the argument is not over the cigarettes, going out to smoke is not a big deal. the argument is over the government telling us where we can smoke and where we can't.
anyone considered these small steps (public places, bars, workplaces...) are going towards a complete ban of tobacco and rendering cigarettes illegal?
Well in New Jersey they are no trying ban smoking in your car. In San Fran they are trying to ban smoking in your home. Where does the government interference end.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Well in New Jersey they are no trying ban smoking in your car. In San Fran they are trying to ban smoking in your home. Where does the government interference end.
I would think thats a smart idea to not smoke in your car. It is only a distraction. Same with cell phones.
That's such a dumb comment to make. If you want customers and employees, which you probably need to run the place, then it's a public place, open to the public, and just because you don't smoke doesn't mean you should have to 'move on down the line'. Isn't that just a tad discriminatory. Why are some smokers so blinkered about this?
I'm not a smoker, but I am a business owner.
Maybe it is cultural or semantics, but a private business is by definition not a public business. It is open to people who chose to work or patronize the business, but it is privately owned and operated. Accessible to the public does not change the ownership structure of the establishment.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
the argument is not over the cigarettes, going out to smoke is not a big deal. the argument is over the government telling us where we can smoke and where we can't.
anyone considered these small steps (public places, bars, workplaces...) are going towards a complete ban of tobacco and rendering cigarettes illegal?
That's no going to happen. If it works there like it does here the government are not going to ban tobacco products because they make too much fucking money out of the sales of cigarettes through massive taxes. Can you not for one second consider a non-smokers right to not have to inhale second hand smoke? Why get so bogged down in the idea of being told what to do? There are some arguments in favour of the government interfering in our day to day lives.
Well in New Jersey they are no trying ban smoking in your car. In San Fran they are trying to ban smoking in your home. Where does the government interference end.
Govt interference in the People's Republic of San Francisco?? You don't say..
Ever have a csreaming kid in the back seat of your car? Should we ban them.
Yes. Yes we should.
But seriously, what is a typical long car ride, an hour? You're telling me people can't go an hour without smoking??? Thats just one less hazard. I think its a worthy proposal.. I don't agree with banning in your own home though.
But seriously, what is a typical long car ride, an hour? You're telling me people can't go an hour without smoking??? Thats just one less hazard. I think its a worthy proposal.. I don't agree with banning in your own home though.
Ok what about changing the radio station. That can be a distraction should we ban radios in cars. Smoking a cigeratte while driving is no more a distaction that changing the radio station.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Ok what about changing the radio station. That can be a distraction should we ban radios in cars. Smoking a cigeratte while driving is no more a distaction that changing the radio station.
What if you drop the cig in your lap and start a fire? I would think smoking is more of a distraction than changing the radio, but I'm going to stop argueing because I'm guessing you are a smoker. Just a hunch.
You're so right. Just like if I worked in a mine let's say, and my bosses didn't want to install special equipment to prevent mines collapsing, that's fine, I should just leave the mine business. Or if I'm a nurse and I don't want to use a new syringe for each injection, I shouldn't be forced to. And if you don't like it, you don't have to get that tetenus shot.
Totally agree with you. Yeah why bother with health and safety laws at all? Lets all drink and drive, people shouldn't get in our way anyway! Let's go smoke in their faces too, they can just move!
There are many things found in bars which aren't healthy. Cigarettes, alcohol, greasy hamburgers & fries, people with STDs, etc...
I'm sorry I must be a bit slow but I still don't see how voluntary consumption of alcohol, grease or people with std's is comparable with second hand smoke?
That's no going to happen. If it works there like it does here the government are not going to ban tobacco products because they make too much fucking money out of the sales of cigarettes through massive taxes. Can you not for one second consider a non-smokers right to not have to inhale second hand smoke? Why get so bogged down in the idea of being told what to do? There are some arguments in favour of the government interfering in our day to day lives.
meh, I don't really mind a law on this issue, and at least it will get non smokers to finally shut up, some of them can be as annoying a smelly jacket.
as for banning tobacco, I thought the same about taxes, but every time the price goes up some people stop smoking. Obviously the goal of the government isn't to keep people addicted.
