I don't get it either... I've never understood the muslim thing that women and men can't be alone together or that the woman should wear her scarf if a man's in the room... that's the way things are going. I don't know how it's got around to this... I guess some people have VERY little self esteem or something cos I can't understand how ANY woman could go along with the 'well she invited him into her house' :eek: or 'if she was dressed like that, what did she expect' argument... especially considering how some of these women are constantly looking for the male attention on this board so I find it quite ironic. I really really don't get it...
nobody anywhere in this thread has said that her choice of clothing or her behavior made it ok to rape her or that it entitled the man to have sex. nobody. several have noted, however, that if she was dressed provocatively and behaving flirtily, then it's really not unreasonable for the guy to have thought she wanted to fool around and to make a move. and there is nothing wrong with that. the clothing discussion only relates to that point. once she said no, nothing else matters and his behavior is inexcusable. his confusion is not though. given some of the inconsistencies in her story, i get the impression this was less him trying to force her to do anything and more him trying to figure out what the hell was going on.
in reply to her other thread? You thought it was funny and several of you imply that because she may have asked in another thread if she should 'bang her neighbour' well anything that happens to her from then on actually doesn't matter :rolleyes: . 'The Accused' springs to mind.
Nice :rolleyes:
this is bullshit. plain and simple. all i said is it makes me question if the story she's telling now is truly "i invited an acquaintance over and he tried to rape me" or rather if it's "i decided to go for it with the hot neighbor and chickened out." either one is fine and neither makes it ok for him to rape her (which HE DIDNT... you can't have a rape without a rape!). but it does means perhaps this isn't as traumatic as she makes it out to be. and crying false rape becos you're guilty and embarrassed is pretty crappy if you ask me.
But I thought ALL guys are into women like that if this thread's to be believed? So again, going by this thread, if all guys fancy all women well then women are stupid by being alone in a room with any guy.
no, most guys want to fuck all attractive women. a guy can be friends with an ugger, no problem. but if you're attractive, you cannot trust any guy. he will sleep with you if he has the chance. however, most will take no for an answer. it's a small minority that won't.
But I thought ALL guys are into women like that if this thread's to be believed? So again, going by this thread, if all guys fancy all women well then women are stupid by being alone in a room with any guy.
No....a guy you DON'T know very well. Don't put yourself in stupid situations, use common sense, etc etc. There's a lot of over dramatic rationalizing going on for this girl who put herself in a stupid situation. If I park my new sports car in an unknown part of town, which turns out to be the ghetto, and it gets stolen...well? Sure, it's the criminals fault, and he should be punished. Hopefully that goes without saying. But, I doubt I would get much sympathy from people for my idiotic actions. What am I doing parking my new car on the street of some shady neighborhood? I'd LIKE to believe that everyone is nice, but crime happens. It's unfortunate and it's up to me to make good decisions to avoid it as much as I can. Don't use the victim mentality to cover up stupidity.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
So this is the same chick who is surprised that some dude would have the nerve to hit on her when she invited him over for a cozy cuddly movie escape from the brutally cold but romantic snow filled Winter evening? Give me a fucking break. What a dumb fucking pointless thread...and she hasn't responded to her own dumb thread in days coz she's embarrassed and/or blowing the neighbor..
Bingo!
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
And as far as these judgments for her wanting to have sex with her neighbor... Heaven forbid she have desires! And I understand the guy she invited to her house had desires, too, but he barely knew better to stop pushing her when she said "No."
jesus you women... they are not judgments about her being a whore or having desires. they are questions about what REALLY happened. becos adding that old thread into the equation makes me suspect that it is quite possible this was less him pushing her ater she said no than it is a confused dude wondering what the hell this woman wants from him and a little bit frustrated at being lead on. have we all forgotten that 1) she was not raped and 2) she herself said he respected her decision?
