I have read through a lot of this and I don't know if anyone has touched on it or not but give or take there are 40 states in the U S that recognize right to carry. I keep reading about people defending their homes and stuff but there are way more people out on the streets legally carrying guns than a lot of you probably realize. Personally I could care less. If they are permitted to do so and it makes them feel better it doesn't phase me one way or the other.
Self defense is not murder. Self defense can involve taking a life, but it can't reasonably be called murder. Killing someone who is going to inflict harm or death on a loved one is an honorable thing. My "soul" will be in far worse shape if I stood by and watched harm come to my family and did nothing.
I don't subscribe to religious notions of the sanctity of life (or soul for that matter), so if some scumbag dies doing something bad, I honestly don't care. If I took someone's life, I'd probably throw up, and then quickly get over it once the rational part of me realized that it was him or me (or my family).
If you chose to allow an intruder to have their way with your loved ones, that is something you'll have to live with.
What i do not understand, is how some people can come on here and boast about blowing someones brains out all over a wall and act proud about the fact that they are prepared to murder someone. Some of the talk has centred around blowing someones head off over possessions. Possessions for fucks sake.
I do not choose to allow an intruder to have their way with my loved ones. I will fight till my death to protect them but i will not pick up a gun and shoot it.
I guess my point is, i refuse to live my life surrounded by being fearful of 'what might happen'. That does not mean that i will walk around with my head up my ass thinking bad things wont' ever happen. I'll do my best to be aware of whats going on around me. For me though, the bottom line is, I save lives, not take them.
Let me ask you a question. Please? My brother was killed by a drunk driver. How could i have protected him? What good would a gun have done me there.
You people keep talking about having a gun, so that you can protect your family when an intruder breaks into your home. People don't just get killed at home. What are you going to do to protect your family when they are at school, out with their friends, out shopping, watching a movie, in a bar, walking home, driving home, at the park, living life?
Look, i don't agree, but i understand that some people may wish to purchase a gun and have it on their property in the event that they may need to someday protect themselves or their family against real physical harm. Ok i get that.
What i do not understand, is how some people can come on here and boast about blowing someones brains out all over a wall and act proud about the fact that they are prepared to murder someone. Some of the talk has centred around blowing someones head off over possessions. Possessions for fucks sake.
Murder is NOT pretty. Unless you are a completely heartless person, just make sure you are prepared of the consequences that will follow once you murder someone. Be prepared to lose part of your soul if you have one.
I work as a critical care paramedic and i have seen death first hand more often that i ever hoped to. It's real, people die, dead, finito, no more. Not the movies ok.
Self defense is not murder. Self defense can involve taking a life, but it can't reasonably be called murder. Killing someone who is going to inflict harm or death on a loved one is an honorable thing. My "soul" will be in far worse shape if I stood by and watched harm come to my family and did nothing.
I don't subscribe to religious notions of the sanctity of life (or soul for that matter), so if some scumbag dies doing something bad, I honestly don't care. If I took someone's life, I'd probably throw up, and then quickly get over it once the rational part of me realized that it was him or me (or my family).
If you chose to allow an intruder to have their way with your loved ones, that is something you'll have to live with.
I'd love to know how many of the people who purport to know how they would feel after having killed someone - up close, first hand, brains on the walls like someone said - have actually experienced this. For those who haven't, get back to me when you know what you're talking about.
So in your role in management would you rather have planned for the worst or just assume everything would turn out fine?
I know what my boss would expect me to do.
I actually worked in a really nice restaraunt, it made 11-13 million dollars in the 2 years I was there. I worked back of the house, but was in charge of closing the kitchen down- making sure everyone did what they were supposed to in the back of the house, and ordered food and counted lobsters and shit and so on.
But out front there were like 2 servers and the manager closing the front.
And so I thought about, what would I do if some guys decided to rob the place-like it would have been really easy to do. Front door was glass, the place was kinda removed from downtown, on the marina, fairly easy target as far as that goes.
