Trouble With Atheism

12467…14

Comments

  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    hippiemom wrote:
    Definitions of religion.
    definitions are subjective and ever changing. A hundred years ago no one would have ever thought that marriage would be used to describe a relationship between two men. But the meaning has changed. I think the meaning of religion has to change to accomodate the possible rise in atheism.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    Let's consistantly use the same verbiage used as with religious people, you're a fundamentalist atheist. Either that or the descriptive word for some religious people would be Active Muslim, Active Catholic.

    I carefully selected Active for it's definition

    Active
    characterized by action rather than by contemplation or speculation

    I've seen the same type of atheist referred to as Radical

    Radical
    marked by a considerable departure from the usual or traditional

    Atheism is only one simple point, there is no deity, there isn't room for radicalism, but certainly there are a number of activists, hence Active Atheism.

    Fundamentalist
    a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles

    Again, atheism is only one principle, you either are or aren't atheist, there is neither strict or lenient adherence to the one principle that God does not exist.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    definitions are subjective and ever changing. A hundred years ago no one would have ever thought that marriage would be used to describe a relationship between two men. But the meaning has changed. I think the meaning of religion has to change to accomodate the possible rise in atheism.

    Many more examples would be, queer, gay, fag, homo, dike, pussy, etc.. etc..

    But you couldn't call an apple an orange at this point and expect anyone to understand you.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Again, atheism is only one principle, you either are or aren't atheist, there is strict or lenient adherence to the one principle that God does not exist.
    How can that be a principal when an atheist can also hold out that God may exist?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    gue_barium wrote:
    No, I'm far from contemplating the existence of god.

    The links were good reading. Thanks.

    contemplating the non-existence or defending the non-existence does make the subject matter God. you are here talking about God. how can you deny that? if God truely doesn't exist to you; then you are talking about nothing?
    God exists to those who accept them.

    (the best part of this board is being able to debate different issues yet still remain friends. i respect your views and your right to them. one day God may exist for you. we can't predict the future. i'll still defend your right to believe what ever you want to believe. my opinion is different; but in the realm of things; my opinion is only valid to me.)
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    surferdude wrote:
    definitions are subjective and ever changing. A hundred years ago no one would have ever thought that marriage would be used to describe a relationship between two men. But the meaning has changed. I think the meaning of religion has to change to accomodate the possible rise in atheism.
    I think we may need an entirely new word or phrase. For most people, the word "religion" conjures up an image of a holy book or a church or temple of some kind, or a congregation of like-minded people. That's the most common usage of the word, and atheism features none of these things. I prefer new words over tacking additional definitions on to old words ... it saves having to continuously tell people, "Well, that's not what I mean when I say religion."
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    How can that be a principal when an atheist can also hold out that God may exist?

    The idea that God may exist is agnosticism.

    What I suggest is a divide between philosophical thoughts and operational attitude. For example, I know philosophically that the concept of God is a possibility amongst an endless array of possibilities. That makes me philosophically agnostic. But in my day-to-day life, God does not exist and therefor I am atheist. The possibility is out there, but operationally I am atheist. I don't go to church, I don't pray, I don't recite the Canadian National Anthem or the Charter of Human Rights and I think the word God should be removed from all of that political stuff and I hope one day our species will grow out of these delusions of supernaturality.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I have a knack for getting people riled up. I don't even try.

    i think you're a nutter but i still like you. and if you needed help i'd lend a hand if i could. i hope you don't take this personal.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    onelongsong wrote:
    contemplating the non-existence or defending the non-existence does make the subject matter God. you are here talking about God. how can you deny that? if God truely doesn't exist to you; then you are talking about nothing?
    God exists to those who accept them.

    (the best part of this board is being able to debate different issues yet still remain friends. i respect your views and your right to them. one day God may exist for you. we can't predict the future. i'll still defend your right to believe what ever you want to believe. my opinion is different; but in the realm of things; my opinion is only valid to me.)

