The Great Derangement: If Cheney & Co. Had Really Plotted the 9/11 Attacks ...

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  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    You either believe what you were told about 9/11 or not. You can't have your cake and it eat too in this scenario.

    "you are either with us, or you are with the terrorists" is what he told you.

    Pick your side. If 9/11 was real, you now have a moral obligation to defend your country.

    Support your leader.


    You have got to be kidding. OK I will humor you.

    Yes 9/11 was real. Yes terrorists did attack us on that day. Yes we need to deal with individuals who would take innocent lives in order to achieve their goals. Yes I do believe that my government did not orchestrate the attacks, but I do believe that my government had enough information prior to the attacks to at least prevent them. What I do not know, but can only assume, is wether my government deliberately failed to act on that information or they simply dropped the ball. Either way they need to be held accountable. I do not believe the government approved version of what happened leading up to and on that day because it fails to hold those responsible for the screw up on our end accountable. I did support our invasion of Afghanistan but disagree with how that invasion was carried out. I also disagree with how we left the operation half done in order to move onto another objective. I do believe that this administration preyed upon the countries vulnerabilities in order to gain support for the invasion of Iraq. I did not, nor do I to this day, support the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq. I do not agree with this administration handling of detainees. I do not agree with the administrations attempts to infringe on our liberties. I do not believe that this is a black or white issue. It is a complex issues with many points of view and varying opinions. I do believe that the terrorists attacked us because of our foreign policy. I do not believe that they attacked us for our freedoms. I believe that our government's war on terror is an utter fraud, considering that we ourselves support and harbor terrorists. I do not believe that the war on terror can be won using military might, terrorism is an ideology not a uniformed army. My moral obligation is to be the best person I am not to defend my country, that is what we have a military for. On that note I believe that the biggest threat to our country is our very government. It has sold us to the highest bidder and no hold the interests of corporation over that of it's citizens. We don't need Al Qaida or Osama Bin Laden to destroy this country we have been doing it ourselves for decades.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    They blew it up with either demolition or lasers from space. No other explanation will make sense to you so why bother answering. Other explanations have been posted over and over on here yet the question still comes up. So it must be demolition or lasers from space as I have seen both of these explanations posted on here.
    If you dont believe it was a controlled demolition how was it done?
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Carlos D wrote:
    On that logic,if what you say is true shouldn't you be outside the White House with a gun right now trying to save us all?

    Good fucking point. So Roland when are you going to storm the White House?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Nevermind wrote:
    If you dont believe it was a controlled demolition how was it done?

    I don't know maybe the two 110 story building falling next to it could have possibly caused it. I'm no structural engineer but that seems like a pretty damn plausible reason.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    mammasan wrote:
    I don't know maybe the two 110 story building falling next to it could have possibly caused it. I'm no structural engineer but that seems like a pretty damn plausible reason.
    At free fall speed? Why didnt building 5 and 6 collapse too?
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/august2006/230806wtcplan.jpg
  • mammasan wrote:
    You have got to be kidding. OK I will humor you.

    Yes 9/11 was real. Yes terrorists did attack us on that day. Yes we need to deal with individuals who would take innocent lives in order to achieve their goals. Yes I do believe that my government did not orchestrate the attacks, but I do believe that my government had enough information prior to the attacks to at least prevent them. What I do not know, but can only assume, is wether my government deliberately failed to act on that information or they simply dropped the ball. Either way they need to be held accountable. I do not believe the government approved version of what happened leading up to and on that day because it fails to hold those responsible for the screw up on our end accountable. I did support our invasion of Afghanistan but disagree with how that invasion was carried out. I also disagree with how we left the operation half done in order to move onto another objective. I do believe that this administration preyed upon the countries vulnerabilities in order to gain support for the invasion of Iraq. I did not, nor do I to this day, support the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq. I do not agree with this administration handling of detainees. I do not agree with the administrations attempts to infringe on our liberties. I do not believe that this is a black or white issue. It is a complex issues with many points of view and varying opinions. I do believe that the terrorists attacked us because of our foreign policy. I do not believe that they attacked us for our freedoms. I believe that our government's war on terror is an utter fraud, considering that we ourselves support and harbor terrorists. I do not believe that the war on terror can be won using military might, terrorism is an ideology not a uniformed army. My moral obligation is to be the best person I am not to defend my country, that is what we have a military for. On that note I believe that the biggest threat to our country is our very government. It has sold us to the highest bidder and no hold the interests of corporation over that of it's citizens. We don't need Al Qaida or Osama Bin Laden to destroy this country we have been doing it ourselves for decades.


