The elevator shafts had maintenance crews coming and going for something like 8 months. If I've read correctly, I remember reading that every floor had a crawl space in between it in which to access the framework of the building. It's been a while but I'm pretty sure I remember seeing that..
There is a crawl space between every floor, well at least there was. Like Cosmo said an operation of this magnitude would take a lot of people to pull it off. The chances of something going wrong or the public finding out the government was behind it all was too great. Yes there are inconsistancies in the governments "official" version of the story. I'm not debating that but if you look at this logically, and I'm not saying that you guys are not logical, you would see that there was no need for the US government to do this. Why pull off something so damn elaborate with so much risk of failure or exposure when all you would have to do is plant a few bombs in the NYC subway or on a couple of US airliners and take them down. You would still achieve the same affect with a far less degree of failure or exposure. These attacks where carried out by Al Qaida and the US government either didn't connect the dots on purpose or simply because they where to inept to do so. I believe it was done with some degree of intention in order for the attacks to happen so they had justification to go to war. The inconsistancies in their version of the story is simply a means to cover up that fact.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I don't really know where I stand on the whole 9/11 Truth. Do I think it went down as we were told in the 9/11 Commission Report? No. Do I buy the "Let's Roll" story? Not at all. There's no doubt in my mind that that flight was shot down. Do I think Bush and Cheney masterminded this? Not a chance. Have they exploited the events and the victims? Without doubt.
The thing that really makes me think there is more to it is WTC 7. I just don't see how that building could possibly come down like that hours after the other buildings and with only some spot fires inside.
The following is an adapted excerpt from Matt Taibbi's new book, "The Great Derangement" (Spiegel and Grau, 2008).
The 9/11 Truth movement is really distinguished by a kind of defiant unfamiliarity with the actual character of America's ruling class. In 9/11 lore the people who staff the White House, the security agencies, the Pentagon and groups like PNAC and the Council of Foreign Relations are imagined to be a monolithic, united class of dastardly, swashbuckling risk-takers with permanent hard-ons for Bourne Supremacy-style "false flag" and "black bag" operations, instead of the mundanely greedy, risk-averse, backstabbing, lawn-tending, half-clever suburban golfers they are in real life. It completely misunderstands the nature of American government -- fails to see that the old maxim about "the business of America is business" is absolutely true, that the federal government in this country is really just a lo-rent time-share property seasonally occupied by this or that clan of financial interests, each of which takes its 4-year turn at the helm tinkering with the tax laws and regulatory code and the rates at the Fed in the way it thinks will best keep the money train rolling.
The people who really run America don't send the likes of George Bush and Dick Cheney to the White House to cook up boat-rocking, maniacal world-domination plans and commit massive criminal conspiracies on live national television; they send them there to repeal PUCHA and dole out funds for the F-22 and pass energy bills with $14 billion tax breaks and slash fuel efficiency standards and do all the other shit that never makes the papers but keeps Wall Street and the country's corporate boardrooms happy. You don't elect politicians to commit crimes; you elect politicians to make your crimes legal. That is the whole purpose of the racket of government. Another other use of it would be a terrible investment, and the financial class in this country didn't get to where it is by betting on the ability of a president whose lips move when he reads to blow up two Manhattan skyscrapers in broad daylight without getting caught.
But according to 9/11 Truth lore, the financial patrons of democratic government were game for exactly that sort of gamble. According to the movement, the Powers That Be in the year 2000 spent $200 million electing George Bush and Dick Cheney because they were insufficiently impressed with the docility of the American population. What was needed, apparently, was a mass distraction, a gruesome mass murder that would whip the American population into a war frenzy. The same people who had managed in the 2000 election to sell billionaire petro-royalist George Bush as an ordinary down-to-earth ranch hand apparently so completely lacked confidence in their own propaganda skills that they resorted to ordering a mass murder on American soil as a way of cajoling America to go to war against a second-rate tyrant like Saddam Hussein. As if getting America to support going to war even against innocent countries had ever been hard before!
The truly sad thing about the 9/11 Truth movement is that it's based upon the wildly erroneous proposition that our leaders would ever be frightened enough of public opinion to feel the need to pull off this kind of stunt before acting in a place like Afghanistan or Iraq. At its heart, 9/11 Truth is a conceit, a narcissistic pipe dream for a dingbat, sheeplike population that is pleased to imagine itself dangerous and ungovernable. Rather than admit to their own powerlessness and irrelevance, or admit that they've spent the last fifty years or so electing leaders who openly handed their tax money to business cronies and golfed in Scotland while middle America's jobs were being sent overseas, the adherents to 9/11 Truth instead flatter themselves with fantasies about a ruling class obsessed with keeping the terrible truth from the watchful, exacting eye of The People.
