (I am a 33 year old dude). People are fucked up and you never know what can happen. get yourself out of strange places/scenarios as fast as possible before shit goes down.
For the record, a crime was committed here. Trespassing. A person was told to leave one property and wouldnt. it took 15 minutes. After the first "please leave" and a reasonable amount of time gather your shit and leave and you dont leave, you are/were trespassing.
Wow...just...
wow.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
They don't. But if we are to believe the OP, he didn't assault her. He 'mistakenly' read her invitations and tried to make a move. Multiple moves apparently. He of course should have stopped when she said no and left when she said leave. He's completely at fault for anything he initiates after that. Our contention is that for her to invite a strange man over to watch videos not only shows a lack of safety judgement on her part, but also shows cluelessness in not thinking that a man would assume a romantic encounter.
The problem is that by suggesting this, it seems as though you're saying she's completely at fault for what happened to her. And I think we're in agreement when I say (correct me if I'm wrong), regardless of the actions she took in inviting him over, wearing what she wore, etc, etc... it was still a lack of self-restraint on his part that caused this situation. Had he left it be when she said "No," then she wouldn't have been worried and had to talk back and forth with him for fifteen minutes asking him to leave.
Will tish be more weary from now on when inviting people over? Sure, because we all learn from these types of situations. Does that make it her fault? No, because he was the only person who could control his actions.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Trespassing??!?!??!?!??!?? Didn't she invite him over? How is that trespassing? To trespass is to "enter private land without permission". I think the phone call and her opening the door up for him pretty much blasts that theory out of the water.
The problem is that by suggesting this, it seems as though you're saying she's completely at fault for what happened to her. And I think we're in agreement when I say (correct me if I'm wrong), regardless of the actions she took in inviting him over, wearing what she wore, etc, etc... it was still a lack of self-restraint on his part that caused this situation. Had he left it be when she said "No," then she wouldn't have been worried and had to talk back and forth with him for fifteen minutes asking him to leave.
Will tish be more weary from now on when inviting people over? Sure, because we all learn from these types of situations. Does that make it her fault? No, because he was the only person who could control his actions.
Yea, we're in agreement. She should know better than not to have a strange man to her place, but fault lays with who initiates the action, regardless of 'signals'. I still don't think anything he did was criminal, just stupid and annoying.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Trespassing??!?!??!?!??!?? Didn't she invite him over? How is that trespassing? To trespass is to "enter private land without permission". I think the phone call and her opening the door up for him pretty much blasts that theory out of the water.
Yea, it's just more dramatization from the drama/victim crowd. Shameful slap in the face to real victims.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Yea, we're in agreement. She should know better than not to have a strange man to her place, but fault lays with who initiates the action, regardless of 'signals'. I still don't think anything he did was criminal, just stupid and annoying.
Nah, nothing he did was criminal or illegal in any way, obviously. I don't know about the trespassing bit, but otherwise nothing illegal happened.
But one thing that I think is clear is that what happened was not her fault. The responsibility lays solely with him, regardless of her actions.
It sounds like a ridiculous argument for me to stress, but it's important for people to understand that people who are victims of things like this are not to blame. I'm sorry to use the word "victim," because that's a heavily-loaded word to use in this case being that she wasn't raped, but it's a chilling thing when someone tries to exert that kind of power over you. It shakes you a bit.
And I'm sure tish will have learned something from this situation, but it's very risky to go around pointing the finger and saying, "Well, you're the one who invited him over, so it's your fault," because it never is. Rape victims are fastest to blame themselves for being raped, and that kind of mentality can be crippling. That is something that takes years to recover from.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Hence why women shouldn't invite strange men over to their place! They don't know how they will be able to deal with them should this kind of situation arise. Glad we can agree.
Am I the only one with whom the majority of women I know understand not to invite strange men over? Regardless of what you want to happen or regardless of how the guy should behave, isn't this just a socially accepted understanding? I mean, a) men can be sex crazed and b) strangers can be unpredictable. Why oh why would you think inviting a strange man over is smart behavior. I've yet to see an explanation for this. Please, HH, Comebackgirl, anyone?
I agree - it was not good judgment or a "smart" decision to invite a stranger (man, woman, anyone) to your apartment. That could definitely be a risky situation. But I don't think the focus should be on on the OP's judgment - as I've stated - we all have slips of judgment - we've probably all trusted too fast too soon, etc. The focus should be on the fact that she set a limit and he did not respect his limit - it shouldn't take 15 minutes of saying "no" - once is pretty clear to me.
Hence why women shouldn't invite strange men over to their place! They don't know how they will be able to deal with them should this kind of situation arise. Glad we can agree.
