The Great Derangement: If Cheney & Co. Had Really Plotted the 9/11 Attacks ...

mammasan

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

not if no one believed the person/people that uncovered the plot. There's not going to be some smoking gun to convince everyone...no videotaped confession, surveillance...any of that. And everything that HAS been brought to light that doesn't add up or even make sense is quickly dismissed without reasonable discussion or thought. So 'how exactly could anyone discover their plot and get people to actually believe them?' should be your question.

What would it take for you to believe it was an inside job?

It's not a question of believing that they did it. I know they are capable of it. The issue is why take the risk of getting caught when someone will do it for you . These people are far too smart to allow themselves even the slightest possibility of getting caught when there was a perfectly capable patsy to do the dirty work for them. Like I said all they had to do was to make sure that no one connected the dots and let history take it's course. No need to even get your hands dirty.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

The most surveiled building in the world...can't get a decent camera shot. except some cheapo 3 frames from a fisher price camera.

release the video

no

release the other videos you confiscated then...

no

release the rest of the evidence and pictures being withheld from the 9/11 comission

no

ok....preserve and the crime scene, so it can be studied in depth

no...were melting it all down immediately except for some token pieces. via GPS tracking and police escort...all the way over to China to make pop cans...and what not...

on and on months and months...release the evidence

no

...and still no...

Abookamongstthemany

mammasan wrote:

It's not a question of believing that they did it. I know they are capable of it. The issue is why take the risk of getting caught when someone will do it for you . These people are far too smart to allow themselves even the slightest possibility of getting caught when there was a perfectly capable patsy to do the dirty work for them. Like I said all they had to do was to make sure that no one connected the dots and let history take it's course. No need to even get your hands dirty.

What I'm saying is there's a lot of info out there points in other directions but it is only circumstantial. None of it matters to them though because they know they don't have anything to worry about...they have the press on their side always.

And also, you guys go from 'too smart' to 'inept' far too often in these arguments...I think you should stick with just one to have consistency here.

mammasan

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I've seen what they are doing to people in this country and all over the world. I have no doubt in my mind that they don't give a shit about the lives of others.

It all boils down to what they can get people to think and we already know they have the media in their back pocket.

True but in this day and age of cell phone cameras and alternative news sources it would be extremely difficult to manipulate all the information coming out. Just think of it this way if you are planning to commit a crime you are going to make damn sure that all angles are covered you don't want to leave anything, or at least leave as little as possible, up to chance. There was way too much left up to chance in an operation like this. The risk of detection was too high and you know as well as I know that if the plan was detected people would have been storming the White House. Too risky especially, and I know I sound like a broken record at this point, when there was someone else willing to do it.

mammasan

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

What I'm saying is there's a lot of info out there points in other directions but it is only circumstantial. None of it matters to them though because they know they don't have anything to worry about...they have the press on their side always.

And also, you guys go from 'too smart' to 'inept' far too often in these arguments...I think you should stick with just one to have consistency here.

Well the government is inept but that doesn't mean that the people at the reigns are as well. They know exactly what they are doing.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mammasan wrote:

You do realize the amount of time and effort it takes to prep a building for a controlled demolition. There is no way that anyone one, not even the US government, can pull that off without people noticing. A building has to be completely sealed off so that no one, except for the demo experts, accidentally sets off one of the blasting caps. With approximately 50,000 people working in those building the chance that someone would have noticed all the equipment or accidentally triggered a blasting cap, even extreme heat can set off a blasting cap. All of the Alex Jones disciples can put this to rest because it didn't happen.

The US government may have ignored the warning signs or they where to inept to notice them. They used this tragedy as an opportunity to push their agenda but they did not execute the attacks. They did not purposely demo WTC 1, 2 or 7.

The elevator shafts had maintenance crews coming and going for something like 8 months. If I've read correctly, I remember reading that every floor had a crawl space in between it in which to access the framework of the building. It's been a while but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that..

Abookamongstthemany

mammasan wrote:

True but in this day and age of cell phone cameras and alternative news sources it would be extremely difficult to manipulate all the information coming out. Just think of it this way if you are planning to commit a crime you are going to make damn sure that all angles are covered you don't want to leave anything, or at least leave as little as possible, up to chance. There was way too much left up to chance in an operation like this. The risk of detection was too high and you know as well as I know that if the plan was detected people would have been storming the White House. Too risky especially, and I know I sound like a broken record at this point, when there was someone else willing to do it.

People have released questionable phone calls and video on youtube and eleswhere. You guys immediately dismiss it just because it's on youtube. What did you think would happen, it would end on on the 6 o'clock news?