    Where does the truth end, and the lies begin is the problem I'm seeing with this situation.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • mammasan wrote:
    Good fucking point. So Roland when are you going to storm the White House?

    That's easy, I can hold a gun in contempt legally in Iraq, it's encouraged actually.

    Are you suggesting I break the law and become violent?

    People who believe what Bush says tend to be pro violence....pro war.

    I don't believe a single word he has ever said.

    Total logic disconnect.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    i will ask again....


    who was in on it... how many were in on it... how many know about it?


    and why has it not come out in 7 years? not a peep? nothing? not one person that holds the greatest secret ever tells the story?


    enlighten me
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    my2hands wrote:
    i will ask again....


    who was in on it... how many were in on it... how many know about it?


    and why has it not come out in 7 years? not a peep? nothing? not one person that holds the greatest secret ever tells the story?


    enlighten me
    Cheney was.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Nevermind wrote:
    At free fall speed? Why didnt building 5 and 6 collapse too?
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/august2006/230806wtcplan.jpg

    Like I said I'm not a structural engineer so I can't give you a knowledgeable answer. Also I definitely wouldn't rely on Prison Planet as my source for factual information.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • mammasan wrote:
    Here is my feeling of the 9/11 Truth Movement, it's best summed up by MIT engineering professor Thomas W. Eagar.

    "These people (in the 9/11 truth movement) use the "reverse scientific method"… they determine what happened, throw out all the data that doesn't fit their conclusion, and then hail their findings as the only possible conclusion."

    Funny.
    Thats the exact same thing the "crazy" 911 Truth people accuse the government of doing REPEATEDLY.

    Your penchant for avoiding reality and denying anything you find inconvenient is disturbing.

    Before you go relying on quotes from MIT professors,
    it may help you to know that MIT is a historical epicenter of CIA activity.
    History of the CIA on Campus ... note the EXTENSIVE reference to the MIT!

    :rolleyes:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    mammasan wrote:
    Like I said I'm not a structural engineer so I can't give you a knowledgeable answer. Also I definitely wouldn't rely on Prison Planet as my source for factual information.
    Its a map.
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Nevermind wrote:


    wow, a prisonplanet link... that didnt take long :rolleyes:


    let me tell ya something... if there was a conspiracy... and a small group of men could pull this shit off in total secret... they would have killed alex jones a long time ago
  • All I've really seen here is people saying I have no idea of how they did it, so I can't really comprehend it being possible, so the official story has to be right, and people who deny it are crazy.

    Proves nothing. Means nothing. Not a damn thing.

    I can't imagine how to build a nuclear reactor, or the space shuttle, but they exist.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • NevermindNevermind Posts: 1,006
    my2hands wrote:
    wow, a prisonplanet link... that didnt take long :rolleyes:


    let me tell ya something... if there was a conspiracy... and a small group of men could pull this shit off in total secret... they would have killed alex jones a long time ago
    If you dont believe the map is accurate than google a new one. Only reason i chose that one was because its better quality.
  • my2hands wrote:
    let me tell ya something... if there was a conspiracy... and a small group of men could pull this shit off in total secret... they would have killed alex jones a long time ago

    Things like physics, temperature, and gravity are constant...there are no alternatives.

    Hypotheticals on what you think should be happening are somewhat less absolute.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Things like physics, temperature, and gravity are constant...there are no alternatives.

