Most of these posts involving what she was wearing do not mean that her choice of clothes is a justification for a man to rape or force himself on her. They're saying that her choice of clothes may have been reason for him to think she was into him.
well since we MUST stick so implicitly to the original post apparently, what's that got to do with anything? Because her post suggested that her clothes WEREN'T like that at all.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think you're still thinking in those utopic terms I was referring. Of course it is MY job and anyone elses job out there to NOT break the law (as I said), if you want to be a part of this society. Unfortunately you can't rely on everyone to do their job (ESPECIALLY people you do not know). The only thing you can control, is yourself, which means avoiding situations that are risky, and not being naive and stupid to how the world works. Rationality and thinking do not always override biology and history as you may want it to. That is why rape, murder, etc etc will never, ever go away, no matter how much you want it to.
Exactly why I said it's good judgment to avoid risky situations - clearly I understand our society is not a utopia or I would be out of a job I just think it's important to be clear on whose responsibility it is to avoid crime - it rests solely on the perp - not the victim. That's not to say one shouldn't be aware of risks and make efforts to avoid those risks - that's just good sound judgment. And biology is not an excuse to disregard someone's clear boundaries. Yes, we may have drives - we all do, but we also have the ability to make rational and informed choices. Rape and murder don't still exist because of biology - they exist because of choices to disregard the laws of society and to give into impulses. I may have an urge to eat a pint of cookie dough ice cream - but I also have the ability to make a choice not to give into that urge.
I think the "3 paragraphs" are to clarify that it is in response to the people who implied that he was a terrible person because he went to her house with the thought of sex in his mind. If you ignore the context and just attack the quotes, it leads to 20 pages of miscommunication.
The arguments that:
1) He's a bad person for thinking sex was a likelihood
and
2) He's a bad person for what happened after the rejection
...are two different things.
I have not seen any person in this thread justify the non-rape that did(n't) happen, and I would not defend anybody if I thought they were defending something(that apparently didn't happen...) like that.
that's exactly what i was trying to say. the buts and ifs go to argument number 1, which is a bullshit argument.
thank you... its been implied way too much in this thread.
Nobody's come out and said 'it makes not one bit of difference what she was wearing' and left it at that. It's all 'of course it doesn't matter what she was wearing... BUT...' and then followed by a further 3 paragraphs
Then what the fuck was she wearing? Her silence is deafening at this point. She also stated that Suitor #2 claimed she was "asking for it" because of the way she was dressed, which leads me to believe that she wasn't wearing baggy jeans and a XXL hoodie with a snow parka over it.
Look, rape is wrong. It's always wrong. Not respecting a "NO" is always wrong. But IMO, the OP put herself in a bad spot here. The dude was obviously out of line after taking 15 minutes to beg and plead after she said no, but I don't think it's out of line for him to assume this might've been a booty call.
well since we MUST stick so implicitly to the original post apparently, what's that got to do with anything? Because her post suggested that her clothes WEREN'T like that at all.
What it has to do with anything is that most people here aren't saying, and haven't said, that if she was dressed provocatively it is a reasonable excuse for attempted rape or assault or whatever.
Most have speculated on potential dress in terms of where the guy got the idea she was interested.
well since we MUST stick so implicitly to the original post apparently, what's that got to do with anything? Because her post suggested that her clothes WEREN'T like that at all.
i felt her post suggested the opposite. she was evasive and only would say it was clothes she wore comfortably around the house, which could mean anything. it felt like she was trying to avoid an answer. if she had been wearing a ratty old sweatsuit, then she would have out and said that. and the fact that she drew special attention to him remarking on her clothes implies that there is something going on there she's not saying.
That is why for my entire life, I've always had very BIG dogs as my constant companions, starting when I went away to college! No worries no matter who comes in your home. I was attacked when I was 14 by my group of so called friends, nothing happened because someone came and helped me....I learned very early on to not trust anyone.
oxc
~*LIVE~LOVE~LAUGH*~
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
Then what the fuck was she wearing? Her silence is deafening at this point. She also stated that Suitor #2 claimed she was "asking for it" because of the way she was dressed, which leads me to believe that she wasn't wearing baggy jeans and a XXL hoodie with a snow parka over it.
