Roselli is the same mafioso that a one James Files (Mr. Grassy Knoll) claims hired him to do the actual hit on Kennedy. Like i said yesterday, Files made this statement some 10 years before this document was released, implicating Roselli as a mafia hitman under contract to the CIA for the assassination of Castro.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Roselli is the same mafioso that a one James Files (Mr. Grassy Knoll) claims hired him to do the actual hit on Kennedy. Like i said yesterday, Files made this statement some 10 years before this document was released, implicating Roselli as a mafia hitman under contract to the CIA for the assassination of Castro.
Christ look at Oliver North even. He even got his own fucking TV show!?!?!
rewarded by the system for being a malicious criminal involved in conspiracy.
unreal...
But...but....they would never do that...they're just too dumb...
holy mother of God....sometimes man
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Feith: Fantastic. I love killing people in the finance industry. It's too bad the people on the lower floors will get to escape.
Cheney: It is too bad -- especially since we're going to blow up the rest of the building complex anyway.
Feith: We are?
Cheney: Yes. You see, the way I see it, our best course of action is to first crash planes into each the towers, trapping and killing those thousands on the upper floors of each building. After the impact, of course, the people on the lower floors will find their way out of the building and on to the street, where they will achieve relative safety -- at which point we'll finally detonate the massive network of explosive charges we've secretly hidden in the buildings in the weeks and months prior to the attacks.
Feith: Wait, why did we do that again?
Cheney: Because the buildings wouldn't have fallen down unless we did.
Wolfowitz: But why do we need the buildings to fall down?
Cheney: Because the events of the day will be insufficiently horrifying and impactful without the building collapses.
Feith: So why don't we detonate the charges earlier, so that we can kill the people on the lower floors, too?
Cheney: That's a good question. At some point we have to sacrifice effect for believability. You see, if the planes crash into the buildings and the buildings immediately collapse, everyone will be suspicious and they'll immediately be onto the presence of the explosives. So what we have to do is let the planes crash into the building, give the jet fuel time to start fires that will "soften" the building core, and then we detonate the charges. Afterwards, we'll be able to argue that the fires coupled with the impact actually caused the buildings to collapse.
Feith: Why will we be able to argue that? Didn't our studies show that impact and fire alone wouldn't have caused the buildings to collapse?
Cheney: Those were our secret, far-more-advanced studies, done with secret, far-more-advanced military technology. The vast majority of the world's civilian structural engineers, however, can be counted on after the incident to conclude that the buildings collapsed due to a combination of fire, impact, and the knocking off of fireproofing from the building beams.
Feith: Why can they be counted on to conclude that?
Cheney: Because that's what our secret research shows their not-secret research will show! Jesus Christ, work with me on this, will you?
Wolfowitz: I think I get it. We crash the planes, kill everyone above the impact of the planes, let the people underneath the impact out to safety, then collapse the buildings about an hour or so later using the explosives that we pointlessly incurred months and weeks worth of career- and life-threatening risk to covertly plant in a building complex visited by hundreds of thousands of people every week.
Cheney: Exactly! The actual deaths will mostly be caused by the planes. But we'll incur the massive additional risk simply to destroy the building, for effect, because it will look cool and scary on television.
Feith: I'm still confused about the our-studies and their-studies thing.
Cheney: (sighing) What's the matter, Doug?
Feith: If we know the planes won't collapse the buildings, isn't it possible that other people after the accident will figure out that the planes didn't collapse the buildings?
Cheney: Yes. But those other people will be a tiny minority of mostly non-scientists who'll deduce the whole plan by researching the matter on the internet. Their groundbreaking, visionary research, however, we can count on being ignored by the mainstream scientific community, which will continue to insist the planes caused the collapses.
Feith: Why can we count on that?
Cheney: Because the mainstream science community, like the whole of the corporate media, the Congress, the Democratic Party, even the mainstream leftist political opposition will naturally be in either conscious or unconscious assent with our plan. Most scientists, you know, depend in some form or another on government funding. So they'll be highly motivated to sign off on our dastardly mass-murder plot, since they know their salaries -- some of these people make almost a hundred thousand a year, you know -- ultimately depend on our ability to secure fifty billion additional barrels of oil per day by 2010 by fooling the population into invading Saddam Hussein's secular Iraq by faking a terrorist attack against the World Trade Center at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals loyal to the Afghan-supported terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.
Wolfowitz: No, I get it, I really do. It all makes sense.
Cheney: Also, we have to knock down WTC-7, this very building, in order to get rid of the evidence. I think it goes without saying that we'll need a command center for these operations, and I can't think of a place that would be better or more appropriate than an office right next to the point of attack. From these very offices, gentlemen, we will coordinate the military war exercises that will be held in this region on that very morning, war exercises that will so thoroughly confuse our own military that they will be unable to identify and intercept the hijacked planes we will be sending at the towers like so many deadly guided missiles.
continued...
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Kristol: But, Dick -- how can we be sure that the Air Force won't find a way to intercept the planes anyway?
Wolfowitz: I'll answer that, Dick. Irv, the best way we can guarantee that will be to issue stand-down orders in addition to implementing the war games.
Kristol: I see. We order the war games in order to stymie the Air Force intercepts we don't control, but just in case those fail, we'll control the Air Force intercepts.
Cheney: Now you're catching on.
Kristol: And the control center for those war games and for all our other plans (including the demolition) will be right here. These rooms are secret and utterly impenetrable to the general public at the moment, but after the attacks they will be vulnerable to forensic inspection by whichever city or federal agency goes through the wreckage of this doomed building.
Cheney: Exactly. That's one of the reasons I thought we should choose this space. If we chose some other spot as a base of operations -- a warehouse in Queens, say -- we might be able to keep it secure forever. But if we set up here, we can be sure some snooping official will end up poking around in the ruins. And we want that, it adds intrigue to the whole deal. Because it goes without saying that we won't be able to control all the cleanup agencies, except those that might be inclined to find our bomb fragments. Those we can count on 100%.
Kristol: Right, but still, we have to really be sure we destroy everything here. Especially all the papers and computer records of the conspiracy plans, which we will naturally leave behind, banking on the fact that they will be destroyed in the hellish conflagration.
Feith: Guys, I'm lost. You're saying we have to detonate this entire building in order to cover up the evidence of the crime?
