It can easily be argued that there are many people who would prefer a non smoking establishment to a smoking establishment regardless of their proximity to each other.
I meant that your bar may loose customers because they can't smoke there.
God I can’t believe how many people are so crazy about people not smoking in a bar. Dude it’s a Bar. You people are insane. If someone smoked at my gym I'd have a problem with it. If someone wanted to work out at a bar I guess I wouldn't really have a problem it would be pretty funny actually but it would still be odd. I just don't get it. Why is everyone trippin on a little smoke at a bar? If you don’t want to inhale second hand smoke go to a library.
Why do people think that bars and smoking go hand in hand, A bar is for drinking in not smoking.
Astoria 20/04/06, Leeds 25/08/06, Prague 22/09/06, Wembley 18/06/07,
Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.
If you don’t want to inhale second hand smoke go to a library.
but i want a drink and put some songs on a jukebox...
if i came into your local bar and covered myself in human shit and then sat next to you... then you'd get the owner to throw me out.... why? cos i smell!!!
welcome to my world... throw out the smokers!! good enough for them
i'm so glad Scotland has this law.... its frickin awesome
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
the government is tasked with looking after the common good of the public... all private business is interfered with to some extent
by your rationale i should be allowed to sell a deranged mental patient with a nazi slogan tattooed on his head a machine gun (if i owned a gun store)... but government 'interference' has made it so that when i check up on this guy it comes up on a computer screen
"do not sell the mad fucker a gun"
but if we go your route then why cant i sell it to him? and maybe throw in some free grenades for him as well!!
No there is a difference. I didn't state there should zero government interferance. obviously selling a gun to a derahged lunatic is something we should prohibit because of publix safety but smoking in bars is not public safety. You don't like to sit in a smokey bar go to one where smoking is prohibited. It's pretty damn simple. I could sit in a bar all day puffing away one cigerette after the other and still would not kill anyone. A derahged lunatic can walk into a gun shop buy a gun and kill multiple people in that one day. Just look at Virginia Tech for example.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Oh god, I hate the way this always turns into a business owners rights vs consumers rights :rolleyes:
Fact is, we've had it here for a few years now and it's great. I'm a smoker and its actually much more sociable to go outside cos you get to meet more people, it's like speed dating . I also like how I, as a smoker, don't go home stinking of smoke.
AND the only reason bar owners here lost customers was cos they kept putting the prices of drink up :rolleyes: and then blamed the smoking ban.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
No there is a difference. I didn't state there should zero government interferance. obviously selling a gun to a derahged lunatic is something we should prohibit because of publix safety but smoking in bars is not public safety. You don't like to sit in a smokey bar go to one where smoking is prohibited. It's pretty damn simple. I could sit in a bar all day puffing away one cigerette after the other and still would not kill anyone. A derahged lunatic can walk into a gun shop buy a gun and kill multiple people in that one day. Just look at Virginia Tech for example.
It's really not that simple, I don't know of one single bar in my area where they have a no smoking ban. Therefore if I want to go out with my friends I have to go somewhere people are smoking.
Bring on the 1st of July when the ban in England will begin.
Astoria 20/04/06, Leeds 25/08/06, Prague 22/09/06, Wembley 18/06/07,
Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.
but i want a drink and put some songs on a jukebox...
if i came into your local bar and covered myself in human shit and then sat next to you... then you'd get the owner to throw me out.... why? cos i smell!!!
welcome to my world... throw out the smokers!! good enough for them
i'm so glad Scotland has this law.... its frickin awesome
Sounds like you've left the issue up to the bar owner in your shit story. That sounds like a perfectly reasonable and rational way to approach the situation.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I've said it many times. Smokers are the most selfish fuckers on the face of the earth. If you want to poison yourselves go ahead, but do it in private, don't fuck up the rest of us because you think you have some god-given right to smoke.
The laws are enacted to protect not only the customers, but the barstaff as well. If you think you stink and feel like shit after spending an hour or two in a smoke filled room, how would you feel after spending 40 hours a week there? Once a bar owner loses a long-term employee to lung cancer, Im sure they will be happy to stop smoking. All businesses are forced to follow various government laws to protect the staff and customers, why should bars be any different?
We've had smoke-free bars for several years where I live and it hasn't hurt their business a bit. The bars seem to be even more lively and packed because people who don't like smoke aren't afraid to come out anymore. And now the smokers get a nice place to socialize with their disgusting friends. The sidewalk! lol
"Science has proof without certainty... Religion has certainty without proof"
-Ashley Montagu
It's really not that simple, I don't know of one single bar in my area where they have a no smoking ban. Therefore if I want to go out with my friends I have to go somewhere people are smoking.
Bring on the 1st of July when the ban in England will begin.