Look, rape is wrong. It's always wrong. Not respecting a "NO" is always wrong. But IMO, the OP put herself in a bad spot here. The dude was obviously out of line after taking 15 minutes to beg and plead after she said no, but I don't think it's out of line for him to assume this might've been a booty call.
We DON'T know... why is it ok for you lot to speculate and get completely carried away into a conversation on whether or not clothing matters in these cases.
I'm sorry but I still can't agree that you're not supposed to invite somebody over. And you never assume anything!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i felt her post suggested the opposite. she was evasive and only would say it was clothes she wore comfortably around the house, which could mean anything. it felt like she was trying to avoid an answer. if she had been wearing a ratty old sweatsuit, then she would have out and said that. and the fact that she drew special attention to him remarking on her clothes implies that there is something going on there she's not saying.
but you said it doesn't matter? That's what I don't get... you all imply that it doesn't matter what she wore at all... but yet you all really need to know what exactly she WAS wearing?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
it's not stated, becos she disappeared after she said it. why? it makes a difference, becos as i've said, i suspect she WAS trying to look good and seduce the neighbor and just got cold feet. which is fine, she has every right and it does not excuse his behavior after she said no. but it does make his behavior a bit more understandable and it's certainly a far cry from the rape claim in the subject. it's also pretty fucked up and a big fuck you to REAL rape victims to claim rape when all that happened was she invited a guy over, had second thoughts about seducing him, and then he left. and the reason we don't know what she's wearing is becos she won't say, i suspect becos she would have to admit what really happened and it's easier on her guilt and embarrassment to blame him and claim he assaulted her than to admit she set up the situation and then backed out.
Exactly what I've been trying to say. This victim mentality is a slap in the face to the real victims. Sick attention whoring.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
I'm sorry but I still can't agree that you're not supposed to invite somebody over. And you never assume anything!
..and again, since we're going in circles..I think this is the difference between you and the majority in this thread. If 'someone' who is not your 'friend' is invited over to watch a movie as described in this scenerio, it's logical to presume that some romantic interlude is expected to occur and/or hope to develop. Doesn't necessarily mean that sex will take place, obviously. But unless both parties are dumb as fucking rocks, they both know full well what's going on. Of course when she says 'no' it should be over, but only because the sparks or what have you did not develop on her end..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
I'm sorry but I still can't agree that you're not supposed to invite somebody over. And you never assume anything!
If you as a woman invite a strange man over to 'watch videos', you are assuming the risk of whatever moves he makes, right or wrong. It's not that you're 'not supposed to invite someone over', it's that 'you should use good judgement with whom you invite over and when'. Tish obviously didn't do this.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
If you as a woman invite a strange man over to 'watch videos', you are assuming the risk of whatever moves he makes, right or wrong. It's not that you're 'not supposed to invite someone over', it's that 'you should use good judgement with whom you invite over and when'. Tish obviously didn't do this.
This is so fucking dumb, why else would she invite this fucker(acquaintance) over? She can't be that stupid..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Exactly why I said it's good judgment to avoid risky situations - clearly I understand our society is not a utopia or I would be out of a job I just think it's important to be clear on whose responsibility it is to avoid crime - it rests solely on the perp - not the victim. That's not to say one shouldn't be aware of risks and make efforts to avoid those risks - that's just good sound judgment. And biology is not an excuse to disregard someone's clear boundaries. Yes, we may have drives - we all do, but we also have the ability to make rational and informed choices. Rape and murder don't still exist because of biology - they exist because of choices to disregard the laws of society and to give into impulses. I may have an urge to eat a pint of cookie dough ice cream - but I also have the ability to make a choice not to give into that urge.
Yes, yes, it is yours and mine responsibility not to infringe on the right of others. Unfortunately, that excuse won't work as I'm getting knifed at 3am in the ghetto. 'But, but....what about rationality and informed choices?!?!'. I doubt the mugger would give 2 shits. I and you may have good decision making, but hoping that everyone else does, or expecting them to, does do us a whole lot of good, namely when around people we do not know, correct? Clearly biology is no excuse, in our society, but it does help to explain a root cause for actions and a template for understanding human behavior which can better serve our decision making. Or in this case, our ability to avoid negative situations.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
We DON'T know... why is it ok for you lot to speculate and get completely carried away into a conversation on whether or not clothing matters in these cases.