All: Of course.
Feith: Why don't we just not leave the evidence behind and not blow up the building? Why should there be any evidence to leave behind at all?
Cheney: Doug, you're not being realistic. You always have to leave evidence of covert operations behind for the public to maybe find.
Wolfowitz: Well, except that we never have before.
Cheney: Right, except for that.
(a phone in the middle of the conference table rings. Kristol picks is up.)
Kristol: Hello? Who's this? Oh, hey, Larry. A gast in shetl! I'll put you on speaker! (cups phone, presses speaker button; addresses others) It's Larry Silverstein, the WTC landlord.
Silverstein: Hey guys! Vos makht ir?
Cheney: Not bad, Larry, how goes it?
Silverstein: In dr'erd afn dek! Just awful! But we get by, you know.
Cheney: What can we do you for, Larry?
Silverstein: Oh, hey, well, a little birdie told me that you guys were planning on blowing up my building complex and blaming it on Islamic terrorists!
Cheney: We all have our hobbies, Larry.
Silverstein: Well, naturally, you have my assent. Anything to grease the wheels of international capitalism. Also, as a landlord, I love seeing my tenants burned to death and jumping out of high windows on live television and that sort of thing. Plus, I'm a Jew, you know, I have horns. Paul, how's your family?
Wolfowitz: Oh, Larry, don't ask. Clare just last week popped her bursa sac building a sukkah. But does anyone live a life without troubles these days?
Silverstein: Things just keep getting worse and worse, you're right there. Listen, fellas, about that building complex ...
Cheney: Yes?
Silverstein: Do you think you could make sure that the WTC-7 building goes down, too? See, the thing is, I just signed a new insurance deal with Industrial Risk Insurers, this could all work out very nicely for me ...
Cheney: Larry, it's such an amazing coincidence, we were just talking about that. As it happens, we need to destroy the building to get rid of the evidence anyway. So say no more about that, we'll take care of it.
Wolfowitz: Well, say no more until it happens. Then you might just want to casually mention near a PBS camera that you're planning on "pulling" the building.
Silverstein: What does "pulling" mean?
Cheney: Well, it's not a demolition term, but some will say it is. We're thinking you might just want to make a little admission in that direction.
Silverstein: Before my insurance investigation is concluded? At exactly the time when such an admission would cost me my entire settlement? Consider it done!
All: Thanks, Larry.
Silverstein: You bet, fellas! See you on the links. Mazel tov! Oh, hey, Paul--
Wolfowitz: Yes?
Silverstein: Pull my finger, Paul! Pull it!
Wolfowitz: You bet I'll "pull it," you mensch!
Silverstein: Later!
(Silverstein hangs up)
Cheney: Well, that worked out well. I guess the only things left to really worry about are the other two planes. What do you guys think?
Kristol: Well, one plane. I'm thinking with the Pentagon, we send a missile or a drone into the building, then just tell everyone it's a plane. Just to fuck with people.
Feith: Is this going to be your basic take-the-real-plane-to-a-remote-military-base, kill-the-passengers, then-fake-their-cellphone-distress-calls-using-advanced-voice-recog-technology deals?
Kristol: That's what I'm thinking. Keep it simple, in other words.
Wolfowitz: Now I'm confused. We hire patsies to fly into the World Trade Center, but for the Pentagon, we don't use patsies?
Cheney: No. We use patsies, but just not to fly the plane. See, the patsies we choose for the Pentagon job won't actually have enough piloting skill to maneuver a plane into the Pentagon. So what we'll do is take a real passenger flight, hijack it and take it to a remote location -- say, Wright Patterson Airport in Ohio -- and then kill all the passengers on board, including the patsies, with poison gas. Then, instead of using that plane, we'll either shoot a missile or use one of those GlobalHawk drone planes to crash into the Pentagon. Then we tell everyone that it was actually the missing plane that crashed into the Pentagon.
Wolfowitz: Why don't we just get patsies who can fly a plane? Isn't that what we're doing in New York?
Cheney: It's so hard to find skilled patsies these days.
Kristol: Plus, Paul, it'll be simple. All we have to do is go to the crash site afterwards and deposit pieces of airplane wreckage, landing gear and so on, at the appropriate places ...
Cheney: That's perfect. I know exactly where we can get some airplane wreckage, too. There was an American Airlines jet that crashed in Colombia in 1995; we can take pieces of that plane and just sort of drop them on the lawn when no one is looking ... You know, just like in The Great Escape — drop them through a pantleg while whistling and looking off into the distance, and just sort of kick them around in the burning wreckage ...
Kristol: Or even better, we can drop them on the lawn from a circling C-130 after the crash. Just have someone leaning out the cargo bay with big pieces of fuselage, dropping them strategically in between the rescue workers. We can do the same thing with the body parts; we'll just take some of the bodies, barbecue them with jet fuel, and just sort of toss bits of them here and there around the site.
Cheney: That works for me. What I like about that is that it's so simple.
Wolfowitz: Okay, let me back up. Rather than just finding some patsies who can fly -- which is exactly what we'll be doing in New York -- we instead seize an actual passenger flight and remove the passengers to a remote location and kill them, disposing of the plane later. Then we attack the Pentagon and kill 100 or so of our own people with either a missile or a Global Hawk drone plane, banking on the probability that no one will see a plane shooting a missile in broad daylight of the nation's capital. Then, after we execute this attack on the Pentagon, we go back to the site and cleverly rearrange the evidence to make it look like a plane crashed there, including planting the samples of DNA of all the people we killed in Ohio or whatever. I'm not saying it doesn't sound like a good plan, but can I ask why we're doing this? If we can't find a patsy who can fly a plane, why not just not crash a plane into the Pentagon?
Cheney: What do you mean? But a plane crashes into the Pentagon. That's part of the plan.
Wolfowitz: Right, but since it's our plan and we can change it, why don't we just scuttle the entire Pentagon operation? We've already got the money shot with the Towers -- why do we need to go through all the trouble of finding hijackers who can't fly, nurturing them in the womb of ineffective government surveillance, getting them on a plane full of passengers, and then faking the deaths of all these people, telling the world they died in a plane crash that was actually a sinister attack using our own technology? I mean, so many things can go wrong. You've got to get people to sign off on the DNA reports, you've got eyewitnesses with weird stories, you've got inconsistent radar data, you've got to put stuff there for the dogs to find ...