Well that's your country. There where several bars in my area that where smoking was prohibited prior to the ban taking effect.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Sounds like you've left the issue up to the bar owner in your shit story. That sounds like a perfectly reasonable and rational way to approach the situation.
second hand smoke kills
stinking of shit doesnt
i was pointing out the hypocracy of the statement... people who smoke would try and get me thrown out cos i stink of shit, but smoke is killing people in that very pub... and this is why the government bans smoking and not stinking of shit... which quite rightly gets left to the managers discretion
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
but i want a drink and put some songs on a jukebox...
if i came into your local bar and covered myself in human shit and then sat next to you... then you'd get the owner to throw me out.... why? cos i smell!!!
welcome to my world... throw out the smokers!! good enough for them
i'm so glad Scotland has this law.... its frickin awesome
Now we're talking...we got a guy working out at the bar, a guy covered in shit, and a bunch of smokers. This is one crazy bar!
I've said it many times. Smokers are the most selfish fuckers on the face of the earth. If you want to poison yourselves go ahead, but do it in private, don't fuck up the rest of us because you think you have some god-given right to smoke.
The laws are enacted to protect not only the customers, but the barstaff as well. If you think you stink and feel like shit after spending an hour or two in a smoke filled room, how would you feel after spending 40 hours a week there? Once a bar owner loses a long-term employee to lung cancer, Im sure they will be happy to stop smoking. All businesses are forced to follow various government laws to protect the staff and customers, why should bars be any different?
We've had smoke-free bars for several years where I live and it hasn't hurt their business a bit. The bars seem to be even more lively and packed because people who don't like smoke aren't afraid to come out anymore. And now the smokers get a nice place to socialize with their disgusting friends. The sidewalk! lol
Way to generalize.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Either way you slice the issue, if you are putting up the money to build a bar and want smoking in it. You should be allowed to have that option. Just as the staff and patrons will have the option to work and drink there. Don't like the smoke, just move on down the line.
Like Scotland and Northern Ireland, we in the Republic have a ban on smoking in the workplace, ie; pubs and restaurants. The ban has been in about 2 years now and like Dunkman said about Scotland it's been a big success. Even smokers think so. Everyone here was pissed off at the idea of being told by the government what to do aswell, but it was, as someone else pointed out for the common good of mainly the employees but in turn the customers. I much prefer to go out now and not stink of smoke the next day, and not be inhaling second hand smoke. Now I'm not quite sure what the situation is certain states of the US, but is it really that big a deal to not smoke in a pub or restaurant? Why should non-smokers who not only work in these establishments but frequent them have to suffer people smoking in their faces? Why get so worked up about it if you don't mind going outside to have a smoke? Just get over it, people here have.
I've said it many times. Smokers are the most selfish fuckers on the face of the earth. If you want to poison yourselves go ahead, but do it in private, don't fuck up the rest of us because you think you have some god-given right to smoke.
The laws are enacted to protect not only the customers, but the barstaff as well. If you think you stink and feel like shit after spending an hour or two in a smoke filled room, how would you feel after spending 40 hours a week there? Once a bar owner loses a long-term employee to lung cancer, Im sure they will be happy to stop smoking. All businesses are forced to follow various government laws to protect the staff and customers, why should bars be any different?
We've had smoke-free bars for several years where I live and it hasn't hurt their business a bit. The bars seem to be even more lively and packed because people who don't like smoke aren't afraid to come out anymore. And now the smokers get a nice place to socialize with their disgusting friends. The sidewalk! lol
Yep and all Americans are wankers Oh no, sorry, it's just you
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Like Scotland and Northern Ireland, we in the Republic have a ban on smoking in the workplace, ie; pubs and restaurants. The ban has been in about 2 years now and like Dunkman said about Scotland it's been a big success. Even smokers think so. Everyone here was pissed off at the idea of being told by the government what to do aswell, but it was, as someone else pointed out for the common good of mainly the employees but in turn the customers. I much prefer to go out now and not stink of smoke the next day, and not be inhaling second hand smoke. Now I'm not quite sure what the situation is certain states of the US, but is it really that big a deal to not smoke in a pub or restaurant? Why should non-smokers who not only work in these establishments but frequent them have to suffer people smoking in their faces? Why get so worked up about it if you don't mind going outside to have a smoke? Just get over it, people here have.
the argument is not over the cigarettes, going out to smoke is not a big deal. the argument is over the government telling us where we can smoke and where we can't.
anyone considered these small steps (public places, bars, workplaces...) are going towards a complete ban of tobacco and rendering cigarettes illegal?
Salt Lake City recently has been trying to pass an act that you can't smoke cigarettes in a public park....bullshit.