And then I realized. There is no fucking way in hell that I was going to stand up to them to protect an insured company. there is no way in hell I was gonna risk my life over money. fuck it, let em have it all.
And then I realized most people payed with credit cards anyway and I never really thought about that again.
I'd love to know how many of the people who purport to know how they would feel after having killed someone - up close, first hand, brains on the walls like someone said - have actually experienced this. For those who haven't, get back to me when you know what you're talking about.
I know I would feel worse if a family member were assaulted or killed than I would if a scumbag was killed. I already said I'm sure I'd throw up. Not trying to be macho, but I value the my life and the lives of my friends and family over someone breaking and entering into my home. I don't know why that is hard to understand.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I actually worked in a really nice restaraunt, it made 11-13 million dollars in the 2 years I was there. I worked back of the house, but was in charge of closing the kitchen down- making sure everyone did what they were supposed to in the back of the house, and ordered food and counted lobsters and shit and so on.
But out front there were like 2 servers and the manager closing the front.
And so I thought about, what would I do if some guys decided to rob the place-like it would have been really easy to do. Front door was glass, the place was kinda removed from downtown, on the marina, fairly easy target as far as that goes.
And then I realized. There is no fucking way in hell that I was going to stand up to them to protect an insured company. there is no way in hell I was gonna risk my life over money. fuck it, let em have it all.
And then I realized most people payed with credit cards anyway and I never really thought about that again.
Yeah, every good manager always tells their employees that if someone tries to rob them to just give them the money.
I was a manager who told my employees that. One time we were robbed. Guess what? My employee gave the guy the money and no one was hurt.
I actually worked in a really nice restaraunt, it made 11-13 million dollars in the 2 years I was there. I worked back of the house, but was in charge of closing the kitchen down- making sure everyone did what they were supposed to in the back of the house, and ordered food and counted lobsters and shit and so on.
But out front there were like 2 servers and the manager closing the front.
And so I thought about, what would I do if some guys decided to rob the place-like it would have been really easy to do. Front door was glass, the place was kinda removed from downtown, on the marina, fairly easy target as far as that goes.
And then I realized. There is no fucking way in hell that I was going to stand up to them to protect an insured company. there is no way in hell I was gonna risk my life over money. fuck it, let em have it all.
And then I realized most people payed with credit cards anyway and I never really thought about that again.
Not exactly what I meant...
I run a large department of one of the largest outdoor outfitting companies in the world. The company just passed 2 Billion in revenue last year. My departmental budget for the year is just over 3 million. I need to figure out how I am going to deal with a forcasted 1.5 Million units for week 49 even though it may be less in reality. Do I plan for the forcasted 1.5 Million or do I say "fuck it. with the economy this bad we'll never hit that mark"? Guess what? I am planning for the worst because if I don't and get nailed by those 1.5 million units unprepared I will be fired. I do not want to lose my job.
My point is that everyone should take easy precautions for worst-case scenarios. Owning a gun and knowing when and how to use it is not living in fear, it is being prepared.
Is purchasing car or homeowner's insurance living in fear?
I do not choose to allow an intruder to have their way with my loved ones. I will fight till my death to protect them but i will not pick up a gun and shoot it.
That's great. If you choose to limit your options, and handicap yourself, that is up to you. I choose to use all options at my disposal and give myself whatever advantage I can.
I guess my point is, i refuse to live my life surrounded by being fearful of 'what might happen'.
Why does having a plan, or thinking about a hypothetical equal fear to some of you? You've thought of the same hypothetical. But because yours doesn't involve a gun and mine does, mine is based on fear?
That does not mean that i will walk around with my head up my ass thinking bad things wont' ever happen. I'll do my best to be aware of whats going on around me. For me though, the bottom line is, I save lives, not take them.