If someone said to me why don't I go over and watch a movie... I would actually presume that was what they meant
I think this is the difference between you and the majority in this thread. If 'someone' who is not your 'friend' is invited over to watch a movie as described in this scenerio, it's logical to presume that some romantic interlude is expected to occur and/or hope to develop. Doesn't necessarily mean that sex will take place, obviously. But unless both parties are dumb as fucking rocks, they both know full well what's going on. Of course when she says 'no' it should be over, but only because the sparks or what have you did not develop on her end..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
nobody anywhere in this thread has said that her choice of clothing or her behavior made it ok to rape her or that it entitled the man to have sex. nobody. several have noted, however, that if she was dressed provocatively and behaving flirtily, then it's really not unreasonable for the guy to have thought she wanted to fool around and to make a move. and there is nothing wrong with that. the clothing discussion only relates to that point. once she said no, nothing else matters and his behavior is inexcusable. his confusion is not though. given some of the inconsistencies in her story, i get the impression this was less him trying to force her to do anything and more him trying to figure out what the hell was going on.
Exactly correct, again. There is WAY too much overdramatic projecting going on here (cough...HH...cough ). Don't equate whatever personal situations you've been in with this one. You make it a personal argument and your logical perspective suffers.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
jesus you women... they are not judgments about her being a whore or having desires. they are questions about what REALLY happened. becos adding that old thread into the equation makes me suspect that it is quite possible this was less him pushing her ater she said no than it is a confused dude wondering what the hell this woman wants from him and a little bit frustrated at being lead on. have we all forgotten that 1) she was not raped and 2) she herself said he respected her decision?
It's this quick jump to the victim mentality that gives the REAL victims a bad name. If it weren't for these oversensitive women crying foul everytime a man tries to make a move, there wouldn't be as much skepticism about whether or not someone really is a victim. It's sick.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Exactly correct, again. There is WAY too much overdramatic projecting going on here (cough...HH...cough ). Don't equate whatever personal situations you've been in with this one. You make it a personal argument and your logical perspective suffers.
Gotta stick to the guns till the bitter end, no matter what is revealed and/or logically argued..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Exactly correct, again. There is WAY too much overdramatic projecting going on here (cough...HH...cough ). Don't equate whatever personal situations you've been in with this one. You make it a personal argument and your logical perspective suffers.
Huh? So I should go AGAINST all my experiences then? that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And yes, I've got myself into several stupid situations that turned out great. It's when I THOUGHT I was safe that I wasn't... and I'm not the only person in the world to have experienced something like that... far from it. So really and truly unless you become a fucking hermit, which I've no intentions of doing, you CAN'T be safe. I'm certainly not gonna change my ways.
I find it amusing that there are so many men on this thread telling us women what we should do and how we should feel... and confusing at the same time but yeh, I appreciate your opinions :rolleyes:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Gotta stick to the guns till the bitter end, no matter what is revealed and/or logically argued..
but what HAS been logically argued? Obviously I'm gonna go with my experiences on this one. I'm sure every alley way rape that gets reported to the guards is reported in the media... it's the ones that you DON'T hear about that some people seem to decide don't actually happen.
Too many ifs and buts in this thread. Clothing does not matter... full stop!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
but what HAS been logically argued? Obviously I'm gonna go with my experiences on this one. I'm sure every alley way rape that gets reported to the guards is reported in the media... it's the ones that you DON'T hear about that some people seem to decide don't actually happen.
Too many ifs and buts in this thread. Clothing does not matter... full stop!
Right about now, she's probably laughing at this thread while tickling the hot neighbor's yam bags..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Right about now, she's probably laughing at this thread while tickling the hot neighbor's yam bags..
Probably
I don't know the girl so I can't fill in the details for her. But this thread moved away from the one specific incident as soon as clothing and her behaviour was brought into it. Hence why I can't specifically refer to HER incident when I reply.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Huh? So I should go AGAINST all my experiences then? that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
No, but Tish isn't you, and this situation isn't the one you were involved in and the guy Tish had over wasn't the guy who tried to assault you. See what I mean? You're taking your situation and substituting this thread as an argument for what happened to you. Apologies if that's not the case, but it certainly seems like it from your posts. What happened to you was obviously bad and something you did not ask for. You didn't put yourself in a bad situation, you were at a party surrounded by many people. Etc, etc. What Tish did was plain stupid. You, as a girl, do NOT invite random guys to your house, otherwise you are playing with fire. Plain and simple. It's up to him to be a gentleman, but it's up to YOU not to put yourself in that situation. At least know the person well before taking a step like that. Common sense. And no, it's not the same as what happened with you, HH.