The thing is though - this same exact situation plays out again and again with men who are not strange - she could have known him for months - we actually have no idea about the details of her relationship with him - and this could still happen. Better to get to know someone first - of course! - but doesn't mean this still wouldn't have happened
The thing is though - this same exact situation plays out again and again with men who are not strange - she could have known him for months - we actually have no idea about the details of her relationship with him - and this could still happen. Better to get to know someone first - of course! - but doesn't mean this still wouldn't have happened
Agreed...there's only so much you can do to protect yourself. I don't envy women in the dating game, it's a scary world I'm sure. I girl once had me come to her place, up to her apartment and inside to pick her up for a date. Before even meeting her. That always struck me as a little crazy for a girl to do. You can be overpowered and taken advantage of so easily. Most women I know wouldn't do that, wouldn't show/tell a new man where she lived and wouldn't go on a date in a secluded area, no less invite them over....until they know them well enough. Just strikes me as irresponsible.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Agreed...there's only so much you can do to protect yourself. I don't envy women in the dating game, it's a scary world I'm sure. I girl once had me come to her place, up to her apartment and inside to pick her up for a date. Before even meeting her. That always struck me as a little crazy for a girl to do. You can be overpowered and taken advantage of so easily. Most women I know wouldn't do that, wouldn't show/tell a new man where she lived and wouldn't go on a date in a secluded area, no less invite them over....until they know them well enough. Just strikes me as irresponsible.
...or maybe trusting or naive...i think a lot of times people aren't aware of danger until they're exposed to it...either directly or vicariously. Sometimes you don't even realize the risks until after something bad happens.
perhaps American being the operative word... I think I made the connection earlier that it seems to be the Americans who would make that assumption... it also seems to be Americans who can't understand being friends with the opposite gender.
If I don't agree with something I'm not gonna change my mind just cos I'm the only one thinking differently
no, but perhaps you could try to understand where we're coming from and why we're skeptical about this guy being a horrible rapist when there was no rape and she said he respected her saying no, instead of tossing about wild generalizations about how all the guys here are closet rapists making excuses for sexual harassment and assault despite the fact that nobody has actually done that.
Comments
ignore the clothes point for a second, because Tish has explicity said several times that she does not know this guy.
Helen however is thinking of this scenario with regards to a friend.
They are two fundementally different scenarios: One has a basis for trust, the other does not. One has a higher likelihood of being a booty call, the other has lower chance.
If a hot man in a suit walking down the street asked a woman to come over to his place later that nite for movies, would she assume he really wanted to watch a movie, or would she think, "he wants sex"?
i think that the basis that they did not know each other well means the clothes COULD have been indicative of sexual intentions, not necissarily that they were.
No that's just women. Like I said before, I still can't get over how to this day women don't understand how men work. It's so simple. Women don't understand how men are into porn or look at other women, or can't be 'just friends' with a hot girl, etc etc. Enough with the cluelessness. Men are men. Always have been, always will be, not matter how much you think they are pigs. Deal with it or join a convent.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Exactly why I was saying inferring her own experience from this situation is a mistake and clouds reasoning on THIS particular situation.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. It can happen between any two people - a man and woman or a person and a child.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
right so.
It wasn't all that long ago that I was in college. When I girl (not a friend who happens to be a girl) invited me over to 'watch movies' alone in her dorm/apartment it meant that she liked me and wanted to find out where it would lead, i.e. friendship, fuck buddy etc. I never expected sex, but we both knew what the purpose of the meeting was, and it certainly wasn't about watching Harry fucking Potter...What she wore, really didn't make a difference to me at all. So yeah, not expecting anything, but I certainly brought condoms and trimmed the dick hair just in case
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
1) take steps to increase your safety - that's good judgment
2) regardless of whether or not you take those steps, if you are a victim the responsibility rests solely with the perp. and you shouldn't be made to feel guilty that you didn't do everything in your power to keep someone else from violating you
That being said, we all do things that increase our risk. Using the pit as an example, many of us (myself included) have released personal information on a completely public forum - i.e. - pictures, real names, towns, dates of births - all of these things make us more vulnerable to crime. Yes - it's good taomake choices that will keep you safer, but some time, some way, some how we all slip up...whether that's revealing personal info on the net, parking in an unsafe spot, flirting with someone you don't know well on the pit, or inviting someone you don't know well to your apartment. We do these things without thinking sometimes. They increase our risk. We ALL do things that can increase our risk.
Well said.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
I'm completely calm my dear, just frustrated with lack of common sense (not from you)
I actually think we are in near complete agreement, along with most people here. The crux of the disagreement/misunderstanding I believe is in your point #2. The OP states NO crime. I think the girls here are looking at this from a criminal aspect. I completely agree with your thoughts had this been a crime. But it wasn't, therefore you CAN place blame or criticize the actions of both parties in this situation. There was no assault, no rape and the guy left when asked to. It's NEVER ok for someone to act inappropriately or force someone into a situation they are uncomfortable with, but in situations like this a girl can be criticized for lack of judgement on what she could potentially be inviting into her home.
nowadays hits you when you're young
I have to agree and disagree with you on this one. See my response to what soulsinging said earlier:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5020190&postcount=327
It's like comebackgirl said, it's definitely best not to put yourself in a dangerous situation on purpose. That's common sense, right? But even though a crime wasn't committed, the guy was asking these questions and using his words to try to make tish feel uncomfortable and to exert power over her in that situation. My argument is, she did not bring that upon herself. That was his doing.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
Hence why women shouldn't invite strange men over to their place! They don't know how they will be able to deal with them should this kind of situation arise. Glad we can agree.
