So you are saying you have an answer and explanation for everything that has happened in your life so far, and everything that has resulted from it was/is from a conscious decision? You can explain it all.
Either you have a crystal ball, are God himself, or are perhaps not correct with that line of thought.
well, as you might know, i have my own faith. And from experiences that i've had, within my family, and as an individual i see things that have resulted because of certain circumstances which could have been avoided. Because of my faith and for what I believe I'm able to discern things in certain ways and understand that certain things are at my grasp and fully accessible to my knowledge. It doesn't mean that I know everything though. It simply means that everything that surrounds me, tangible or intangible, are completely at my hand for the taking.
I'm not saying everything has resulted from a conscious decision but I am saying that I had the ability to be fully aware of the circumstances and thus completely avoiding them. I don't have a crystal ball, I'm not God and neither am I incorrect at what I am saying. Cause all I'm saying is that everything that is at reach is completely at my risk. Heck, even the entire world is at my risk. Even the weather changes because of choices that I've made.
Well, I'm open to different ideas... so let's not conclude anything here. This is simply what I believe. If you have anything otherwise to show me then I'll change my mind.... or how does it go? Nature changes it for me? I don't know... help me out.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I'd like to know whether you have kids or not. Whether a loved one close to you suffers from cancer or emphysema. Because I usually can read posts from holier-than-thou folks and either respond once with a pissed off statement, and then let it go, or not respond at all and then let it go. But something about your posts just gets under my skin, Angelica, and you're starting to piss me off.
Your posts come off as coming from that kid in the playground who says, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Your posts are getting added to threads that should've and could've stopped days ago, yet you increase the broadband width by giving us empty spaces of quotes and bold letters and yet you have nothing new to say. You just smugly sit back as if you have all the answers and you calmly bait one person after another, all the while having nothing new to say.
Tell you what? Why don't you respond to my new post here in the Train tonight rather than add a 12th page to a topic that has been completely mangled and misled by you when it should've and could've died a natural death with some dignity days ago?
Meantime, I'll go to bed. Because I'm sure your smarmy responses will be there in the morning.
*Note to everyone else -- forgive me for getting my back up. But....really!*
well, as you might know, i have my own faith. And from experiences that i've had, within my family, and as an individual i see things that have resulted because of certain circumstances which could have been avoided. Because of my faith and for what I believe I'm able to discern things in certain ways and understand that certain things are at my grasp and fully accessible to my knowledge. It doesn't mean that I know everything though. It simply means that everything that surrounds me, tangible or intangible, are completely at my hand for the taking.
I'm not saying everything has resulted from a conscious decision but I am saying that I had the ability to be fully aware of the circumstances and thus completely avoiding them. I don't have a crystal ball, I'm not God and neither am I incorrect at what I am saying. Cause all I'm saying is that everything that is at reach is completely at my risk. Heck, even the entire world is at my risk. Even the weather changes because of choices that I've made.
Well, I'm open to different ideas... so let's not conclude anything here. This is simply what I believe. If you have anything otherwise to show me then I'll change my mind.... or how does it go? Nature changes it for me? I don't know... help me out.
so you speak to god and he tells you... ok
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
did i say that? i didn't say that. i said that everything i've gone through, with or without my family, now that i see things, were completely avoidable. Like for instance, a dumb little kid in mid-teens that takes his dad's car out for a drive. Becuase of his immaturity he "unconsciously" speeds and drives wrecklessly... but now that the kid has grown and matured, he can see the mistakes he'd done as a kid and avoid them. Sure, you can say that his past experience influenced his choices... so therefore he really has no choice. Not really. Cause there are still horrible drivers out there who like to speed just for the hell of it. Like my brother-in-law... he drives 90 mph everytime we're on the highway. is it his choice to speed? or is the universe fixing this?
