Ultimately it's a health issue, mainly because the people who are addicted to smoking are not themselves free. They are trapped in a lethal embrace to an addictive substance.
I used to smoke for many years. Now that I'm finally free from it, even the faintest smell of it makes me feel physically ill.
I also now notice how stupid and foolish people look from a distance when they are smoking i.e. either in their cars or walking down the street puffing away.
It's a really disgusting thing to do to yourself if you truly stop and think about it.
So explain to me why you can't smoke on an outdoor patio at the bar. Those with the smoke free lungs can't handle it outside either? Silly rule if you ask me. If the gov't is making huge bucks on making death sticks, people should be able to use them where they want. Bottom line from me.
And yes to smoke filled bars without people complaining about it.
Look, I don't agree with people smoking indoors in an enclosed space, but I'm not anti-smoking, and if you want to smoke I don't care as long as it doesn't affect me. Like I said, here in Ireland most pubs provide sheltered areas where people can smoke and everyone seems ok with that. As for the gov't, I know most politicians are arseholes, but maybe sometimes they are actually doing something for the good of most people.
Nearly all the bars and restaurants in my town are non-smoking by choice, not by government fiat. When I smoked, this didn't bug me in the least bit. The forced ban, however, does.
generally no bar wants to be the first...so won't happen unless its legislated....where do you live???
Look, I don't agree with people smoking indoors in an enclosed space, but I'm not anti-smoking, and if you want to smoke I don't care as long as it doesn't affect me. Like I said, here in Ireland most pubs provide sheltered areas where people can smoke and everyone seems ok with that. As for the gov't, I know most politicians are arseholes, but maybe sometimes they are actually doing something for the good of most people.
I don't care if you want to listen to shitty techno music either, as long as it doesn't affect me. I still don't support legislation against deafening music that I hate though. I also don't care if you want to bathe in cologne before going out. I will find another place if there are too many smelly people in a bar. The fact of the matter is, in any of these situations, it is a personal choice as to whether I patronize the business and it is their choice as to whether the want to target me as a customer.
generally no bar wants to be the first...so won't happen unless its legislated....where do you live???
Chapel Hill/Carrboro in North Carolina. The vast majority of restaurants here are non-smoking only. The bars are probably 60/40 non-smoking to smoking.
This "no bar wants to be the first" logic is ludicrous. If that logic had any merit, there wouldn't be any bars.
Chapel Hill/Carrboro in North Carolina. The vast majority of restaurants here are non-smoking only. The bars are probably 60/40 non-smoking to smoking.
This "no bar wants to be the first" logic is ludicrous. If that logic had any merit, there wouldn't be any bars.
theres not one bar in thousands in Houston that are smoke free..none...and its simply because owners don't want to alienate smokers and risk losing business
Banning loud obnoxious people from the bars would be a good law too. So would banning perfume and cologne since some people may have asthma attacks from the stench.
I don't agree with these statements. I am just carrying on the "good law" logic.
Obnoxious people however do not lead to a slow death...unless you have stress issues ....as for perfume/cologne I see what you are getting at let me see the evidence saying it leads to the death of people then I will be for it....my point is that it is a health issue...one that has been proven it leads to the illness of those not wishing to partake in the activity....
theres not one bar in thousands in Houston that are smoke free..none...and its simply because owners don't want to alienate smokers and risk losing business
Which is the biggest faux arguement out there...."lose business"....you would be surprised how many smokers no matter how much they initially hate the law learn to not mind it....at least all my smoker friends love the law....at first not but once you get used to it and a nice smoke free bar without a fucking haze hovering around and the fact when you get home your clothes do not stink like smokes....
Which is the biggest faux arguement out there...."lose business"....you would be surprised how many smokers no matter how much they initially hate the law learn to not mind it....at least all my smoker friends love the law....at first not but once you get used to it and a nice smoke free bar without a fucking haze hovering around and the fact when you get home your clothes do not stink like smokes....