You don't even know that there was anyone willing to do this...having one's homeland blown to bits by the world's only superpower armed with mountains of nuclear and chemical weapons and having our nation's disdain for Arab people grow tenfold is something to think long and hard about, I would think. It's the same kind of scenario with having to believe people inside our own govt would knock off 3,000 of it's own people....only all out war in the middle east is going have FAAAAAR more causalities than just that.

Abookamongstthemany

mammasan wrote:

Well the government is inept but that doesn't mean that the people at the reigns are as well. They know exactly what they are doing.

Exactly.

Cosmo

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

sometimes i feel like EVERYONE here has my name on IGNORE.

READ IT.
Answer the question,
then tell me if 911 is still not probably an inside job.

How do you guys fail to see reality staring at you plane in the face with documents to support it?

???
"these people" aren't fucking stupid.
If you guys really think that, you may want to look in the mirror with that attitude.

BTW, Item #3 in the FAMILY JEWELS is : PROJECT MOCKINGBIRD.
They admit that OVER 200 news agents in the mainstream media were CIA ASSETS.
Your entire news media lied to you about JFK 40some years ago, and they did it again with 911.

The CIA ADMITS it.
READ THE DOCUMENTS, GODDAMNIT!

...
I don't think they are stupid... I think that are inept and arrogant. Like... I know some really smart engineers here at work... but their arrogant self-assessment leads them to making some real boneheads decisions (the inept part).
And a Presidential assassination is something within the realm of belief. But, the September 11, 2001 attacks is a huge endevour that would involve hundreds, if not thousands to participate in.
And the White House leaks a sieve... with all of the fuck ups that have occurred since 2001... someone would have popped off by now. The one most likely to shout it out in arrogance... Dickhead Cheney.

my2hands

sweetpotato wrote:

For all you 9/11 conspiracy nuts...


If Cheney & Co. Had Really Plotted the 9/11 Attacks...
By Matt Taibbi
Posted on May 19, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/story/85723/

The following is an adapted excerpt from Matt Taibbi's new book, "The Great Derangement" (Spiegel and Grau, 2008).

The 9/11 Truth movement is really distinguished by a kind of defiant unfamiliarity with the actual character of America's ruling class. In 9/11 lore the people who staff the White House, the security agencies, the Pentagon and groups like PNAC and the Council of Foreign Relations are imagined to be a monolithic, united class of dastardly, swashbuckling risk-takers with permanent hard-ons for Bourne Supremacy-style "false flag" and "black bag" operations, instead of the mundanely greedy, risk-averse, backstabbing, lawn-tending, half-clever suburban golfers they are in real life. It completely misunderstands the nature of American government -- fails to see that the old maxim about "the business of America is business" is absolutely true, that the federal government in this country is really just a lo-rent time-share property seasonally occupied by this or that clan of financial interests, each of which takes its 4-year turn at the helm tinkering with the tax laws and regulatory code and the rates at the Fed in the way it thinks will best keep the money train rolling.

The people who really run America don't send the likes of George Bush and Dick Cheney to the White House to cook up boat-rocking, maniacal world-domination plans and commit massive criminal conspiracies on live national television; they send them there to repeal PUCHA and dole out funds for the F-22 and pass energy bills with $14 billion tax breaks and slash fuel efficiency standards and do all the other shit that never makes the papers but keeps Wall Street and the country's corporate boardrooms happy. You don't elect politicians to commit crimes; you elect politicians to make your crimes legal. That is the whole purpose of the racket of government. Another other use of it would be a terrible investment, and the financial class in this country didn't get to where it is by betting on the ability of a president whose lips move when he reads to blow up two Manhattan skyscrapers in broad daylight without getting caught.

But according to 9/11 Truth lore, the financial patrons of democratic government were game for exactly that sort of gamble. According to the movement, the Powers That Be in the year 2000 spent $200 million electing George Bush and Dick Cheney because they were insufficiently impressed with the docility of the American population. What was needed, apparently, was a mass distraction, a gruesome mass murder that would whip the American population into a war frenzy. The same people who had managed in the 2000 election to sell billionaire petro-royalist George Bush as an ordinary down-to-earth ranch hand apparently so completely lacked confidence in their own propaganda skills that they resorted to ordering a mass murder on American soil as a way of cajoling America to go to war against a second-rate tyrant like Saddam Hussein. As if getting America to support going to war even against innocent countries had ever been hard before!