I neither take nor save lives. But if given the choice, I'll take a lesser valued life to save a higher valued life.
Let me ask you a question. Please? My brother was killed by a drunk driver. How could i have protected him? What good would a gun have done me there.
You people keep talking about having a gun, so that you can protect your family when an intruder breaks into your home. People don't just get killed at home. What are you going to do to protect your family when they are at school, out with their friends, out shopping, watching a movie, in a bar, walking home, driving home, at the park, living life?
I am sorry for your loss. Truely. Drunk driving deaths are horrible. I hope that the drunk who killed your brother continues to pay the price for that.
A gun wouldn't have been a solution to that problem. Just because the gun may be part of a solution for one problem doesn't mean that it is a universal solution for every problem. Neither is a fire extinguisher. I would want to have a fire extinguisher handy if my house was on fire, but I really wouldn't need one if I was trying to fix the sink in my bathroom. We have different tools and different solutions available for different problems.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I know I would feel worse if a family member were assaulted or killed than I would if a scumbag was killed. I already said I'm sure I'd throw up. Not trying to be macho, but I value the my life and the lives of my friends and family over someone breaking and entering into my home. I don't know why that is hard to understand.
Because it's not all about whose life you value more. It's about whether you value property more than life. It's about how quickly & easily you would take the life of someone else. It's about how you would feel if you shot someone who wasn't really a threat to your family. I could go on... I don't know why that is hard to understand.
I run a large department of one of the largest outdoor outfitting companies in the world. The company just passed 2 Billion in revenue last year. My departmental budget for the year is just over 3 million. I need to figure out how I am going to deal with a forcasted 1.5 Million units for week 49 even though it may be less in reality. Do I plan for the forcasted 1.5 Million or do I say "fuck it. with the economy this bad we'll never hit that mark"? Guess what? I am planning for the worst because if I don't and get nailed by those 1.5 million units unprepared I will be fired. I do not want to lose my job.
My point is that everyone should take easy precautions for worst-case scenarios. Owning a gun and knowing when and how to use it is not living in fear, it is being prepared.
Is purchasing car or homeowner's insurance living in fear?
owning insurance can't be used to burn your house down. or car insurance used to wreck your car.
owning a gun can be used to protect you sure, but that same gun can also be used to kill you.
If your worried about home invasion, get a deadbolt. they can't use a deadbolt to shoot you in the face.
I run a large department of one of the largest outdoor outfitting companies in the world. The company just passed 2 Billion in revenue last year. My departmental budget for the year is just over 3 million. I need to figure out how I am going to deal with a forcasted 1.5 Million units for week 49 even though it may be less in reality. Do I plan for the forcasted 1.5 Million or do I say "fuck it. with the economy this bad we'll never hit that mark"? Guess what? I am planning for the worst because if I don't and get nailed by those 1.5 million units unprepared I will be fired. I do not want to lose my job.
My point is that everyone should take easy precautions for worst-case scenarios. Owning a gun and knowing when and how to use it is not living in fear, it is being prepared.
Is purchasing car or homeowner's insurance living in fear?
I think your comparison between money and life exemplifies the point some of us are trying to make...
Because it's not all about whose life you value more. It's about whether you value property more than life. It's about how quickly & easily you would take the life of someone else. It's about how you would feel if you shot someone who wasn't really a threat to your family. I could go on... I don't know why that is hard to understand.
It would be sweet to have the power to see the future, and know that the guy was just walking down the hallway to your daughter's room just to steal the coins in the closet and not do her any harm. It would be great to have ESP and read the intruder's mind to know that they really mean you no harm. It would be awesome to have the luxury of time, and sit down with the intruder for a little psychoanalysis.