I'm sorry but I still can't agree that you're not supposed to invite somebody over. And you never assume anything!
Clothing doesn't matter in a rape case. Rape is 100% wrong and there's no "but" or justification for it. This was not a rape case. This is a case of someone getting the wrong impression and then acting like a douchebag after his advances were rebuffed. How did he get the wrong impression, though? We've been able to establish that she:
-- didn't know the guy very well.
-- invited him over to watch a movie (just the two of them)
and she may have been dressed in something other than a tracksuit.
You cannot defend or justify his actions after she told him no, but yo umay be able to understand his thoughts during the course of events leading up to it and what might've prompted him to get the idea that she was into him. THAT'S the root of the discussion here IMO.
Yes, yes, it is yours and mine responsibility not to infringe on the right of others. Unfortunately, that excuse won't work as I'm getting knifed at 3am in the ghetto. 'But, but....what about rationality and informed choices?!?!'. I doubt the mugger would give 2 shits. I and you may have good decision making, but hoping that everyone else does, or expecting them to, does do us a whole lot of good, namely when around people we do not know, correct? Clearly biology is no excuse, in our society, but it does help to explain a root cause for actions and a template for understanding human behavior which can better serve our decision making. Or in this case, our ability to avoid negative situations.
it doesn't make a bit of difference if you know them or not! How many times do I have to say this... so unless I go down the muslim route of refusing to be alone with a man at ALL... there's just no point.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Yes, yes, it is yours and mine responsibility not to infringe on the right of others. Unfortunately, that excuse won't work as I'm getting knifed at 3am in the ghetto. 'But, but....what about rationality and informed choices?!?!'. I doubt the mugger would give 2 shits. I and you may have good decision making, but hoping that everyone else does, or expecting them to, does do us a whole lot of good, namely when around people we do not know, correct? Clearly biology is no excuse, in our society, but it does help to explain a root cause for actions and a template for understanding human behavior which can better serve our decision making. Or in this case, our ability to avoid negative situations.
We're talking about 2 different things here. Yes - we need to take steps to keep ourselves safer - but you can do everything right - you can take every possible step to keep yourself safe and that doesn't mean you won't be a victim - and it doesn't mean that if you make some poor choices that being a victim is your fault. Of course the mugger doesn't give 2 shits - but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to bear the responsibility, or that the victim is to blame, and it doesn't mean biology caused him to steal a car. It's one thing to understand root causes, it doesn't mean we hold people less responsible for breaking laws or violating rights.
I'm sorry but I still can't agree that you're not supposed to invite somebody over. And you never assume anything!
you are just about the ONLY person here who is stubbornly refusing to admit this sounds like a booty call. every american girl on here even thinks it sounds like it and is unsurprised that is how he saw it. but just to make sure, let me get this straight... you commonly call up guys you barely know late on lonely weekend nights and invite them over just to watch a movie alone with you?
but you said it doesn't matter? That's what I don't get... you all imply that it doesn't matter what she wore at all... but yet you all really need to know what exactly she WAS wearing?
jesus christ, has that liffy water made you brain dead? i have said it only matters depending on the situation. if you are saying he tried to rape or sexually harass her, no what she is wearing does not matter. that is wrong. if you are saying he is a bad person for thinking she invited him over for a booty call, then what she is wearing does matter in terms of how he got that impression. do you guys even know what a booty call is over there?
You cannot defend or justify his actions after she told him no, but yo umay be able to understand his thoughts during the course of events leading up to it and what might've prompted him to get the idea that she was into him. THAT'S the root of the discussion here IMO.