The truly sad thing about the 9/11 Truth movement is that it's based upon the wildly erroneous proposition that our leaders would ever be frightened enough of public opinion to feel the need to pull off this kind of stunt before acting in a place like Afghanistan or Iraq. At its heart, 9/11 Truth is a conceit, a narcissistic pipe dream for a dingbat, sheeplike population that is pleased to imagine itself dangerous and ungovernable. Rather than admit to their own powerlessness and irrelevance, or admit that they've spent the last fifty years or so electing leaders who openly handed their tax money to business cronies and golfed in Scotland while middle America's jobs were being sent overseas, the adherents to 9/11 Truth instead flatter themselves with fantasies about a ruling class obsessed with keeping the terrible truth from the watchful, exacting eye of The People.

Whereas the real conspiracy of power in America is right out in the open and always has been, only nobody cares, so long as Fear Factor and Baseball Tonight come on a the right times. A conspiracy like the one described by 9/11 Truth would only be necessary in a country where the people are a threat to actually govern themselves effectively.

But none of that even matters nearly as much as what 9/11 Truth says about the mental state of the population. The whole narrative of the movement is so completely and utterly retarded, it boggles the mind. It's like something cooked up by a bunch of teenagers raised on texting, TV and Sports Illustrated who just saw V For Vendetta for the first time and decided to write a Penguin History of the World on the strength of it. A genius on the order of a Mozart or a Shakespeare would be hard-pressed to dream up the awesome comedy that is the alleged plot from the point of view of the plotters. If there was such a conspiracy, remember, something like the following conversation would have had to have taken place:

April, 1999, World Trade Center building 7, New York, NY. A secret meeting of the Project for a New American Century. In attendance are Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Irv Kristol, and ... others. Cheney, standing at the head of the table and glaring downward, addresses the group:


Cheney: Gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads.

Kristol: (whispering to Feith) I love it when we stand at a crossroads!

Feith: (giggling) Me, too. But I never know what to wear.

Cheney: Do you assholes mind?

Kristol: Sorry, Dick.

Feith: Me, too.

Cheney: Okay. (Clears throat). As I was saying, gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads ...

Kristol: (in Bill Murray-esque fashion, mimicking suspense-movie soundtrack) Dunh-dunh-dunh!

Feith: Dunh-dunh-dunh! Dunh ... duh-duh-dunh!

Cheney: Oh, for fuck's sake.

Kristol: (laughing) Okay, seriously, Dick, I'm sorry.

Feith: (still laughing) Duh-duh-duh ... .

Kristol: Shhh!

Feith: Okay, okay. (to Cheney) No, it's okay, Dick, you can go on.

Cheney: You're sure? No more jokes to make? Guys want to do your goddamn Katherine Hepburn impersonations or something?

Kristol: (Channeling "On Golden Pond") Come on, Norman! Hurry up! The loons, the loons!

Feith: (whispering) Shut up, for Christ's sake! (to Cheney) Our lips are sealed, Dick. Honest.

Cheney: Okay. Jesus. As I was saying ... we, uh, stand at a crossroads. (Pauses warily, continues). As we head into the next millenium, America is the world's preeminent military and economic power, but the ground is not exactly solid beneath us. We are the inheritors of a great historical mantle, gentlemen, the rulers of the world's energy supply and therefore the rulers of world commerce. It is a mantle we inherited from the British, who rose to world power on a bed of coal, who in turn inherited it from the Dutch, who put a chokehold on Europe with their fleet of whaling ships. Our turn began when a discovery was made a little place called Oil Creek near Titusville, Pennsylvania in 1859 ...

Wolfowitz: Dick, you can skip all that stuff. We had our Standard Oil theme party just six months ago. Lynne made the squid ink risotto, don't you remember?

Cheney: Right. Well, the point is ... I think we all know about Marion King Hubbert's projections about the future of oil reserves. We all know the deal: in every oil field there comes a time when half of the field's reachable oil has been extracted. After that point, exploitation becomes more and more expensive; as time goes on, it requires more and more energy just to extract one barrel of oil. Eventually, oil extraction becomes uneconomic, which is to say it requires a barrel of oil's worth of energy to extract a barrel of oil. When that time comes, gentlemen, our oil-based empire is fucked. And the clock begins ticking in that direction once we pass that halfway point with the world's oil reserves. Once oil "peaks," America -- an empire whose power is based almost entirely upon its oil dominance -- will officially be on the decline.

Feith: Yeah. And it doesn't help that the only reason the dollar is worth more than the peso is that OPEC still trades in dollars.