It would be naive to think that someone in your house isn't a threat to life and safety.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Is purchasing car or homeowner's insurance living in fear?
the insurance company main tool is your fear of what could happen in the future... just in case cause you never know do you? well fuck that bullshit. i will never be insured for anything. in fact i never have been. if worst comes to worse and something happens then i will deal with it.
i never understood how people(in my experience) with private health insurance end up paying anyway to some extent. if im forking out all that money monthly i dont expect to have to pay if i need to claim against my insurance. it makes zero sense to me. afterall why the fuck am i paying thsoe premiums in the first palce?
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I know I would feel worse if a family member were assaulted or killed than I would if a scumbag was killed. I already said I'm sure I'd throw up. Not trying to be macho, but I value the my life and the lives of my friends and family over someone breaking and entering into my home. I don't know why that is hard to understand.
I value my life and my families life too. Absolutely i do. I would never judge you or anyone else who used a gun to save their life or that of their loved ones. I have a problem though with guns being used when it comes to possessions. Possessions are an entirely different thing. Your family aren't possessions.
I wonder how many home invasions involve the guy using the kitchen knife to stab the whole family.
Remind me how a deadbolt protects a window.
people call me paranoid. I am paranoid.
But I don't even lock my door half the time when I go to sleep. And I'm not that destitute, like someone could walk out of here with a few grand worth of stuff, or come upstairs and kill me in my sleep. I just don't think about that shit, I don't live in fear.
And I'm still here.
If you live in inner city LA or Chicago or something, I could understand the motivation for wanting to protect youself. I don't want to take away that right from anyone, I am just leaning more towards the idea that guns cause more problems than they solve.
Think I mentioned this before, but this kid I used to go to school with would look for families with guns, and pick them to rob, because he could sell the guns for more than say a tv. The fact that you had a gun made you a target. And I don't how common that is, but that is how he worked. And it got more guns in the hands of people that maybe shouldn't be owning guns.
and their are ways to protect your windows any number of ways.
how would you all feel if your son or daughter was shot dead by an overzealous homeowner during the coarse of them robbing a house of a plasma tv? your child wasnt even armed and their intent was to only steal the tv, not to rape, maim or kill the homeowners. what is your childs life worth?
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I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Why are you defending a criminal? So do you think it is ok for someone to steal from someone else?
That's great. If you choose to limit your options, and handicap yourself, that is up to you. I choose to use all options at my disposal and give myself whatever advantage I can.
Why does having a plan, or thinking about a hypothetical equal fear to some of you? You've thought of the same hypothetical. But because yours doesn't involve a gun and mine does, mine is based on fear? .
I guess i just look at it differently to you. I don't handicap myself. I take precautions the best way i know and still lead a relatively free life without living in fear of what could happen. Why do i need a gun? When i go for a run and get to the park, i don't go at night time, (asking for touble), and i stick to the safe paths. Sure i can still be in some danger, but i make sensibile decisions by looking out for myself as much as i can. That's just one example. I don't wan't to have to carry a gun everywhere 'just in case'. Honestly, if i did live like that i would probably be a danger to myself and others. I couldn't use the bloody thing.
I am sorry for your loss. Truely. Drunk driving deaths are horrible. I hope that the drunk who killed your brother continues to pay the price for that.
A gun wouldn't have been a solution to that problem. Just because the gun may be part of a solution for one problem doesn't mean that it is a universal solution for every problem. Neither is a fire extinguisher. I would want to have a fire extinguisher handy if my house was on fire, but I really wouldn't need one if I was trying to fix the sink in my bathroom. We have different tools and different solutions available for different problems.
Thanks. We are still broken. Never will we be the same again, but i don't wish death on the person that killed him. I was angry, so angry when it happened, but i had to let that go eventually, because it eats you up inside, and the only way you can get through it is to let go. Doesn't make me miss him any less. But it helps me to heal.
And the fire extinguisher example, i do agree with what you are saying there, and i think we understand each other a bit better now.
Why are you defending a criminal? So do you think it is ok for someone to steal from someone else?