you haven't shown to me or even explained how is it that I don't have choice. You keep asking rhetorical questions that don't even make sense.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
did i say that? i didn't say that. i said that everything i've gone through, with or without my family, now that i see things, were completely avoidable. Like for instance, a dumb little kid in mid-teens that takes his dad's car out for a drive. Becuase of his immaturity he "unconsciously" speeds and drives wrecklessly... but now that the kid has grown and matured, he can see the mistakes he'd done as a kid and avoid them. Sure, you can say that his past experience influenced his choices... so therefore he really has no choice. Not really. Cause there are still horrible drivers out there who like to speed just for the hell of it. Like my brother-in-law... he drives 90 mph everytime we're on the highway. is it his choice to speed? or is the universe fixing this?
you haven't shown to me or even explained how is it that I don't have choice. You keep asking rhetorical questions that don't even make sense.
Do you pose questions to god and does he answer them?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
yes, i know. but answer mine and i'll answer yours. hehe
That's ok, you just answered mine.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
wow... awesome.... so you knew i was gonna say, "yes and no"?
so now answer mine.... why do you ask?
That's ok I'm satisfied with the conversation now. Be at peace.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I'd like to know whether you have kids or not. Whether a loved one close to you suffers from cancer or emphysema. Because I usually can read posts from holier-than-thou folks and either respond once with a pissed off statement, and then let it go, or not respond at all and then let it go. But something about your posts just gets under my skin, Angelica, and you're starting to piss me off.
Your posts come off as coming from that kid in the playground who says, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Your posts are getting added to threads that should've and could've stopped days ago, yet you increase the broadband width by giving us empty spaces of quotes and bold letters and yet you have nothing new to say. You just smugly sit back as if you have all the answers and you calmly bait one person after another, all the while having nothing new to say.
Tell you what? Why don't you respond to my new post here in the Train tonight rather than add a 12th page to a topic that has been completely mangled and misled by you when it should've and could've died a natural death with some dignity days ago?
Meantime, I'll go to bed. Because I'm sure your smarmy responses will be there in the morning.
*Note to everyone else -- forgive me for getting my back up. But....really!*
Whoa...anger...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Yes, indeed, people. We live by chance. Peace to all.
It's not that...I just realized where you're coming from that's all.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It's not that...I just realized where you're coming from that's all.
normally... suggesting from the link you provided, you'd think i'd agree that everything is predetermined. am i right?
cos i know the majority of christians believe that everything is a cause of "fate".... even my own former pastor taught it. it was one of the few major things i disagreed with him. and none of it made sense. not even the bible supports it. the only scriptures i could think of are in romans and ephesians....
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
normally... suggesting from the link you provided, you'd think i'd agree that everything is predetermined. am i right?
cos i know the majority of christians believe that everything is a cause of "fate".... even my own former pastor taught it. it was one of the few major things i disagreed with him. and none of it made sense. not even the bible supports it. the only scriptures i could think of are in romans and ephesians....
The only thing I can say is there are two very different schools of opinion and both are structured in a way so as to nearly encompass the act of thought itself.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The only thing I can say is there are two very different schools of opinion and both are structured in a way so as to nearly encompass the act of thought itself.
that or the bible never supports the concept of "fate".
I again saw under the sun that the (A)race is not to the swift and the (B)battle is not to the warriors, and neither is bread to the wise nor (C)wealth to the discerning nor favor to men of ability; for time and (D)chance overtake them all. Ephesians 9:11
wow, that's a great scripture... i think i'll add it to my footer...
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
that or the bible never supports the concept of "fate".
I again saw under the sun that the (A)race is not to the swift and the (B)battle is not to the warriors, and neither is bread to the wise nor (C)wealth to the discerning nor favor to men of ability; for time and (D)chance overtake them all. Ephesians 9:11
Well yeah...that's exactly what I'm saying. Two schools of thought. One rests predominantly on of pure faith of a notion. The other deals with physical evidence. What is the scripture for?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Well yeah...that's exactly what I'm saying. Two schools of thought. One rests predominantly on of pure faith of a notion. The other deals with physical evidence. What is the scripture for?
to show you that the scripture is saying that we live by "chance".
you know, "time and (D)chance overtake them all"
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
So how then does it advance the situation by saying that people are responsible for getting their illness? Like shit, sometimes illness just happens. And people do what they can and are able to do when they are confronted with it. To say that they are able to magically, mentally "wish" it away, just as they manifested it, really seems like appropriating blame to me, given that sometimes there is no rhyme or reason for things.