Cheney: Don't worry about the dogs. We've got the dogs covered.
Wolfowitz: Oh, well, okay. But still -- why not just skip the whole thing?
Cheney: Are you suggesting that instead of executing hundreds of sinister, secretive, murderous sub-plans that all must go off flawlessly to together create a single underpublicized deception, that instead of that we just blow it off and go with the much larger and more spectacular World Trade Center event?
Wolfowitz: Right. Either that or find patsies who can fly.
Cheney: Hmm. Interesting. What do you guys think?
Feith: I don't know, Dick. It seems much easier just to go with the whole fake-the-flight, kill-the-passengers, fake-the-cell-phone-calls, pass-off-the-missile-attack-as-a-plane-crash thing. I can't think of any simpler way to do this plan than that.
Kristol: Yeah, Dick, frankly, neither can I. I like your plan better. It's so much more ... cloak n' daggerier!
Cheney: Well, it's settled, then. Paul, you cool?
Wolfowitz: Hey, I trust you guys, you know that.
...
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Feith: I'll get it. (grabs phone) Hello? Oh, hey, Ted, what's up! (whispering, to everyone else) It's Ted Olson. (into phone) I'll put you on speaker, okay, Ted?
Olson: 'Sup, fellas!
Cheney: 'Sup, counselor! How goes it? Talked to George much lately?
Olson: As Governor Bush's attorney, you know I can't discuss that -- even with you assholes.
(everyone laughs)
Cheney: Fair enough, What can we do you for, counselor?
Olson: Well, I don't mean to be a pest ...
Cheney: Speak up, speak up.
Olson: Well, a little birdie told me that you guys were planning on faking an airplane hijacking and shooting a drone into the Pentagon, blaming it all on Islamic terrorists!
Cheney: Sure are a lot of little birdies around these days!
Olson: I was just wondering if you could stick my wife on the plane you're thinking of hijacking.
Cheney: Barbara?
Olson: Right, Babs.
Cheney: That's no problem. Consider it done. But you've got to get her on the plane.
Olson: Shit, that won't be hard. I'll tell her I dropped a dollar in the other airport. She'll catch the first fucking flight.
Cheney: That's great. Hey, maybe, actually you could help us. After we take Babs to a military base and dispose of her fat body, can you tell the press that she called you, weeping, on her cell phone during the hijacking? It'll add verisimilitude to the whole thing.
Olson: You mean like, "Oh, my poor wife, she called me in those last dire minutes before those terrorist bastards took her life, blah blah blah," that sort of thing?
Cheney: Exactly.
Olson: Hey, I'm a lawyer, I lie for a living. Consider it done. Of course, the pain of losing Babs would be easier if ...
Cheney: You want to be Solicitor General, right?
Olson: Well, if you haven't picked one out yet.
Cheney: Ted, you can count on us.
Olson: Thanks, man. Tell your other evil plotter buddies there that I love them.
All: We love you, too, Ted.
Olson: Later!
(Olson hangs up)
Feith: Well, that worked out well.
Kristol: That only leaves the last plane, I guess.
Cheney: Right. This one -- this one I think is going to be tricky.
Feith: How so?
Cheney: Okay, bear with me on this, okay? The plane takes off. Passengers, patsies, the whole deal. The hijackers take over the plane and start steering it toward the White House. But fuck them, okay? We step in, our jets scrambled, and we blow those fuckers out of the sky.
Feith: Boom!
Cheney: Of course, we can't exactly admit that we killed American passengers, even for a good reason like this would be. So we'll dream up a story about passengers overpowering the hijackers and downing the plane themselves. "Let's roll," a wife will hear her husband say on his cell phone, as he and his brave party of vigilantes storms the cockpit ...
Wolfowitz: Oh, I see, right. Because they learned from their families, by talking with them on their cell phones, the terrible fate of the World Trade Center. So they give their lives to save the White House ...
Feith: Wow. I'm going to cry, that's so beautiful.
Cheney: In reality, though, it'll be us downing the plane with an F-16 or something. The pilots will never talk, never. Nor will the air traffic controllers ...
Kristol: Oh, I like that. It's patriotic. So why do we shoot the plane down, though?
Cheney: Well, because otherwise the hijackers will crash into the White House. But we can't admit that to the public, they'll be horrified.
Kristol: But they're not real hijackers, are they? Aren't they patsies?
Cheney: Oh, right. Shit! Man, I'm getting confused. We should probably break for lunch soon.
Wolfowitz: No, Dick, I've got that one. You see, here's the thing. Maybe the passengers really will overpower the hijackers. If that happens, it goes without saying that we have to shoot the plane down. We can't let them land, because then the hijackers will talk, and our whole evil plan will be exposed.
Cheney: Right, right, that's exactly what might happen. So it goes without saying that we have to be prepared to fake a crash site to make it look like a crash, even though it'll really be us shooting the plane down.
Kristol: But how can we prepare a phony crash site in advance if we don't even know for sure right now that the passengers will overpower the hijacker-patsies? Or where or when that will happen? That shouldn't even be entering our minds at this point.
Cheney: Well, um ... fuck. Right again. Paul?
Wolfowitz: I don't know, man, I'm getting tired at this point. But I'm down with the general idea of shooting that plane down.
Cheney: If we have to.
Wolfowitz: Right, if we have to.
Kristol: But, wait -- also, don't we want the plane to crash into the White House?
Cheney: What, are you crazy? And kill innocent Americans?
Wolfowitz: Irv, come on, now.
Kristol: Guys, we've just decided to blow up the World Trade Center. Like five minutes ago.
Cheney: Well, but the White House.
Wolfowitz: Irv, the White House. You're talking about the White House.
Kristol: Okay, whatever. You know I'm all for it, whatever we do.
Cheney: Look, the point is, we do the Towers and pin it on bin Laden. That leads us to invade Afghanistan. A year and a half later, we invade Iraq.
Feith: And we blame the whole WTC thing on Saddam.
Cheney: Right, and ... wait, what? No! No, actually we never make that connection, because none exists. I figure we can just say he's in violation of his UN restrictions, and that will be a good enough reason to invade. He is anyway, right? In violation, I mean?