Whereas the real conspiracy of power in America is right out in the open and always has been, only nobody cares, so long as Fear Factor and Baseball Tonight come on a the right times. A conspiracy like the one described by 9/11 Truth would only be necessary in a country where the people are a threat to actually govern themselves effectively.
But none of that even matters nearly as much as what 9/11 Truth says about the mental state of the population. The whole narrative of the movement is so completely and utterly retarded, it boggles the mind. It's like something cooked up by a bunch of teenagers raised on texting, TV and Sports Illustrated who just saw V For Vendetta for the first time and decided to write a Penguin History of the World on the strength of it. A genius on the order of a Mozart or a Shakespeare would be hard-pressed to dream up the awesome comedy that is the alleged plot from the point of view of the plotters. If there was such a conspiracy, remember, something like the following conversation would have had to have taken place:
April, 1999, World Trade Center building 7, New York, NY. A secret meeting of the Project for a New American Century. In attendance are Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Irv Kristol, and ... others. Cheney, standing at the head of the table and glaring downward, addresses the group:
Cheney: Gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads.
Kristol: (whispering to Feith) I love it when we stand at a crossroads!
Feith: (giggling) Me, too. But I never know what to wear.
Cheney: Do you assholes mind?
Kristol: Sorry, Dick.
Feith: Me, too.
Cheney: Okay. (Clears throat). As I was saying, gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads ...
Kristol: (in Bill Murray-esque fashion, mimicking suspense-movie soundtrack) Dunh-dunh-dunh!
Feith: Okay, okay. (to Cheney) No, it's okay, Dick, you can go on.
Cheney: You're sure? No more jokes to make? Guys want to do your goddamn Katherine Hepburn impersonations or something?
Kristol: (Channeling "On Golden Pond") Come on, Norman! Hurry up! The loons, the loons!
Feith: (whispering) Shut up, for Christ's sake! (to Cheney) Our lips are sealed, Dick. Honest.
Cheney: Okay. Jesus. As I was saying ... we, uh, stand at a crossroads. (Pauses warily, continues). As we head into the next millenium, America is the world's preeminent military and economic power, but the ground is not exactly solid beneath us. We are the inheritors of a great historical mantle, gentlemen, the rulers of the world's energy supply and therefore the rulers of world commerce. It is a mantle we inherited from the British, who rose to world power on a bed of coal, who in turn inherited it from the Dutch, who put a chokehold on Europe with their fleet of whaling ships. Our turn began when a discovery was made a little place called Oil Creek near Titusville, Pennsylvania in 1859 ...
Wolfowitz: Dick, you can skip all that stuff. We had our Standard Oil theme party just six months ago. Lynne made the squid ink risotto, don't you remember?
Cheney: Right. Well, the point is ... I think we all know about Marion King Hubbert's projections about the future of oil reserves. We all know the deal: in every oil field there comes a time when half of the field's reachable oil has been extracted. After that point, exploitation becomes more and more expensive; as time goes on, it requires more and more energy just to extract one barrel of oil. Eventually, oil extraction becomes uneconomic, which is to say it requires a barrel of oil's worth of energy to extract a barrel of oil. When that time comes, gentlemen, our oil-based empire is fucked. And the clock begins ticking in that direction once we pass that halfway point with the world's oil reserves. Once oil "peaks," America -- an empire whose power is based almost entirely upon its oil dominance -- will officially be on the decline.
Feith: Yeah. And it doesn't help that the only reason the dollar is worth more than the peso is that OPEC still trades in dollars.
Cheney: Exactly. Without oil, we're like Bangladesh with fat people. And here's the problem: that failsafe point is upon us. I think we all know the oil production in the lower 48 states peaked in 1970, that Alaskan oil production peaked in 1988, Russia around the same time. Saudi Arabia may be just years from peaking, and in any case our political situation there is tenuous at best. Our guys at Halliburton now estimate that worldwide oil and gas production from existing reserves is declining by about 4 to 6 percent every year ...
Wolfowitz: So what's your point? We're all old anyway. Who cares what happens 20 years from now?