I haven't said people can magically, mentally wish illness away just as they manifested it.
I don't know about "natural laws". Any "laws" always give me pause for consideration because I deem them arbitrary and I'm not one for blindly, or unfalteringly following anything. Yes, we are connected to our bodies but that doesn't mean we are always in charge of what they do.
I realize we are not always in charge of what our bodies do. We are still our bodies, and we are a part of what they do.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It seems like the primary misunderstanding is with causation and human choice.
It's like, people have no problem with causation until it comes to human decisions. Then it's satisfactory to say "It was a choice", implying that choice is the ultimate cause. But that is not satisfactory for anything else. We have a raging debate on wether or not the universe was caused by a big bang or God snapping it's fingers, wether evolution is the cause of species or God snapping it's fingers.
Fate/Destiny can be simply understood by asking "What caused that decision?"
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It's like, people have no problem with causation until it comes to human decisions. Then it's satisfactory to say "It was a choice", implying that choice is the ultimate cause.
I don't think people think choice is the ultimate cause. They just recognize that they have choice, even amongst causes.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It seems like the primary misunderstanding is with causation and human choice.
It's like, people have no problem with causation until it comes to human decisions. Then it's satisfactory to say "It was a choice", implying that choice is the ultimate cause. But that is not satisfactory for anything else. We have a raging debate on wether or not the universe was caused by a big bang or God snapping it's fingers, wether evolution is the cause of species or God snapping it's fingers.
Fate/Destiny can be simply understood by asking "What caused that decision?"
was every decision caused by something?
haven't you made decisions just because?
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
And your thoughts and emotions as to what makes you think the way you do....all your choice I presume?
hmm...you'd be the first.
ahhhhhhhhh...i didn't realize that this was going to be one of *those* threads; ya know, the ones where the op poses a question...but rather than actually wanting discussion really is ONLY looking for someone to post exactly what is in his/her head....complete agreement with their personal opinion...or they will simply attack your views.
sorry i missed the cues. seems to be WAY too many threads here that are all about 'agree with me or i'll tell you why you are oh so wrong'...rahter than looking for true discussion.
things is, you betcha...i absolutely believe my thoughts are my own choice. if they weren't, we wouldn't have anything original ever created, no original thought...so no new music, discoveries, art, etc. just b/c my brians biochemistry regulates my brain function...does not to me signify i had not have choice in what i think about. outside stimuli playing an important role, and sure.....one can 'choose' to clear their mind, redirect thought, etc.
as to emotions, i will concede they are much more difficult to control, much more primitive triggers to react to the outside world and thus have an 'emotional' response. none the less...i do believe it is still possible, and while i don't have any links/studies...and yep, too lazy to bother...i do believe learning of studies/experiements in relation to emotional response and control of emotional response.
that said, i think a lot of all *this* boils down to semantics. i see many discussing illness/disease...and while yes, some may stem from external factors, or some things within your control...oftentimes there is a predisposition to disease. is that fate? i never thought so....just genetics....and/or chance. if one wants to call that 'fate'...so be it. riht along with all the other predetermined factors of one's genetic make-up....personality, etc. as i've said, i don't consider any of 'that' fate....more like...you are who you are. starting with the point that who we are is a *given*....beyond that, i believe in choice. however, then it boils down to a discussion of semantics. thus, if you or anyone wants to truly believe that having an illness, or a propensity to being obese, etc...is fate...so be it. as i said, i see it as genetics. if genetic is part of fate...fine. it's just not how i view the world.