Wolfowitz: I think you're right, he is!
Adapted from the forthcoming book, "The Great DerangementThe Great Derangement" by Matt Taibbi. Copyright 2008 by Matt Taibbi. Published by Spiegel & Grau, a division of Random House Inc. Reprinted with permission.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
9/11 was an inside job to me for one basic reason:
forget all the various websites and and "theories" out there and take a step back ... who ultimately has the most to gain from the events of september 11th?
approximately 3,000 dead!?? ... with all due respect to those who have lost their lives - that's a paltry number vs. what a bio-weapon at central station or some other virus can do ... or crashing the planes at the super bowl ... there is a way more effective way of imposing mass casualties then what they did ...
and some 7 years later - the ones who have truly benefited are the people involved with these neocons: defense contractors, engineering firms, oil companies, etc...
no one can say 9/11 hasn't done more for those people then anyone else ...
maybe they wouldn't have to, if you didn't suffer from diarrhea of the mouth.
It's more like he wouldn't have to if people didn't have cement of the brain.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It's more like he wouldn't have to if people didn't have cement of the brain.
Let me ask you something, what makes you believe that you know better than the rest of us. You are so full of yourself it's fucking hilarious. You think you know more than everyone here, especially those that disagree with you and yet you are probably one of the most misinformed individuals I have ever had the misfortune of wasting my time on.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Yes and JFK pulled the plug because of the risk involved. He realized that if word ever leaked it would mean the death penalty for high treason.
Yes, however it goes to show that it is not beyond the U.S. government/military to stage a fake terrorist attack on their own citizens in order to wage war on another country. Again, this was almost 50 years ago. Suddenly a 9/11 conspiracy doesn't seem so far fetched.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Yes, however it goes to show that it is not beyond the U.S. government/military to stage a fake attack on their own citizens in order to wage war on another country. Again, this was almost 50 years ago. Suddenly a 9/11 conspiracy doesn't seem so far fetched.
I never stated that it was beyond our government to do such a thing. If you look at the attack and what these 9/11 Truthers are saying transpired it is absolutely lunacy considering that the ends could have been easily achieved through far less complex and risk-ridden plans. How much easier would it have been to just plant some back packs with explosives in the NYC subway or plant some bombs on a couple of US airliners. Such actions would only take the cooperation of a few people, not several hundred to a thousand participants. far less risk, far higher degree of success and you would still be able to deceive the public into supporting your foreign policy goals.
So it's not the idea that our government would do something that I disagree with. It's the fact that they would have never even attempted to pull off something like 9/11, as the Truthers would like us to believe, simply because a far less complex operation with far less co-conspirators would have yielded the same results.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Let me ask you something, what makes you believe that you know better than the rest of us. You are so full of yourself it's fucking hilarious. You think you know more than everyone here, especially those that disagree with you and yet you are probably one of the most misinformed individuals I have ever had the misfortune of wasting my time on.
What if you're wrong and you're only fucking yourself and everyone else around you. Wouldn't that be pretty damn hilarious (and sad) also and indicative of someone so full of themselves.
Take a good look around...and err on the side of caution maybe.
Who are you getting screwed over by more?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Yes and JFK pulled the plug because of the risk involved. He realized that if word ever leaked it would mean the death penalty for high treason.
Bullets to the brain...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I never stated that it was beyond our government to do such a thing. If you look at the attack and what these 9/11 Truthers are saying transpired it is absolutely lunacy considering that the ends could have been easily achieved through far less complex and risk-ridden plans. How much easier would it have been to just plant some back packs with explosives in the NYC subway or plant some bombs on a couple of US airliners. Such actions would only take the cooperation of a few people, not several hundred to a thousand participants. far less risk, far higher degree of success and you would still be able to deceive the public into supporting your foreign policy goals.
So it's not the idea that our government would do something that I disagree with. It's the fact that they would have never even attempted to pull off something like 9/11, as the Truthers would like us to believe, simply because a far less complex operation with far less co-conspirators would have yielded the same results.
I understand what you are saying. But again, take a look at Operation Northwoods. That was an actual plan drafted by the department of defense and the joint cheifs of staff. It involved a hell of a lot of people and was extremely complex. However, this didn't stop them from trying to get approval for the operation from JFK. They obviously thought they could pull it off, even with all those people involved.
And maybe the genius of 9/11 is that it was so complex and high-risk, that people simply can't believe that it was anything other than a terrorist attack orchestrated by Al Qaeda. If Operation Northwoods had been approved and succeeded, it would have been hard for anyone, especially in those days, to believe it was anything other than an attack by Cuba.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Some like to pick and choose their govt corruption angles like changing channels on a TV.
Kinda like watching teletubbies over c-span.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
"Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war."[13]
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I understand what you are saying. But again, take a look at Operation Northwoods. That was an actual plan drafted by the department of defense and the joint cheifs of staff. It involved a hell of a lot of people and was extremely complex. However, this didn't stop them from trying to get approval for the operation from JFK. They obviously thought they could pull it off, even with all those people involved.
And maybe the genius of 9/11 is that it was so complex and high-risk, that people simply can't believe that it was anything other than a terrorist attack orchestrated by Al Qaeda. If Operation Northwoods had been approved and succeeded, it would have been hard for anyone, especially in those days, to believe it was anything other than an attack by Cuba.
All your points are valid but in that day and age they didn't have e-mails and computers with sensitive information left on them. Just think about how many times a government laptop has gone missing with important information. There is simply too much risk, when a simpler less risky operation would easily yield the same results.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
And some just have their heads so far up their own ass that they can't smell the shit they are spewing.
Sounds like someone is pointing fingers at others while describing themselves.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
All your points are valid but in that day and age they didn't have e-mails and computers with sensitive information left on them. Just think about how many times a government laptop has gone missing with important information. There is simply too much risk, when a simpler less risky operation would easily yield the same results.
Well I would think they'd be smart enough not to e-mail one another the 9/11 attack plans, lol. These people are crazy, not stupid.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Really? I thought he was spot on. Your paranoid rantings are getting tired.
two apples in a basket is all I see.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
the ineptitude of this administration is entertaining, while at the same time downright fucking scary.
It's gotten to the point as though they really don't want to do some things on purpose..
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
If you want to go for who's benefited the most, then my vote is...