Cheney: The point, Paul, is that the American empire as we know it will collapse within 20-30 years unless we find massive new supplies of oil and find them fast. By 2010 we're going to need to find fifty million additional barrels of oil per day. And there's only one place where we can get that much oil ...
Kristol: Sweden!
Feith: Of course. Let's invade! I hate those goddamn speed-skaters anyway.
Cheney: No, you assholes, not Sweden. Iraq. It's the only major oil-rich state whose reserves haven't been mostly exploited. There's probably seven million barrels a day minimum just sitting in those fields -- and the worst thing is, unless we get in there soon, it's all going to go to the French, the Russians and the Germans, since Saddam will sell to all of them long before he deals with us, assuming his UN sanctions get lifted at some point.
Wolfowitz: My God.
Cheney: So it's clear we've got to get in there. Are we agreed on this?
All: Agreed.
Cheney: All right. Well, I've got a plan.
Wolfowitz: We get George elected in 2000 and go in, right? Tell the public Saddam's in violation of his UN restrictions or some shit like that? He is anyway, isn't he?
Cheney: No, that would never work. The public would never stand for it.
(Everyone bursts out laughing)
Cheney: Seriously.
Wolfowitz: Oh, wait -- you're serious?
Cheney: Absolutely. No, I think the way to go is to cook up some kind of justification. Something that will really get the public behind the invasion ...
Feith: I know! We go to the UN, show bogus photos of Saddam's secret store of chemical and biological weapons, evidence of his nuclear weapons program. Tell the world he's planning to attack.
Cheney: No. Not emotional enough. I mean something really hot ...
Kristol: It could be a human-rights thing. Some emergency, like he's gassing Kurds again or something. That worked for Clinton in Kosovo. I mean, who gave a shit about Albanians, right? I wouldn't know an Albanian if I caught one in bed with my wife. But that whole rape-camp thing was good enough by a mile to start that war.
Cheney: No, no, that's not vivid enough, not Band of Brothers enough. We need the people all lathered up, their mouths full of spittle, howling for blood, like pit bulls. You guys need to think to scale, think big, think like Michael Bay.
Feith: Michael Bay, Jesus. Okay, okay, what, then?
Cheney: We bomb the World Trade Center.
Kristol: Perfect! And blame it on Saddam!
Cheney: No, we bomb the World Trade Center and blame it on Osama bin Laden.
Feith: Oh. How?
Cheney: Easy. First, we cultivate 19 suicidal Muslim patsies from a variety of Middle Eastern countries, I'd say mostly from Saudi Arabia. We bring them to the U.S., train them at U.S. flight schools. They should be high-profile terrorist suspects who are magically given free reign by the security agencies to travel back and forth to various terrorist training camps to study passenger jet piloting. Actually that process is already underway now. Our friends in the Clinton administration are seeing to it that four groups of Arab men are being brought along by the FBI and the CIA.
Wolfowitz: How is it that the Clinton administration is already helping us with this, when we haven't even planned this yet?
Cheney: They just are. Okay?
Wolfowitz: Okay, fine. And what do we do with these hijackers?
Cheney: We sit idly by while they plot to hijack a series of passenger jet planes and crash them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the White House.
Wolfowitz: And how do we get them to do that?
Cheney: We just do. You see, we worked with these people back in the old mujahadeen days in Afghanistan. So naturally we're still thick as thieves with them.
Feith: Oh, of course. So we get them to fly into these buildings. And the impact from the planes will bring down the World Trade Center.
Cheney: No, Doug, dammit, you're not following me. The impact from the planes most certainly won't be sufficient to knock down the Towers. We know this because we've privately conducted studies which show that the Towers will easily be able to withstand impact by two jets loaded to the gills with jet fuel. That said, the jets will likely cause skyscraper fires hot enough to kill everyone above the point of impact; we're going to have to assume, of course, that the exits from the higher floors to the lower floors will be mostly blocked after the collisions. So assuming we crash the planes about two-thirds of the way up each of the towers early on a business day, we're looking at trapping and killing a good three, four, maybe even five thousand people on the upper floors.
Feith: Fantastic. I love killing people in the finance industry. It's too bad the people on the lower floors will get to escape...
