gun question.

69charger

scb wrote:

I think your comparison between money and life exemplifies the point some of us are trying to make...

It's a comparison of being prepared or not. You take from it what you want though I guess...

catefrances

69charger wrote:

Is purchasing car or homeowner's insurance living in fear?

the insurance company main tool is your fear of what could happen in the future... just in case cause you never know do you? well fuck that bullshit. i will never be insured for anything. in fact i never have been. if worst comes to worse and something happens then i will deal with it.

i never understood how people(in my experience) with private health insurance end up paying anyway to some extent. if im forking out all that money monthly i dont expect to have to pay if i need to claim against my insurance. it makes zero sense to me. afterall why the fuck am i paying thsoe premiums in the first palce?

Anon

jeffbr wrote:

I know I would feel worse if a family member were assaulted or killed than I would if a scumbag was killed. I already said I'm sure I'd throw up. Not trying to be macho, but I value the my life and the lives of my friends and family over someone breaking and entering into my home. I don't know why that is hard to understand.

I value my life and my families life too. Absolutely i do. I would never judge you or anyone else who used a gun to save their life or that of their loved ones. I have a problem though with guns being used when it comes to possessions. Possessions are an entirely different thing. Your family aren't possessions.

Commy

jeffbr wrote:

So can owning kitchen knives.

true.

I wonder how many home invasions involve the guy using the kitchen knife to stab the whole family.

Remind me how a deadbolt protects a window.

people call me paranoid. I am paranoid.

But I don't even lock my door half the time when I go to sleep. And I'm not that destitute, like someone could walk out of here with a few grand worth of stuff, or come upstairs and kill me in my sleep. I just don't think about that shit, I don't live in fear.

And I'm still here.

If you live in inner city LA or Chicago or something, I could understand the motivation for wanting to protect youself. I don't want to take away that right from anyone, I am just leaning more towards the idea that guns cause more problems than they solve.

Think I mentioned this before, but this kid I used to go to school with would look for families with guns, and pick them to rob, because he could sell the guns for more than say a tv. The fact that you had a gun made you a target. And I don't how common that is, but that is how he worked. And it got more guns in the hands of people that maybe shouldn't be owning guns.

and their are ways to protect your windows any number of ways.

catefrances

how would you all feel if your son or daughter was shot dead by an overzealous homeowner during the coarse of them robbing a house of a plasma tv? your child wasnt even armed and their intent was to only steal the tv, not to rape, maim or kill the homeowners. what is your childs life worth?

unsung

Why are you defending a criminal? So do you think it is ok for someone to steal from someone else?

Anon

jeffbr wrote:

That's great. If you choose to limit your options, and handicap yourself, that is up to you. I choose to use all options at my disposal and give myself whatever advantage I can.
Why does having a plan, or thinking about a hypothetical equal fear to some of you? You've thought of the same hypothetical. But because yours doesn't involve a gun and mine does, mine is based on fear? .

I guess i just look at it differently to you. I don't handicap myself. I take precautions the best way i know and still lead a relatively free life without living in fear of what could happen. Why do i need a gun? When i go for a run and get to the park, i don't go at night time, (asking for touble), and i stick to the safe paths. Sure i can still be in some danger, but i make sensibile decisions by looking out for myself as much as i can. That's just one example. I don't wan't to have to carry a gun everywhere 'just in case'. Honestly, if i did live like that i would probably be a danger to myself and others. I couldn't use the bloody thing.

jeffbr wrote:

I am sorry for your loss. Truely. Drunk driving deaths are horrible. I hope that the drunk who killed your brother continues to pay the price for that.

A gun wouldn't have been a solution to that problem. Just because the gun may be part of a solution for one problem doesn't mean that it is a universal solution for every problem. Neither is a fire extinguisher. I would want to have a fire extinguisher handy if my house was on fire, but I really wouldn't need one if I was trying to fix the sink in my bathroom. We have different tools and different solutions available for different problems.

Thanks. We are still broken. Never will we be the same again, but i don't wish death on the person that killed him. I was angry, so angry when it happened, but i had to let that go eventually, because it eats you up inside, and the only way you can get through it is to let go. Doesn't make me miss him any less. But it helps me to heal.

And the fire extinguisher example, i do agree with what you are saying there, and i think we understand each other a bit better now.