And yes, I've got myself into several stupid situations that turned out great. It's when I THOUGHT I was safe that I wasn't... and I'm not the only person in the world to have experienced something like that... far from it.
And that's all you can do. Put yourself in safe situations. It's a shame when something bad happens, it really is, no matter what situation you put yourself in. BUT, you can eliminate the risk by not being stupid, can't we agree on that? When did common sense go out the window?
So really and truly unless you become a fucking hermit, which I've no intentions of doing, you CAN'T be safe. I'm certainly not gonna change my ways.
Again, it's not about you, it's about Tish. Unless you walk down dark alleys by yourself or invite random dudes over to your house, I don't see anyone saying YOU should change your ways. This was my point about some people in this thread projecting their own lives. This is about Tish and her actions.
I find it amusing that there are so many men on this thread telling us women what we should do and how we should feel... and confusing at the same time but yeh, I appreciate your opinions :rolleyes:
Again with the man vs. woman victim mentality. What IS with that??? I would say the same thing to a guy. Don't park your new car in a shoddy neighborhood, don't walk through the ghetto at 3am. And women shouldn't invite strange guys over to their house to 'watch videos' when they know that guy likes them. I'm in no way saying it invites rape, but don't be surprised that the guy is confused and tries to make a move. This isn't man vs. woman, this is common sense vs. stupidity.
And just to join in the fun: :rolleyes:
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
I don't know the girl so I can't fill in the details for her. But this thread moved away from the one specific incident as soon as clothing and her behaviour was brought into it. Hence why I can't specifically refer to HER incident when I reply.
and nobody in here has used her clothing or behavior to say it was justifiable to rape her or force sex upon her, despite all your best efforts to project that view onto the men in here.
all that has been said is that the circumstances here (a late night phone call to an almost-stranger inviting him to her house alone on a snowy night to watch a movie) could very well have lead him to reasonably think this was a booty call and him putting the moves on her is not a big deal. her clothes go directly to whether or not he was reading things right. if a girl i barely know calls me out of the blue and says "im cold and lonely, wanna come over to my place and curl up on my couch for a movie" and i get there and she's wearing the outfit from "slutty schoolgirls 6"... i dont think think id be crazy to figure i was probly going to get laid. that is the only reason clothing was brought up; becos some posters were acting from the very beginning like he was a pig from the moment he tried to kiss her, not just becos he wouldnt take no for an answer.
everyone universally agrees it is wrong that he wouldnt take no for an answer. though im beginning to doubt that is what truly happened based on her other posts.
Too many ifs and buts in this thread. Clothing does not matter... full stop!
I haven't seen anyone post in this thread that has said, "Well, she deserved it..." or "If a girl dresses provocatively then she should expect to be assaulted..."
I've read all 19 pages of this mess... I agree with soulsinging 150%: as soon as she says no, then you stop. The guy obviously didn't want to admit defeat and whined and begged like a little bitch for 15 minutes afterward. That's wrong.
But you really have to step back here and take a look at this situation... she invites the guy over (a guy that she really doesn't know) to watch movies, alone, in her apartment. She puts on some hot clothes and waits for him to arrive. He gets there, sees her looking hot and sees the dark apartment. What in the FUCK do you think he's going to assume? Every signal is there. Imagine if I went to a gay bar (as a straight guy), bought a guy a ton of drinks, danced all night with him, and then punched him in the mouth when he tried to kiss me at the end of the night. If you send out signals, don't get pissed if someone picks up on them and acts.
And that's really what I think the big picture is here... using better judgement. I don't walk in downtown Detroit at 2am counting my money in my wallet. I don't drink 12 beers at the bar and then drive home.
