what's the fucking deal with Israel?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

einatshaul wrote:

This is exactly what I ask, what planet are you on.

typical adhominem atack of those unable to comprehend,

Address my points.

I would love to see you try.

einatshaul

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

typical adhominem atack of those unable to comprehend,

Address my points.

I would love to see you try.

I do not need to address your points. They are not based on reality. The reality which I myself am living. It saddens me to read all these misguided opinions of people who obviously have no clue what goes on in the Middle East and base it all on the occasional propaganda and bias. Try visiting Israel and Palestine and having your own opinion.

Plenty of people from both nations are actually trying to facilitate neighborly discussion and work together on a solution, the sad fact is, there will always be narrow-mindedness in this world and ignorance – and then you’ll always find a rich power to support that, be it USA or Iran.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

einatshaul wrote:

I do not need to address your points. They are not based on reality. The reality which I myself am living. It saddens me to read all these misguided opinions of people who obviously have no clue what goes on in the Middle East and base it all on the occasional propaganda and bias. Try visiting Israel and Palestine and having your own opinion.

Plenty of people from both nations are actually trying to facilitate neighborly discussion and work together on a solution, the sad fact is, there will always be narrow-mindedness in this world and ignorance – and then you’ll always find a rich power to support that, be it USA or Iran.

Here's reality if you need a dose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Day

So why are the Palestinians being punished for the holocaust?

einatshaul

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Here's reality if you need a dose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Day

So why are the Palestinians being punished for the holocaust?

That is a very twisted thing to say and it doesn't deserve a serious answer. Good night, enjoy living in your darkness.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

einatshaul wrote:

That is a very twisted thing to say and it doesn't deserve a serious answer. Good night, enjoy living in your darkness.

Twisted? That's pretty twisted to dismiss the lives of all those people. Once could say elitist.

While for Israelis, the 1948 war gave them independence and this day represents the "fulfilment of a historic ideal of the Jewish people"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Arab-Israeli_war

Historic Ideal? :rolleyes: Israel was founded on another holocaust.

WHY???

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Someone mentioned something about reality.. I was wondering..

"Imagine a situation with a Palestinian state where there's now the state of Israel. Instead of Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories, you have Jews living in the Occupied Territories, with the Palestinian state taking land away from the Jews, treating them in brutal ways and denying them a state of their own. There would be a huge outcry in the West, especially in the United States and Canada. We would go to enormous lengths to put pressure on the Palestinian state to stop exploiting and brutalizing the Jews, and to allow them to have a state of their own. But here we have a situation where the roles are reversed,"

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20080425_114727_2004&page=2

fuck

einatshaul wrote:

I do not need to address your points. They are not based on reality. The reality which I myself am living. It saddens me to read all these misguided opinions of people who obviously have no clue what goes on in the Middle East and base it all on the occasional propaganda and bias. Try visiting Israel and Palestine and having your own opinion.

Plenty of people from both nations are actually trying to facilitate neighborly discussion and work together on a solution, the sad fact is, there will always be narrow-mindedness in this world and ignorance – and then you’ll always find a rich power to support that, be it USA or Iran.

Ok, I visited Palestine on several occasions. What's your point? I don't see anything in this post that refutes what Roland, and many others, have been saying.

Your arguments so far have been based on attacks and, well, nothing. If you want to make your point, then do so. we're all waiting.

Heineken Helen

sweetpotato wrote:

i'll say whatever i want, thanks. and i won't pass it by you first, btw.

and if you think i should check what i say, then so should helen. i've seen her shit on america repeatedly, in various threads, tho some here seem to have on rose- or maybe green- colored glasses when it comes to her. as if she's this big america supporter! that's a fucking joke.

here's the thing- millions of americans who didn't vote for bush and have hated him and his policies from day one ALREADY KNOW how fucked some of the things our country has and is doing IN OUR NAME. but people like helen base their opinion of america on the last seven years, a period that most americans would love to forget because we're embarrassed by how fucking stupid and arrogant our prez is and how he has turned what was once a nation that was admired and imitated into one that is an easy target for such worldly folk as our dear helen.

i for one, am fucking sick of it. we're coming up on an election, and we're trying with all our hearts to change what's going on in washington. give us a fucking break.