According to her, he respected her "no's." I mean, in this cuddly 'movie time' scenerio, I would completely understand him saying something like 'come on, not even a fucking reach around or something?' Then maybe he was apologizing for the remainder of the 15 minutes..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
you are just about the ONLY person here who is stubbornly refusing to admit this sounds like a booty call. every american girl on here even thinks it sounds like it and is unsurprised that is how he saw it. but just to make sure, let me get this straight... you commonly call up guys you barely know late on lonely weekend nights and invite them over just to watch a movie alone with you?
jesus christ, has that liffy water made you brain dead? i have said it only matters depending on the situation. if you are saying he tried to rape or sexually harass her, no what she is wearing does not matter. that is wrong. if you are saying he is a bad person for thinking she invited him over for a booty call, then what she is wearing does matter in terms of how he got that impression. do you guys even know what a booty call is over there?
perhaps American being the operative word... I think I made the connection earlier that it seems to be the Americans who would make that assumption... it also seems to be Americans who can't understand being friends with the opposite gender.
If I don't agree with something I'm not gonna change my mind just cos I'm the only one thinking differently
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
If I don't agree with something I'm not gonna change my mind just cos I'm the only one thinking differently
Isn't this (particular) arguement about the perception of others, though?
If people say that doing "A" will make people think "B," you can't say that is untrue just because it doesn't reflect your own intentions when doing "A". The entire concept is contingent on a 3rd party.
perhaps American being the operative word... I think I made the connection earlier that it seems to be the Americans who would make that assumption... it also seems to be Americans who can't understand being friends with the opposite gender.
I think it could be an american thing too. I have lots of american friends like I have lots of European friends and have lived in the US and in various european countries. They do think differently when it comes to the sexes, what the 'signals' (or lack thereof) can be and what friendship/hanging out with each other may be.
can't understand being friends with the opposite gender.
If I don't agree with something I'm not gonna change my mind just cos I'm the only one thinking differently
thats fair if you dont wana change your mind, but their points are based on the fact that this girl didnt seem to know the guy, and in no way has she described him as what you or i would regard a "friend".
the point at this stage is that youre right regarding asking a FRIEND over, sure they are not going to automatically assume "SEX!"....but this girl didnt know him at all other than maybe a few exercise sessions or so....then look at it from the point of view of him recieving an invite over for a quiet nite in...Not nearly as likely to be night of actually watching movies, much more likely to be a booty call.
jesus you women... they are not judgments about her being a whore or having desires. they are questions about what REALLY happened. becos adding that old thread into the equation makes me suspect that it is quite possible this was less him pushing her ater she said no than it is a confused dude wondering what the hell this woman wants from him and a little bit frustrated at being lead on. have we all forgotten that 1) she was not raped and 2) she herself said he respected her decision?
I'd say he did everything but rape me. He said I was asking for it by the way I was dressed. And if I wouldn't do this, would I do that? And since I wouldn't do that, would I do this?
Let's say he was confused. The question is: Does that make it alright for him to ask such questions? While we don't know exactly what happened, it's safe to say the discussion should have ended at "no." Even if he was asking these questions (after she said "no") in the most logical, non-skeezy tone - trying to figure out how tish thinks and what her motivations are - those questions are still being asked to make her feel uncomfortable and break down that balance of power.
And what I'm saying is, no one asks for that. No one does something consciously thinking, "You know, I'd bet someone is going to come up to me and try to exert his control over me and try to make me feel uncomfortable." That is brought upon someone.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
it doesn't make a bit of difference if you know them or not! How many times do I have to say this... so unless I go down the muslim route of refusing to be alone with a man at ALL... there's just no point.
If you as a woman want to invite complete strangers over to your house to watch videos, then good luck is all I have to say. I'd recommend getting to know them a bit first, but that's just crazy ol' me.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
those questions are still being asked to make her feel uncomfortable and break down that balance of power.
And what I'm saying is, no one asks for that. No one does something consciously thinking, "You know, I'd bet someone is going to come up to me and try to exert his control over me and try to make me feel uncomfortable." That is brought upon someone.
id agree....and that can come about when you are in the situation that they two people are alone, which as pointed out by Helen and others earlier, can happen when youre out in a street or party etc, and even if you take great care....
am i following that? cos i didnt get the gist of that Balance of Power point earlier. is it just based on when the man and woman are alone and the man tries to exert himself or break her down?
We're talking about 2 different things here. Yes - we need to take steps to keep ourselves safer - but you can do everything right - you can take every possible step to keep yourself safe and that doesn't mean you won't be a victim - and it doesn't mean that if you make some poor choices that being a victim is your fault. Of course the mugger doesn't give 2 shits - but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to bear the responsibility, or that the victim is to blame, and it doesn't mean biology caused him to steal a car. It's one thing to understand root causes, it doesn't mean we hold people less responsible for breaking laws or violating rights.