I have no problem with non smoking establishments at all. I support that choice as well.
I have no problem with non smoking establishments at all. I support that choice as well.
You know I do not agree with you on the issue however I do respect your points and they are indeed very valid...and honestly they are what creates a problem when I look at the logic of my belief in the manner....as I can see both sides perfectly well and both have great arguements....however I choose what is for the greater good of the populace.....
You know I do not agree with you on the issue however I do respect your points and they are indeed very valid...and honestly they are what creates a problem when I look at the logic of my belief in the manner....as I can see both sides perfectly well and both have great arguements....however I choose what is for the greater good of the populace.....
Very understandable. I can see how you came to that point.
Very understandable. I can see how you came to that point.
Trust me friend I have problems with this arguement because I actually to some point agree with your points....making it very hard to settle on what I think is the correct choice....based upon rights and all that....
You know I do not agree with you on the issue however I do respect your points and they are indeed very valid...and honestly they are what creates a problem when I look at the logic of my belief in the manner....as I can see both sides perfectly well and both have great arguements....however I choose what is for the greater good of the populace.....
yea, its like the trans fat issue. government is banning it, when maybe I should have the choice to eat if I choose to or not. but honestly, I am glad its gone.
banning smoking in bars is 100% for the greater good.
we just need to be careful. I just do not like governement getting involved in much, not to mention telling me what I can and cant do. but in thise case, its for the best.
yea, its like the trans fat issue. government is banning it, when maybe I should have the choice to eat if I choose to or not. but honestly, I am glad its gone.
banning smoking in bars is 100% for the greater good.
we just need to be careful. I just do not like governement getting involved in much, not to mention telling me what I can and cant do. but in thise case, its for the best.
"It's for the best" is what makes me okay with my view on the matter...however I understand it is personal choice as well.....but yeah greater good trumps all.....
seems that sooner or later this will be a law enacted across the country. how do people feel about his? is it this a freedom issue? health issue?
other boards have long debates about this. I tend to smoke when I drink so its kinda tough to not be able to at a bar. but I very much encourage this law for the simple fact that second hand smoke does kill. but this is also another thing the government is telling us we cant do. and thoughts?
"It's for the best" is what makes me okay with my view on the matter...however I understand it is personal choice as well.....but yeah greater good trumps all.....
I'm pro-choice in this and every other issue from guns to drugs to prositution to reproduction to contracts to employment, etc... where consenting adults enter into agreements/exchanges. The greater good can be used as a rationalization for a lot of things, so I get a little nervous when I hear that I have to sacrifice for some nebulous greater good.
I understand the argument, it just isn't compelling to me.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I'm pro-choice in this and every other issue from guns to drugs to prositution to reproduction to contracts to employment, etc... where consenting adults enter into agreements/exchanges. The greater good can be used as a rationalization for a lot of things, so I get a little nervous when I hear that I have to sacrifice for some nebulous greater good.
I understand the argument, it just isn't compelling to me.
That is exactly the problem I face when making this decision....you hit it on the head.....
I'm pro-choice in this and every other issue from guns to drugs to prositution to reproduction to contracts to employment, etc... where consenting adults enter into agreements/exchanges. The greater good can be used as a rationalization for a lot of things, so I get a little nervous when I hear that I have to sacrifice for some nebulous greater good.
I understand the argument, it just isn't compelling to me.
thats true. but we are talking about smoking. this is a 100% proven fact that it will kill people who are exposed to it. but I hear what your sayin
Please keep your cancer, poor health, and accelerated death your own little hobby.
Would you like it if I wiped my snot on your face, clothes and hair? that's not even life threatening by the way...lol
Can I walk over to you and fart right in your face? Would smokers be fine with all that? or would you rather I go elsewhere if that was my little hobby?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Great! We're talking about "bars". That word comes from a piece of property, typically belonging to someone that is not you, on which you put your beer.
a bar and a pub are the same thing... we should know as we invented the phrase "pub" back before the US was even 'discovered'.
from wiki
A public house, usually known as a pub, is an establishment which serves alcoholic drinks especially beer for consumption on the premises, usually in a homely setting. Pubs are commonly found in English-speaking countries, particularly in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
In North America, drinking establishments with a British or Irish name or theme are called pubs as well; the appellation "pub" itself is often a component of this theme. Although the terms may have different connotations, there is no definitive difference between pubs, bars, taverns and lounges where alcohol is served commercially.