...Lee Greenwood. I say he was behind the attacks. That man has gained more than anyone.
But seriously. You know that guy was in a gutter somwhere looking up at the news as those planes hit going "Sweet! Greenwood is back, baby!"
But superseriously, you truthers are motherfucking bonkers.
And you're not going to get any more of a mature, well articulated response from me. I spent a good month, when I should have been working, on the net reading various pro/con literature and getting into pointless circle-jerk debates, and I'm done. You're fucking insane, and all you do is a)rally the neocons and b)divert attention from the 10,000,000,000,000,000 other acutal atrocities this adminstration has committed and continues to commit.
Although the superdupersimplistic arguments from this Roland character have been pretty amusing. My favorite was that if you believe 9/11 was perpetuated by a bunch of Saudis/Afghans in planes, you have a moral obligation to fight in a Suni/Shi'ite civil war in Iraq. Priceless.
It seems hardly any of the truthers have commented on the original article, which does a pretty good (and humorous) job of drawing out what would have to have happened for their fairtytales to be true. Much like the brilliant South Park episode that does the same (It was the most perfect, brilliant plan ever EVER!)
Seriously, though, I'm done. I've wasted way too many of my precious seconds on this Earth even thinking about this horseshit.
Comments
Roselli is the same mafioso that a one James Files (Mr. Grassy Knoll) claims hired him to do the actual hit on Kennedy. Like i said yesterday, Files made this statement some 10 years before this document was released, implicating Roselli as a mafia hitman under contract to the CIA for the assassination of Castro.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Christ look at Oliver North even. He even got his own fucking TV show!?!?!
rewarded by the system for being a malicious criminal involved in conspiracy.
unreal...
But...but....they would never do that...they're just too dumb...
holy mother of God....sometimes man
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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maybe they wouldn't have to, if you didn't suffer from diarrhea of the mouth.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Cheney: It is too bad -- especially since we're going to blow up the rest of the building complex anyway.
Feith: We are?
Cheney: Yes. You see, the way I see it, our best course of action is to first crash planes into each the towers, trapping and killing those thousands on the upper floors of each building. After the impact, of course, the people on the lower floors will find their way out of the building and on to the street, where they will achieve relative safety -- at which point we'll finally detonate the massive network of explosive charges we've secretly hidden in the buildings in the weeks and months prior to the attacks.
Feith: Wait, why did we do that again?
Cheney: Because the buildings wouldn't have fallen down unless we did.
Wolfowitz: But why do we need the buildings to fall down?
Cheney: Because the events of the day will be insufficiently horrifying and impactful without the building collapses.
Feith: So why don't we detonate the charges earlier, so that we can kill the people on the lower floors, too?
Cheney: That's a good question. At some point we have to sacrifice effect for believability. You see, if the planes crash into the buildings and the buildings immediately collapse, everyone will be suspicious and they'll immediately be onto the presence of the explosives. So what we have to do is let the planes crash into the building, give the jet fuel time to start fires that will "soften" the building core, and then we detonate the charges. Afterwards, we'll be able to argue that the fires coupled with the impact actually caused the buildings to collapse.
Feith: Why will we be able to argue that? Didn't our studies show that impact and fire alone wouldn't have caused the buildings to collapse?
Cheney: Those were our secret, far-more-advanced studies, done with secret, far-more-advanced military technology. The vast majority of the world's civilian structural engineers, however, can be counted on after the incident to conclude that the buildings collapsed due to a combination of fire, impact, and the knocking off of fireproofing from the building beams.
Feith: Why can they be counted on to conclude that?
Cheney: Because that's what our secret research shows their not-secret research will show! Jesus Christ, work with me on this, will you?
Wolfowitz: I think I get it. We crash the planes, kill everyone above the impact of the planes, let the people underneath the impact out to safety, then collapse the buildings about an hour or so later using the explosives that we pointlessly incurred months and weeks worth of career- and life-threatening risk to covertly plant in a building complex visited by hundreds of thousands of people every week.
Cheney: Exactly! The actual deaths will mostly be caused by the planes. But we'll incur the massive additional risk simply to destroy the building, for effect, because it will look cool and scary on television.
Feith: I'm still confused about the our-studies and their-studies thing.
Cheney: (sighing) What's the matter, Doug?
Feith: If we know the planes won't collapse the buildings, isn't it possible that other people after the accident will figure out that the planes didn't collapse the buildings?
Cheney: Yes. But those other people will be a tiny minority of mostly non-scientists who'll deduce the whole plan by researching the matter on the internet. Their groundbreaking, visionary research, however, we can count on being ignored by the mainstream scientific community, which will continue to insist the planes caused the collapses.
Feith: Why can we count on that?
Cheney: Because the mainstream science community, like the whole of the corporate media, the Congress, the Democratic Party, even the mainstream leftist political opposition will naturally be in either conscious or unconscious assent with our plan. Most scientists, you know, depend in some form or another on government funding. So they'll be highly motivated to sign off on our dastardly mass-murder plot, since they know their salaries -- some of these people make almost a hundred thousand a year, you know -- ultimately depend on our ability to secure fifty billion additional barrels of oil per day by 2010 by fooling the population into invading Saddam Hussein's secular Iraq by faking a terrorist attack against the World Trade Center at the hands of a bunch of Saudi religious radicals loyal to the Afghan-supported terrorist leader Osama bin Laden.
Wolfowitz: No, I get it, I really do. It all makes sense.
Cheney: Also, we have to knock down WTC-7, this very building, in order to get rid of the evidence. I think it goes without saying that we'll need a command center for these operations, and I can't think of a place that would be better or more appropriate than an office right next to the point of attack. From these very offices, gentlemen, we will coordinate the military war exercises that will be held in this region on that very morning, war exercises that will so thoroughly confuse our own military that they will be unable to identify and intercept the hijacked planes we will be sending at the towers like so many deadly guided missiles.
continued...
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Wolfowitz: I'll answer that, Dick. Irv, the best way we can guarantee that will be to issue stand-down orders in addition to implementing the war games.
Kristol: I see. We order the war games in order to stymie the Air Force intercepts we don't control, but just in case those fail, we'll control the Air Force intercepts.
Cheney: Now you're catching on.