Nobody's said anything about not holding people responsible for their actions. Where have I said that or even implied that in the least? My point is that those things happen, so why put yourself in that situation that increases the risk of it happening? Regardless of the person who's at fault, you should have a good enough head on your shoulders to know what kind of situation you are putting yourself into and assessing risks. I feel like I'm speaking Greek or something, is it really that foreign an idea? Of course things happen when you least expect it. Of course a well known person can assault you. But of all the risks that are inherent in everyday life, WHY would you want to go around increasing those risks by doing stupid shit? It has nothing to do with holding the rest of the world responsible for things that happen, it's about holding ourselves responsible for our own choices and actions. I can have someone arrested for stealing my car in the ghetto, of course. But I'll also label myself an idiot for parking there and leaving it overnight.
24 years old, mid-life crisis
nowadays hits you when you're young
Comments
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
that's exactly what i was trying to say. the buts and ifs go to argument number 1, which is a bullshit argument.
Then what the fuck was she wearing? Her silence is deafening at this point. She also stated that Suitor #2 claimed she was "asking for it" because of the way she was dressed, which leads me to believe that she wasn't wearing baggy jeans and a XXL hoodie with a snow parka over it.
Look, rape is wrong. It's always wrong. Not respecting a "NO" is always wrong. But IMO, the OP put herself in a bad spot here. The dude was obviously out of line after taking 15 minutes to beg and plead after she said no, but I don't think it's out of line for him to assume this might've been a booty call.
Most have speculated on potential dress in terms of where the guy got the idea she was interested.
Bingo.
i felt her post suggested the opposite. she was evasive and only would say it was clothes she wore comfortably around the house, which could mean anything. it felt like she was trying to avoid an answer. if she had been wearing a ratty old sweatsuit, then she would have out and said that. and the fact that she drew special attention to him remarking on her clothes implies that there is something going on there she's not saying.
oxc
*May the Peace of the Wilderness be with YOU*
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
— Unknown
I'm sorry but I still can't agree that you're not supposed to invite somebody over. And you never assume anything!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Exactly what I've been trying to say. This victim mentality is a slap in the face to the real victims. Sick attention whoring.
nowadays hits you when you're young
..and again, since we're going in circles..I think this is the difference between you and the majority in this thread. If 'someone' who is not your 'friend' is invited over to watch a movie as described in this scenerio, it's logical to presume that some romantic interlude is expected to occur and/or hope to develop. Doesn't necessarily mean that sex will take place, obviously. But unless both parties are dumb as fucking rocks, they both know full well what's going on. Of course when she says 'no' it should be over, but only because the sparks or what have you did not develop on her end..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
If you as a woman invite a strange man over to 'watch videos', you are assuming the risk of whatever moves he makes, right or wrong. It's not that you're 'not supposed to invite someone over', it's that 'you should use good judgement with whom you invite over and when'. Tish obviously didn't do this.
nowadays hits you when you're young
This is so fucking dumb, why else would she invite this fucker(acquaintance) over? She can't be that stupid..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Yes, yes, it is yours and mine responsibility not to infringe on the right of others. Unfortunately, that excuse won't work as I'm getting knifed at 3am in the ghetto. 'But, but....what about rationality and informed choices?!?!'. I doubt the mugger would give 2 shits. I and you may have good decision making, but hoping that everyone else does, or expecting them to, does do us a whole lot of good, namely when around people we do not know, correct? Clearly biology is no excuse, in our society, but it does help to explain a root cause for actions and a template for understanding human behavior which can better serve our decision making. Or in this case, our ability to avoid negative situations.
nowadays hits you when you're young
Clothing doesn't matter in a rape case. Rape is 100% wrong and there's no "but" or justification for it. This was not a rape case. This is a case of someone getting the wrong impression and then acting like a douchebag after his advances were rebuffed. How did he get the wrong impression, though? We've been able to establish that she:
-- didn't know the guy very well.
-- invited him over to watch a movie (just the two of them)
and she may have been dressed in something other than a tracksuit.