Cheney: Exactly. Without oil, we're like Bangladesh with fat people. And here's the problem: that failsafe point is upon us. I think we all know the oil production in the lower 48 states peaked in 1970, that Alaskan oil production peaked in 1988, Russia around the same time. Saudi Arabia may be just years from peaking, and in any case our political situation there is tenuous at best. Our guys at Halliburton now estimate that worldwide oil and gas production from existing reserves is declining by about 4 to 6 percent every year ...

Wolfowitz: So what's your point? We're all old anyway. Who cares what happens 20 years from now?

Cheney: The point, Paul, is that the American empire as we know it will collapse within 20-30 years unless we find massive new supplies of oil and find them fast. By 2010 we're going to need to find fifty million additional barrels of oil per day. And there's only one place where we can get that much oil ...

Kristol: Sweden!

Feith: Of course. Let's invade! I hate those goddamn speed-skaters anyway.

Cheney: No, you assholes, not Sweden. Iraq. It's the only major oil-rich state whose reserves haven't been mostly exploited. There's probably seven million barrels a day minimum just sitting in those fields -- and the worst thing is, unless we get in there soon, it's all going to go to the French, the Russians and the Germans, since Saddam will sell to all of them long before he deals with us, assuming his UN sanctions get lifted at some point.

Wolfowitz: My God.

Cheney: So it's clear we've got to get in there. Are we agreed on this?

All: Agreed.

Cheney: All right. Well, I've got a plan.

Wolfowitz: We get George elected in 2000 and go in, right? Tell the public Saddam's in violation of his UN restrictions or some shit like that? He is anyway, isn't he?

Cheney: No, that would never work. The public would never stand for it.

(Everyone bursts out laughing)

Cheney: Seriously.

Wolfowitz: Oh, wait -- you're serious?

Cheney: Absolutely. No, I think the way to go is to cook up some kind of justification. Something that will really get the public behind the invasion ...

Feith: I know! We go to the UN, show bogus photos of Saddam's secret store of chemical and biological weapons, evidence of his nuclear weapons program. Tell the world he's planning to attack.

Cheney: No. Not emotional enough. I mean something really hot ...

Kristol: It could be a human-rights thing. Some emergency, like he's gassing Kurds again or something. That worked for Clinton in Kosovo. I mean, who gave a shit about Albanians, right? I wouldn't know an Albanian if I caught one in bed with my wife. But that whole rape-camp thing was good enough by a mile to start that war.

Cheney: No, no, that's not vivid enough, not Band of Brothers enough. We need the people all lathered up, their mouths full of spittle, howling for blood, like pit bulls. You guys need to think to scale, think big, think like Michael Bay.

Feith: Michael Bay, Jesus. Okay, okay, what, then?

Cheney: We bomb the World Trade Center.

Kristol: Perfect! And blame it on Saddam!

Cheney: No, we bomb the World Trade Center and blame it on Osama bin Laden.

Feith: Oh. How?

Cheney: Easy. First, we cultivate 19 suicidal Muslim patsies from a variety of Middle Eastern countries, I'd say mostly from Saudi Arabia. We bring them to the U.S., train them at U.S. flight schools. They should be high-profile terrorist suspects who are magically given free reign by the security agencies to travel back and forth to various terrorist training camps to study passenger jet piloting. Actually that process is already underway now. Our friends in the Clinton administration are seeing to it that four groups of Arab men are being brought along by the FBI and the CIA.

Wolfowitz: How is it that the Clinton administration is already helping us with this, when we haven't even planned this yet?

Cheney: They just are. Okay?

Wolfowitz: Okay, fine. And what do we do with these hijackers?

Cheney: We sit idly by while they plot to hijack a series of passenger jet planes and crash them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the White House.

Wolfowitz: And how do we get them to do that?

Cheney: We just do. You see, we worked with these people back in the old mujahadeen days in Afghanistan. So naturally we're still thick as thieves with them.

Feith: Oh, of course. So we get them to fly into these buildings. And the impact from the planes will bring down the World Trade Center.

Cheney: No, Doug, dammit, you're not following me. The impact from the planes most certainly won't be sufficient to knock down the Towers. We know this because we've privately conducted studies which show that the Towers will easily be able to withstand impact by two jets loaded to the gills with jet fuel. That said, the jets will likely cause skyscraper fires hot enough to kill everyone above the point of impact; we're going to have to assume, of course, that the exits from the higher floors to the lower floors will be mostly blocked after the collisions. So assuming we crash the planes about two-thirds of the way up each of the towers early on a business day, we're looking at trapping and killing a good three, four, maybe even five thousand people on the upper floors.