There is a crawl space between every floor, well at least there was. Like Cosmo said an operation of this magnitude would take a lot of people to pull it off. The chances of something going wrong or the public finding out the government was behind it all was too great. Yes there are inconsistancies in the governments "official" version of the story. I'm not debating that but if you look at this logically, and I'm not saying that you guys are not logical, you would see that there was no need for the US government to do this. Why pull off something so damn elaborate with so much risk of failure or exposure when all you would have to do is plant a few bombs in the NYC subway or on a couple of US airliners and take them down. You would still achieve the same affect with a far less degree of failure or exposure. These attacks where carried out by Al Qaida and the US government either didn't connect the dots on purpose or simply because they where to inept to do so. I believe it was done with some degree of intention in order for the attacks to happen so they had justification to go to war. The inconsistancies in their version of the story is simply a means to cover up that fact.
You're making assumptions that it's impossible while it clearly was physically possible to do.
Do you think Americans had to do it? It's not a pre-requisite for the job. Even so, they didn't have to be told why, just that the buildings were being wired up. People can be mind controlled to do anything. Then it's off to to die in some covert mission if necessary. Besides that, there are operatives namely mossad agents that would easily be called upon to do this willingly.
The 5 dancing Israeli's (mossad agents) filming the towers coming down from a visually strategic location.... they knew in advance 9/11 was going to happen, and admitted on camera that they even were sent over to record the event. Their van also was found to contain traces of explosives residue.
It's all there, you just have to look it, and fit it together.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You're making assumptions that it's impossible while it clearly was physically possible to do.
Do you think Americans had to do it? It's not a pre-requisite for the job. Even so, they didn't have to be told why, just that the buildings were being wired up. People can be mind controlled to do anything. Then it's off to to die in some covert mission if necessary. Besides that, there are operatives namely mossad agents that would easily be called upon to do this willingly.
The 5 dancing Israeli's (mossad agents) filming the towers coming down from a visually strategic location.... they knew in advance 9/11 was going to happen, and admitted on camera that they even were sent over to record the event. Their van also was found to contain traces of explosives residue.
It's all there, you just have to look it, and fit it together.
No offense but you guys are starting to sound like this was some Cobra Commander/Destro like plot. What's next the Weather Dominator or that Osama Bin Laden was created by the US government using the DNA of people like Neopolian, Ceaser, Gengis Khan and Seargent Slaughter.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
No offense but you guys are starting to sound like this was some Cobra Commander/Destro like plot. What's next the Weather Dominator or that Osama Bin Laden was created by the US government using the DNA of people like Neopolian, Ceaser, Gengis Khan and Seargent Slaughter.
No offense but you guys are starting to sound like this was some Cobra Commander/Destro like plot. What's next the Weather Dominator or that Osama Bin Laden was created by the US government using the DNA of people like Neopolian, Ceaser, Gengis Khan and Seargent Slaughter.
Do some reading... what I'm saying is factual.
It's all money driven.
More disgusting things are done to far more people for the past 30 years via the war on drugs
9/11 was nothing.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The thing that really makes me think there is more to it is WTC 7. I just don't see how that building could possibly come down like that hours after the other buildings and with only some spot fires inside.
perhaps 200 stories worth of concrete and steel falling and burning in a city with massive underground infrastructure such as subways and utilities running underneath creates havoc on foundations and surrounding structures...
1. where the hell was NORAD and the figters on 24/7 alert for this exact situation
2. what was up with NORAD running exact mock drills of the hijackings that morning?
for the record: i do not believe 9/11 was any type of inside job... and i think that article is great... a good read... i even printed it up to keep
the "just to fuck with people" line made me laugh out loud
i think 9/11 was an example of America's military fueled hubris... 1 trillion dollars a year for "defense" with 10,000 nuclear weapons most of which on hair trigger status, and 20 people with box cutters commited the greatest "attack" and atrocity on US soil in history...
what good was all that military power and wasteful spending that morning?
More disgusting things are done to far more people for the past 30 years via the war on drugs
9/11 was nothing.