7/2/06 - Denver, CO
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
i was pointing out the hypocracy of the statement... people who smoke would try and get me thrown out cos i stink of shit, but smoke is killing people in that very pub... and this is why the government bans smoking and not stinking of shit... which quite rightly gets left to the managers discretion
Obesity from a high-fat diet is a big killer. Why do we leave that up to a manager's discretion at McDonalds? Shouldn't the government mandate Big Mac sales?
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
It's not Americans it's just those whinny bitch ass non-smokers. Bunch of pussies they are if you ask me.
Your so right we should want to kill ourselves quicker what are thinking. I'm going to a packet right now.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
I am against the laws on principal, but am ok with it in practice if that makes any sense.
I am not a fan of governments dictating how a private business operates, but let's face it, they do A LOT. In most state laws against smoking, they are not creating a disadvantage to any individual bars, and quite honestly I enjoy going out and not coming home smelling like an ashtray.
There is a law that is being fought in Allegheny county (where Pittsburgh, PA is located) that bans smoking there for bars and restaurants, but not for the new casinos (slot licenses were passed last year). Not only are the local bars now at a competitive disadvantage against the casino bars, but on the edges of the counties a lot of bars are going to be hurt because right down the block in a surrounding county smoking would be allowed.
I just think that with the health care issues and ridiculous expense that smoking causes, it is in our best interest as a country to help reduce that expense that we all have to pay for.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Obesity from a high-fat diet is a big killer. Why do we leave that up to a manager's discretion at McDonalds? Shouldn't the government mandate Big Mac sales?
that's a bad analogy. dunkman is speaking of second hand smoke while your speaking of voluntary bigmac eating.
Either way you slice the issue, if you are putting up the money to build a bar and want smoking in it. You should be allowed to have that option. Just as the staff and patrons will have the option to work and drink there. Don't like the smoke, just move on down the line.
That's such a dumb comment to make. If you want customers and employees, which you probably need to run the place, then it's a public place, open to the public, and just because you don't smoke doesn't mean you should have to 'move on down the line'. Isn't that just a tad discriminatory. Why are some smokers so blinkered about this?
the argument is not over the cigarettes, going out to smoke is not a big deal. the argument is over the government telling us where we can smoke and where we can't.
anyone considered these small steps (public places, bars, workplaces...) are going towards a complete ban of tobacco and rendering cigarettes illegal?
Personally, I'd be all for making cigarettes illegal. It's a pointless waste of time and money (although it can be argued it's a great money maker for businesses and the economy and that it's one's own choice to waste their time and money...but I choose to look past that) no matter how good it supposedly makes you feel or how relaxed you become from it. Not to mention the health consequences. Talk about paying to slowly kill yourself, it just doesn't make sense to me.
But really, if they were illegal, would they really go away? I mean, people wouldn't have to deal with the everyday occurence of walking into a puff of smoke cloud because people wouldn't be doing it out in the open; they'd just find places to do it like all the other illegal substances. Which would kind of be nice from the perspective of those who would enjoy being able to go outside and not have to deal with smokers.
If only the King of England way back in the day would've went with his gut instinct and outlawed this habit instead of going with his pocketbook instinct.
With that said, nearly everyone in my family smokes.
Just as the staff and patrons will have the option to work and drink there. Don't like the smoke, just move on down the line.
You're so right. Just like if I worked in a mine let's say, and my bosses didn't want to install special equipment to prevent mines collapsing, that's fine, I should just leave the mine business. Or if I'm a nurse and I don't want to use a new syringe for each injection, I shouldn't be forced to. And if you don't like it, you don't have to get that tetenus shot.
"Science has proof without certainty... Religion has certainty without proof"
-Ashley Montagu
I can definitely understand the need to smoke in a bar for I have friends who smoke and its gonna suck for them in 2008 here, BUT.. I'm a non smoker and would prefer no smoking, since it only dries out my eyes, gives me second hand smoke and makes my jacket and clothes smell like shit, so I will silently vote in favor of non-smoking bars.
Comments
Why do people think that bars and smoking go hand in hand, A bar is for drinking in not smoking.
Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.
Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
but i want a drink and put some songs on a jukebox...
if i came into your local bar and covered myself in human shit and then sat next to you... then you'd get the owner to throw me out.... why? cos i smell!!!
welcome to my world... throw out the smokers!! good enough for them
i'm so glad Scotland has this law.... its frickin awesome
No there is a difference. I didn't state there should zero government interferance. obviously selling a gun to a derahged lunatic is something we should prohibit because of publix safety but smoking in bars is not public safety. You don't like to sit in a smokey bar go to one where smoking is prohibited. It's pretty damn simple. I could sit in a bar all day puffing away one cigerette after the other and still would not kill anyone. A derahged lunatic can walk into a gun shop buy a gun and kill multiple people in that one day. Just look at Virginia Tech for example.