Kristol: And the control center for those war games and for all our other plans (including the demolition) will be right here. These rooms are secret and utterly impenetrable to the general public at the moment, but after the attacks they will be vulnerable to forensic inspection by whichever city or federal agency goes through the wreckage of this doomed building.
Cheney: Exactly. That's one of the reasons I thought we should choose this space. If we chose some other spot as a base of operations -- a warehouse in Queens, say -- we might be able to keep it secure forever. But if we set up here, we can be sure some snooping official will end up poking around in the ruins. And we want that, it adds intrigue to the whole deal. Because it goes without saying that we won't be able to control all the cleanup agencies, except those that might be inclined to find our bomb fragments. Those we can count on 100%.
Kristol: Right, but still, we have to really be sure we destroy everything here. Especially all the papers and computer records of the conspiracy plans, which we will naturally leave behind, banking on the fact that they will be destroyed in the hellish conflagration.
Feith: Guys, I'm lost. You're saying we have to detonate this entire building in order to cover up the evidence of the crime?
All: Of course.
Feith: Why don't we just not leave the evidence behind and not blow up the building? Why should there be any evidence to leave behind at all?
Cheney: Doug, you're not being realistic. You always have to leave evidence of covert operations behind for the public to maybe find.
Wolfowitz: Well, except that we never have before.
Cheney: Right, except for that.
(a phone in the middle of the conference table rings. Kristol picks is up.)
Kristol: Hello? Who's this? Oh, hey, Larry. A gast in shetl! I'll put you on speaker! (cups phone, presses speaker button; addresses others) It's Larry Silverstein, the WTC landlord.
Silverstein: Hey guys! Vos makht ir?
Cheney: Not bad, Larry, how goes it?
Silverstein: In dr'erd afn dek! Just awful! But we get by, you know.
Cheney: What can we do you for, Larry?
Silverstein: Oh, hey, well, a little birdie told me that you guys were planning on blowing up my building complex and blaming it on Islamic terrorists!
Cheney: We all have our hobbies, Larry.
Silverstein: Well, naturally, you have my assent. Anything to grease the wheels of international capitalism. Also, as a landlord, I love seeing my tenants burned to death and jumping out of high windows on live television and that sort of thing. Plus, I'm a Jew, you know, I have horns. Paul, how's your family?
Wolfowitz: Oh, Larry, don't ask. Clare just last week popped her bursa sac building a sukkah. But does anyone live a life without troubles these days?
Silverstein: Things just keep getting worse and worse, you're right there. Listen, fellas, about that building complex ...
Cheney: Yes?
Silverstein: Do you think you could make sure that the WTC-7 building goes down, too? See, the thing is, I just signed a new insurance deal with Industrial Risk Insurers, this could all work out very nicely for me ...
Cheney: Larry, it's such an amazing coincidence, we were just talking about that. As it happens, we need to destroy the building to get rid of the evidence anyway. So say no more about that, we'll take care of it.
Wolfowitz: Well, say no more until it happens. Then you might just want to casually mention near a PBS camera that you're planning on "pulling" the building.
Silverstein: What does "pulling" mean?
Cheney: Well, it's not a demolition term, but some will say it is. We're thinking you might just want to make a little admission in that direction.
Silverstein: Before my insurance investigation is concluded? At exactly the time when such an admission would cost me my entire settlement? Consider it done!
All: Thanks, Larry.
Silverstein: You bet, fellas! See you on the links. Mazel tov! Oh, hey, Paul--
Wolfowitz: Yes?
Silverstein: Pull my finger, Paul! Pull it!
Wolfowitz: You bet I'll "pull it," you mensch!
Silverstein: Later!
(Silverstein hangs up)
Cheney: Well, that worked out well. I guess the only things left to really worry about are the other two planes. What do you guys think?
Kristol: Well, one plane. I'm thinking with the Pentagon, we send a missile or a drone into the building, then just tell everyone it's a plane. Just to fuck with people.
Feith: Is this going to be your basic take-the-real-plane-to-a-remote-military-base, kill-the-passengers, then-fake-their-cellphone-distress-calls-using-advanced-voice-recog-technology deals?
Kristol: That's what I'm thinking. Keep it simple, in other words.
Wolfowitz: Now I'm confused. We hire patsies to fly into the World Trade Center, but for the Pentagon, we don't use patsies?
Cheney: No. We use patsies, but just not to fly the plane. See, the patsies we choose for the Pentagon job won't actually have enough piloting skill to maneuver a plane into the Pentagon. So what we'll do is take a real passenger flight, hijack it and take it to a remote location -- say, Wright Patterson Airport in Ohio -- and then kill all the passengers on board, including the patsies, with poison gas. Then, instead of using that plane, we'll either shoot a missile or use one of those GlobalHawk drone planes to crash into the Pentagon. Then we tell everyone that it was actually the missing plane that crashed into the Pentagon.
Wolfowitz: Why don't we just get patsies who can fly a plane? Isn't that what we're doing in New York?
Cheney: It's so hard to find skilled patsies these days.
Kristol: Plus, Paul, it'll be simple. All we have to do is go to the crash site afterwards and deposit pieces of airplane wreckage, landing gear and so on, at the appropriate places ...
Cheney: That's perfect. I know exactly where we can get some airplane wreckage, too. There was an American Airlines jet that crashed in Colombia in 1995; we can take pieces of that plane and just sort of drop them on the lawn when no one is looking ... You know, just like in The Great Escape — drop them through a pantleg while whistling and looking off into the distance, and just sort of kick them around in the burning wreckage ...
Kristol: Or even better, we can drop them on the lawn from a circling C-130 after the crash. Just have someone leaning out the cargo bay with big pieces of fuselage, dropping them strategically in between the rescue workers. We can do the same thing with the body parts; we'll just take some of the bodies, barbecue them with jet fuel, and just sort of toss bits of them here and there around the site.
Cheney: That works for me. What I like about that is that it's so simple.
Wolfowitz: Okay, let me back up. Rather than just finding some patsies who can fly -- which is exactly what we'll be doing in New York -- we instead seize an actual passenger flight and remove the passengers to a remote location and kill them, disposing of the plane later. Then we attack the Pentagon and kill 100 or so of our own people with either a missile or a Global Hawk drone plane, banking on the probability that no one will see a plane shooting a missile in broad daylight of the nation's capital. Then, after we execute this attack on the Pentagon, we go back to the site and cleverly rearrange the evidence to make it look like a plane crashed there, including planting the samples of DNA of all the people we killed in Ohio or whatever. I'm not saying it doesn't sound like a good plan, but can I ask why we're doing this? If we can't find a patsy who can fly a plane, why not just not crash a plane into the Pentagon?