No, but Tish isn't you, and this situation isn't the one you were involved in and the guy Tish had over wasn't the guy who tried to assault you. See what I mean? You're taking your situation and substituting this thread as an argument for what happened to you. Apologies if that's not the case, but it certainly seems like it from your posts. What happened to you was obviously bad and something you did not ask for. You didn't put yourself in a bad situation, you were at a party surrounded by many people. Etc, etc. What Tish did was plain stupid. You, as a girl, do NOT invite random guys to your house, otherwise you are playing with fire. Plain and simple. It's up to him to be a gentleman, but it's up to YOU not to put yourself in that situation. At least know the person well before taking a step like that. Common sense. And no, it's not the same as what happened with you, HH.
And that's all you can do. Put yourself in safe situations. It's a shame when something bad happens, it really is, no matter what situation you put yourself in. BUT, you can eliminate the risk by not being stupid, can't we agree on that? When did common sense go out the window?
Again, it's not about you, it's about Tish. Unless you walk down dark alleys by yourself or invite random dudes over to your house, I don't see anyone saying YOU should change your ways. This was my point about some people in this thread projecting their own lives. This is about Tish and her actions.
Again with the man vs. woman victim mentality. What IS with that??? I would say the same thing to a guy. Don't park your new car in a shoddy neighborhood, don't walk through the ghetto at 3am. And women shouldn't invite strange guys over to their house to 'watch videos' when they know that guy likes them. I'm in no way saying it invites rape, but don't be surprised that the guy is confused and tries to make a move. This isn't man vs. woman, this is common sense vs. stupidity.
And just to join in the fun: :rolleyes:
I replied to the champ about why I can't reply regarding tish's situation... but so what... are you all able to guess or speculate about what happened without anyone defending?
And in that situation you're right, my situation wasn't like that. but there have been others and stuff I no longer talk about here since I've feckin MET ya all now so yep, you can become a victim and live your life accordingly OR you can choose to live it as you like. I choose the latter... sorry if that's just me asking for it but we all have different opinions and different ways of doing things and that's just mine. And it's not as if I'll choose the alley above the well lit busy street... BUT there have been occasions where the alley is the only option and I'm not gonna ask someone to come with me. I'm just not gonna live like that.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
and nobody in here has used her clothing or behavior to say it was justifiable to rape her or force sex upon her, despite all your best efforts to project that view onto the men in here.
all that has been said is that the circumstances here (a late night phone call to an almost-stranger inviting him to her house alone on a snowy night to watch a movie) could very well have lead him to reasonably think this was a booty call and him putting the moves on her is not a big deal. her clothes go directly to whether or not he was reading things right. if a girl i barely know calls me out of the blue and says "im cold and lonely, wanna come over to my place and curl up on my couch for a movie" and i get there and she's wearing the outfit from "slutty schoolgirls 6"... i dont think think id be crazy to figure i was probly going to get laid. that is the only reason clothing was brought up; becos some posters were acting from the very beginning like he was a pig from the moment he tried to kiss her, not just becos he wouldnt take no for an answer.
everyone universally agrees it is wrong that he wouldnt take no for an answer. though im beginning to doubt that is what truly happened based on her other posts.
you've said this several times and I've agreed with ya... but then you reply further with more ifs and buts... and well basically there's just too many of em.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I haven't seen anyone post in this thread that has said, "Well, she deserved it..." or "If a girl dresses provocatively then she should expect to be assaulted..."
I've read all 19 pages of this mess... I agree with soulsinging 150%: as soon as she says no, then you stop. The guy obviously didn't want to admit defeat and whined and begged like a little bitch for 15 minutes afterward. That's wrong.
But you really have to step back here and take a look at this situation... she invites the guy over (a guy that she really doesn't know) to watch movies, alone, in her apartment. She puts on some hot clothes and waits for him to arrive. He gets there, sees her looking hot and sees the dark apartment. What in the FUCK do you think he's going to assume? Every signal is there. Imagine if I went to a gay bar (as a straight guy), bought a guy a ton of drinks, danced all night with him, and then punched him in the mouth when he tried to kiss me at the end of the night. If you send out signals, don't get pissed if someone picks up on them and acts.
And that's really what I think the big picture is here... using better judgement. I don't walk in downtown Detroit at 2am counting my money in my wallet. I don't drink 12 beers at the bar and then drive home.
:rolleyes: I give up.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I haven't seen anyone post in this thread that has said, "Well, she deserved it..." or "If a girl dresses provocatively then she should expect to be assaulted..."