You assume simply because I don't agree with you that I haven't done any reading or simply blind to the truth. I have done a lot of reading on the subject and have even did some research into how buildings are demoed. I simply don't see it happening. The complexity of such an operation is overwhelming. Does our government have the means to pull something like this off, Yes. Can it be done, Yes. Would they risk everything when there was already some crazy fuckers in another part of the world hell bent on doing the same thing, no. As history indicates are government doesn't like to get it's hands dirty, they would rather have other people do all the work for them. So why all of a sudden would they get themselves involved with with carrying out such a devastating attack against US citizens on US soil. I mean you guys are putting together some serious Lex Luther plots here.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
1. where the hell was NORAD and the figters on 24/7 alert for this exact situation
2. what was up with NORAD running exact mock drills of the hijackings that morning?
for the record: i do not believe 9/11 was any type of inside job... and i think that article is great... a good read... i even printed it up to keep
the "just to fuck with people" line made me laugh out loud
i think 9/11 was an example of America's military fueled hubris... 1 trillion dollars a year for "defense" with 10,000 nuclear weapons most of which on hair trigger status, and 20 people with box cutters commited the greatest "attack" and atrocity on US soil in history...
what good was all that military power and wasteful spending that morning?
I believe that at the highest levels of government this was allowed to happen to a certain extent. I don't think that they realized how deadly the attack would be but I do believe that they played the role of the incompetant baffons in order to let this happen so they would have justification for their foreign agenda.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
2. what was up with NORAD running exact mock drills of the hijackings that morning?
Do you find it all curious that on the morning of the 7/7 bombings the exact same thing happened?
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
You assume simply because I don't agree with you that I haven't done any reading or simply blind to the truth. I have done a lot of reading on the subject and have even did some research into how buildings are demoed. I simply don't see it happening. The complexity of such an operation is overwhelming. Does our government have the means to pull something like this off, Yes. Can it be done, Yes. Would they risk everything when there was already some crazy fuckers in another part of the world hell bent on doing the same thing, no. As history indicates are government doesn't like to get it's hands dirty, they would rather have other people do all the work for them. So why all of a sudden would they get themselves involved with with carrying out such a devastating attack against US citizens on US soil. I mean you guys are putting together some serious Lex Luther plots here.
It's fits perfectly with the doctrine outlined in PNAC. The whole neo-con movement came to life in full force from 9/11, and the orchestrator's are all making a mint. Bin laden was a trained employee don't forget. Remember those people that were allowed to fly out after 9/11 when all planes were grounded? namely members of his family? The patriot acts were already drawn up pre-911 and were installed in a mater of weeks. That is not normal by any means even in times of conflict. Instant loss of rights? bang...zoom...patriot act.
What about the put options? Mossad agent sent to record the event. People knew in advance. This was planned.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It's fits perfectly with the doctrine outlined in PNAC. The whole neo-con movement came to life in full force from 9/11, and the orchestrator's are all making a mint. Bin laden was a trained employee don't forget. Remember those people that were allowed to fly out after 9/11 when all planes were grounded? namely members of his family? The patriot acts were already drawn up pre-911 and were installed in a mater of weeks. That is not normal by any means even in times of conflict. Instant loss of rights? bang...zoom...patriot act.
What about the put options? Mossad agent sent to record the event. People knew in advance. This was planned.
Yes it was planned by Al Qaida and it was allowed to happen by our government but they did not do it themselves.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I believe that at the highest levels of government this was allowed to happen to a certain extent. I don't think that they realized how deadly the attack would be but I do believe that they played the role of the incompetant baffons in order to let this happen so they would have justification for their foreign agenda.
If you dismiss that, your critical thinking has turned off. You don't want to look at for what it is for some reason.
Fox had news stories pulled off the air related to this situation after they ran them eh?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Yes it was planned by Al Qaida and it was allowed to happen by our government but they did not do it themselves.
So the media story goes on "the enemy". Bottom line who has benefited the most , and continues to do so? Look around at what has happened. I see a pattern of creating an enemy, then using military might against them for the past 30+ years.
How the towers fell is like saying I like pepsi over coke. The fact is we're all drinking it, swimming in it really.
PNAC outlines a plan for global domination through ongoing conflict. War is their money machine. We're living in it, and it's going on right now.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Do you find it all curious that on the morning of the 7/7 bombings the exact same thing happened?
I was in London on 8th September 2001 for a study day, and I was stunned by the obvious level of heightened security/blokes in suits with walkie talkies/visible police presence, in central London. It was clear as day, even to a casual observer. They weren't very subtle about it. Then 9/11 happened. I still suspect that it wasn't some football match or rally that caused the sudden change in climate.
If you dismiss that, your critical thinking has turned off. You don't want to look at for what it is for some reason.
Fox had news stories pulled off the air related to this situation after they ran them eh?
yes of course Roland, because I don't agree with you that must mean that there is something deeply wrong with me and the way I process information. Tell me when are you going to toss the Kool-aid line at me just so I can brace myself.