You're right... what the fuck would I know. I don't actually know ANY Americans whatsoever . Oh apart from my housemate, who's from Ohio, and her friends who drop over every now and then... and my few American friends here who I speak to every day. I have also BEEN to your country a few times. As for your paragraph on how it's just foreign policies that's wrong with America, I agree completely, and isn't that what I've been saying all along? Seems you agree with me after all

Heineken Helen

Kenny Olav wrote:

Helen, all I gots to say is if I ever get to Ireland, I'm buying you a beer in your favorite pub.

Nah, you come here and I'M doing the buying? book your fucking ticket already

Heineken Helen

swallowedwords wrote:

If the "Palestinians" had any brains, they would've been furious at Arafat for siphoning most of the financial aid his people received to his Swiss Bank Accounts.

How do you feel about YOUR government siphoning all your money to help a country half a world away? That's the purpose of this thread. And I don't mean to be smart... I simply just can't understand how that works. If my government were doing something like that, I'd be seriously pissed off.

Heineken Helen

swallowedwords wrote:

The only thing that can ever be settled, is whether or not there will be Jews living side by side with their Arab neighbors in relative peace. If you think the Jews are going to one day pick up and hand over Israel, you're incredibly naive.

Nobody's suggesting that or expecting that. In an ideal world there would be Israel AND Palestine living side by side, dropping into eachother for sugar or milk... that would be wonderful. Ain't gonna happen... and certainly not any day now. There have been suggestions put in this thread that WOULD work over long term. None of them involved the Jewish people being kicked out or the Palestinians taking control.

El_Kabong

sweetpotato wrote:

i'll say whatever i want, thanks. and i won't pass it by you first, btw.

and if you think i should check what i say, then so should helen. i've seen her shit on america repeatedly, in various threads, tho some here seem to have on rose- or maybe green- colored glasses when it comes to her. as if she's this big america supporter! that's a fucking joke.

here's the thing- millions of americans who didn't vote for bush and have hated him and his policies from day one ALREADY KNOW how fucked some of the things our country has and is doing IN OUR NAME. but people like helen base their opinion of america on the last seven years, a period that most americans would love to forget because we're embarrassed by how fucking stupid and arrogant our prez is and how he has turned what was once a nation that was admired and imitated into one that is an easy target for such worldly folk as our dear helen.

i for one, am fucking sick of it. we're coming up on an election, and we're trying with all our hearts to change what's going on in washington. give us a fucking break.

that first line sounds oddly familiar



basing it on the last seven years??? are you serious? did you forget about regean? bush I? even pj wrote about clinton bombing countries! i think american foreign policy has been horrible for far longer than the past 7 years....ford, nixon, johnson, kennedy (did ya forget the unpopular war in the 60's not to mention all the secret and illegal wars thruoghout the 80's and part of th e90's???)....come on, now!

Heineken Helen

einatshaul wrote:

I do not need to address your points. They are not based on reality. The reality which I myself am living. It saddens me to read all these misguided opinions of people who obviously have no clue what goes on in the Middle East and base it all on the occasional propaganda and bias. Try visiting Israel and Palestine and having your own opinion.

Plenty of people from both nations are actually trying to facilitate neighborly discussion and work together on a solution, the sad fact is, there will always be narrow-mindedness in this world and ignorance – and then you’ll always find a rich power to support that, be it USA or Iran.

Nice post Einat and of course there are plenty of people on both sides looking for peace. What I'm saying is that the media need to give THEM more of a platform and a louder voice than the extremists on both sides (which is quite often sadly all we hear). And yes, I'd LOVE to visit you some day maybe when PJ tour the middle east

Heineken Helen

Again... can any of you who are on Israels side in this... explain why you're ok with the government using YOUR money to fund the conflict? Simple question... please don't reply by calling me anti-semitic or anti-american or anything... just tell me what it is that would make you vote for somebody who's telling you they will squander your money on another country.