You cannot defend or justify his actions after she told him no, but yo umay be able to understand his thoughts during the course of events leading up to it and what might've prompted him to get the idea that she was into him. THAT'S the root of the discussion here IMO.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
you are just about the ONLY person here who is stubbornly refusing to admit this sounds like a booty call. every american girl on here even thinks it sounds like it and is unsurprised that is how he saw it. but just to make sure, let me get this straight... you commonly call up guys you barely know late on lonely weekend nights and invite them over just to watch a movie alone with you?
jesus christ, has that liffy water made you brain dead? i have said it only matters depending on the situation. if you are saying he tried to rape or sexually harass her, no what she is wearing does not matter. that is wrong. if you are saying he is a bad person for thinking she invited him over for a booty call, then what she is wearing does matter in terms of how he got that impression. do you guys even know what a booty call is over there?
According to her, he respected her "no's." I mean, in this cuddly 'movie time' scenerio, I would completely understand him saying something like 'come on, not even a fucking reach around or something?' Then maybe he was apologizing for the remainder of the 15 minutes..
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
If I don't agree with something I'm not gonna change my mind just cos I'm the only one thinking differently
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Sex is fun. And perhaps you should move if you live next door to old men and young boys. Eye candy is fun too!
Isn't this (particular) arguement about the perception of others, though?
If people say that doing "A" will make people think "B," you can't say that is untrue just because it doesn't reflect your own intentions when doing "A". The entire concept is contingent on a 3rd party.
I think it could be an american thing too. I have lots of american friends like I have lots of European friends and have lived in the US and in various european countries. They do think differently when it comes to the sexes, what the 'signals' (or lack thereof) can be and what friendship/hanging out with each other may be.
thats fair if you dont wana change your mind, but their points are based on the fact that this girl didnt seem to know the guy, and in no way has she described him as what you or i would regard a "friend".
the point at this stage is that youre right regarding asking a FRIEND over, sure they are not going to automatically assume "SEX!"....but this girl didnt know him at all other than maybe a few exercise sessions or so....then look at it from the point of view of him recieving an invite over for a quiet nite in...Not nearly as likely to be night of actually watching movies, much more likely to be a booty call.
Let's say he was confused. The question is: Does that make it alright for him to ask such questions? While we don't know exactly what happened, it's safe to say the discussion should have ended at "no." Even if he was asking these questions (after she said "no") in the most logical, non-skeezy tone - trying to figure out how tish thinks and what her motivations are - those questions are still being asked to make her feel uncomfortable and break down that balance of power.
And what I'm saying is, no one asks for that. No one does something consciously thinking, "You know, I'd bet someone is going to come up to me and try to exert his control over me and try to make me feel uncomfortable." That is brought upon someone.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
All assumptions made by a certain type of person. Same people making the assumption she wore indecent clothes (dressed to provoke, on purpose), etc.
If you as a woman want to invite complete strangers over to your house to watch videos, then good luck is all I have to say. I'd recommend getting to know them a bit first, but that's just crazy ol' me.
nowadays hits you when you're young
id agree....and that can come about when you are in the situation that they two people are alone, which as pointed out by Helen and others earlier, can happen when youre out in a street or party etc, and even if you take great care....
am i following that? cos i didnt get the gist of that Balance of Power point earlier. is it just based on when the man and woman are alone and the man tries to exert himself or break her down?
Nobody's said anything about not holding people responsible for their actions. Where have I said that or even implied that in the least? My point is that those things happen, so why put yourself in that situation that increases the risk of it happening? Regardless of the person who's at fault, you should have a good enough head on your shoulders to know what kind of situation you are putting yourself into and assessing risks. I feel like I'm speaking Greek or something, is it really that foreign an idea? Of course things happen when you least expect it. Of course a well known person can assault you. But of all the risks that are inherent in everyday life, WHY would you want to go around increasing those risks by doing stupid shit? It has nothing to do with holding the rest of the world responsible for things that happen, it's about holding ourselves responsible for our own choices and actions. I can have someone arrested for stealing my car in the ghetto, of course. But I'll also label myself an idiot for parking there and leaving it overnight.
nowadays hits you when you're young