ahhhhhhhhh...i didn't realize that this was going to be one of *those* threads; ya know, the ones where the op poses a question...but rather than actually wanting discussion really is ONLY looking for someone to post exactly what is in his/her head....complete agreement with their personal opinion...or they will simply attack your views.
sorry i missed the cues. seems to be WAY too many threads here that are all about 'agree with me or i'll tell you why you are oh so wrong'...rahter than looking for true discussion.
things is, you betcha...i absolutely believe my thoughts are my own choice. if they weren't, we wouldn't have anything original ever created, no original thought...so no new music, discoveries, art, etc. just b/c my brians biochemistry regulates my brain function...does not to me signify i had not have choice in what i think about. outside stimuli playing an important role, and sure.....one can 'choose' to clear their mind, redirect thought, etc.
as to emotions, i will concede they are much more difficult to control, much more primitive triggers to react to the outside world and thus have an 'emotional' response. none the less...i do believe it is still possible, and while i don't have any links/studies...and yep, too lazy to bother...i do believe learning of studies/experiements in relation to emotional response and control of emotional response.
that said, i think a lot of all *this* boils down to semantics. i see many discussing illness/disease...and while yes, some may stem from external factors, or some things within your control...oftentimes there is a predisposition to disease. is that fate? i never thought so....just genetics....and/or chance. if one wants to call that 'fate'...so be it. riht along with all the other predetermined factors of one's genetic make-up....personality, etc. as i've said, i don't consider any of 'that' fate....more like...you are who you are. starting with the point that who we are is a *given*....beyond that, i believe in choice. however, then it boils down to a discussion of semantics. thus, if you or anyone wants to truly believe that having an illness, or a propensity to being obese, etc...is fate...so be it. as i said, i see it as genetics. if genetic is part of fate...fine. it's just not how i view the world.
c'est la vie.
i view fate like the mind of God. omniscient. but just cos he knows everything doesn't mean he's responsible for everything.
or put it this way.... grab a paper, tear it into pieces and throw the pieces in the air. you may have been the instigator but the positions that every piece landed is not your fault.
i see us the same way... sure, there are laws and confines that we are subjected to. i truly believe that. but just like the pieces of papers that landed all on randoms spots, through the cause of the universal laws and confines of this earth we are spread out to do things. but how we do them and what we do with them are all our own choices.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
it cracks me up that people pull out arguments that they make sound definitive and factual when they're not even close to being that way. to deny someone's argument that it is all up to chance and coincidence because of 'god' or some 'cosmic force' is denying someone else's opinion based on an assumption that one of these things actually exist. now let's not get into a 'god's real/god's a lie!' thing because god knows that's when all the shit's going to fly. fact of the matter is this is a philisophical, theoretical discussion in which people need to dicuss why fate might or might not be a real, deciding factor in our lives. don't shut someone down because their opinion doesn't embody some sort of religious views you might have. if you've got some sort of documentation that god's real and knows our path, than feel free to let me know. and pleeeease don't waste any time quoting scripture or referring me to the bible or any other holy book. they have no more validity here than your own opinions do.
Do you see the way that tree bends?
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
Comments
I'm not saying everything has resulted from a conscious decision but I am saying that I had the ability to be fully aware of the circumstances and thus completely avoiding them. I don't have a crystal ball, I'm not God and neither am I incorrect at what I am saying. Cause all I'm saying is that everything that is at reach is completely at my risk. Heck, even the entire world is at my risk. Even the weather changes because of choices that I've made.
Well, I'm open to different ideas... so let's not conclude anything here. This is simply what I believe. If you have anything otherwise to show me then I'll change my mind.... or how does it go? Nature changes it for me? I don't know... help me out.
ooh Bubu...I adore you
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
so you speak to god and he tells you... ok
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
you haven't shown to me or even explained how is it that I don't have choice. You keep asking rhetorical questions that don't even make sense.
Do you pose questions to god and does he answer them?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
simple question...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
That's ok, you just answered mine.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
so now answer mine.... why do you ask?