Here is my feeling of the 9/11 Truth Movement, it's best summed up by MIT engineering professor Thomas W. Eagar.
"These people (in the 9/11 truth movement) use the "reverse scientific method"… they determine what happened, throw out all the data that doesn't fit their conclusion, and then hail their findings as the only possible conclusion."
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
yes of course Roland, because I don't agree with you that must mean that there is something deeply wrong with me and the way I process information. Tell me when are you going to toss the Kool-aid line at me just so I can brace myself.
Here is my feeling of the 9/11 Truth Movement, it's best summed up by MIT engineering professor Thomas W. Eagar.
"These people (in the 9/11 truth movement) use the "reverse scientific method"… they determine what happened, throw out all the data that doesn't fit their conclusion, and then hail their findings as the only possible conclusion."
I told you about something you didn't know about it it seems, and you instantly dismissed it. Then when I give you the information you still dismiss it, even though it's all factual.
So yes, one could deduce you did not look at it critically.
what did I miss?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I told you about something you didn't know about it it seems, and you instantly dismissed it. Then when I give you the information you still dismiss it, even though it's all factual.
So yes, one could deduce you did not look at it critically.
what did I miss?
I have known about the dancing Israeli's and here is what I think about them, a bunch of douche bags who thought it would be appropriate to mock the situation simply because their country has been in the grips of terrorist attacks for decades. There is my critical analysis of your cold hard evidence that 9/11 was some how perpetrated by the US government, or Mossad or some other diabolical organization lurking in the shadows waiting to enslave humanity.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Here is a wonderful quote from Matt Taibbi on the issue of 9/11 Truthers
"The first is that it gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes.... Secondly, it's bad enough that people in this country think Tim LaHaye is a prophet and Sean Hannity is an objective newsman. But if large numbers of people in this country can swallow 9/11 conspiracy theory without puking, all hope is lost."
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I have known about the dancing Israeli's and here is what I think about them, a bunch of douche bags who thought it would be appropriate to mock the situation simply because their country has been in the grips of terrorist attacks for decades. There is my critical analysis of your cold hard evidence that 9/11 was some how perpetrated by the US government, or Mossad or some other diabolical organization lurking in the shadows waiting to enslave humanity.
The FBI confirmed two of them as being Mossad agents.
Again who has interests in ripping the middle east a new orifice and converting the land over (for a few reasons)?
And who is doing exactly that?
Two countries in particular that have incorporated at the highest levels. Extensive dual citizenship in office ring any bells? Pathetic AIPAC pandering by the big three candidates? Extensive aid to the one particular country in the region? Again follow the money trails. Toss in some deep rooted religious beliefs, amongst other reasons. The motivations are all there.
It's gets more clear as time goes on.
If you're looking for photo of George bush bending over holding a match at the base of the towers...good luck..lol
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Here is a wonderful quote from Matt Taibbi on the issue of 9/11 Truthers
"The first is that it gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes.... Secondly, it's bad enough that people in this country think Tim LaHaye is a prophet and Sean Hannity is an objective newsman. But if large numbers of people in this country can swallow 9/11 conspiracy theory without puking, all hope is lost."
nice display of aggression and contempt...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The FBI confirmed two of them as being Mossad agents.
Again who has interests in ripping the middle east a new orifice and converting the land over (for a few reasons)?
And who is doing exactly that?
Two countries in particular that have incorporated at the highest levels. Extensive dual citizenship in office ring any bells? Pathetic AIPAC pandering by the big three candidates? Extensive aid to the one particular country in the region? Again follow the money trails. Toss in some deep rooted religious beliefs, amongst other reasons. The motivations are all there.
It's gets more clear as time goes on.
If you looking for photo of George bush bending over holding a match at the base of the towers...good luck..lol
Yes the US government has benefited tremendously from 9/11 but that doesn't mean they executed the attack. All it shows is that this administration is full of a bunch of greedy opportunistic bastards who would take a national tragedy and use it to line their and their friend's pockets. Nothing more. Nothing that you have provided even comes remotely close to even slightly proving that the US was behind the attacks. In fact none of the evidence provided by the 9/11 Truth Movement has proved a damn single thing. All this talk about the government covering up is true, but they are not trying to cover up the fact that they are responsible for carrying out the attacks. They are covering up the fact that they royal fucked up and dropped the ball. The only question that remains to be answered is weither this fuck up was intentional or not.