Fact is, we've had it here for a few years now and it's great. I'm a smoker and its actually much more sociable to go outside cos you get to meet more people, it's like speed dating
AND the only reason bar owners here lost customers was cos they kept putting the prices of drink up :rolleyes: and then blamed the smoking ban.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
It's really not that simple, I don't know of one single bar in my area where they have a no smoking ban. Therefore if I want to go out with my friends I have to go somewhere people are smoking.
Bring on the 1st of July when the ban in England will begin.
Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.
Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
Sounds like you've left the issue up to the bar owner in your shit story. That sounds like a perfectly reasonable and rational way to approach the situation.
The laws are enacted to protect not only the customers, but the barstaff as well. If you think you stink and feel like shit after spending an hour or two in a smoke filled room, how would you feel after spending 40 hours a week there? Once a bar owner loses a long-term employee to lung cancer, Im sure they will be happy to stop smoking. All businesses are forced to follow various government laws to protect the staff and customers, why should bars be any different?
We've had smoke-free bars for several years where I live and it hasn't hurt their business a bit. The bars seem to be even more lively and packed because people who don't like smoke aren't afraid to come out anymore. And now the smokers get a nice place to socialize with their disgusting friends. The sidewalk! lol
-Ashley Montagu
Perhaps there is a reason for that.
Well that's your country. There where several bars in my area that where smoking was prohibited prior to the ban taking effect.
second hand smoke kills
stinking of shit doesnt
i was pointing out the hypocracy of the statement... people who smoke would try and get me thrown out cos i stink of shit, but smoke is killing people in that very pub... and this is why the government bans smoking and not stinking of shit... which quite rightly gets left to the managers discretion
Now we're talking...we got a guy working out at the bar, a guy covered in shit, and a bunch of smokers. This is one crazy bar!
Way to generalize.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
It's not Americans it's just those whinny bitch ass non-smokers. Bunch of pussies they are if you ask me.
the argument is not over the cigarettes, going out to smoke is not a big deal. the argument is over the government telling us where we can smoke and where we can't.
anyone considered these small steps (public places, bars, workplaces...) are going towards a complete ban of tobacco and rendering cigarettes illegal?
I've been fighting the urge to say that. This fuckin thread makes me want to start smoking again.
6/12/08 - Tampa, FL
8/23/09 - Chicago, IL
9/28/09 - Salt Lake City, UT (11 years too long!!!)
9/03/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 1
9/04/11 - East Troy, WI - PJ20 - Night 2
Obesity from a high-fat diet is a big killer. Why do we leave that up to a manager's discretion at McDonalds? Shouldn't the government mandate Big Mac sales?
Your so right we should want to kill ourselves quicker what are thinking. I'm going to a packet right now.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
I am not a fan of governments dictating how a private business operates, but let's face it, they do A LOT. In most state laws against smoking, they are not creating a disadvantage to any individual bars, and quite honestly I enjoy going out and not coming home smelling like an ashtray.
There is a law that is being fought in Allegheny county (where Pittsburgh, PA is located) that bans smoking there for bars and restaurants, but not for the new casinos (slot licenses were passed last year). Not only are the local bars now at a competitive disadvantage against the casino bars, but on the edges of the counties a lot of bars are going to be hurt because right down the block in a surrounding county smoking would be allowed.
I just think that with the health care issues and ridiculous expense that smoking causes, it is in our best interest as a country to help reduce that expense that we all have to pay for.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
that's a bad analogy. dunkman is speaking of second hand smoke while your speaking of voluntary bigmac eating.
I was making a stupid generalization to counter Mookies stupid generalization.
Personally, I'd be all for making cigarettes illegal. It's a pointless waste of time and money (although it can be argued it's a great money maker for businesses and the economy and that it's one's own choice to waste their time and money...but I choose to look past that) no matter how good it supposedly makes you feel or how relaxed you become from it. Not to mention the health consequences. Talk about paying to slowly kill yourself, it just doesn't make sense to me.
But really, if they were illegal, would they really go away? I mean, people wouldn't have to deal with the everyday occurence of walking into a puff of smoke cloud because people wouldn't be doing it out in the open; they'd just find places to do it like all the other illegal substances. Which would kind of be nice from the perspective of those who would enjoy being able to go outside and not have to deal with smokers.
If only the King of England way back in the day would've went with his gut instinct and outlawed this habit instead of going with his pocketbook instinct.
With that said, nearly everyone in my family smokes.
Was anyone in the there under duress? I'm betting there is a lot of voluntary patronage and employment by choice going on.
You're so right. Just like if I worked in a mine let's say, and my bosses didn't want to install special equipment to prevent mines collapsing, that's fine, I should just leave the mine business. Or if I'm a nurse and I don't want to use a new syringe for each injection, I shouldn't be forced to. And if you don't like it, you don't have to get that tetenus shot.
-Ashley Montagu