Cheney: What do you mean? But a plane crashes into the Pentagon. That's part of the plan.
Wolfowitz: Right, but since it's our plan and we can change it, why don't we just scuttle the entire Pentagon operation? We've already got the money shot with the Towers -- why do we need to go through all the trouble of finding hijackers who can't fly, nurturing them in the womb of ineffective government surveillance, getting them on a plane full of passengers, and then faking the deaths of all these people, telling the world they died in a plane crash that was actually a sinister attack using our own technology? I mean, so many things can go wrong. You've got to get people to sign off on the DNA reports, you've got eyewitnesses with weird stories, you've got inconsistent radar data, you've got to put stuff there for the dogs to find ...
Cheney: Don't worry about the dogs. We've got the dogs covered.
Wolfowitz: Oh, well, okay. But still -- why not just skip the whole thing?
Cheney: Are you suggesting that instead of executing hundreds of sinister, secretive, murderous sub-plans that all must go off flawlessly to together create a single underpublicized deception, that instead of that we just blow it off and go with the much larger and more spectacular World Trade Center event?
Wolfowitz: Right. Either that or find patsies who can fly.
Cheney: Hmm. Interesting. What do you guys think?
Feith: I don't know, Dick. It seems much easier just to go with the whole fake-the-flight, kill-the-passengers, fake-the-cell-phone-calls, pass-off-the-missile-attack-as-a-plane-crash thing. I can't think of any simpler way to do this plan than that.
Kristol: Yeah, Dick, frankly, neither can I. I like your plan better. It's so much more ... cloak n' daggerier!
Cheney: Well, it's settled, then. Paul, you cool?
Wolfowitz: Hey, I trust you guys, you know that.
...
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Feith: I'll get it. (grabs phone) Hello? Oh, hey, Ted, what's up! (whispering, to everyone else) It's Ted Olson. (into phone) I'll put you on speaker, okay, Ted?
Olson: 'Sup, fellas!
Cheney: 'Sup, counselor! How goes it? Talked to George much lately?
Olson: As Governor Bush's attorney, you know I can't discuss that -- even with you assholes.
(everyone laughs)
Cheney: Fair enough, What can we do you for, counselor?
Olson: Well, I don't mean to be a pest ...
Cheney: Speak up, speak up.
Olson: Well, a little birdie told me that you guys were planning on faking an airplane hijacking and shooting a drone into the Pentagon, blaming it all on Islamic terrorists!
Cheney: Sure are a lot of little birdies around these days!
Olson: I was just wondering if you could stick my wife on the plane you're thinking of hijacking.
Cheney: Barbara?
Olson: Right, Babs.
Cheney: That's no problem. Consider it done. But you've got to get her on the plane.
Olson: Shit, that won't be hard. I'll tell her I dropped a dollar in the other airport. She'll catch the first fucking flight.
Cheney: That's great. Hey, maybe, actually you could help us. After we take Babs to a military base and dispose of her fat body, can you tell the press that she called you, weeping, on her cell phone during the hijacking? It'll add verisimilitude to the whole thing.
Olson: You mean like, "Oh, my poor wife, she called me in those last dire minutes before those terrorist bastards took her life, blah blah blah," that sort of thing?
Cheney: Exactly.
Olson: Hey, I'm a lawyer, I lie for a living. Consider it done. Of course, the pain of losing Babs would be easier if ...
Cheney: You want to be Solicitor General, right?
Olson: Well, if you haven't picked one out yet.
Cheney: Ted, you can count on us.
Olson: Thanks, man. Tell your other evil plotter buddies there that I love them.
All: We love you, too, Ted.
Olson: Later!
(Olson hangs up)
Feith: Well, that worked out well.
Kristol: That only leaves the last plane, I guess.
Cheney: Right. This one -- this one I think is going to be tricky.
Feith: How so?
Cheney: Okay, bear with me on this, okay? The plane takes off. Passengers, patsies, the whole deal. The hijackers take over the plane and start steering it toward the White House. But fuck them, okay? We step in, our jets scrambled, and we blow those fuckers out of the sky.
Feith: Boom!
Cheney: Of course, we can't exactly admit that we killed American passengers, even for a good reason like this would be. So we'll dream up a story about passengers overpowering the hijackers and downing the plane themselves. "Let's roll," a wife will hear her husband say on his cell phone, as he and his brave party of vigilantes storms the cockpit ...
Wolfowitz: Oh, I see, right. Because they learned from their families, by talking with them on their cell phones, the terrible fate of the World Trade Center. So they give their lives to save the White House ...
Feith: Wow. I'm going to cry, that's so beautiful.
Cheney: In reality, though, it'll be us downing the plane with an F-16 or something. The pilots will never talk, never. Nor will the air traffic controllers ...
Kristol: Oh, I like that. It's patriotic. So why do we shoot the plane down, though?
Cheney: Well, because otherwise the hijackers will crash into the White House. But we can't admit that to the public, they'll be horrified.
Kristol: But they're not real hijackers, are they? Aren't they patsies?
Cheney: Oh, right. Shit! Man, I'm getting confused. We should probably break for lunch soon.
Wolfowitz: No, Dick, I've got that one. You see, here's the thing. Maybe the passengers really will overpower the hijackers. If that happens, it goes without saying that we have to shoot the plane down. We can't let them land, because then the hijackers will talk, and our whole evil plan will be exposed.
Cheney: Right, right, that's exactly what might happen. So it goes without saying that we have to be prepared to fake a crash site to make it look like a crash, even though it'll really be us shooting the plane down.
Kristol: But how can we prepare a phony crash site in advance if we don't even know for sure right now that the passengers will overpower the hijacker-patsies? Or where or when that will happen? That shouldn't even be entering our minds at this point.
Cheney: Well, um ... fuck. Right again. Paul?
Wolfowitz: I don't know, man, I'm getting tired at this point. But I'm down with the general idea of shooting that plane down.