Anon

unsung wrote:

Why are you defending a criminal? So do you think it is ok for someone to steal from someone else?

I'm not defending a criminal. I'm saying he should be punished for stealing via the normal judicary process. I just don't think it should cost him his life.

unsung

My ex-GF is a police officer. They were responding to an armed robbery at a Walgreens late one night. As they pulled up these two adult men ran out of the store and starting shooting at the police car before they could even put it in park. She returned fire and wounded one of the criminals, the other was chased down and after being told repeatedly to drop his gun he shot at the cops again. They returned fire, killing him and ending the threat.

Now the guy that my ex shot lived. He also sued the police department for police brutality.

I'm guessing there are quite a few in this thread who think he is worth defending and believe that he was actually subject to police brutality.

catefrances

unsung wrote:

Why are you defending a criminal? So do you think it is ok for someone to steal from someone else?

you talking to me?

im not defending a criminal. im saying a life, no ones life, is not worth a tv. not mine, not yours and not the thiefs. im not saying theft is right. but there are worse things that happen in this world.

unsung

Pj_Gurl wrote:

I'm not defending a criminal. I'm saying he should be punished for stealing via the normal judicary process. I just don't think it should cost him his life.

But how do you know that after he loads up his truck he isn't going to try to force himself upon you? Or harm someone in your family.

unsung

catefrances wrote:

you talking to me?

im not defending a criminal. im saying a life, no ones life, is not worth a tv. not mine, not yours and not the thiefs. im not saying theft is right. but there are worse things that happen in this world.

Namely rape and murder. You don't know his intentions. He might think you are good looking enough to do bad things, he might think if you are such a pushover for your plasma tv he can do more and get away with it.

The point is you don't want to find out.

catefrances

unsung wrote:

My ex-GF is a police officer. They were responding to an armed robbery at a Walgreens late one night. As they pulled up these two adult men ran out of the store and starting shooting at the police car before they could even put it in park. She returned fire and wounded one of the criminals, the other was chased down and after being told repeatedly to drop his gun he shot at the cops again. They returned fire, killing him and ending the threat.

Now the guy that my ex shot lived. He also sued the police department for police brutality.

I'm guessing there are quite a few in this thread who think he is worth defending and believe that he was actually subject to police brutality.

if you take a weapon to a robbery, that to me says you intend to use it if needed. and thusly you and the situation should be handle in accordance with that. if you shoot at a cop then you are a fucking idiot. i do not agree this robber was subjected to police brutality, the police were not only doing their job, but returning fire in self defense and he should actually be thanking your ex for showing some restraint.

unsung

catefrances wrote:

if you take a weapon to a robbery, that to me says you intend to use it if needed. and thusly you and the situation should be handle in accordance with that. if you shoot at a cop then you are a fucking idiot. i do not agree this robber was subjected to police brutality, the police were not only doing their job, but returning fire in self defense and he should actually be thanking your ex for showing some restraint.

Then how do you know he isn't going to have a gun when he breaks into your house? Are you going to pat him down first? Run some background checks?

C'mon face reality. I'm guessing it wouldn't be the first house they broke into and I'm also willing to guess that they have a backup plan in case some homeowner comes out with a baseball bat or something more deadly.

If you come out armed and show that you mean business the intruder is most likely going to run off, or come at you. Either way the threat would be over if you are armed.

catefrances

unsung wrote:

Namely rape and murder. You don't know his intentions. He might think you are good looking enough to do bad things, he might think if you are such a pushover for your plasma tv he can do more and get away with it.

The point is you don't want to find out.

yes, youre correct rape and murder are worse than losing your big screen plasma.

in my experience when a robber enters your home with the intent of stealing shit, thats what he will do. if hes a violent offender and feels the need to come find you before lifting your plasma through the patio doors then chances are youll be bound and gagged before you even realise he is in the house and that nicely cleaned and maintained weapon is useless. unless he finds it and uses it on you.

Anon

unsung wrote:

My ex-GF is a police officer. They were responding to an armed robbery at a Walgreens late one night. As they pulled up these two adult men ran out of the store and starting shooting at the police car before they could even put it in park. She returned fire and wounded one of the criminals, the other was chased down and after being told repeatedly to drop his gun he shot at the cops again. They returned fire, killing him and ending the threat.

Now the guy that my ex shot lived. He also sued the police department for police brutality.