Am I the only one with whom the majority of women I know understand not to invite strange men over? Regardless of what you want to happen or regardless of how the guy should behave, isn't this just a socially accepted understanding? I mean, a) men can be sex crazed and b) strangers can be unpredictable. Why oh why would you think inviting a strange man over is smart behavior. I've yet to see an explanation for this. Please, HH, Comebackgirl, anyone?
nowadays hits you when you're young
Agreed. But she should also know better not to bring a strange man to her place of residence, should this situation arise. A woman should ALWAYS be on guard, even in the back of their mind, to this possibly happening, UNTIL you trust this person and have spent enough time with them to have a reasonable assessment of who they are. I think we can agree on that.
nowadays hits you when you're young
I do agree. But how does that make his actions any less forced upon her?
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
Sorry this happened. If someone wouldnt leave my house after I told them to leave more than one time, I would call the cops or run to a neighbors house (I am a 33 year old dude). People are fucked up and you never know what can happen. get yourself out of strange places/scenarios as fast as possible before shit goes down.
For the record, a crime was committed here. Trespassing. A person was told to leave one property and wouldnt. it took 15 minutes. After the first "please leave" and a reasonable amount of time gather your shit and leave and you dont leave, you are/were trespassing.
They don't. But if we are to believe the OP, he didn't assault her. He 'mistakenly' read her invitations and tried to make a move. Multiple moves apparently. He of course should have stopped when she said no and left when she said leave. He's completely at fault for anything he initiates after that. Our contention is that for her to invite a strange man over to watch videos not only shows a lack of safety judgement on her part, but also shows cluelessness in not thinking that a man would assume a romantic encounter.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Wow...just...
wow.
nowadays hits you when you're young
The problem is that by suggesting this, it seems as though you're saying she's completely at fault for what happened to her. And I think we're in agreement when I say (correct me if I'm wrong), regardless of the actions she took in inviting him over, wearing what she wore, etc, etc... it was still a lack of self-restraint on his part that caused this situation. Had he left it be when she said "No," then she wouldn't have been worried and had to talk back and forth with him for fifteen minutes asking him to leave.
Will tish be more weary from now on when inviting people over? Sure, because we all learn from these types of situations. Does that make it her fault? No, because he was the only person who could control his actions.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
Yea, we're in agreement. She should know better than not to have a strange man to her place, but fault lays with who initiates the action, regardless of 'signals'. I still don't think anything he did was criminal, just stupid and annoying.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Yea, it's just more dramatization from the drama/victim crowd. Shameful slap in the face to real victims.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Nah, nothing he did was criminal or illegal in any way, obviously. I don't know about the trespassing bit, but otherwise nothing illegal happened.
But one thing that I think is clear is that what happened was not her fault. The responsibility lays solely with him, regardless of her actions.
It sounds like a ridiculous argument for me to stress, but it's important for people to understand that people who are victims of things like this are not to blame. I'm sorry to use the word "victim," because that's a heavily-loaded word to use in this case being that she wasn't raped, but it's a chilling thing when someone tries to exert that kind of power over you. It shakes you a bit.
And I'm sure tish will have learned something from this situation, but it's very risky to go around pointing the finger and saying, "Well, you're the one who invited him over, so it's your fault," because it never is. Rape victims are fastest to blame themselves for being raped, and that kind of mentality can be crippling. That is something that takes years to recover from.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
And that's another part of this that really sucks.
Charlotte 03
Asheville 04
Atlanta 12
Greenville 16, Columbia 16
Seattle 18
Nashville 22
Well said. This is the most insightful post in this thread.
Agreed...there's only so much you can do to protect yourself. I don't envy women in the dating game, it's a scary world I'm sure. I girl once had me come to her place, up to her apartment and inside to pick her up for a date. Before even meeting her. That always struck me as a little crazy for a girl to do. You can be overpowered and taken advantage of so easily. Most women I know wouldn't do that, wouldn't show/tell a new man where she lived and wouldn't go on a date in a secluded area, no less invite them over....until they know them well enough. Just strikes me as irresponsible.
nowadays hits you when you're young
no, but perhaps you could try to understand where we're coming from and why we're skeptical about this guy being a horrible rapist when there was no rape and she said he respected her saying no, instead of tossing about wild generalizations about how all the guys here are closet rapists making excuses for sexual harassment and assault despite the fact that nobody has actually done that.