Lastly I believe that this movement is harming our chances of every really getting any answers. Anyone who questions the events leading up to the attacks are now lumped in with all the tin foil hat wearers and none of their legitamate questions are being taken seriously.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Comments
There is a crawl space between every floor, well at least there was. Like Cosmo said an operation of this magnitude would take a lot of people to pull it off. The chances of something going wrong or the public finding out the government was behind it all was too great. Yes there are inconsistancies in the governments "official" version of the story. I'm not debating that but if you look at this logically, and I'm not saying that you guys are not logical, you would see that there was no need for the US government to do this. Why pull off something so damn elaborate with so much risk of failure or exposure when all you would have to do is plant a few bombs in the NYC subway or on a couple of US airliners and take them down. You would still achieve the same affect with a far less degree of failure or exposure. These attacks where carried out by Al Qaida and the US government either didn't connect the dots on purpose or simply because they where to inept to do so. I believe it was done with some degree of intention in order for the attacks to happen so they had justification to go to war. The inconsistancies in their version of the story is simply a means to cover up that fact.
The thing that really makes me think there is more to it is WTC 7. I just don't see how that building could possibly come down like that hours after the other buildings and with only some spot fires inside.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
thank you.
You're making assumptions that it's impossible while it clearly was physically possible to do.
Do you think Americans had to do it? It's not a pre-requisite for the job. Even so, they didn't have to be told why, just that the buildings were being wired up. People can be mind controlled to do anything. Then it's off to to die in some covert mission if necessary. Besides that, there are operatives namely mossad agents that would easily be called upon to do this willingly.
The 5 dancing Israeli's (mossad agents) filming the towers coming down from a visually strategic location.... they knew in advance 9/11 was going to happen, and admitted on camera that they even were sent over to record the event. Their van also was found to contain traces of explosives residue.
It's all there, you just have to look it, and fit it together.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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No offense but you guys are starting to sound like this was some Cobra Commander/Destro like plot. What's next the Weather Dominator or that Osama Bin Laden was created by the US government using the DNA of people like Neopolian, Ceaser, Gengis Khan and Seargent Slaughter.
this thread has tremendous potential
Do some reading... what I'm saying is factual.
It's all money driven.
More disgusting things are done to far more people for the past 30 years via the war on drugs
9/11 was nothing.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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perhaps 200 stories worth of concrete and steel falling and burning in a city with massive underground infrastructure such as subways and utilities running underneath creates havoc on foundations and surrounding structures...
link me up something on those mossad agents... no joke
1. where the hell was NORAD and the figters on 24/7 alert for this exact situation
2. what was up with NORAD running exact mock drills of the hijackings that morning?
for the record: i do not believe 9/11 was any type of inside job... and i think that article is great... a good read... i even printed it up to keep
the "just to fuck with people" line made me laugh out loud
i think 9/11 was an example of America's military fueled hubris... 1 trillion dollars a year for "defense" with 10,000 nuclear weapons most of which on hair trigger status, and 20 people with box cutters commited the greatest "attack" and atrocity on US soil in history...
what good was all that military power and wasteful spending that morning?
You assume simply because I don't agree with you that I haven't done any reading or simply blind to the truth. I have done a lot of reading on the subject and have even did some research into how buildings are demoed. I simply don't see it happening. The complexity of such an operation is overwhelming. Does our government have the means to pull something like this off, Yes. Can it be done, Yes. Would they risk everything when there was already some crazy fuckers in another part of the world hell bent on doing the same thing, no. As history indicates are government doesn't like to get it's hands dirty, they would rather have other people do all the work for them. So why all of a sudden would they get themselves involved with with carrying out such a devastating attack against US citizens on US soil. I mean you guys are putting together some serious Lex Luther plots here.
I believe that at the highest levels of government this was allowed to happen to a certain extent. I don't think that they realized how deadly the attack would be but I do believe that they played the role of the incompetant baffons in order to let this happen so they would have justification for their foreign agenda.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Do you find it all curious that on the morning of the 7/7 bombings the exact same thing happened?
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
It's fits perfectly with the doctrine outlined in PNAC. The whole neo-con movement came to life in full force from 9/11, and the orchestrator's are all making a mint. Bin laden was a trained employee don't forget. Remember those people that were allowed to fly out after 9/11 when all planes were grounded? namely members of his family? The patriot acts were already drawn up pre-911 and were installed in a mater of weeks. That is not normal by any means even in times of conflict. Instant loss of rights? bang...zoom...patriot act.
