Let's say he was confused. The question is: Does that make it alright for him to ask such questions? While we don't know exactly what happened, it's safe to say the discussion should have ended at "no." Even if he was asking these questions (after she said "no") in the most logical, non-skeezy tone - trying to figure out how tish thinks and what her motivations are - those questions are still being asked to make her feel uncomfortable and break down that balance of power.
And what I'm saying is, no one asks for that. No one does something consciously thinking, "You know, I'd bet someone is going to come up to me and try to exert his control over me and try to make me feel uncomfortable." That is brought upon someone.
if that is what he asked, and i am skeptical about that. in that scenario, they are not being asked to make her uncomfortable, they are asked becos SHE made HIM feel uncomfortable by inviting him over, giving every reason for him to think it was a booty call, and then saying no. so he sits there feeling awkward and embarrassed and tried to figure out what is going on. i've been in the situation and the balance of power was on her side. yes, it should have ended at no. but depending on what actually happened (and i strongly doubt things happened as she describes) i would feel hard pressed to call him a rapist or even say he was sexually assaulting her. at least he was trying to get her consent rather than just trying to do all those things and seeing what she said.
I can't believe this is still going back and forth 24 hours later with no word from the OP. How many ways can the same thing be said? I guess we'll find out. Carry On Now, Carry On.
"The leads are weak!"
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
She was fortunate and wasn't harmed - I agree - fortunately no assault. However, from what the OP stated he DIDN'T leave when requested - it took 15 minutes of him trying to persuade her to change her mind and for her to repeatedly ask him to leave. If someone repeatedly disregarded my "No" and tried to change my mind I would be frightened too - wondering how much ability I have to control the situation or protect myself at that point.
that's still not a crime. if it were, every white tourist in la would be able to press charges against every group of young black men they come across. you being afraid a crime might be committed is not, itself, a crime. esp since it seems more like he was pathetically begging for sex rather than threatening her to give it to him.
I do agree. But how does that make his actions any less forced upon her?
actions? he was talking. maybe his words were forced upon her, but tough shit, in your own home with a man you invited in, you can't really claim sexual harassment becos you have many options for putting a stop to it. you can kick him out, call the cops, or not invite someone over. he forced no actions on her. it was a douchebag move on his part, yes, but not illegal nor was he forcing any action on her. he might have made her uncomfortable, but a lot of people make me uncomfortable and that does not mean they are criminals or should be considered criminals.
actions? he was talking. maybe his words were forced upon her, but tough shit, in your own home with a man you invited in, you can't really claim sexual harassment becos you have many options for putting a stop to it. you can kick him out, call the cops, or not invite someone over. he forced no actions on her. it was a douchebag move on his part, yes, but not illegal nor was he forcing any action on her. he might have made her uncomfortable, but a lot of people make me uncomfortable and that does not mean they are criminals or should be considered criminals.
Well, no, it doesn't make him a criminal. But it does not mean she's at fault for his actions.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Trespassing??!?!??!?!??!?? Didn't she invite him over? How is that trespassing? To trespass is to "enter private land without permission". I think the phone call and her opening the door up for him pretty much blasts that theory out of the water.
it is in california. i bet i could find that it is in another 49 states if i had the time...
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(n) [refusal to leave private property ]
provides that a person who refuses or fails to leave land not open to the general public when requested to do so by the owner, owner's agent, or a peace officer at the request of the owner or owner's agent may be arrested.
All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(n) [refusal to leave private property ]
provides that a person who refuses or fails to leave land not open to the general public when requested to do so by the owner, owner's agent, or a peace officer at the request of the owner or owner's agent may be arrested.
yeah youre right it is a crime. in Ireland too. and pretty much every common law jurisdiction the world over. as soon as the landowner or tenant removes or revokes your permission to be on the property, failure to leave falls into the crime of trespassing. unless of course the guy had a warrant to be there (maybe he was a cop), from the lack of details its hard to know
no, she isn't. but it might mean they both over-reacted rather than that he should be labeled a sex offender.
Did I? I'm sorry if I did; I definitely didn't mean to. I was just trying to stress that it wasn't her fault.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
that's still not a crime. if it were, every white tourist in la would be able to press charges against every group of young black men they come across. you being afraid a crime might be committed is not, itself, a crime. esp since it seems more like he was pathetically begging for sex rather than threatening her to give it to him.