Cheney: If we have to.
Wolfowitz: Right, if we have to.
Kristol: But, wait -- also, don't we want the plane to crash into the White House?
Cheney: What, are you crazy? And kill innocent Americans?
Wolfowitz: Irv, come on, now.
Kristol: Guys, we've just decided to blow up the World Trade Center. Like five minutes ago.
Cheney: Well, but the White House.
Wolfowitz: Irv, the White House. You're talking about the White House.
Kristol: Okay, whatever. You know I'm all for it, whatever we do.
Cheney: Look, the point is, we do the Towers and pin it on bin Laden. That leads us to invade Afghanistan. A year and a half later, we invade Iraq.
Feith: And we blame the whole WTC thing on Saddam.
Cheney: Right, and ... wait, what? No! No, actually we never make that connection, because none exists. I figure we can just say he's in violation of his UN restrictions, and that will be a good enough reason to invade. He is anyway, right? In violation, I mean?
Wolfowitz: I think you're right, he is!
Adapted from the forthcoming book, "The Great DerangementThe Great Derangement" by Matt Taibbi. Copyright 2008 by Matt Taibbi. Published by Spiegel & Grau, a division of Random House Inc. Reprinted with permission.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
forget all the various websites and and "theories" out there and take a step back ... who ultimately has the most to gain from the events of september 11th?
approximately 3,000 dead!?? ... with all due respect to those who have lost their lives - that's a paltry number vs. what a bio-weapon at central station or some other virus can do ... or crashing the planes at the super bowl ... there is a way more effective way of imposing mass casualties then what they did ...
and some 7 years later - the ones who have truly benefited are the people involved with these neocons: defense contractors, engineering firms, oil companies, etc...
no one can say 9/11 hasn't done more for those people then anyone else ...
It's more like he wouldn't have to if people didn't have cement of the brain.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Operation Northwoods
US PLANNED FAKE TERROR ATTACKS ON CITIZENS
TO CREATE SUPPORT FOR CUBAN WAR
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/northwoods.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Yes and JFK pulled the plug because of the risk involved. He realized that if word ever leaked it would mean the death penalty for high treason.
Let me ask you something, what makes you believe that you know better than the rest of us. You are so full of yourself it's fucking hilarious. You think you know more than everyone here, especially those that disagree with you and yet you are probably one of the most misinformed individuals I have ever had the misfortune of wasting my time on.
Yes, however it goes to show that it is not beyond the U.S. government/military to stage a fake terrorist attack on their own citizens in order to wage war on another country. Again, this was almost 50 years ago. Suddenly a 9/11 conspiracy doesn't seem so far fetched.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
I never stated that it was beyond our government to do such a thing. If you look at the attack and what these 9/11 Truthers are saying transpired it is absolutely lunacy considering that the ends could have been easily achieved through far less complex and risk-ridden plans. How much easier would it have been to just plant some back packs with explosives in the NYC subway or plant some bombs on a couple of US airliners. Such actions would only take the cooperation of a few people, not several hundred to a thousand participants. far less risk, far higher degree of success and you would still be able to deceive the public into supporting your foreign policy goals.
So it's not the idea that our government would do something that I disagree with. It's the fact that they would have never even attempted to pull off something like 9/11, as the Truthers would like us to believe, simply because a far less complex operation with far less co-conspirators would have yielded the same results.
What if you're wrong and you're only fucking yourself and everyone else around you. Wouldn't that be pretty damn hilarious (and sad) also and indicative of someone so full of themselves.
Take a good look around...and err on the side of caution maybe.
Who are you getting screwed over by more?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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Bullets to the brain...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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I understand what you are saying. But again, take a look at Operation Northwoods. That was an actual plan drafted by the department of defense and the joint cheifs of staff. It involved a hell of a lot of people and was extremely complex. However, this didn't stop them from trying to get approval for the operation from JFK. They obviously thought they could pull it off, even with all those people involved.
And maybe the genius of 9/11 is that it was so complex and high-risk, that people simply can't believe that it was anything other than a terrorist attack orchestrated by Al Qaeda. If Operation Northwoods had been approved and succeeded, it would have been hard for anyone, especially in those days, to believe it was anything other than an attack by Cuba.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Kinda like watching teletubbies over c-span.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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"Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war."[13]
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
And some just have their heads so far up their own ass that they can't smell the shit they are spewing.
All your points are valid but in that day and age they didn't have e-mails and computers with sensitive information left on them. Just think about how many times a government laptop has gone missing with important information. There is simply too much risk, when a simpler less risky operation would easily yield the same results.
Sounds like someone is pointing fingers at others while describing themselves.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Really? I thought he was spot on. Your paranoid rantings are getting tired.
Well I would think they'd be smart enough not to e-mail one another the 9/11 attack plans, lol. These people are crazy, not stupid.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
two apples in a basket is all I see.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
the ineptitude of this administration is entertaining, while at the same time downright fucking scary.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
It's gotten to the point as though they really don't want to do some things on purpose..
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Ok, back to your debate.
that was one for the ages
no, but i do intend to. should be a hoot!
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
...Lee Greenwood. I say he was behind the attacks. That man has gained more than anyone.
But seriously. You know that guy was in a gutter somwhere looking up at the news as those planes hit going "Sweet! Greenwood is back, baby!"
But superseriously, you truthers are motherfucking bonkers.
And you're not going to get any more of a mature, well articulated response from me. I spent a good month, when I should have been working, on the net reading various pro/con literature and getting into pointless circle-jerk debates, and I'm done. You're fucking insane, and all you do is a)rally the neocons and b)divert attention from the 10,000,000,000,000,000 other acutal atrocities this adminstration has committed and continues to commit.
Although the superdupersimplistic arguments from this Roland character have been pretty amusing. My favorite was that if you believe 9/11 was perpetuated by a bunch of Saudis/Afghans in planes, you have a moral obligation to fight in a Suni/Shi'ite civil war in Iraq. Priceless.
It seems hardly any of the truthers have commented on the original article, which does a pretty good (and humorous) job of drawing out what would have to have happened for their fairtytales to be true. Much like the brilliant South Park episode that does the same (It was the most perfect, brilliant plan ever EVER!)
Seriously, though, I'm done. I've wasted way too many of my precious seconds on this Earth even thinking about this horseshit.