She had some hot clothes on? Where is that stated? And again.... would it make a difference?
thank you... its been implied way too much in this thread.
Nobody's come out and said 'it makes not one bit of difference what she was wearing' and left it at that. It's all 'of course it doesn't matter what she was wearing... BUT...' and then followed by a further 3 paragraphs
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
thank you... its been implied way too much in this thread.
Nobody's come out and said 'it makes not one bit of difference what she was wearing' and left it at that. It's all 'of course it doesn't matter what she was wearing... BUT...' and then followed by a further 3 paragraphs
Most of these posts involving what she was wearing do not mean that her choice of clothes is a justification for a man to rape or force himself on her. They're saying that her choice of clothes may have been reason for him to think she was into him.
She had some hot clothes on? Where is that stated? And again.... would it make a difference?
it's not stated, becos she disappeared after she said it. why? it makes a difference, becos as i've said, i suspect she WAS trying to look good and seduce the neighbor and just got cold feet. which is fine, she has every right and it does not excuse his behavior after she said no. but it does make his behavior a bit more understandable and it's certainly a far cry from the rape claim in the subject. it's also pretty fucked up and a big fuck you to REAL rape victims to claim rape when all that happened was she invited a guy over, had second thoughts about seducing him, and then he left. and the reason we don't know what she's wearing is becos she won't say, i suspect becos she would have to admit what really happened and it's easier on her guilt and embarrassment to blame him and claim he assaulted her than to admit she set up the situation and then backed out.
thank you... its been implied way too much in this thread.
Nobody's come out and said 'it makes not one bit of difference what she was wearing' and left it at that. It's all 'of course it doesn't matter what she was wearing... BUT...' and then followed by a further 3 paragraphs
I think the "3 paragraphs" are to clarify that it is in response to the people who implied that he was a terrible person because he went to her house with the thought of sex in his mind. If you ignore the context and just attack the quotes, it leads to 20 pages of miscommunication.
The arguments that:
1) He's a bad person for thinking sex was a likelihood
and
2) He's a bad person for what happened after the rejection
...are two different things.
I have not seen any person in this thread justify the non-rape that did(n't) happen, and I would not defend anybody if I thought they were defending something(that apparently didn't happen...) like that.
thank you... its been implied way too much in this thread.
Nobody's come out and said 'it makes not one bit of difference what she was wearing' and left it at that. It's all 'of course it doesn't matter what she was wearing... BUT...' and then followed by a further 3 paragraphs
and this is why i keep posting, becos you still don't get it. there are 2 different situations here.
1. everything leading up to her saying no.
2. everything that happened after her saying no.
the clothing matters very much with respect to number 1... it explains why he felt as he did and combined with her credibility issues and general evasions, might clarify what her intentions were.
it does not matter at all with respect to number 2... no is no. period.
Comments
nobody anywhere in this thread has said that her choice of clothing or her behavior made it ok to rape her or that it entitled the man to have sex. nobody. several have noted, however, that if she was dressed provocatively and behaving flirtily, then it's really not unreasonable for the guy to have thought she wanted to fool around and to make a move. and there is nothing wrong with that. the clothing discussion only relates to that point. once she said no, nothing else matters and his behavior is inexcusable. his confusion is not though. given some of the inconsistencies in her story, i get the impression this was less him trying to force her to do anything and more him trying to figure out what the hell was going on.
this is bullshit. plain and simple. all i said is it makes me question if the story she's telling now is truly "i invited an acquaintance over and he tried to rape me" or rather if it's "i decided to go for it with the hot neighbor and chickened out." either one is fine and neither makes it ok for him to rape her (which HE DIDNT... you can't have a rape without a rape!). but it does means perhaps this isn't as traumatic as she makes it out to be. and crying false rape becos you're guilty and embarrassed is pretty crappy if you ask me.
no, most guys want to fuck all attractive women. a guy can be friends with an ugger, no problem. but if you're attractive, you cannot trust any guy. he will sleep with you if he has the chance. however, most will take no for an answer. it's a small minority that won't.