Feith: Fantastic. I love killing people in the finance industry. It's too bad the people on the lower floors will get to escape...


continued at: http://www.alternet.org/story/85723/

thanks for posting that... i was almost in tears reading that, great stuff!


"but why use patsies to fly planes in new york and then a missile in DC, why not use patsies to fly the dc flight?"

cheney ~ "just to fuck with people"

(loose quotes)

mammasan

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

The elevator shafts had maintenance crews coming and going for something like 8 months. If I've read correctly, I remember reading that every floor had a crawl space in between it in which to access the framework of the building. It's been a while but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that..

There is a crawl space between every floor, well at least there was. Like Cosmo said an operation of this magnitude would take a lot of people to pull it off. The chances of something going wrong or the public finding out the government was behind it all was too great. Yes there are inconsistancies in the governments "official" version of the story. I'm not debating that but if you look at this logically, and I'm not saying that you guys are not logical, you would see that there was no need for the US government to do this. Why pull off something so damn elaborate with so much risk of failure or exposure when all you would have to do is plant a few bombs in the NYC subway or on a couple of US airliners and take them down. You would still achieve the same affect with a far less degree of failure or exposure. These attacks where carried out by Al Qaida and the US government either didn't connect the dots on purpose or simply because they where to inept to do so. I believe it was done with some degree of intention in order for the attacks to happen so they had justification to go to war. The inconsistancies in their version of the story is simply a means to cover up that fact.

ledvedderman

I don't really know where I stand on the whole 9/11 Truth. Do I think it went down as we were told in the 9/11 Commission Report? No. Do I buy the "Let's Roll" story? Not at all. There's no doubt in my mind that that flight was shot down. Do I think Bush and Cheney masterminded this? Not a chance. Have they exploited the events and the victims? Without doubt.

The thing that really makes me think there is more to it is WTC 7. I just don't see how that building could possibly come down like that hours after the other buildings and with only some spot fires inside.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

sweetpotato wrote:

For all you 9/11 conspiracy nuts...


If Cheney & Co. Had Really Plotted the 9/11 Attacks...
By Matt Taibbi
Posted on May 19, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/story/85723/

The following is an adapted excerpt from Matt Taibbi's new book, "The Great Derangement" (Spiegel and Grau, 2008).

The 9/11 Truth movement is really distinguished by a kind of defiant unfamiliarity with the actual character of America's ruling class. In 9/11 lore the people who staff the White House, the security agencies, the Pentagon and groups like PNAC and the Council of Foreign Relations are imagined to be a monolithic, united class of dastardly, swashbuckling risk-takers with permanent hard-ons for Bourne Supremacy-style "false flag" and "black bag" operations, instead of the mundanely greedy, risk-averse, backstabbing, lawn-tending, half-clever suburban golfers they are in real life. It completely misunderstands the nature of American government -- fails to see that the old maxim about "the business of America is business" is absolutely true, that the federal government in this country is really just a lo-rent time-share property seasonally occupied by this or that clan of financial interests, each of which takes its 4-year turn at the helm tinkering with the tax laws and regulatory code and the rates at the Fed in the way it thinks will best keep the money train rolling.

The people who really run America don't send the likes of George Bush and Dick Cheney to the White House to cook up boat-rocking, maniacal world-domination plans and commit massive criminal conspiracies on live national television; they send them there to repeal PUCHA and dole out funds for the F-22 and pass energy bills with $14 billion tax breaks and slash fuel efficiency standards and do all the other shit that never makes the papers but keeps Wall Street and the country's corporate boardrooms happy. You don't elect politicians to commit crimes; you elect politicians to make your crimes legal. That is the whole purpose of the racket of government. Another other use of it would be a terrible investment, and the financial class in this country didn't get to where it is by betting on the ability of a president whose lips move when he reads to blow up two Manhattan skyscrapers in broad daylight without getting caught.

But according to 9/11 Truth lore, the financial patrons of democratic government were game for exactly that sort of gamble. According to the movement, the Powers That Be in the year 2000 spent $200 million electing George Bush and Dick Cheney because they were insufficiently impressed with the docility of the American population. What was needed, apparently, was a mass distraction, a gruesome mass murder that would whip the American population into a war frenzy. The same people who had managed in the 2000 election to sell billionaire petro-royalist George Bush as an ordinary down-to-earth ranch hand apparently so completely lacked confidence in their own propaganda skills that they resorted to ordering a mass murder on American soil as a way of cajoling America to go to war against a second-rate tyrant like Saddam Hussein. As if getting America to support going to war even against innocent countries had ever been hard before!