    Hypotheticals on what you think should be happening are somewhat less absolute.


    so why isnt every scientist that understands those "constants" screaming at the top of their lungs that it HAD to be an inside job? where are all of the scientists and legit experts backing these theories up?

    and as the original article states, why demo the building? is that REALLY needed? why risk that? i think flying 2 planes into the buildings and killing a few thousand people would get the message across
  • my2hands wrote:
    so why isnt every scientist that understands those "constants" screaming at the top of their lungs that it HAD to be an inside job? where are all of the scientists and legit experts backing these theories up?

    and as the original article states, why demo the building? is that REALLY needed? why risk that? i think flying 2 planes into the buildings and killing a few thousand people would get the message across

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    btw...you won't find any gov't employees ruining their careers over it.

    Without the collapse ,maybe they kill 50... most would evacuate..
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    1. what do you think hit the pentagon?

    2. why bring the building down? wouldnt the planes be good enough?

    3. what did the conspirators have to gain from this attack?
  • my2hands wrote:
    1. what do you think hit the pentagon?

    2. why bring the building down? wouldnt the planes be good enough?

    3. what did the conspirators have to gain from this attack?

    1. Most likely an airplane...they already used two for certain... what's another airplane?

    2. They wanted the insurance money, and it's more final. If they fixed and repaired the building that's seen as fixing the problem. Not enough. It had to be a finality....no turning back...no way to fix it. No alternatives.

    3 Are you kidding me?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    btw...you won't find any gov't employees ruining their careers over it.

    Without the collapse ,maybe they kill 50... most would evacuate..


    the only name isee over andover on that site is a "richard gage"


    have a more credible source then a 9/11 truth site? a biased source dont ya think? that really isnt that hot roland... you would figure something as big as this thousands of experts all around the world would be speaking their mind at the top of their lungs... but i hear nothing? they have had 7 years and all you have is some obscure richard gage dude?
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    1. Most likely an airplane...they already used two for certain... what's another airplane?
    okay
    2. They wanted the insurance money, and it's more final. If they fixed and repaired the building that's seen as fixing the problem. Not enough. It had to be a finality....no turning back...no way to fix it. No alternatives.
    so the owner of the wtc is in on it as well? this conspiracy is getting pretty wide for shit to stay quiet...
    3 Are you kidding me?
    no, what did they stand to gain. go ahead and answer it honestly
  • my2hands wrote:
    the only name isee over andover on that site is a "richard gage"


    have a more credible source then a 9/11 truth site? a biased source dont ya think? that really isnt that hot roland... you would figure something as big as this thousands of experts all around the world would be speaking their mind at the top of their lungs... but i hear nothing? they have had 7 years and all you have is some obscure richard gage dude?


    Do you have a different internet or something?

    384 architectural and engineering professionals

    edit...anyways...you click the number 384 with your mouse because it highlights when you hover over it (it's semi intuitive) and you get this:

    http://www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php

    wait few moments for it to load....it's a lot of people.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2hands wrote:
    okay

    so the owner of the wtc is in on it as well? this conspiracy is getting pretty wide for shit to stay quiet...

    no, what did they stand to gain. go ahead and answer it honestly

    You fail to understand when you become part of it, you're an accomplice and you can be blackmailed....or worse. You are property. It's like joining the mafia...you keep your mouth shut, and do what you're told after that.

    Not to mention a lot of people even agree with the policy it created regardless. (big surprise). that is a factor across the board on many levels for those involved. Also 3.5 billion? I'd bloody well keep my mouth shut for a million. you wanna give that back and go to jail or get executed? ...think.

    Motivations? Where to start. Control...money......more control... more money.... did I mention all the money you can carry. People do whatever you tell to....whenever.
    Conquest probably plays also as they are all essentially insane...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2hands wrote:
    where are all of the scientists and legit experts backing these theories up?

    How bout four fucking hundred and sixty plus engineers?

    Patriots Question 911

    And yes its a fucking 911 truth site.