    You're sort of using the argument I used with ahnimus a week or so ago. I still say God is a mathematical certainty, but any honest interpretation of that relies entirely on the language.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    hippiemom wrote:
    I prefer new words over tacking additional definitions on to old words ...
    Where was attitude during the debate over gay marriage?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    onelongsong wrote:
    contemplating the non-existence or defending the non-existence does make the subject matter God. you are here talking about God. how can you deny that? if God truely doesn't exist to you; then you are talking about nothing?
    There was a thread about superheroes a couple of weeks ago, and I'm pretty sure that none of those who participated in it REALLY believe that Superman exists. Where did you get this idea that you have to believe in something before you can talk about it?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The idea that God may exist is agnosticism.
    Then why did your opening salvo include "many atheists do not deny the possibility of the existence of a God"? Is this person an atheist or an agnostic?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    onelongsong wrote:
    i think you're a nutter but i still like you. and if you needed help i'd lend a hand if i could. i hope you don't take this personal.

    I thought a nutter was some kind of new fangled treat.

    I don't really ever need help. I mean, I come from a family that views things differently I guess. I clean out my dad's eave's trough because he can't, not because he needs help. It's just the thing to do, it's my chore. He can shovel his snow, but I'm younger and haven't suffered a heart attack, so I do it. We are like one big collective doing what we all do best for the bennefit of each other. So it's difficult for me to quanlify it as helping each other, as much it's just doing what's required for the prosperity of our collective.

    The same reason I stayed late after work last night when the dude didn't show up for his shift. I didn't stay to help him out. I was concerned for the overall prosperity of the company and the millions tied up in contracts that require someone to be here 24/7. Again, for the collective, which ultimately ends in my bennefit as well.

    Same reason I can be seen/heard undermining religion and the illusion of free-will. :P

    But anyway, if you want to send me a bit of cash that's cool too. ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Ahnimus wrote:
    The idea that God may exist is agnosticism.

    What I suggest is a divide between philosophical thoughts and operational attitude. For example, I know philosophically that the concept of God is a possibility amongst an endless array of possibilities. That makes me philosophically agnostic. But in my day-to-day life, God does not exist and therefor I am atheist. The possibility is out there, but operationally I am atheist. I don't go to church, I don't pray, I don't recite the Canadian National Anthem or the Charter of Human Rights and I think the word God should be removed from all of that political stuff and I hope one day our species will grow out of these delusions of supernaturality.

    you're a great preacher. you've got a label for everyone and defend your beliefs while consistantly discounting others.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    Then why did your opening salvo include "many atheists do not deny the possibility of the existence of a God"? Is this person an atheist or an agnostic?

    I don't deny the possibility of the teacup orbitting the sun, or the flying spaghetti monster. But I don't believe either of them exist.

    For example, a theist could say "It is possible God does not exist, but I believe he does." as opposed to an atheist "It is possible God does exist, but I believe he does not."
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    surferdude wrote:
    Where was attitude during the debate over gay marriage?
    I go to the courthouse and have a ceremony and I'm married, the ladies across the street do the same thing and they're something else? Why? It seems terribly impractical ... all the laws and codes and regulations that would need to be rewritten with the new word, all for people who aren't doing anything new at all.

    Language is for communication. If I say that the ladies across the street are married, everyone knows exactly what that means, so I don't see why a new word would be called for.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Dustin51
    Dustin51 Posts: 222
    It's crazy to me that religion is so important that you can't just not be anything. If you don't want to be anything then you are athiest or agnostic. It's kind of messed up. It's like if you said yeah, I dont really get into football much and the football guys said well then you must like the Texas Atheist...and you're like no man I dont want to like any team and everyones like too bad you must be a fan of the atheist.

    I'm going to start a atheism church.
    Be excellent to each other
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    hippiemom wrote:
    I go to the courthouse and have a ceremony and I'm married, the ladies across the street do the same thing and they're something else? Why? It seems terribly impractical ... all the laws and codes and regulations that would need to be rewritten with the new word, all for people who aren't doing anything new at all.

    Language is for communication. If I say that the ladies across the street are married, everyone knows exactly what that means, so I don't see why a new word would be called for.

    Whereas if I said "That gentlemen is a tad queer, don't you say?" I may or may not mean homosexual.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Whereas if I said "That gentlemen is a tad queer, don't you say?" I may or may not mean homosexual.
    Am I even allowed to say soccer is gay???
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Dustin51 wrote:
    I'm going to start a atheism church.

    If you do that then it gives some creedance to what the anti-atheists are trying to convince people of. Besides I guarantee there is already a "Church of Atheism" much as there is a "Church of the Universe" for people that like to smoke pot.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

Categories