What about the put options? Mossad agent sent to record the event. People knew in advance. This was planned.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Ok so now Mossad did it. Or was it the Illuminati or the Freemasons. Maybe it was these guys http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/85/Legion_of_Doom.jpg
Yes it was planned by Al Qaida and it was allowed to happen by our government but they did not do it themselves.
doesn't that make it an "inside job"?
If you dismiss that, your critical thinking has turned off. You don't want to look at for what it is for some reason.
Fox had news stories pulled off the air related to this situation after they ran them eh?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Not necessarily. I do believe that the government should be held accountable for it's inaction but by no means where they "in" on it.
So the media story goes on "the enemy". Bottom line who has benefited the most , and continues to do so? Look around at what has happened. I see a pattern of creating an enemy, then using military might against them for the past 30+ years.
How the towers fell is like saying I like pepsi over coke. The fact is we're all drinking it, swimming in it really.
PNAC outlines a plan for global domination through ongoing conflict. War is their money machine. We're living in it, and it's going on right now.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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so because he doesnt think "five dancing israeli's" are the smoking gun his critical thinking is turned off?
I was in London on 8th September 2001 for a study day, and I was stunned by the obvious level of heightened security/blokes in suits with walkie talkies/visible police presence, in central London. It was clear as day, even to a casual observer. They weren't very subtle about it. Then 9/11 happened. I still suspect that it wasn't some football match or rally that caused the sudden change in climate.
yes of course Roland, because I don't agree with you that must mean that there is something deeply wrong with me and the way I process information. Tell me when are you going to toss the Kool-aid line at me just so I can brace myself.
Here is my feeling of the 9/11 Truth Movement, it's best summed up by MIT engineering professor Thomas W. Eagar.
"These people (in the 9/11 truth movement) use the "reverse scientific method"… they determine what happened, throw out all the data that doesn't fit their conclusion, and then hail their findings as the only possible conclusion."
I told you about something you didn't know about it it seems, and you instantly dismissed it. Then when I give you the information you still dismiss it, even though it's all factual.
So yes, one could deduce you did not look at it critically.
what did I miss?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I have known about the dancing Israeli's and here is what I think about them, a bunch of douche bags who thought it would be appropriate to mock the situation simply because their country has been in the grips of terrorist attacks for decades. There is my critical analysis of your cold hard evidence that 9/11 was some how perpetrated by the US government, or Mossad or some other diabolical organization lurking in the shadows waiting to enslave humanity.
"The first is that it gives supporters of Bush an excuse to dismiss critics of this administration. I have no doubt that every time one of those Loose Change dickwads opens his mouth, a Republican somewhere picks up five votes.... Secondly, it's bad enough that people in this country think Tim LaHaye is a prophet and Sean Hannity is an objective newsman. But if large numbers of people in this country can swallow 9/11 conspiracy theory without puking, all hope is lost."
The FBI confirmed two of them as being Mossad agents.
Again who has interests in ripping the middle east a new orifice and converting the land over (for a few reasons)?
And who is doing exactly that?
Two countries in particular that have incorporated at the highest levels. Extensive dual citizenship in office ring any bells? Pathetic AIPAC pandering by the big three candidates? Extensive aid to the one particular country in the region? Again follow the money trails. Toss in some deep rooted religious beliefs, amongst other reasons. The motivations are all there.
It's gets more clear as time goes on.
If you're looking for photo of George bush bending over holding a match at the base of the towers...good luck..lol
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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nice display of aggression and contempt...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Yes the US government has benefited tremendously from 9/11 but that doesn't mean they executed the attack. All it shows is that this administration is full of a bunch of greedy opportunistic bastards who would take a national tragedy and use it to line their and their friend's pockets. Nothing more. Nothing that you have provided even comes remotely close to even slightly proving that the US was behind the attacks. In fact none of the evidence provided by the 9/11 Truth Movement has proved a damn single thing. All this talk about the government covering up is true, but they are not trying to cover up the fact that they are responsible for carrying out the attacks. They are covering up the fact that they royal fucked up and dropped the ball. The only question that remains to be answered is weither this fuck up was intentional or not.
Lastly I believe that this movement is harming our chances of every really getting any answers. Anyone who questions the events leading up to the attacks are now lumped in with all the tin foil hat wearers and none of their legitamate questions are being taken seriously.