I'm not defending a criminal. I'm saying he should be punished for stealing via the normal judicary process. I just don't think it should cost him his life.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
My ex-GF is a police officer. They were responding to an armed robbery at a Walgreens late one night. As they pulled up these two adult men ran out of the store and starting shooting at the police car before they could even put it in park. She returned fire and wounded one of the criminals, the other was chased down and after being told repeatedly to drop his gun he shot at the cops again. They returned fire, killing him and ending the threat.
Now the guy that my ex shot lived. He also sued the police department for police brutality.
I'm guessing there are quite a few in this thread who think he is worth defending and believe that he was actually subject to police brutality.
Why are you defending a criminal? So do you think it is ok for someone to steal from someone else?
you talking to me?
im not defending a criminal. im saying a life, no ones life, is not worth a tv. not mine, not yours and not the thiefs. im not saying theft is right. but there are worse things that happen in this world.
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Comments
I was part of management, and I was very good at my job.
Now I am part of very small marketing team, and am doing some volunteer work for local representatives.
I do not choose to allow an intruder to have their way with my loved ones. I will fight till my death to protect them but i will not pick up a gun and shoot it.
I guess my point is, i refuse to live my life surrounded by being fearful of 'what might happen'. That does not mean that i will walk around with my head up my ass thinking bad things wont' ever happen. I'll do my best to be aware of whats going on around me. For me though, the bottom line is, I save lives, not take them.
Let me ask you a question. Please? My brother was killed by a drunk driver. How could i have protected him? What good would a gun have done me there.
You people keep talking about having a gun, so that you can protect your family when an intruder breaks into your home. People don't just get killed at home. What are you going to do to protect your family when they are at school, out with their friends, out shopping, watching a movie, in a bar, walking home, driving home, at the park, living life?
What she said!
I'd love to know how many of the people who purport to know how they would feel after having killed someone - up close, first hand, brains on the walls like someone said - have actually experienced this. For those who haven't, get back to me when you know what you're talking about.
So in your role in management would you rather have planned for the worst or just assume everything would turn out fine?
I know what my boss would expect me to do.
But out front there were like 2 servers and the manager closing the front.
And so I thought about, what would I do if some guys decided to rob the place-like it would have been really easy to do. Front door was glass, the place was kinda removed from downtown, on the marina, fairly easy target as far as that goes.
And then I realized. There is no fucking way in hell that I was going to stand up to them to protect an insured company. there is no way in hell I was gonna risk my life over money. fuck it, let em have it all.
And then I realized most people payed with credit cards anyway and I never really thought about that again.
Nope, not at all. Thanks for asking.
I know I would feel worse if a family member were assaulted or killed than I would if a scumbag was killed. I already said I'm sure I'd throw up. Not trying to be macho, but I value the my life and the lives of my friends and family over someone breaking and entering into my home. I don't know why that is hard to understand.
Yeah, every good manager always tells their employees that if someone tries to rob them to just give them the money.
I was a manager who told my employees that. One time we were robbed. Guess what? My employee gave the guy the money and no one was hurt.
Not exactly what I meant...
I run a large department of one of the largest outdoor outfitting companies in the world. The company just passed 2 Billion in revenue last year. My departmental budget for the year is just over 3 million. I need to figure out how I am going to deal with a forcasted 1.5 Million units for week 49 even though it may be less in reality. Do I plan for the forcasted 1.5 Million or do I say "fuck it. with the economy this bad we'll never hit that mark"? Guess what? I am planning for the worst because if I don't and get nailed by those 1.5 million units unprepared I will be fired. I do not want to lose my job.
My point is that everyone should take easy precautions for worst-case scenarios. Owning a gun and knowing when and how to use it is not living in fear, it is being prepared.
Is purchasing car or homeowner's insurance living in fear?
That's great. If you choose to limit your options, and handicap yourself, that is up to you. I choose to use all options at my disposal and give myself whatever advantage I can.
