gun question.

the wolf

catefrances wrote:

but why?????

why is there talk of martial law? and who's doing the talking? are there rumblings that the government is going to be overthrown? have there been threats to the stability of your country aside from the monumentally amusing economic downturn? for me when i think the need for martial law, i think imminent threat and danger to the people by a force agitating from within. or by the people towards the government. what is going on in your country that this is even being talked about, no matter how benignly.

i was really just blown away, by just making a few phone calls stating my purpose of doing research for a book that is/was intended to be a work of fiction, and where it got me. and how many people would talk to me, though most were "off the record". i was blown away. and to be honest, i was so into the research, that it took a few people that ive been running ideas passed, that said "whaooo hold on, they said that"? i was so focused on getting info, that the info i was getting was actually being lost on me.
it was afterward, that when it came time to go back and read my notes, that i was actually seeing the common thread, the common wording from all that i spoke with.

it was just an overwhelming shock to my system.

i didnt say, "we ARE gearing up for Martial Law" i said that it seems to me that we are.

with all that being said, the same people that talked to me, all but one will not take or return my calls now. idk what it all means, i dont. im not saying it MEANS anything at all. im saying it struck me as.........off. and maybe opened my eyes to things i didnt see b4.

_

the wolf wrote:

agreed. what i was trying to say,, and what people seem to be missing. is "IF", let me repeat IF ML were to be declared, i , who am against guns for the most part but know how to handle one, would MAYBE like to have one. thats all. because IF martial law were put in place, it wouldnt be about people trying to take my "fruit loops" it would be people taking food that i would not be able to replace for how long? so really, by taking my "fruit loops" they would be killing me less i stole food from someone else.

so yes. i would defend the fuck out of my "fruit loops" so that my GF and my family and friends could be around when things got back to "normal".

I see your point and I understand how the reaction to fear - especially of harm coming to your loved ones - could be feeling like you need to buy a gun.

But I'm reminded of my great-grandmother's stories of the Depression. She had four kids to feed and protect. They were extremely poor like most people. And yet she always shared whatever food she had with anyone who needed it. As a matter of fact, she got more than her fair share of hobos coming to her for food so she finally asked one of them why they came to her house instead of going to her neighbors, espcially considering that she really didn't have extra food. Apparently someone had marked an X in front of her house to indicate that there lived a kind soul who wouldn't watch another person go hungry. It is my hope that, if ever faced with the same situation, I will be as good a person as my great-grandmother was.

catefrances

the wolf wrote:

i was really just blown away, by just making a few phone calls stating my purpose of doing research for a book that is/was intended to be a work of fiction, and where it got me. and how many people would talk to me, though most were "off the record". i was blown away. and to be honest, i was so into the research, that it took a few people that ive been running ideas passed, that said "whaooo hold on, they said that"? i was so focused on getting info, that the info i was getting was actually being lost on me.
it was afterward, that when it came time to go back and read my notes, that i was actually seeing the common thread, the common wording from all that i spoke with.

it was just an overwhelming shock to my system.

i didnt say, "we ARE gearing up for Martial Law" i said that it seems to me that we are.

with all that being said, the same people that talked to me, all but one will not take or return my calls now. idk what it all means, i dont. im not saying it MEANS anything at all. im saying it struck me as.........off. and maybe opened my eyes to things i didnt see b4.

can you be certain these werent just blowhards spouting off for effect or their own amusement? sometimes an innocuous comment can get turned into something else. dont think im doubting you, im not. im just interested in the mindset involved. the US is truly a fascinating country when it comes to shit like this. its equal parts amusing-as-all-get-out and scary-as-hell.

the wolf

scb wrote:

I see your point and I understand how the reaction to fear - especially of harm coming to your loved ones - could be feeling like you need to buy a gun.

But I'm reminded of my great-grandmother's stories of the Depression. She had four kids to feed and protect. They were extremely poor like most people. And yet she always shared whatever food she had with anyone who needed it. As a matter of fact, she got more than her fair share of hobos coming to her for food so she finally asked one of them why they came to her house instead of going to her neighbors, espcially considering that she really didn't have extra food. Apparently someone had marked an X in front of her house to indicate that there lived a kind soul who wouldn't watch another person go hungry. It is my hope that, if ever faced with the same situation, I will be as good a person as my great-grandmother was.

im sure you would be. i too would like to think i would be like that. but lets face it, its a waaaaaay different time now.
i just dont think it would be like that.

again, let me say, this is not all about a depression. its the state of our country in general.