I realize this does not constitute sexual assault...because there wasn't an assault. The point I am making is for 15 minutes she did not consent to having sex with him...for 15 minutes she said "no" and asked him to leave...if she was uncomfortable/scared/whatever it is understandable because he showed repeatedly he was gonna test and try to push her boundaries. As you have noted yourself, his behavior after she said no was unexcusable - crime or not.
Agreed! I was worried this thread would get locked Moving Train-style. But we done good.
drivingrl: "Will I ever get to meet Gwen Stefani?"
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Last weekend, I invited a man over to watch videos since the snow didn't call for going out for coffee. This guy took the invitation as sexual rights. Except for him (respecting) my "No's", I'd say he did everything but rape me. He said I was asking for it by the way I was dressed. And if I wouldn't do this, would I do that? And since I wouldn't do that, would I do this? In the words of Avril Lavigne, it was "badder than it sounds." I held the door open for him to leave and that took 15 painful minutes.
The experience rates #2 in my top two worst times with a male. (The first, worst time being when I nearly divorced yet managed to help write a few hit songs...)
I think it could be an american thing too. I have lots of american friends like I have lots of European friends and have lived in the US and in various european countries. They do think differently when it comes to the sexes, what the 'signals' (or lack thereof) can be and what friendship/hanging out with each other may be.
It's an interesting thought... cos I've notice this crop up in other threads too... where the American posters have one view and the Europeans another on this topic.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
If you as a woman want to invite complete strangers over to your house to watch videos, then good luck is all I have to say. I'd recommend getting to know them a bit first, but that's just crazy ol' me.
she didn't say he was a complete stranger, I would use a confused smilie to emphasise my confusion, but since that seems to piss you off, I'll refrain ooops, couldn't help that one though I've been posting here a couple of years and I'd say 95% of my posts have at least 2 smillies in them... none of them to be condescending or a bitch, in case you're taking it personally.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
No that's just women. Like I said before, I still can't get over how to this day women don't understand how men work. It's so simple. Women don't understand how men are into porn or look at other women, or can't be 'just friends' with a hot girl, etc etc. Enough with the cluelessness. Men are men. Always have been, always will be, not matter how much you think they are pigs. Deal with it or join a convent.
jordywordy and jeremy are both guys... both European... and they've said they have plenty of female friends who they can't see as anything other than a friend. Join a convent???? Is that what I must do now? :rolleyes:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Yea, it's just more dramatization from the drama/victim crowd. Shameful slap in the face to real victims.
drama/victim crowd? What the fuck's that meant to mean? You're the one who think we should all have in the back of our mind that we could be raped... you're the one saying that if I invite a guy to my place, I should expect him to make a move :rolleyes: . You seem to WANT us to be victims... I'm arguing the opposite... that's the point of my ENTIRE argument here.
and what would you know about real victims anyway? Fuck all I'd say... I'm willing to believe that you think the only rape is the kind where you're dragged down an alley and beaten to a pulp.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Nah, nothing he did was criminal or illegal in any way, obviously. I don't know about the trespassing bit, but otherwise nothing illegal happened.
But one thing that I think is clear is that what happened was not her fault. The responsibility lays solely with him, regardless of her actions.
It sounds like a ridiculous argument for me to stress, but it's important for people to understand that people who are victims of things like this are not to blame. I'm sorry to use the word "victim," because that's a heavily-loaded word to use in this case being that she wasn't raped, but it's a chilling thing when someone tries to exert that kind of power over you. It shakes you a bit.
And I'm sure tish will have learned something from this situation, but it's very risky to go around pointing the finger and saying, "Well, you're the one who invited him over, so it's your fault," because it never is. Rape victims are fastest to blame themselves for being raped, and that kind of mentality can be crippling. That is something that takes years to recover from.
oh I'm guessing you're one of the drama/victim crowd, eh? AllNiteThing don't you get that there could be girls reading this wondering what to do. It may be just the 'dramatic' ones doing the talking here but it's GOOD to talk about this kinda stuff... but hey, you wouldn't understand any of that! It's good for other girls to READ this stuff and realise that they're actually NOT the only ones... and that there are answers out there and that they shouldn't blame themselves. It doesnt' do much help to read some of the opinions on here... so if somebody can feel a bit better about themselves from this thread or any other thread, I couldn't give a FUCK what kinda opinion YOU form of me.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
...or maybe trusting or naive...i think a lot of times people aren't aware of danger until they're exposed to it...either directly or vicariously. Sometimes you don't even realize the risks until after something bad happens.
funny thing is it was the opposite for me... I used to undergo ALL kinds of risk assessments and stay away from various situations and tried to keep safe. When I realised it can happen anywhere or anytime I thought there's no point losing any further sleep over it.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Hehehehehe indeed :rolleyes: thanks for your intelligent input
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Yes, I demonstrated poor judgement inviting the man (that I have had small-talk with for a year) over without making my get-to-know him better intentions crystal clear. I won't put my self in that predicament again.