The truly sad thing about the 9/11 Truth movement is that it's based upon the wildly erroneous proposition that our leaders would ever be frightened enough of public opinion to feel the need to pull off this kind of stunt before acting in a place like Afghanistan or Iraq. At its heart, 9/11 Truth is a conceit, a narcissistic pipe dream for a dingbat, sheeplike population that is pleased to imagine itself dangerous and ungovernable. Rather than admit to their own powerlessness and irrelevance, or admit that they've spent the last fifty years or so electing leaders who openly handed their tax money to business cronies and golfed in Scotland while middle America's jobs were being sent overseas, the adherents to 9/11 Truth instead flatter themselves with fantasies about a ruling class obsessed with keeping the terrible truth from the watchful, exacting eye of The People.

Whereas the real conspiracy of power in America is right out in the open and always has been, only nobody cares, so long as Fear Factor and Baseball Tonight come on a the right times. A conspiracy like the one described by 9/11 Truth would only be necessary in a country where the people are a threat to actually govern themselves effectively.

But none of that even matters nearly as much as what 9/11 Truth says about the mental state of the population. The whole narrative of the movement is so completely and utterly retarded, it boggles the mind. It's like something cooked up by a bunch of teenagers raised on texting, TV and Sports Illustrated who just saw V For Vendetta for the first time and decided to write a Penguin History of the World on the strength of it. A genius on the order of a Mozart or a Shakespeare would be hard-pressed to dream up the awesome comedy that is the alleged plot from the point of view of the plotters. If there was such a conspiracy, remember, something like the following conversation would have had to have taken place:

April, 1999, World Trade Center building 7, New York, NY. A secret meeting of the Project for a New American Century. In attendance are Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Irv Kristol, and ... others. Cheney, standing at the head of the table and glaring downward, addresses the group:


Cheney: Gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads.

Kristol: (whispering to Feith) I love it when we stand at a crossroads!

Feith: (giggling) Me, too. But I never know what to wear.

Cheney: Do you assholes mind?

Kristol: Sorry, Dick.

Feith: Me, too.

Cheney: Okay. (Clears throat). As I was saying, gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads ...

Kristol: (in Bill Murray-esque fashion, mimicking suspense-movie soundtrack) Dunh-dunh-dunh!

Feith: Dunh-dunh-dunh! Dunh ... duh-duh-dunh!

Cheney: Oh, for fuck's sake.

Kristol: (laughing) Okay, seriously, Dick, I'm sorry.

Feith: (still laughing) Duh-duh-duh ... .

Kristol: Shhh!

Feith: Okay, okay. (to Cheney) No, it's okay, Dick, you can go on.

Cheney: You're sure? No more jokes to make? Guys want to do your goddamn Katherine Hepburn impersonations or something?

Kristol: (Channeling "On Golden Pond") Come on, Norman! Hurry up! The loons, the loons!

Feith: (whispering) Shut up, for Christ's sake! (to Cheney) Our lips are sealed, Dick. Honest.

Cheney: Okay. Jesus. As I was saying ... we, uh, stand at a crossroads. (Pauses warily, continues). As we head into the next millenium, America is the world's preeminent military and economic power, but the ground is not exactly solid beneath us. We are the inheritors of a great historical mantle, gentlemen, the rulers of the world's energy supply and therefore the rulers of world commerce. It is a mantle we inherited from the British, who rose to world power on a bed of coal, who in turn inherited it from the Dutch, who put a chokehold on Europe with their fleet of whaling ships. Our turn began when a discovery was made a little place called Oil Creek near Titusville, Pennsylvania in 1859 ...

Wolfowitz: Dick, you can skip all that stuff. We had our Standard Oil theme party just six months ago. Lynne made the squid ink risotto, don't you remember?

Cheney: Right. Well, the point is ... I think we all know about Marion King Hubbert's projections about the future of oil reserves. We all know the deal: in every oil field there comes a time when half of the field's reachable oil has been extracted. After that point, exploitation becomes more and more expensive; as time goes on, it requires more and more energy just to extract one barrel of oil. Eventually, oil extraction becomes uneconomic, which is to say it requires a barrel of oil's worth of energy to extract a barrel of oil. When that time comes, gentlemen, our oil-based empire is fucked. And the clock begins ticking in that direction once we pass that halfway point with the world's oil reserves. Once oil "peaks," America -- an empire whose power is based almost entirely upon its oil dominance -- will officially be on the decline.

Feith: Yeah. And it doesn't help that the only reason the dollar is worth more than the peso is that OPEC still trades in dollars.