That's ok I'm satisfied with the conversation now. Be at peace.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Yes, indeed, people. We live by chance. Peace to all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Whoa...anger...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
It's not that...I just realized where you're coming from that's all.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
cos i know the majority of christians believe that everything is a cause of "fate".... even my own former pastor taught it. it was one of the few major things i disagreed with him. and none of it made sense. not even the bible supports it. the only scriptures i could think of are in romans and ephesians....
The only thing I can say is there are two very different schools of opinion and both are structured in a way so as to nearly encompass the act of thought itself.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I again saw under the sun that the (A)race is not to the swift and the (B)battle is not to the warriors, and neither is bread to the wise nor (C)wealth to the discerning nor favor to men of ability; for time and (D)chance overtake them all. Ephesians 9:11
wow, that's a great scripture... i think i'll add it to my footer...
Well yeah...that's exactly what I'm saying. Two schools of thought. One rests predominantly on of pure faith of a notion. The other deals with physical evidence. What is the scripture for?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
you know, "time and (D)chance overtake them all"
I realize we are not always in charge of what our bodies do. We are still our bodies, and we are a part of what they do.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
It's like, people have no problem with causation until it comes to human decisions. Then it's satisfactory to say "It was a choice", implying that choice is the ultimate cause. But that is not satisfactory for anything else. We have a raging debate on wether or not the universe was caused by a big bang or God snapping it's fingers, wether evolution is the cause of species or God snapping it's fingers.
Fate/Destiny can be simply understood by asking "What caused that decision?"
sorry jeanie, but i don't believe things just happen. i believe in cause and effect.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
haven't you made decisions just because?
ahhhhhhhhh...i didn't realize that this was going to be one of *those* threads; ya know, the ones where the op poses a question...but rather than actually wanting discussion really is ONLY looking for someone to post exactly what is in his/her head....complete agreement with their personal opinion...or they will simply attack your views.
sorry i missed the cues. seems to be WAY too many threads here that are all about 'agree with me or i'll tell you why you are oh so wrong'...rahter than looking for true discussion.
things is, you betcha...i absolutely believe my thoughts are my own choice. if they weren't, we wouldn't have anything original ever created, no original thought...so no new music, discoveries, art, etc. just b/c my brians biochemistry regulates my brain function...does not to me signify i had not have choice in what i think about. outside stimuli playing an important role, and sure.....one can 'choose' to clear their mind, redirect thought, etc.
as to emotions, i will concede they are much more difficult to control, much more primitive triggers to react to the outside world and thus have an 'emotional' response. none the less...i do believe it is still possible, and while i don't have any links/studies...and yep, too lazy to bother...i do believe learning of studies/experiements in relation to emotional response and control of emotional response.
that said, i think a lot of all *this* boils down to semantics. i see many discussing illness/disease...and while yes, some may stem from external factors, or some things within your control...oftentimes there is a predisposition to disease. is that fate? i never thought so....just genetics....and/or chance. if one wants to call that 'fate'...so be it. riht along with all the other predetermined factors of one's genetic make-up....personality, etc. as i've said, i don't consider any of 'that' fate....more like...you are who you are. starting with the point that who we are is a *given*....beyond that, i believe in choice. however, then it boils down to a discussion of semantics. thus, if you or anyone wants to truly believe that having an illness, or a propensity to being obese, etc...is fate...so be it. as i said, i see it as genetics. if genetic is part of fate...fine. it's just not how i view the world.
c'est la vie.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
or put it this way.... grab a paper, tear it into pieces and throw the pieces in the air. you may have been the instigator but the positions that every piece landed is not your fault.
i see us the same way... sure, there are laws and confines that we are subjected to. i truly believe that. but just like the pieces of papers that landed all on randoms spots, through the cause of the universal laws and confines of this earth we are spread out to do things. but how we do them and what we do with them are all our own choices.
Does it inspire?
Leaning out to catch the sun's rays...
A lesson to be applied.
Best night of my life. . .
Noblesville, IN 06-22-03.
myspace.com/justonemorebottle