Public House Licence
A Public House Licence is a licence granted in respect of a public house which authorises the holder to sell by retail alcoholic liquor for consumption on or off the premises.
ever notice that you always evade the points by replying in the form of a question
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Banning loud obnoxious people from the bars would be a good law too. So would banning perfume and cologne since some people may have asthma attacks from the stench.
I don't agree with these statements. I am just carrying on the "good law" logic.
That reasoning is stupid. Loud people give you cancer? Perfume affects everyone's health?
Smoking does...
screw good law logic...how about common sense logic...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
"....smoking will be prohibited in wholly and substantially enclosed public places in Scotland, and it will be an offence to permit smoking or to smoke in no-smoking premises."
the Scottish Courts have decreed that that pubs, bars call it what you will are an "enclosed public space" as this is where the law states a non-smoking ban must be enforced.
An "enclosed public space" is a pub, bar, club, restaurant, taxi, office, library, etc etc
this is regardless of whether a company is private or public (in ownership)...
a bar is, by law, a "public place" and no matter how many riddling questions farfromglorified tries to subject me to... thats what the UK lawyers, MP's, solicitors, etc will agree to... i take their expert opinion over his
and even smokers agree its a good idea
"... New data from Ireland indicate that support among smokers
for a comprehensive ban rose after legislation was introduced.
Support among smokers before and after the ban rose from
43 to 67 per cent, from 45 to 77 per cent and from 13 to 46 per
cent for bans in workplaces, restaurants and pubs, respectively.
After the ban was implemented, 83 per cent of Irish smokers
also said that the legislation was a ‘good’ or ‘very good’ thing."
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Anyone that has quit smoking knows how you become extremely sensitive to smell of cigarette smoke afterwards. This is a fact of life after quitting. I also believe that the most vocal anti-smoking campaigners are previous smokers that have finally quit.
Are these same non-smokers smarter or better than smokers?
I would argue yes, they have connected the balls to the brains of it all and kicked the habit.
2007....still smoking? It's time to quit.
.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
All of my friends who are smokers would agree with me in that they are slaves to the tobacco industry and wish they had never started smoking. I would think any law that would force them to cut back would be appreciated.
Lol, no it actually doesn't. I end up probably smoking just as much in a night... cos I either go to places with patio areas for smokers... OR I spend half the night outside cos it's just so much more fun out there
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
It's not Americans it's just those whinny bitch ass non-smokers. Bunch of pussies they are if you ask me.
Lol... I've always maintained that smokers are nicer people . It's always better to smoke if you start a new job or something cos you immediately get talking to people (forget your lighter or something) and they're so helpful. I guess it's cos we're 'flawed' people and don't mind admitting or showing it. Non-smokers sometimes make out they're perfect cos they have no outwardly flaws - but nobody's perfect.
Same reason I don't trust people who don't drink. Nobody doesn't drink for no reason, if they say there's no reason, they're lying.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
What if you drop the cig in your lap and start a fire? I would think smoking is more of a distraction than changing the radio, but I'm going to stop argueing because I'm guessing you are a smoker. Just a hunch.
Listening to the radio can have you laughing, singing along, headbanging whilst driving... it can make your mind wander to other things other than driving, it's definitely a distraction.
What about talking to others in the car? Same thing.