Cheney: Exactly. Without oil, we're like Bangladesh with fat people. And here's the problem: that failsafe point is upon us. I think we all know the oil production in the lower 48 states peaked in 1970, that Alaskan oil production peaked in 1988, Russia around the same time. Saudi Arabia may be just years from peaking, and in any case our political situation there is tenuous at best. Our guys at Halliburton now estimate that worldwide oil and gas production from existing reserves is declining by about 4 to 6 percent every year ...

Wolfowitz: So what's your point? We're all old anyway. Who cares what happens 20 years from now?

Cheney: The point, Paul, is that the American empire as we know it will collapse within 20-30 years unless we find massive new supplies of oil and find them fast. By 2010 we're going to need to find fifty million additional barrels of oil per day. And there's only one place where we can get that much oil ...

Kristol: Sweden!

Feith: Of course. Let's invade! I hate those goddamn speed-skaters anyway.

Cheney: No, you assholes, not Sweden. Iraq. It's the only major oil-rich state whose reserves haven't been mostly exploited. There's probably seven million barrels a day minimum just sitting in those fields -- and the worst thing is, unless we get in there soon, it's all going to go to the French, the Russians and the Germans, since Saddam will sell to all of them long before he deals with us, assuming his UN sanctions get lifted at some point.

Wolfowitz: My God.

Cheney: So it's clear we've got to get in there. Are we agreed on this?

All: Agreed.

Cheney: All right. Well, I've got a plan.

Wolfowitz: We get George elected in 2000 and go in, right? Tell the public Saddam's in violation of his UN restrictions or some shit like that? He is anyway, isn't he?

Cheney: No, that would never work. The public would never stand for it.

(Everyone bursts out laughing)

Cheney: Seriously.

Wolfowitz: Oh, wait -- you're serious?

Cheney: Absolutely. No, I think the way to go is to cook up some kind of justification. Something that will really get the public behind the invasion ...

Feith: I know! We go to the UN, show bogus photos of Saddam's secret store of chemical and biological weapons, evidence of his nuclear weapons program. Tell the world he's planning to attack.

Cheney: No. Not emotional enough. I mean something really hot ...

Kristol: It could be a human-rights thing. Some emergency, like he's gassing Kurds again or something. That worked for Clinton in Kosovo. I mean, who gave a shit about Albanians, right? I wouldn't know an Albanian if I caught one in bed with my wife. But that whole rape-camp thing was good enough by a mile to start that war.

Cheney: No, no, that's not vivid enough, not Band of Brothers enough. We need the people all lathered up, their mouths full of spittle, howling for blood, like pit bulls. You guys need to think to scale, think big, think like Michael Bay.

Feith: Michael Bay, Jesus. Okay, okay, what, then?

Cheney: We bomb the World Trade Center.

Kristol: Perfect! And blame it on Saddam!

Cheney: No, we bomb the World Trade Center and blame it on Osama bin Laden.

Feith: Oh. How?

Cheney: Easy. First, we cultivate 19 suicidal Muslim patsies from a variety of Middle Eastern countries, I'd say mostly from Saudi Arabia. We bring them to the U.S., train them at U.S. flight schools. They should be high-profile terrorist suspects who are magically given free reign by the security agencies to travel back and forth to various terrorist training camps to study passenger jet piloting. Actually that process is already underway now. Our friends in the Clinton administration are seeing to it that four groups of Arab men are being brought along by the FBI and the CIA.

Wolfowitz: How is it that the Clinton administration is already helping us with this, when we haven't even planned this yet?

Cheney: They just are. Okay?

Wolfowitz: Okay, fine. And what do we do with these hijackers?

Cheney: We sit idly by while they plot to hijack a series of passenger jet planes and crash them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the White House.

Wolfowitz: And how do we get them to do that?

Cheney: We just do. You see, we worked with these people back in the old mujahadeen days in Afghanistan. So naturally we're still thick as thieves with them.

Feith: Oh, of course. So we get them to fly into these buildings. And the impact from the planes will bring down the World Trade Center.

Cheney: No, Doug, dammit, you're not following me. The impact from the planes most certainly won't be sufficient to knock down the Towers. We know this because we've privately conducted studies which show that the Towers will easily be able to withstand impact by two jets loaded to the gills with jet fuel. That said, the jets will likely cause skyscraper fires hot enough to kill everyone above the point of impact; we're going to have to assume, of course, that the exits from the higher floors to the lower floors will be mostly blocked after the collisions. So assuming we crash the planes about two-thirds of the way up each of the towers early on a business day, we're looking at trapping and killing a good three, four, maybe even five thousand people on the upper floors.