QuestionAuthority

the wolf wrote:

i was really just blown away, by just making a few phone calls stating my purpose of doing research for a book that is/was intended to be a work of fiction, and where it got me. and how many people would talk to me, though most were "off the record". i was blown away. and to be honest, i was so into the research, that it took a few people that ive been running ideas passed, that said "whaooo hold on, they said that"? i was so focused on getting info, that the info i was getting was actually being lost on me.
it was afterward, that when it came time to go back and read my notes, that i was actually seeing the common thread, the common wording from all that i spoke with.

it was just an overwhelming shock to my system.

i didnt say, "we ARE gearing up for Martial Law" i said that it seems to me that we are.

with all that being said, the same people that talked to me, all but one will not take or return my calls now. idk what it all means, i dont. im not saying it MEANS anything at all. im saying it struck me as.........off. and maybe opened my eyes to things i didnt see b4.

Dude.. I dont know you and I certainly do not intend for this to sound bitchy.. but you are sounding slightly delusional and really paranoid. Maybe you should take a break from this "book" and try focusing on all the great things in life.. rather than a BIG WHAT IF with martial law?

the wolf

catefrances wrote:

can you be certain these were just blowhards spouting off for effect or their own amusement? sometimes an innocuous comment can get turned into something else. dont think im doubting you, im not. im just interested in the mindset involved. the US is truly a fascinating country when it comes to shit like this. its equal parts amusing-as-all-get-out and scary-as-hell.

of course i cant be certain.
but your last line " its equal parts amusing-as-all-get-out and scary-as-hell."

this is what ive been seeing from all that i talk to about this. either its noway, or fuck yeah, it could happen. there has been very little middle ground.

as far as the people ive talked to ......... i really dont see what the upside is to them telling me more than they prob. should have told me.

the wolf

QuestionAuthority wrote:

Dude.. I dont know you and I certainly do not intend for this to sound bitchy.. but you are sounding slightly delusional and really paranoid. Maybe you should take a break from this "book" and try focusing on all the great things in life.. rather than a BIG WHAT IF with martial law?

thats fine. i wonder why you put book in " " really.

and martial law has very little to do with the book im writing. it was just me trying to find out a few things ( as most writers do so what they are writing can be easily digested and easy to believe ) about martial law. it was the things that i was told that made me think way different about it.

so i have been answering questions that i never intended to have to answer.

my question to you is why the "book" ?
its as if you dont believe im writing a book or something.

anyone here who knows me knows i am a writer, and knows ive been working on this book for at least the last 6 months.

catefrances

the wolf wrote:

of course i cant be certain.
but your last line " its equal parts amusing-as-all-get-out and scary-as-hell."

this is what ive been seeing from all that i talk to about this. either its noway, or fuck yeah, it could happen. there has been very little middle ground.

as far as the people ive talked to ......... i really dont see what the upside is to them telling me more than they prob. should have told me.

actually that comment was more about the general state of your country. this martial law speculative hoohah would fall into the "scary as hell cause its so amusing" category.
i just dont get the talk. the US may be many things, but a country capable of descending into martial law isnt one of them to me. not in current circumstances anyways.

the wolf

catefrances wrote:

actually that comment was more about the general state of your country. this martial law speculative hoohah would fall into the "scary as hell cause its so amusing" category.
i just dont get the talk. the US may be many things, but a country capable of descending into martial law isnt one of them to me. not in current circumstances anyways.

then why for the first time in the history of the united states, does the president now have the ability to declare martial law all on his/her own.
he would need no support to do so now. that is scary to me.
along with all the shit that came with the patriot act. we are fast becoming a place that it could happen. and for any reason the president sees fit.

unsung

scb wrote:

So property is more valuable than life, huh?

Yes. My property is more valuable than some criminal's life that is trying to steal it. If someone is in your house are you going to take the chance that they don't go and rape your 15 year old daughter or wife? How would you deal with it?

The point is they may come in for a DVD player but the threat is there to do more. I choose to end that threat and save my family.

unsung

catefrances wrote:

oh please why dont you just be a man and punch them in the face. unless theyre into that kind of kinky shit that should stop them cold.

Punch them in the face? Are you serious?

What do you do if there are three of them? Flip a coin? Negotiate?

QuestionAuthority

the wolf wrote:

thats fine. i wonder why you put book in " " really.

and martial law has very little to do with the book im writing. it was just me trying to find out a few things ( as most writers do so what they are writing can be easily digested and easy to believe ) about martial law. it was the things that i was told that made me think way different about it.

so i have been answering questions that i never intended to have to answer.

my question to you is why the "book" ?
its as if you dont believe im writing a book or something.

anyone here who knows me knows i am a writer, and knows ive been working on this book for at least the last 6 months.