All of my friends who are smokers would agree with me in that they are slaves to the tobacco industry and wish they had never started smoking. I would think any law that would force them to cut back would be appreciated.
I would agree with this, but some have made a good argument that a bar is a public place. I still havent fully decided this.
Yeah they do..I just know that where I live we have a law that says no smoking in a restaurant. Bars you can. But some bars serve food.
My point is...my friends and I make the choice to go to the bars that serve food...so we would also make the choice to frequent bars that didn't allow smoking also. I'm a big fan of giving people a choice in life.
All of my friends who are smokers would agree with me in that they are slaves to the tobacco industry and wish they had never started smoking. I would think any law that would force them to cut back would be appreciated.
I certainly agree. not many smokers like smoking or do it because they enjoy slowly killing themselves. what the non smokers dont really understand is how addictive those fucking things are. and the urge to smoke is 10 fold while drinking (for a smoker). but the point is, hopefully many will take this as an opportunity to quit.
I would agree with this, but some have made a good argument that a bar is a public place. I still havent fully decided this.
To say that a bar is a "public place" is to say that everyone has a right to the property in that bar. Tell me, do you think you should be able to walk into a bar, grab a glass, and drink your fill? Is that your right?
Where I live smoking has been banned in all work environments for a long time (over 7 years). It's a health and liability issue due to the potential dangers of long term exposure to second hand smoke. And it's about equal access to jobs. So, say your goal is to be a waitress or bartender...you should have access to all wait/bartend jobs without the fear of being subjected to second hand smoke.
As a customer, I fucking hated smokers. I would dread going to restaurants I really enjoyed because the air would always smell like shit. Under the old system of smoking section and non-smoking section, it was just bad. If I wanted to eat beside a dump, I would eat beside a dump.
Since the smoking ban, restaurants in my city have sprung up like wildflower, and they are packed every night. The downtown bars/clubs have taken a bit of a hit, but the suburban bars and pubs (the ones planted near subdivisions outside of the central area of town) do amazing business. Packed every single night. The smoking ban has done amazing things for the local bar and restaurant scene.
To say that a bar is a "public place" is to say that everyone has a right to the property in that bar. Tell me, do you think you should be able to walk into a bar, grab a glass, and drink your fill? Is that your right?
I'm waiting for every bar in my town to send me a cut of their profits.
Where I live smoking has been banned in all work environments for a long time (over 7 years). It's a health and liability issue due to the potential dangers of long term exposure to second hand smoke. And it's about equal access to jobs. So, say your goal is to be a waitress or bartender...you should have access to all wait/bartend jobs without the fear of being subjected to second hand smoke.
As a customer, I fucking hated smokers. I would dread going to restaurants I really enjoyed because the air would always smell like shit. Under the old system of smoking section and non-smoking section, it was just bad. If I wanted to eat beside a dump, I would eat beside a dump.
Since the smoking ban, restaurants in my city have sprung up like wildflower, and they are packed every night. The downtown bars/clubs have taken a bit of a hit, but the suburban bars and pubs (the ones planted near subdivisions outside of the central area of town) do amazing business. Packed every single night. The smoking ban has done amazing things for the local bar and restaurant scene.
Was there a law before that forced them to allow smoking? That would be terrible too.
I'm sorry I must be a bit slow but I still don't see how voluntary consumption of alcohol, grease or people with std's is comparable with second hand smoke?
By walking into an establishment that allows smoking - a place where you know people will be lighting up - you're voluntarily inhaling second hand smoke (unless of course you were hogtied and carried in).
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
That's what I don't get. Before these laws..why were owners so chicken shit to say, "This is a no smoking establishment"?
Obviously it helps business.
I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but in some areas of the country this would be business suicide though.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
As far as i am concerned, and this may be simplifying to the extreme, but
1. Smoking is a health hazard
2. Second-hand smoke is a health hazard
Therefore, a ban on smoking in public places is surely only a good thing.
PS: I live in a country that has enforced such a ban for over a year now, and i can honestly tell you that there has been no impact on the buisness for bars and restaurants.
REMEMBER KIDS....
The Bible is full of lies - Stone is the leader of us all!
That's what I don't get. Before these laws..why were owners so chicken shit to say, "This is a no smoking establishment"?