    DUH!
    :rolleyes:
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    You fail to understand when you become part of it, you're an accomplice and you can be blackmailed....or worse. You are property. It's like joining the mafia...you keep your mouth shut, and do what you're told after that.
    like sammy "the bull" gravano? i think you are "failing to understand" human beings... this would notbe kept quiet for 7 years... especially not the size conspiracy you are talking about... mossad, pakistani intelligence, building owners, us intelligence, politicians, us military, arab patsies, people planting explosives (do you know how many it would take to load the 3 wtc buildings?!?)
  • Also you know what's funny? You never hear much about the mafia these days

    They sure as hell didn't disappear.

    Who's to say they aren't working on the inside now? "Get in the car we're going for a ride".....a quick set of photos with some naked whore.

    You do what you're told or your career and life are ruined along with your reputation. Play along and you're a very rich man. Your choice. All you've ever wanted or a life of hell....maybe even your very life.

    Just a thought. You never know. It's not as if criminal elements aren't already operating inside. We know there are for sure criminals in office, and It could be that bad. Who knows. They murder millions of people without batting an eye. I'd say very strong plausibility.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • my2hands wrote:
    like sammy "the bull" gravano? i think you are "failing to understand" human beings... this would notbe kept quiet for 7 years... especially not the size conspiracy you are talking about... mossad, pakistani intelligence, building owners, us intelligence, politicians, us military, arab patsies, people planting explosives (do you know how many it would take to load the 3 wtc buildings?!?)


    You assume they are still even alive and super pissed about getting tons of cash or not worried for their life.

    Nobody would believe one person anyway. All they would have is words. they would have to group together. Not bloody likely.

    Ever see one person take on a just a corporation? You need to get a bunch or people together to make a case, and then maybe it sticks.

    I don't think it took more than 20 people that know anything damaging to do this tops.

    This notion of it taking hundreds of people knowing the entire operation is nonsense.

    Need to know basis, only a few at the top need know everything. Everyone else might have their suspicions, some very strong, and maybe even think whoa...holy shit?! but what the fuck are they going to do about it? Links in a chain is not the entire chain, you only see the ass of the guy in front of you not the whole conga line.

    can't prove anything except ruin your life over it.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Also you know what's funny? You never hear much about the mafia these days

    They sure as hell didn't disappear.

    Who's to say they aren't working on the inside now?

    The CIA "Family Jewels" File, Released (with redactions, of course) in June 2007, after 40 years:

    Item #2 -- "Johnny Roselli -- The use of a member of the Mafia in an attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro."

    I'm so sure things have changed in the last 40 years, right?

    Both our government and the mob got honest, right?
    ;)


    FYI for all the blockheads in here, Jim Garrison, then district attorney of New Orleans, BROUGH THE JFK CONSPIRACY TO TRIAL LESS THAN FOUR YEARS AFTER IT HAPPENED. Several of his witnesses ended up mysteriously dead -- most notably David Ferrie (integral part of the "conspiracy") -- and the JURY did not convict Clay Shaw (mostly because Garrison had no real proof at the time -- outside of Ferrie's testimony before his death -- that Shaw was a CIA asset) ...

    40 years later, EVERYTHING Garrison alleged turned out to be true, the CIA has sense admitted that Shaw was CIA, as well.

    POINT IN QUESTION: YOU FUCKING SAY IF SHIT WAS A CONSPIRACY, SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TALKED.

    POINT ANSWERED: SHIT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, BEEN BROUGHT TO TRIAL WITH VIDEO EVIDENCE (back and to the left, anyone?) AND LOTS OF CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, WITHIN A HALF DECADE OF A CONSPIRACY, AND NOTHING FUCKING HAPPENED.

    So what is your fucking point, then?

    Shit happens. People question it. No one believes them.
    40 years later, STILL you have idiots who don't believe it.

    Oh well.
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • The CIA "Family Jewels" File, Released (with redactions, of course) in June 2007, after 40 years:

    Item #2 -- "Johnny Roselli -- The use of a member of the Mafia in an attempt to assassinate Fidel Castro."

    I'm so sure things have changed in the last 40 years, right?

    Both our government and the mob got honest, right?
    ;)


    No shit eh?

    blows my fucking mind to pieces...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
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