Dude.. you are looking for a fight where there is none.. if you are writing a "book".. that is awesome.. although your original post posed the question as you were discussing this matter with buddies over the weekend.. REGARDLESS.. all I am saying is I think it is a bit sad when people become so consumed with crazy ass ideas such as martial law being declared due to the credit crisis that they lose sight of the important things in life..

such as the beautiful fall colors that are changing right now.. the gorgeous sunset that had the most spectacular shades of red.. ya know things in life.. things that will still be occouring with or without martial law.. you cant save up on life!

catefrances

the wolf wrote:

then why for the first time in the history of the united states, does the president now have the ability to declare martial law all on his/her own.
he would need no support to do so now. that is scary to me.
along with all the shit that came with the patriot act. we are fast becoming a place that it could happen. and for any reason the president sees fit.

well then looks like your idiot leader has got a little time up his sleeve to declare this martial law, doesnt it. im thinking maybe sometime between halloween and voting day.

can you imagine georgie thinking of something like enacting martial law by himself? which i know isnt the way its done. someone will have a quiet word in his ear and before you know it for the good of the country, the national guard will occupy every corner and hard working americans will be shot on sight just cause....its martial law.


this is my "scary-as-hell" scenario. who allowed the president such power?

catefrances

unsung wrote:

Punch them in the face? Are you serious?

What do you do if there are three of them? Flip a coin? Negotiate?

see the pokey tongue and the big smilie face? that means i wasnt serious. :rolleyes:

anways if there were 3 of them, one of them would have already taken out the biggest threat(YOU) by punching you in the face whilst you slept before hogtie-ing you in another room BEFORE you were able to grab your weapon of choice.

the wolf

QuestionAuthority wrote:

Dude.. you are looking for a fight where there is none.. if you are writing a "book".. that is awesome.. although your original post posed the question as you were discussing this matter with buddies over the weekend.. REGARDLESS.. all I am saying is I think it is a bit sad when people become so consumed with crazy ass ideas such as martial law being declared due to the credit crisis that they lose sight of the important things in life..

such as the beautiful fall colors that are changing right now.. the gorgeous sunset that had the most spectacular shades of red.. ya know things in life.. things that will still be occouring with or without martial law.. you cant save up on life!

im not looking for a fight at all calm down. ive been blasted over and over here, and unlike most have stood with it, i think that the fact that you put book in quotes and asking you why you did so is a valid question.

as far as becoming "consumed with crazy ass ideas such as martial law"
im not. i was trying to discuss it. i have a friend in the military. and you can do your reserch on this all on your own if you want. he is now on active duty INSIDE the united states. this is the first time a unit has ever been on active duty as a unit inside the united states. i asked him why.
he said, " man, you know i cant answer that. lets just say, we are here and on active duty if we are needed". you can look that up. why do we need an active duty unit here in the U.S.? one that just got back from Iraq.

this is the same guy that told me where in Iraq he was going, even though he wasnt supposed to tell me, but now, he cant tell me anything.

as far as enjoying the fall, i took my dogs to the park today for 4 hours and played with them while watching kids play football. im not consumed. im just trying to be aware of what is going on.

this is ( other than the bar/grill i was at with friends ) the only place i have even brought this up. that and the 4 people that i run ideas by as far as what im writing.

Cosmo

the wolf wrote:

then why for the first time in the history of the united states, does the president now have the ability to declare martial law all on his/her own.
he would need no support to do so now. that is scary to me.
along with all the shit that came with the patriot act. we are fast becoming a place that it could happen. and for any reason the president sees fit.

...
Because... from 2000 to 2006 there was a Republican controlled House of Representatives... a Republican controlled Senate... and a Republican President. The Wars Power Act of 2003 relenquished War Powers to the President... for going to War with Iraq, only... not for all wars. The Checks and Balances that is the foundation of our Constitution was ignored as more and more power was given to the President. This was dangerous... and remains dangerous. One person should NOT have that much power.
'The Patriot Act' was a panic response to September 11, 2001. Those directives need to be reviewed and NOT extended.
Sure... we need to protect ourselves from the monsters that want to kill us. but, we must NEVER become the monster, ourselves. When we do... we lose to the terrorists.

catefrances

the wolf wrote:

im not looking for a fight at all calm down. ive been blasted over and over here, and unlike most have stood with it, i think that the fact that you put book in quotes and asking you why you did so is a valid question.

as far as becoming "consumed with crazy ass ideas such as martial law"
im not. i was trying to discuss it. i have a friend in the military. and you can do your reserch on this all on your own if you want. he is now on active duty INSIDE the united states. this is the first time a unit has ever been on active duty as a unit inside the united states. i asked him why.
he said, " man, you know i cant answer that. lets just say, we are here and on active duty if we are needed". you can look that up. why do we need an active duty unit here in the U.S.? one that just got back from Iraq.