No....a guy you DON'T know very well. Don't put yourself in stupid situations, use common sense, etc etc. There's a lot of over dramatic rationalizing going on for this girl who put herself in a stupid situation. If I park my new sports car in an unknown part of town, which turns out to be the ghetto, and it gets stolen...well? Sure, it's the criminals fault, and he should be punished. Hopefully that goes without saying. But, I doubt I would get much sympathy from people for my idiotic actions. What am I doing parking my new car on the street of some shady neighborhood? I'd LIKE to believe that everyone is nice, but crime happens. It's unfortunate and it's up to me to make good decisions to avoid it as much as I can. Don't use the victim mentality to cover up stupidity.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Bingo!
nowadays hits you when you're young
jesus you women... they are not judgments about her being a whore or having desires. they are questions about what REALLY happened. becos adding that old thread into the equation makes me suspect that it is quite possible this was less him pushing her ater she said no than it is a confused dude wondering what the hell this woman wants from him and a little bit frustrated at being lead on. have we all forgotten that 1) she was not raped and 2) she herself said he respected her decision?
I think this is the difference between you and the majority in this thread. If 'someone' who is not your 'friend' is invited over to watch a movie as described in this scenerio, it's logical to presume that some romantic interlude is expected to occur and/or hope to develop. Doesn't necessarily mean that sex will take place, obviously. But unless both parties are dumb as fucking rocks, they both know full well what's going on. Of course when she says 'no' it should be over, but only because the sparks or what have you did not develop on her end..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Exactly correct, again. There is WAY too much overdramatic projecting going on here (cough...HH...cough
nowadays hits you when you're young
It's this quick jump to the victim mentality that gives the REAL victims a bad name. If it weren't for these oversensitive women crying foul everytime a man tries to make a move, there wouldn't be as much skepticism about whether or not someone really is a victim. It's sick.
nowadays hits you when you're young
gosh...
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Gotta stick to the guns till the bitter end, no matter what is revealed and/or logically argued..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
I find it amusing that there are so many men on this thread telling us women what we should do and how we should feel... and confusing at the same time
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Too many ifs and buts in this thread. Clothing does not matter... full stop!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Right about now, she's probably laughing at this thread while tickling the hot neighbor's yam bags..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
I don't know the girl so I can't fill in the details for her. But this thread moved away from the one specific incident as soon as clothing and her behaviour was brought into it. Hence why I can't specifically refer to HER incident when I reply.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
yam bags? lol
No, but Tish isn't you, and this situation isn't the one you were involved in and the guy Tish had over wasn't the guy who tried to assault you. See what I mean? You're taking your situation and substituting this thread as an argument for what happened to you. Apologies if that's not the case, but it certainly seems like it from your posts. What happened to you was obviously bad and something you did not ask for. You didn't put yourself in a bad situation, you were at a party surrounded by many people. Etc, etc. What Tish did was plain stupid. You, as a girl, do NOT invite random guys to your house, otherwise you are playing with fire. Plain and simple. It's up to him to be a gentleman, but it's up to YOU not to put yourself in that situation. At least know the person well before taking a step like that. Common sense. And no, it's not the same as what happened with you, HH.
And that's all you can do. Put yourself in safe situations. It's a shame when something bad happens, it really is, no matter what situation you put yourself in. BUT, you can eliminate the risk by not being stupid, can't we agree on that? When did common sense go out the window?
Again, it's not about you, it's about Tish. Unless you walk down dark alleys by yourself or invite random dudes over to your house, I don't see anyone saying YOU should change your ways. This was my point about some people in this thread projecting their own lives. This is about Tish and her actions.
Again with the man vs. woman victim mentality. What IS with that??? I would say the same thing to a guy. Don't park your new car in a shoddy neighborhood, don't walk through the ghetto at 3am. And women shouldn't invite strange guys over to their house to 'watch videos' when they know that guy likes them. I'm in no way saying it invites rape, but don't be surprised that the guy is confused and tries to make a move. This isn't man vs. woman, this is common sense vs. stupidity.