Obviously it helps business.
I've talked to a few seattle bar owners over the past year who said that there was a negative impact on their bottom line. The name of the game with a bar is to keep an ass in the seat. As soon as they are required to exit the establishment to smoke they now are confronted with a choice - go back in, go somewhere else, or call it a night.
Before the smoking ban here, there were a few bars which were smoke free. If you didn't like smoke, you could find one of them and patronize them.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Comments
Well in New Jersey they are no trying ban smoking in your car. In San Fran they are trying to ban smoking in your home. Where does the government interference end.
so basically it's not the cigarettes that are hazardous to health but the bars?
I'm not a smoker, but I am a business owner.
Maybe it is cultural or semantics, but a private business is by definition not a public business. It is open to people who chose to work or patronize the business, but it is privately owned and operated. Accessible to the public does not change the ownership structure of the establishment.
Ever have a screaming kid in the back seat of your car? Should we ban them.
Govt interference in the People's Republic of San Francisco?? You don't say..
But seriously, what is a typical long car ride, an hour? You're telling me people can't go an hour without smoking??? Thats just one less hazard. I think its a worthy proposal.. I don't agree with banning in your own home though.
There are many things found in bars which aren't healthy. Cigarettes, alcohol, greasy hamburgers & fries, people with STDs, etc...
Ok what about changing the radio station. That can be a distraction should we ban radios in cars. Smoking a cigeratte while driving is no more a distaction that changing the radio station.
I would agree with this, but some have made a good argument that a bar is a public place. I still havent fully decided this.
meh, I don't really mind a law on this issue, and at least it will get non smokers to finally shut up, some of them can be as annoying a smelly jacket.
as for banning tobacco, I thought the same about taxes, but every time the price goes up some people stop smoking. Obviously the goal of the government isn't to keep people addicted.
Yeah they do..I just know that where I live we have a law that says no smoking in a restaurant. Bars you can. But some bars serve food.
My point is...my friends and I make the choice to go to the bars that serve food...so we would also make the choice to frequent bars that didn't allow smoking also. I'm a big fan of giving people a choice in life.
To say that a bar is a "public place" is to say that everyone has a right to the property in that bar. Tell me, do you think you should be able to walk into a bar, grab a glass, and drink your fill? Is that your right?
As a customer, I fucking hated smokers. I would dread going to restaurants I really enjoyed because the air would always smell like shit. Under the old system of smoking section and non-smoking section, it was just bad. If I wanted to eat beside a dump, I would eat beside a dump.
Since the smoking ban, restaurants in my city have sprung up like wildflower, and they are packed every night. The downtown bars/clubs have taken a bit of a hit, but the suburban bars and pubs (the ones planted near subdivisions outside of the central area of town) do amazing business. Packed every single night. The smoking ban has done amazing things for the local bar and restaurant scene.
I'm waiting for every bar in my town to send me a cut of their profits.
Was there a law before that forced them to allow smoking? That would be terrible too.
God bless you man.....
of course not. but dunkman makes a good arugment...
That's what I don't get. Before these laws..why were owners so chicken shit to say, "This is a no smoking establishment"?
Obviously it helps business.
By walking into an establishment that allows smoking - a place where you know people will be lighting up - you're voluntarily inhaling second hand smoke (unless of course you were hogtied and carried in).
I'm not totally disagreeing with you, but in some areas of the country this would be business suicide though.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
1. Smoking is a health hazard
2. Second-hand smoke is a health hazard
Therefore, a ban on smoking in public places is surely only a good thing.
PS: I live in a country that has enforced such a ban for over a year now, and i can honestly tell you that there has been no impact on the buisness for bars and restaurants.
The Bible is full of lies - Stone is the leader of us all!
Perhaps your idea of "help business" is not their idea of "help business". Just saying....
I've talked to a few seattle bar owners over the past year who said that there was a negative impact on their bottom line. The name of the game with a bar is to keep an ass in the seat. As soon as they are required to exit the establishment to smoke they now are confronted with a choice - go back in, go somewhere else, or call it a night.
Before the smoking ban here, there were a few bars which were smoke free. If you didn't like smoke, you could find one of them and patronize them.