No Smoking in Bars.....
jlew24asu
Posts: 10,118
seems that sooner or later this will be a law enacted across the country. how do people feel about his? is it this a freedom issue? health issue?
other boards have long debates about this. I tend to smoke when I drink so its kinda tough to not be able to at a bar. but I very much encourage this law for the simple fact that second hand smoke does kill. but this is also another thing the government is telling us we cant do. and thoughts?
other boards have long debates about this. I tend to smoke when I drink so its kinda tough to not be able to at a bar. but I very much encourage this law for the simple fact that second hand smoke does kill. but this is also another thing the government is telling us we cant do. and thoughts?
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true. definitely private.
I would agree.
Nearly all the bars and restaurants in my town are non-smoking by choice, not by government fiat. When I smoked, this didn't bug me in the least bit. The forced ban, however, does.
forced anything does suck, but would this be one of the "greater good" laws?
By the way -- has Chicago done this yet? They were trying to when I moved out and I remember it just barely failed. Have they taken another shot at it yet?
chicago did pass the law. but it is voluntary until 2008. so as of now, most bars still allow smoking. come 2008 though, none will.
Yeah, it sounds wierd here in the Tabacco state. They actually just tried a state-wide ban here a month ago and it just barely failed in the state senate.
It all depends on what you mean by the relatively meaningless term "greater good". Certainly these laws could have positive effects on health, but they have negative effects on freedoms and property rights. How would you feel about a law that forced people to smoke? Or forced bar owners who didn't like smokers to allow smoking?
What about people who are forced to inhale other peoples second hand smoke, what about their freedom rights.
Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.
Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
key word here is force. but here the law is forcing you to do something harmful, where the other side is forcing you to do something that protects people from very harmful smoke.
they are free to leave the bar at any time.
That's simple don't work or frequent establishments that allow smoking.
The proper way to go about this is to offer business owners an insentive to voluntarily prohibit smoking in their establishments.
overwhelming success... even smokers attest to that fact.
and waking up the next day is much better as i dont feel my eyes hurting, my clothes dont have the stench of death and when i go in the shower i dont have to worry about the smell of smoke coming out of my hair..
Ireland, Scotland, Wales have all implemented it and all with huge success... England will be next on July 1st and hopefully they will embrace it
just as a smoker is free to leave the bar and have a smoke outside
I'm a smoker and I like being able to go into a bar or resteruant and not having to smell like an ash tray when I leave, but I don't think it is right for government to force this up businesses. It should be up to the business owner to make that decision and if the government wants to reward those that do, some tyoe of tax break, that is even better.
Yeah true, but why should I have to. I have asthma and sometimes in a really smokey room I have difficulty breathing. I understand that smokers have a right to smoke and that is not being taken away from them, is it really that much hard work to step outside for a few mins?
Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.
Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
that's discriminatory... it means people who value their health cant work in a bar.
whats so fucking hard about walking 10 yards to a designated smoking area to have a cig... lazy fuckers!!
yea but a smoker, typically, wouldnt go out of his/her way, to prevent other people from inhaling their smoke unless forced.
Well said
Dusseldorf 21/06/07, Manchester 17/08/09, London 18/08/09, LA 06/10/09, LA 07/10/09.
Ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
It's not about smokers rights it's about business owners rights. The law doesn't prohibit me from smoking but it prohibits the business owner from running his establishment without undue government intervention.
Exactly! I quit smoking a few years ago but if I'm at a bar much like going to a ROCK concert I don't mind if people smoke. You go to a bar to unwind, have fun for a few hours and forget about life for a while.
In my opinion this issue highlights some major hypocrisy in our society as well. So adults are being told what to do in a bar, yet we force feed our children soda's, chicken nuggets, pizza, candy, and all other kinds of crap that will inevitably alter their eating habits and their health for the rest of their lives in public schools around the country but as long as they don't smoke that’s ok.
i dont give a fuck about business owners rights... i care about mine, and my right is to sit somewhere in a bar and not have someone blowing smoke into my lungs.
the day business owners give a fuck about their staffs rights is the day i'll listen to that argument..
Like I stated this arguement has nothing to do with smokers rights. that is where people are confused. The laws do not prohibit me from having a cigerette but it does infringe on a business owners rights to run his shop with undue government interference. The decision should be up to the owner, not the government. As the government if you want to pursuade owners to prohibit smoking offer them some insentive and I'm sure many will take it and voluntarily prohibit smoking.
It can always be argued you're free to go out and find a non somking bar on your own. If you don't want to second hand smoke don't give money to bars who let that happen.
On the other side though, I like this law. The more it goes the more lethal cigarettes seem to be. The state already forces bar to not let you use heroin, cocaine, crack... and it doesn't seem to bother anyone. So why not add another very dangerous drug?
I'm a smoker, and I know it's extremly harmful, but I do enjoy smoking while having a drink. The exact same law has been voted here and will effect in 2008. I used to agree with the ffg argument, but a bartender made me change my mind : he told me he was a non smoker but let people smoke in his bar because (here at least) a vast majority of the clients smoke while drinking (some don't even smoke the rest of the time, just when they go out) so if he should choose to ban smoking on his own he would loose most of his clients. That law means a great deal to him.
Well that is your choice and opinion but I shouldn't have to live under the yoke of your choices and opinions.
I'm also pretty damn sure you would give a fuck about business owners right if one day you own a business and the government comes in and tells you how to run it.
if you think they have a right to smoke then you shouldnt want a law forced them not to do so.
absolutely not, it would be great if everyone were considerate people.
Well the difference is that heroin, cocaine, and crack are illegal substances, cigerettes are not.
exactly my point, the law forbids you to use those drugs hence stomping your personal freedom. I don't see the difference between the state not allowing you to use coke in your living room and the state not allowing you to smoke a cigarette in a bar.
i drive a car... the government tells me i have to wear a seatbelt... why should I? oh thats right... its for the common good... its sensible
and how are they tellign you how to run it? they are imposing a condition upon you just as they impose condition on pharmacies, vet practices, car garages, bookmakers, restaurants, hotels, etc
bars are no different and no more special
Well I don't the think the state should have the right to prohibit me from using drugs, but we do have laws in place that state that those substances are illegal and cigerettes are not. Because of that distinction you really can't compare the two.
i don't mind banning smoking at restaurants. for as long as i've been a smoker, not once did i go out to eat and think to myself immediately after the meal "fuck, i need a cig right now". i've always been able to wait until i left.
what i'm having a problem with is this banning smoking at outdoor events. not once have i seen someone complain at an outdoor event about too much smoke. but it's coming. they've already banned tobacco sales at the nys fair, and within a couple years they're going to phase in designated outdoor smoking areas. i've seen these areas at other parks before. tiny roped off section, hidden in the corner of the park where you're not in anyone else's eyesight.
~Michael Bolton