this is the same guy that told me where in Iraq he was going, even though he wasnt supposed to tell me, but now, he cant tell me anything.

as far as enjoying the fall, i took my dogs to the park today for 4 hours and played with them while watching kids play football. im not consumed. im just trying to be aware of what is going on.

this is ( other than the bar/grill i was at with friends ) the only place i have even brought this up. that and the 4 people that i run ideas by as far as what im writing.

active duty. is that like on stand by just in case another hurricane hits. that type of thing? or would the hurricane have to be on its way BEFORE he was called into active duty? oh wait thats the national guard isnt it?
so this mate of yours is in the real military? could it be he might be redeployed to afghanistan and thats why hes on active duty?

it is interesting nonetheless.

_

unsung wrote:

Yes. My property is more valuable than some criminal's life that is trying to steal it.

Wow. So are you saying you would kill for your family but you wouldn't steal food for them if it came to that? And if you did, you should be killed?

unsung wrote:

If someone is in your house are you going to take the chance that they don't go and rape your 15 year old daughter or wife? How would you deal with it?

The point is they may come in for a DVD player but the threat is there to do more. I choose to end that threat and save my family.

Killing to protect your family from physical harm can't be compared to killing to protect your property.

As I said before, I used to have a gun - to protect myself from being raped and murdered. And if someone broke into my house for some food or a DVD player, I would probably be so frightened that I would shoot them. And that's why I got rid of my gun. I don't want to kill anyone, particularly when they probably came just for my property and not to harm me.

A good friend of mine has a son who's a good guy and a father, but got messed up with drugs for awhile. One time he was high and needed money, so when he saw an open window in a house he stupidly decided he should climb in and get some money. He scared the shit out of the couple living there, and they held him at gunpoint until the police arrived. He never in a million years would have harmed them. He's now clean and back to being a great father, son, and member of society. God forbid he had climbed into my house when I had my gun, because I would probably have panicked and shot a harmless, unarmed man - my friend's son even. Regardless of legal rights, I couldn't live with myself if that happened. It's very sad to me that some people place such little value on life that they could.

QuestionAuthority

the wolf wrote:

im not looking for a fight at all calm down. ive been blasted over and over here, and unlike most have stood with it, i think that the fact that you put book in quotes and asking you why you did so is a valid question.

as far as becoming "consumed with crazy ass ideas such as martial law"
im not. i was trying to discuss it. i have a friend in the military. and you can do your reserch on this all on your own if you want. he is now on active duty INSIDE the united states. this is the first time a unit has ever been on active duty as a unit inside the united states. i asked him why.
he said, " man, you know i cant answer that. lets just say, we are here and on active duty if we are needed". you can look that up. why do we need an active duty unit here in the U.S.? one that just got back from Iraq.

this is the same guy that told me where in Iraq he was going, even though he wasnt supposed to tell me, but now, he cant tell me anything.

as far as enjoying the fall, i took my dogs to the park today for 4 hours and played with them while watching kids play football. im not consumed. im just trying to be aware of what is going on.

this is ( other than the bar/grill i was at with friends ) the only place i have even brought this up. that and the 4 people that i run ideas by as far as what im writing.

Answer me this..

Everything I hear is that military troop levels are at all time lows.. recruiting levels suck.. there were not even enough National Guard to help with the hurricanes that hit the coast last month.. knowing all this.. do you honestly think the government.. hell even CITY governments, local law enforcement.. do you honestly think they have enough personnel to declare martial law in America? My neighbor is a state patrol officer.. after talking to him last weekend, as he just got off his 14 hr shift he told me they are at the lowest staff they have ever had.. due to budget cuts. The state cannot afford to keep patrol officers. Sorry.. I just dont see it as a possibility of martial law being declared in the United States.

But then again.. just my opinion.

the wolf

catefrances wrote:

active duty. is that like on stand by just in case another hurricane hits. that type of thing? or would the hurricane have to be on its way BEFORE he was called into active duty? oh wait thats the national guard isnt it?
so this mate of yours is in the real military? could it be he might be redeployed to afghanistan and thats why hes on active duty?

it is interesting nonetheless.

if you read this you will get the Army's offical stance on this.

no matter the reason, its still the first time EVER that this has happened.

this comes from the Army times.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/

im not just making this shit up. im just saying what we are being told is maybe not the full truth. i actually have two friends in this unit.
one is very unhappy with his new assignment. thats all he would say about it.