I'm not saying smoking ISN'T a distraction... but so are quite a few other things... and it probably isn't to quite a few people. If you don't smoke how would you know?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Smokers are some selfish fucking people man... they think they can toss their butts on the ground or out the car window like they are exempt from littering laws? and they have no repsect for others near them, they light it right up in your face, while your eating, etc. fucking disgusting. it is banned in my state, so when a few of us go out to dinner there is always one impatient person in the group that cant wait for a cigarette, they always have to go outside before the food gets there. they come back stinking like shit, and not to mwntion the fact that it is totally rude to leave your table/group to go have a smoke. its like they cant wait or they will die withiout it? doesnt anyone have common respect and manners anymore? just fucking sit there and have a good time, laugh and joke with your company, and then smoke afterwards? is that so hard? now i like to have a smoke once in a great while if i am drinking, but i try to be respectful about it at least.
Attention smokers: The world is not your ashtray. Thank You.
LMFAO... are ya serious? I happen to be one of those rude smelly people :rolleyes: . I'm just a very impatient person and when I'm waiting for something, whether it's food or whatever, I like to smoke so quite often, yes, I DO go out for a cigarette after I've ordered, what's the big fucking deal? You don't want us smoking inside, now you get insulted when we go OUT to fucking smoke? Somebody has issues... ever consider that maybe your company isn't quite so exhilerating in the first place if people need to go out for a cigarette so soon.
As a smoker, I too don't like others smoking around me when I'm eating so I certainly don't do it, even if someone says it's ok. Not all smokers are the same ya know :rolleyes:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Anyone that has quit smoking knows how you become extremely sensitive to smell of cigarette smoke afterwards. This is a fact of life after quitting. I also believe that the most vocal anti-smoking campaigners are previous smokers that have finally quit.
Are these same non-smokers smarter or better than smokers?
I would argue yes, they have connected the balls to the brains of it all and kicked the habit.
2007....still smoking? It's time to quit.
.
EX smokers are the worst kinds of non smokers. They either feel like they're better than the rest of us OR they're jealous that we still smoke :cool: simple as that.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
EX smokers are the worst kinds of non smokers. They either feel like they're better than the rest of us OR they're jealous that we still smoke :cool: simple as that.
Are you speaking from experience? Have you ever quit smoking for more than 6 months?
Jealousy is not it... smoking is a curse. They put ammonia in cigarettes to make the nicotine effect like a crack hit, and just for that reason alone.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
nicotine is worse then crack
generally no bar wants to be the first...so won't happen unless its legislated....where do you live???
I don't care if you want to listen to shitty techno music either, as long as it doesn't affect me. I still don't support legislation against deafening music that I hate though. I also don't care if you want to bathe in cologne before going out. I will find another place if there are too many smelly people in a bar. The fact of the matter is, in any of these situations, it is a personal choice as to whether I patronize the business and it is their choice as to whether the want to target me as a customer.
Chapel Hill/Carrboro in North Carolina. The vast majority of restaurants here are non-smoking only. The bars are probably 60/40 non-smoking to smoking.
This "no bar wants to be the first" logic is ludicrous. If that logic had any merit, there wouldn't be any bars.
It'll probably be chewing gum first.
theres not one bar in thousands in Houston that are smoke free..none...and its simply because owners don't want to alienate smokers and risk losing business
Obnoxious people however do not lead to a slow death...unless you have stress issues
Which is the biggest faux arguement out there...."lose business"....you would be surprised how many smokers no matter how much they initially hate the law learn to not mind it....at least all my smoker friends love the law....at first not but once you get used to it and a nice smoke free bar without a fucking haze hovering around and the fact when you get home your clothes do not stink like smokes....
I have no problem with non smoking establishments at all. I support that choice as well.
You know I do not agree with you on the issue however I do respect your points and they are indeed very valid...and honestly they are what creates a problem when I look at the logic of my belief in the manner....as I can see both sides perfectly well and both have great arguements....however I choose what is for the greater good of the populace.....
Very understandable. I can see how you came to that point.