And just to join in the fun:
nowadays hits you when you're young
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
and nobody in here has used her clothing or behavior to say it was justifiable to rape her or force sex upon her, despite all your best efforts to project that view onto the men in here.
all that has been said is that the circumstances here (a late night phone call to an almost-stranger inviting him to her house alone on a snowy night to watch a movie) could very well have lead him to reasonably think this was a booty call and him putting the moves on her is not a big deal. her clothes go directly to whether or not he was reading things right. if a girl i barely know calls me out of the blue and says "im cold and lonely, wanna come over to my place and curl up on my couch for a movie" and i get there and she's wearing the outfit from "slutty schoolgirls 6"... i dont think think id be crazy to figure i was probly going to get laid. that is the only reason clothing was brought up; becos some posters were acting from the very beginning like he was a pig from the moment he tried to kiss her, not just becos he wouldnt take no for an answer.
everyone universally agrees it is wrong that he wouldnt take no for an answer. though im beginning to doubt that is what truly happened based on her other posts.
I haven't seen anyone post in this thread that has said, "Well, she deserved it..." or "If a girl dresses provocatively then she should expect to be assaulted..."
I've read all 19 pages of this mess... I agree with soulsinging 150%: as soon as she says no, then you stop. The guy obviously didn't want to admit defeat and whined and begged like a little bitch for 15 minutes afterward. That's wrong.
But you really have to step back here and take a look at this situation... she invites the guy over (a guy that she really doesn't know) to watch movies, alone, in her apartment. She puts on some hot clothes and waits for him to arrive. He gets there, sees her looking hot and sees the dark apartment. What in the FUCK do you think he's going to assume? Every signal is there. Imagine if I went to a gay bar (as a straight guy), bought a guy a ton of drinks, danced all night with him, and then punched him in the mouth when he tried to kiss me at the end of the night. If you send out signals, don't get pissed if someone picks up on them and acts.
And that's really what I think the big picture is here... using better judgement. I don't walk in downtown Detroit at 2am counting my money in my wallet. I don't drink 12 beers at the bar and then drive home.
And in that situation you're right, my situation wasn't like that. but there have been others and stuff I no longer talk about here since I've feckin MET ya all now
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
that's not a very enightend statement
you know that most wife beaters are very kind and charasmatic in public
and never even start the abuse until after the marriage
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Not directly, but implied:
She had some hot clothes on? Where is that stated? And again.... would it make a difference?
Nobody's come out and said 'it makes not one bit of difference what she was wearing' and left it at that. It's all 'of course it doesn't matter what she was wearing... BUT...' and then followed by a further 3 paragraphs
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Most of these posts involving what she was wearing do not mean that her choice of clothes is a justification for a man to rape or force himself on her. They're saying that her choice of clothes may have been reason for him to think she was into him.
it's not stated, becos she disappeared after she said it. why? it makes a difference, becos as i've said, i suspect she WAS trying to look good and seduce the neighbor and just got cold feet. which is fine, she has every right and it does not excuse his behavior after she said no. but it does make his behavior a bit more understandable and it's certainly a far cry from the rape claim in the subject. it's also pretty fucked up and a big fuck you to REAL rape victims to claim rape when all that happened was she invited a guy over, had second thoughts about seducing him, and then he left. and the reason we don't know what she's wearing is becos she won't say, i suspect becos she would have to admit what really happened and it's easier on her guilt and embarrassment to blame him and claim he assaulted her than to admit she set up the situation and then backed out.
I think the "3 paragraphs" are to clarify that it is in response to the people who implied that he was a terrible person because he went to her house with the thought of sex in his mind. If you ignore the context and just attack the quotes, it leads to 20 pages of miscommunication.
The arguments that:
1) He's a bad person for thinking sex was a likelihood
and
2) He's a bad person for what happened after the rejection
...are two different things.
I have not seen any person in this thread justify the non-rape that did(n't) happen, and I would not defend anybody if I thought they were defending something(that apparently didn't happen...) like that.
and this is why i keep posting, becos you still don't get it. there are 2 different situations here.
1. everything leading up to her saying no.
2. everything that happened after her saying no.
the clothing matters very much with respect to number 1... it explains why he felt as he did and combined with her credibility issues and general evasions, might clarify what her intentions were.
it does not matter at all with respect to number 2... no is no. period.