Why does having a plan, or thinking about a hypothetical equal fear to some of you? You've thought of the same hypothetical. But because yours doesn't involve a gun and mine does, mine is based on fear?
I neither take nor save lives. But if given the choice, I'll take a lesser valued life to save a higher valued life.
I am sorry for your loss. Truely. Drunk driving deaths are horrible. I hope that the drunk who killed your brother continues to pay the price for that.
A gun wouldn't have been a solution to that problem. Just because the gun may be part of a solution for one problem doesn't mean that it is a universal solution for every problem. Neither is a fire extinguisher. I would want to have a fire extinguisher handy if my house was on fire, but I really wouldn't need one if I was trying to fix the sink in my bathroom. We have different tools and different solutions available for different problems.
Because it's not all about whose life you value more. It's about whether you value property more than life. It's about how quickly & easily you would take the life of someone else. It's about how you would feel if you shot someone who wasn't really a threat to your family. I could go on... I don't know why that is hard to understand.
owning a gun can be used to protect you sure, but that same gun can also be used to kill you.
If your worried about home invasion, get a deadbolt. they can't use a deadbolt to shoot you in the face.
I think your comparison between money and life exemplifies the point some of us are trying to make...
It would be sweet to have the power to see the future, and know that the guy was just walking down the hallway to your daughter's room just to steal the coins in the closet and not do her any harm. It would be great to have ESP and read the intruder's mind to know that they really mean you no harm. It would be awesome to have the luxury of time, and sit down with the intruder for a little psychoanalysis.
It would be naive to think that someone in your house isn't a threat to life and safety.
So can owning kitchen knives.
Remind me how a deadbolt protects a window.
Hypothetically yes, statistically way less likely than being an effective deterrent, no. With training that takes that likelyhood down to nothing.
I am prepared.
It's a comparison of being prepared or not. You take from it what you want though I guess...
the insurance company main tool is your fear of what could happen in the future... just in case cause you never know do you? well fuck that bullshit. i will never be insured for anything. in fact i never have been. if worst comes to worse and something happens then i will deal with it.
i never understood how people(in my experience) with private health insurance end up paying anyway to some extent. if im forking out all that money monthly i dont expect to have to pay if i need to claim against my insurance. it makes zero sense to me. afterall why the fuck am i paying thsoe premiums in the first palce?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I wonder how many home invasions involve the guy using the kitchen knife to stab the whole family.
people call me paranoid. I am paranoid.
But I don't even lock my door half the time when I go to sleep. And I'm not that destitute, like someone could walk out of here with a few grand worth of stuff, or come upstairs and kill me in my sleep. I just don't think about that shit, I don't live in fear.
And I'm still here.
If you live in inner city LA or Chicago or something, I could understand the motivation for wanting to protect youself. I don't want to take away that right from anyone, I am just leaning more towards the idea that guns cause more problems than they solve.
Think I mentioned this before, but this kid I used to go to school with would look for families with guns, and pick them to rob, because he could sell the guns for more than say a tv. The fact that you had a gun made you a target. And I don't how common that is, but that is how he worked. And it got more guns in the hands of people that maybe shouldn't be owning guns.
and their are ways to protect your windows any number of ways.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Thanks. We are still broken. Never will we be the same again, but i don't wish death on the person that killed him. I was angry, so angry when it happened, but i had to let that go eventually, because it eats you up inside, and the only way you can get through it is to let go. Doesn't make me miss him any less. But it helps me to heal.
And the fire extinguisher example, i do agree with what you are saying there, and i think we understand each other a bit better now.
Now the guy that my ex shot lived. He also sued the police department for police brutality.
I'm guessing there are quite a few in this thread who think he is worth defending and believe that he was actually subject to police brutality.
you talking to me?
im not defending a criminal. im saying a life, no ones life, is not worth a tv. not mine, not yours and not the thiefs. im not saying theft is right. but there are worse things that happen in this world.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say