Trust me friend I have problems with this arguement because I actually to some point agree with your points....making it very hard to settle on what I think is the correct choice....based upon rights and all that....
yea, its like the trans fat issue. government is banning it, when maybe I should have the choice to eat if I choose to or not. but honestly, I am glad its gone.
banning smoking in bars is 100% for the greater good.
we just need to be careful. I just do not like governement getting involved in much, not to mention telling me what I can and cant do. but in thise case, its for the best.
"It's for the best" is what makes me okay with my view on the matter...however I understand it is personal choice as well.....but yeah greater good trumps all.....
from my window to yours
I'm pro-choice in this and every other issue from guns to drugs to prositution to reproduction to contracts to employment, etc... where consenting adults enter into agreements/exchanges. The greater good can be used as a rationalization for a lot of things, so I get a little nervous when I hear that I have to sacrifice for some nebulous greater good.
I understand the argument, it just isn't compelling to me.
That is exactly the problem I face when making this decision....you hit it on the head.....
thats true. but we are talking about smoking. this is a 100% proven fact that it will kill people who are exposed to it. but I hear what your sayin
Would you like it if I wiped my snot on your face, clothes and hair? that's not even life threatening by the way...lol
Can I walk over to you and fart right in your face? Would smokers be fine with all that? or would you rather I go elsewhere if that was my little hobby?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
a bar and a pub are the same thing... we should know as we invented the phrase "pub" back before the US was even 'discovered'.
from wiki
A public house, usually known as a pub, is an establishment which serves alcoholic drinks especially beer for consumption on the premises, usually in a homely setting. Pubs are commonly found in English-speaking countries, particularly in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
In North America, drinking establishments with a British or Irish name or theme are called pubs as well; the appellation "pub" itself is often a component of this theme. Although the terms may have different connotations, there is no definitive difference between pubs, bars, taverns and lounges where alcohol is served commercially.
Public House Licence
A Public House Licence is a licence granted in respect of a public house which authorises the holder to sell by retail alcoholic liquor for consumption on or off the premises.
ever notice that you always evade the points by replying in the form of a question
That reasoning is stupid. Loud people give you cancer? Perfume affects everyone's health?
Smoking does...
screw good law logic...how about common sense logic...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
"....smoking will be prohibited in wholly and substantially enclosed public places in Scotland, and it will be an offence to permit smoking or to smoke in no-smoking premises."
the Scottish Courts have decreed that that pubs, bars call it what you will are an "enclosed public space" as this is where the law states a non-smoking ban must be enforced.
An "enclosed public space" is a pub, bar, club, restaurant, taxi, office, library, etc etc
this is regardless of whether a company is private or public (in ownership)...
a bar is, by law, a "public place" and no matter how many riddling questions farfromglorified tries to subject me to... thats what the UK lawyers, MP's, solicitors, etc will agree to... i take their expert opinion over his
and even smokers agree its a good idea
"... New data from Ireland indicate that support among smokers
for a comprehensive ban rose after legislation was introduced.
Support among smokers before and after the ban rose from
43 to 67 per cent, from 45 to 77 per cent and from 13 to 46 per
cent for bans in workplaces, restaurants and pubs, respectively.
After the ban was implemented, 83 per cent of Irish smokers
also said that the legislation was a ‘good’ or ‘very good’ thing."
Are these same non-smokers smarter or better than smokers?
I would argue yes, they have connected the balls to the brains of it all and kicked the habit.
2007....still smoking? It's time to quit.
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Same reason I don't trust people who don't drink. Nobody doesn't drink for no reason, if they say there's no reason, they're lying.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
What about talking to others in the car? Same thing.
I'm not saying smoking ISN'T a distraction... but so are quite a few other things... and it probably isn't to quite a few people. If you don't smoke how would you know?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
As a smoker, I too don't like others smoking around me when I'm eating so I certainly don't do it, even if someone says it's ok. Not all smokers are the same ya know :rolleyes:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Are you speaking from experience? Have you ever quit smoking for more than 6 months?
Jealousy is not it... smoking is a curse. They put ammonia in cigarettes to make the nicotine effect like a crack hit, and just for that reason alone.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")