His behaviour truly disgusted me. His solicitations made me want to jump in the shower and scrub myself after he left. (Insert shudder here.)
I very much appreciated tips on keeping safe while dating. I'm usually in long-term relationships.
Trespassing, hey. Who knew?
thanks for the update tish... funny that there's no reply from the lads on that one... oh and they wanna know what you were wearing
Sorry you felt like that.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Last weekend, I invited a man over to watch videos since the snow didn't call for going out for coffee. This guy took the invitation as sexual rights. Except for him (respecting) my "No's", I'd say he did everything but rape me. He said I was asking for it by the way I was dressed. And if I wouldn't do this, would I do that? And since I wouldn't do that, would I do this? In the words of Avril Lavigne, it was "badder than it sounds." I held the door open for him to leave and that took 15 painful minutes.
The experience rates #2 in my top two worst times with a male. (The first, worst time being when I nearly divorced yet managed to help write a few hit songs...)
Comments
if that is what he asked, and i am skeptical about that. in that scenario, they are not being asked to make her uncomfortable, they are asked becos SHE made HIM feel uncomfortable by inviting him over, giving every reason for him to think it was a booty call, and then saying no. so he sits there feeling awkward and embarrassed and tried to figure out what is going on. i've been in the situation and the balance of power was on her side. yes, it should have ended at no. but depending on what actually happened (and i strongly doubt things happened as she describes) i would feel hard pressed to call him a rapist or even say he was sexually assaulting her. at least he was trying to get her consent rather than just trying to do all those things and seeing what she said.
"The leads are weak? Fuckin' leads are weak? You're Weak! I've Been in this business 15 years"
"What's your name?"
"FUCK YOU! THAT"S MY NAME!"
that's still not a crime. if it were, every white tourist in la would be able to press charges against every group of young black men they come across. you being afraid a crime might be committed is not, itself, a crime. esp since it seems more like he was pathetically begging for sex rather than threatening her to give it to him.
actions? he was talking. maybe his words were forced upon her, but tough shit, in your own home with a man you invited in, you can't really claim sexual harassment becos you have many options for putting a stop to it. you can kick him out, call the cops, or not invite someone over. he forced no actions on her. it was a douchebag move on his part, yes, but not illegal nor was he forcing any action on her. he might have made her uncomfortable, but a lot of people make me uncomfortable and that does not mean they are criminals or should be considered criminals.
Well, no, it doesn't make him a criminal. But it does not mean she's at fault for his actions.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
what the fuck you wowing?
it is in california. i bet i could find that it is in another 49 states if i had the time...
CA PENAL CODE SECTION 602(n) [refusal to leave private property ]
provides that a person who refuses or fails to leave land not open to the general public when requested to do so by the owner, owner's agent, or a peace officer at the request of the owner or owner's agent may be arrested.
no, she isn't. but it might mean they both over-reacted rather than that he should be labeled a sex offender.
You, tough guy. You. :rolleyes:
nowadays hits you when you're young
and I wonder where Tish is..?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
yeah youre right it is a crime. in Ireland too. and pretty much every common law jurisdiction the world over. as soon as the landowner or tenant removes or revokes your permission to be on the property, failure to leave falls into the crime of trespassing. unless of course the guy had a warrant to be there (maybe he was a cop), from the lack of details its hard to know
Did I? I'm sorry if I did; I definitely didn't mean to. I was just trying to stress that it wasn't her fault.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
BTW- This thread is fucking awesome!
I agree...totally!!
"What a stupid lamb."
"What a sick, masochistic lion."
Agreed! I was worried this thread would get locked Moving Train-style. But we done good.
kevinbeetle: "Yes. When her career washes up and her and Gavin move to Galveston, you will meet her at Hot Topic shopping for a Japanese cheerleader outfit.
Next!"
-Greg Dulli
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
and what would you know about real victims anyway? Fuck all I'd say... I'm willing to believe that you think the only rape is the kind where you're dragged down an alley and beaten to a pulp.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Sorry you felt like that.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
plant.....................