Feith: Fantastic. I love killing people in the finance industry. It's too bad the people on the lower floors will get to escape...


continued at: http://www.alternet.org/story/85723/

thank you.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mammasan wrote:

There is a crawl space between every floor, well at least there was. Like Cosmo said an operation of this magnitude would take a lot of people to pull it off. The chances of something going wrong or the public finding out the government was behind it all was too great. Yes there are inconsistancies in the governments "official" version of the story. I'm not debating that but if you look at this logically, and I'm not saying that you guys are not logical, you would see that there was no need for the US government to do this. Why pull off something so damn elaborate with so much risk of failure or exposure when all you would have to do is plant a few bombs in the NYC subway or on a couple of US airliners and take them down. You would still achieve the same affect with a far less degree of failure or exposure. These attacks where carried out by Al Qaida and the US government either didn't connect the dots on purpose or simply because they where to inept to do so. I believe it was done with some degree of intention in order for the attacks to happen so they had justification to go to war. The inconsistancies in their version of the story is simply a means to cover up that fact.

You're making assumptions that it's impossible while it clearly was physically possible to do.

Do you think Americans had to do it? It's not a pre-requisite for the job. Even so, they didn't have to be told why, just that the buildings were being wired up. People can be mind controlled to do anything. Then it's off to to die in some covert mission if necessary. Besides that, there are operatives namely mossad agents that would easily be called upon to do this willingly.

The 5 dancing Israeli's (mossad agents) filming the towers coming down from a visually strategic location.... they knew in advance 9/11 was going to happen, and admitted on camera that they even were sent over to record the event. Their van also was found to contain traces of explosives residue.

It's all there, you just have to look it, and fit it together.

mammasan

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You're making assumptions that it's impossible while it clearly was physically possible to do.

Do you think Americans had to do it? It's not a pre-requisite for the job. Even so, they didn't have to be told why, just that the buildings were being wired up. People can be mind controlled to do anything. Then it's off to to die in some covert mission if necessary. Besides that, there are operatives namely mossad agents that would easily be called upon to do this willingly.

The 5 dancing Israeli's (mossad agents) filming the towers coming down from a visually strategic location.... they knew in advance 9/11 was going to happen, and admitted on camera that they even were sent over to record the event. Their van also was found to contain traces of explosives residue.

It's all there, you just have to look it, and fit it together.

No offense but you guys are starting to sound like this was some Cobra Commander/Destro like plot. What's next the Weather Dominator or that Osama Bin Laden was created by the US government using the DNA of people like Neopolian, Ceaser, Gengis Khan and Seargent Slaughter.

my2hands

mammasan wrote:

No offense but you guys are starting to sound like this was some Cobra Commander/Destro like plot. What's next the Weather Dominator or that Osama Bin Laden was created by the US government using the DNA of people like Neopolian, Ceaser, Gengis Khan and Seargent Slaughter.

this thread has tremendous potential

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mammasan wrote:

No offense but you guys are starting to sound like this was some Cobra Commander/Destro like plot. What's next the Weather Dominator or that Osama Bin Laden was created by the US government using the DNA of people like Neopolian, Ceaser, Gengis Khan and Seargent Slaughter.

Do some reading... what I'm saying is factual.

It's all money driven.

More disgusting things are done to far more people for the past 30 years via the war on drugs

9/11 was nothing.

my2hands

ledvedderman wrote:

The thing that really makes me think there is more to it is WTC 7. I just don't see how that building could possibly come down like that hours after the other buildings and with only some spot fires inside.

perhaps 200 stories worth of concrete and steel falling and burning in a city with massive underground infrastructure such as subways and utilities running underneath creates havoc on foundations and surrounding structures...

my2hands

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Do some reading... what I'm saying is factual.

It's all money driven.

More disgusting things are done to far more people for the past 30 years via the war on drugs

9/11 was nothing.

link me up something on those mossad agents... no joke

my2hands

the only 2 questions i have about 9/11 is:


1. where the hell was NORAD and the figters on 24/7 alert for this exact situation

2. what was up with NORAD running exact mock drills of the hijackings that morning?



for the record: i do not believe 9/11 was any type of inside job... and i think that article is great... a good read... i even printed it up to keep

the "just to fuck with people" line made me laugh out loud


i think 9/11 was an example of America's military fueled hubris... 1 trillion dollars a year for "defense" with 10,000 nuclear weapons most of which on hair trigger status, and 20 people with box cutters commited the greatest "attack" and atrocity on US soil in history...

what good was all that military power and wasteful spending that morning?