I'm guessing there are quite a few in this thread who think he is worth defending and believe that he was actually subject to police brutality.

Wait. They were responding to an armed robbery. He started shooting at the police officers first. They continued shooting after repeated requests to stop.

I'm really struggling to get the connection with someone breaking into your home to steal a TV here. A lot of the people in this thread are horrified that people are saying they would shoot someones brains out because they were stealing a TV. Not because they were being fired at or threatened. Stealing a TV.

Anon

unsung wrote:

But how do you know that after he loads up his truck he isn't going to try to force himself upon you? Or harm someone in your family.

I'm on the same page as Cate here unsung.

catefrances

unsung wrote:

Then how do you know he isn't going to have a gun when he breaks into your house? Are you going to pat him down first? Run some background checks?

C'mon face reality. I'm guessing it wouldn't be the first house they broke into and I'm also willing to guess that they have a backup plan in case some homeowner comes out with a baseball bat or something more deadly.

If you come out armed and show that you mean business the intruder is most likely going to run off, or come at you. Either way the threat would be over if you are armed.

we live in different worlds im afraid. and point is moot anyway, my government wont allow the populace weapons except by special circumstance.

youre doing an awful lot of guessing and supposition, you know. but then again i am too. but what i do know is ONLY if the lives of my children are at risk will i deliberately cause harm to another person. i dont need a gun to do that. ive been in situations where if you make enough noise, someone who doesnt belong in your home willl run away.
id also be interested in the percentage of robberies that happen when the occupants are home as opposed to those committed when the occupants are elsewhere.
anyhoo whatever... i have more than enough confidence in myself that i can assess and take control of a situation without anyone getting shot. well just have to agree to disagree on this.

sponger

dunkman wrote:

well thats because no pro-gun person ever responds to posts like this:-

in 2001-2002 in the UK 23 people were killed by handguns...

in the US that figure was 29,573 deaths from firearms

now we have a 1/5th of the population of the US... so i'd expect our gun deaths to be a 1/5th of yours... so that 1/5th is 5914!!

we should have had 5914 gun related deaths to be in line with the US... we had 23!!!

you can clearly see you have a major problem with guns in your country... posting figures about other countries will always actually prove that your country is worse than others.

you cant argue with that. to do so would be both ignorant and futile.


it'd be nice if a pro-gun poster cam on and said 'you know what... we do have a problem, perhaps we should look at this gun problem of ours' instead of just doing an ostrich.

It's that "so that more may live" mentality that leads to a people becoming more easily oppressed. Sure, more people live as a result of hand guns being taken out of the picture, but it's at a much larger cost to the people whose right to bear arms has been stripped.

I might very well someday be a victim of hand gun violence. But, that doesn't scare me into believing that my fellow American citizens should be without a means to protect themselves. That would be very selfish of me.

And it's that kind of selfishness and disregard for fundamental rights that gives more power to the government than it's entitled to.

So, we Americans bear a heavier price for the individual right to take arms when need be, but that price is worth paying considering what is at stake.

People in the UK should especially understand this concept as it wasn't so long ago that they lived under totalitarian rule by way of an absolute monarchy. Yet, the people are so eagerly willing to surrender their ability to defend themselves against unforeseen actions of government.

catefrances

sponger wrote:

It's that "so that more may live" mentality that leads to a people becoming more easily oppressed. Sure, more people live as a result of hand guns being taken out of the picture, but it's at a much larger cost to the people whose right to bear arms has been stripped.

I might very well someday be a victim of hand gun violence. But, that doesn't scare me into believing that my fellow American citizens should be without a means to protect themselves. That would be very selfish of me.

And it's that kind of selfishness and disregard for fundamental rights that gives more power to the government than it's entitled to.

So, we Americans bear a heavier price for the individual right to take arms when need be, but that price is worth paying considering what is at stake.

People in the UK should especially understand this concept as it wasn't so long ago that they lived under totalitarian rule by way of an absolute monarchy. Yet, the people are so eagerly willing to surrender their ability to defend themselves against unforeseen actions of government.

LMFAO!!! you have got to be kidding me sponger.

and what price would that be may i ask? accidental firearms deaths? needless firearms deaths? the fact that when it comes to 'disputes' your government seems only be able to 'reconcile' at the barrel of a gun? what is this price you speak of? it must be such a responsibility to bear. i dont know how americans manage to cope. :rolleyes: