No Smoking in Bars.....

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  • martina78
    martina78 Posts: 29
    As a non-smoker, I do to an extent understand how addictive cigarettes are. My husband was a smoker, and both my parents, and my brother still does. What I have the trouble with understanding is what is the big deal with just going outside? In most of the pubs here they have now semi-enclosed areas where smokers go, and most are fine with it. As for the argument as to whether pubs are public or private spaces, because they are privately owned, planes are owned by airlines and you're not allowed smoke, as are buses.
    Jesus, I never thought I'd see the day when I viewed Ireland as being ahead of the game and progressive in some areas!
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    dunkman/jlew24asu wrote:
    1. it has to apply for a licence to serve the public

    So we're going to justify public control of private property by past public control of private property? Fine. That's known as precedent, and is a fine legal argument. However, precedent is not a moral argument nor is it a rights argument. Precedent cannot determine for you whether or not something is public or private property. Only the the original morality of that decision (that is about to be repeated here) determines that.
    2. it serves the general public

    So does your labor. Should the public be able to tell you what job to hold?

    Bars, like any enterprise, serve at their discretion.
    3. the name "pub" is an abbreviation of the phrase "public bar"

    Great! We're talking about "bars". That word comes from a piece of property, typically belonging to someone that is not you, on which you put your beer.
    the only thing private about is the ownership.. and even then some larger 'chain style' pubs are PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANIES!!

    The only thing??? The only thing private about your body is your ownership of it. The only thing private about anything is a specific person or group's ownership of it. That's the definition of private. And the "large chain style" pubs are still private in the sense that distinct individuals own shares that they purchased with their property. When's the last time someone just gave you some IBM stock just because it is a PUBLIC LIMITED COMPANY?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    good points ffg
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I think it would be best to let the bar decide. but by doing that, very few bars would ban smoking and we would be back to square one. its a tough call.

    bottom line is, smoking does kill those who smoke and those exposed to smoke indirectly. its almost similar to the trans fat debate.
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I think it would be best to let the bar decide. but by doing that, very few bars would ban smoking and we would be back to square one. its a tough call.

    bottom line is, smoking does kill those who smoke and those exposed to smoke indirectly. its almost similar to the trans fat debate.

    I wouldn't have a problem with offering an incentive such as discounting the license for bars that wish to go non-smoking. This would allow a choice for the business owner and the customer. It would also prove that it is truly about public health rather than government control.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    zstillings wrote:
    I wouldn't have a problem with offering an incentive such as discounting the license for bars that wish to go non-smoking. This would allow a choice for the business owner and the customer. It would also prove that it is truly about public health rather than government control.


    I agree. but no incentive can account for the potential loss in business that a bar, or say night club, would take by banning smoking. maybe i'm wrong I dont know. I dont know if there really has been a study showing the loss of revenue, so I could just be talking out of my ass :)
  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I agree. but no incentive can account for the potential loss in business that a bar, or say night club, would take by banning smoking. maybe i'm wrong I dont know. I dont know if there really has been a study showing the loss of revenue, so I could just be talking out of my ass :)

    I honestly don't know either. I have been in bars that are non-smoking in places where a choice is still allowed and they didn't seem to be suffering. That could have been a perception though rather than a rule. If the license is slightly discounted, they could provide incentives for non-smokers to drag their friends into their bars. More creativity would be allowed in marketing if people were free to decide things for themselves.
  • _Crazy_Mary_
    _Crazy_Mary_ Posts: 1,299
    I work in a bar in California, where there is already a smoking ban. People on the patio are allowed to smoke and honestly I get the best tips from the smokers because they love that I go get their drinks for them and they can keep smoking. As much as I dislike the govt. flexing its power over us, I love the no-smoke law because I don't smoke.
    Last year when I waited on Ed Asner he lit up a cigarette in the restaurant after all the other customers left and when I asked him to put it out, he tried to give me the "don't you know who I am?" bullshit and I just replied with, "You're one of the pinkos that put this law into effect." :rolleyes: They only tipped 20% !
    I really screwed that up. I really Schruted it.
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    Smokers are some selfish fucking people man... they think they can toss their butts on the ground or out the car window like they are exempt from littering laws? and they have no repsect for others near them, they light it right up in your face, while your eating, etc. fucking disgusting. it is banned in my state, so when a few of us go out to dinner there is always one impatient person in the group that cant wait for a cigarette, they always have to go outside before the food gets there. they come back stinking like shit, and not to mwntion the fact that it is totally rude to leave your table/group to go have a smoke. its like they cant wait or they will die withiout it? doesnt anyone have common respect and manners anymore? just fucking sit there and have a good time, laugh and joke with your company, and then smoke afterwards? is that so hard? now i like to have a smoke once in a great while if i am drinking, but i try to be respectful about it at least.

    Attention smokers: The world is not your ashtray. Thank You.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    martina78 wrote:
    That's such a dumb comment to make. If you want customers and employees, which you probably need to run the place, then it's a public place, open to the public, and just because you don't smoke doesn't mean you should have to 'move on down the line'. Isn't that just a tad discriminatory. Why are some smokers so blinkered about this?

    I don't even smoke! So why should somebody who smokes legal ciggies be put out by not being allowed to smoke in a "public" place. If it is a health issue have the gov't stop making legal smokes. If not? Give the smokers a place to go that people like you don't have to be in and don't gripe like you are missing out on not getting your clothes stinky or your health is at risk. Sounds pretty easy, eh.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • martina78
    martina78 Posts: 29
    even flow? wrote:
    I don't even smoke! So why should somebody who smokes legal ciggies be put out by not being allowed to smoke in a "public" place. If it is a health issue have the gov't stop making legal smokes. If not? Give the smokers a place to go that people like you don't have to be in and don't gripe like you are missing out on not getting your clothes stinky or your health is at risk. Sounds pretty easy, eh.
    Oh my god! Can you just imagine listen to the smokers whinge about that! Look I just don't see what the big deal is. Jesus is that difficult to just go outside? I mean why should non-smokers have to be the ones who go somewhere else, we are not the ones with the potential carcinogenic.
    I try to look after myself, I try to get some exercise and eat the right things and I don't see why I should have to suffer other peoples smoke. Like I said, here in Ireland most pubs have an enclosure where the smokers go, so yeah it is pretty easy! We can all go to the same place and smokers can smoke and I can sit and not breathe in smoke.Simple.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    martina78 wrote:
    Oh my god! Can you just imagine listen to the smokers whinge about that! Look I just don't see what the big deal is. Jesus is that difficult to just go outside? I mean why should non-smokers have to be the ones who go somewhere else, we are not the ones with the potential carcinogenic.
    I try to look after myself, I try to get some exercise and eat the right things and I don't see why I should have to suffer other peoples smoke. Like I said, here in Ireland most pubs have an enclosure where the smokers go, so yeah it is pretty easy! We can all go to the same place and smokers can smoke and I can sit and not breathe in smoke.Simple.

    I'm a smoker, and I agree with you.
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  • floyd1975
    floyd1975 Posts: 1,350
    I hope they ban perfume and cologne next.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    _Crazy_Mary_ wrote:
    I work in a bar in California, where there is already a smoking ban. People on the patio are allowed to smoke and honestly I get the best tips from the smokers because they love that I go get their drinks for them and they can keep smoking. As much as I dislike the govt. flexing its power over us, I love the no-smoke law because I don't smoke.
    Last year when I waited on Ed Asner he lit up a cigarette in the restaurant after all the other customers left and when I asked him to put it out, he tried to give me the "don't you know who I am?" bullshit and I just replied with, "You're one of the pinkos that put this law into effect." :rolleyes: They only tipped 20% !

    Ed Asner is still alive?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    zstillings wrote:
    I hope they ban perfume and cologne next.

    I was on the bus once, the city bus just this past year or so, and there was a woman that just wreaked of perfume. It permeated the bus. It was sickening, it gave me a headache and made my eyes water.

    I wanted to kill her.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Derrick
    Derrick Posts: 475
    zstillings wrote:
    Was there a law before that forced them to allow smoking? That would be terrible too.

    The law previously was that they had to have a minimum of 50% of their seats designated as non-smoking with no ashtray available. Then they went through a phase where smoking sections were closed off in separate rooms with a door that swung shut when people weren't walking through it.

    Some businesses (Tim Horton's Donuts) did have enough power/marketshare to let some of their franchises go smoke-free before the ban...but they would be popular no matter what restriction.

    But now it is such that anything work-related cannot involve smoking.
    - Rental Cars, or any work vehicle
    - any office building, private or public sector.
    - any enclosed space really...where it was not a person's home.

    For a while, restaurants would "enclose" a patio with plastic sheets, and put heaters out there for the winter, but this was in violation as well. I think some groups are trying to get smoking back into casinos and such.

    Oddly enough, if you go to a restaurant or bingo hall on a Native Reserve, they allow smoking.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    martina78 wrote:
    Oh my god! Can you just imagine listen to the smokers whinge about that! Look I just don't see what the big deal is. Jesus is that difficult to just go outside? I mean why should non-smokers have to be the ones who go somewhere else, we are not the ones with the potential carcinogenic.
    I try to look after myself, I try to get some exercise and eat the right things and I don't see why I should have to suffer other peoples smoke. Like I said, here in Ireland most pubs have an enclosure where the smokers go, so yeah it is pretty easy! We can all go to the same place and smokers can smoke and I can sit and not breathe in smoke.Simple.


    So explain to me why you can't smoke on an outdoor patio at the bar. Those with the smoke free lungs can't handle it outside either? Silly rule if you ask me. If the gov't is making huge bucks on making death sticks, people should be able to use them where they want. Bottom line from me.

    And yes to smoke filled bars without people complaining about it.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Derrick
    Derrick Posts: 475
    gue_barium wrote:
    I was on the bus once, the city bus just this past year or so, and there was a woman that just wreaked of perfume. It permeated the bus. It was sickening, it gave me a headache and made my eyes water.

    I wanted to kill her.

    These are the times when it would be cool to be able to fart on demand.

    I kid I kid. And yes this is stupid. Some people cake that shit on so it will last the whole day. My company has a perfume policy in the office and a general smell policy (thank god). If you reek of perfume you are asked to wash some of it off or go home for the day. As well, if you stink of BO, HR will give you a mini-deodorant stick to use or will send you home for the day. They also will then make you attend a session on proper business etiquette in terms of attire and personal presentation. This is actually very helpful for some of the landed immigrant workers or even the development/tech guys.
  • martina78
    martina78 Posts: 29
    gue_barium wrote:
    I was on the bus once, the city bus just this past year or so, and there was a woman that just wreaked of perfume. It permeated the bus. It was sickening, it gave me a headache and made my eyes water.

    I wanted to kill her.
    Thats funny! Btw who's Ed Asner? Hope I'm not being thick, but I presume he's American?!
  • Derrick
    Derrick Posts: 475
    even flow? wrote:
    So explain to me why you can't smoke on an outdoor patio at the bar. Those with the smoke free lungs can't handle it outside either? Silly rule if you ask me. If the gov't is making huge bucks on making death sticks, people should be able to use them where they want. Bottom line from me.

    And yes to smoke filled bars without people complaining about it.

    As much as I dislike smoking/smokers, I personally don't have a problem with patio smoking at restaurants.

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