Open

Heineken Helen wrote:

Again... can any of you who are on Israels side in this... explain why you're ok with the government using YOUR money to fund the conflict? Simple question... please don't reply by calling me anti-semitic or anti-american or anything... just tell me what it is that would make you vote for somebody who's telling you they will squander your money on another country.

They cant, if you talk out against Israel, you're essentially an anti semite.

This has been posted before but its a good listen.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14154082

Heineken Helen

Open wrote:

They cant, if you talk out against Israel, you're essentially an anti semite.

This has been posted before but its a good listen.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14154082

sad but true!

zootown

Heineken Helen wrote:

Again... can any of you who are on Israels side in this... explain why you're ok with the government using YOUR money to fund the conflict? Simple question... please don't reply by calling me anti-semitic or anti-american or anything... just tell me what it is that would make you vote for somebody who's telling you they will squander your money on another country.

Wow, what a thread. Id like to take a stab at this one, Helen. If there is one thing about America that you may or may not know is that our government will NEVER admit they are wrong. Whether we are talking about this issue or others (the war on drugs, illegal immigration, health care, environmental policy, foreign policy), American leaders will always see being confident and self-assured as more important than being "right". Im not on either "side" of this complex and emotionally charged debate. In some ways, I see this conflict as amazingly symbolic of what will become of our world- can humans learn to overcome and forgive each other and truly make strides towards peace OR will the hidden agendas and back room dealings continue to be the order of the day. Im guessing that you have read Thoreau's "civil disobedience" essay- this is how I feel......

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Good content, bonus points for the title. I would have used the term "utter bullshit"...but I digress..

"when you get something from the Israelis. "Four out of five times it's complete and total bullshit."

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/6864

Byrnzie

einatshaul wrote:

I do not need to address your points. They are not based on reality. The reality which I myself am living. It saddens me to read all these misguided opinions of people who obviously have no clue what goes on in the Middle East and base it all on the occasional propaganda and bias. Try visiting Israel and Palestine and having your own opinion.

Plenty of people from both nations are actually trying to facilitate neighborly discussion and work together on a solution, the sad fact is, there will always be narrow-mindedness in this world and ignorance – and then you’ll always find a rich power to support that, be it USA or Iran.

So you live in Israel. O.k. So your reality is a life within Israel. I'd like to ask you what you think about the Palestinians living not a million miles away in conditions of extreme poverty and desperation. http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/01/04/despair_poverty_rise_in_palestinian_area/5010/

'...hunger is an ongoing issue. Food security for Gaza's 1.5 million people has also been steadily deteriorating. (Food insecurity, according to the United Nations, describes the circumstance in which people cannot be sure of getting access to adequate supplies of nutritious and safe food.)

A U.N. World Food Program initiative called Emergency Food Needs Assessment showed that 51 percent of Palestinians are food insecure in the occupied territory as a whole, with 70 percent food insecure in Gaza.

The main factors affecting Palestinians' access to food, exacerbated by the second intifada, are Israeli imposed restrictions on their internal and external movement. Limited Palestinian control over their natural resources -- in particular water and agricultural land -- is another major factor.

Furthermore, chronic malnutrition and dietary-related diseases are slowly increasing, WHO has reported.

Anemia amongst children age nine to 12 months stands at 69 percent in Gaza and 47 percent in the West Bank, with 33 percent of women of childbearing age affected. The number of cases of stunting, low birth weights and premature deaths is also increasing.

Some 70 percent of Palestinians are estimated by the United Nations Children's Fund to be living below the poverty line. According to UNRWA and the Palestinian Ministry of Social Affairs, the number of chronic poor has risen sharply...'

You talk about having an opinion and about 'reality' yet you haven't presented any opinion on the issue. And in case you're wondering - just because you live in Israel, doesn't mean that your word on this subject is sacred. According to U.N observers your government is currently responsible for an ongoing crime against humanity. What's your opinion on that?

http://www.arabnews.com/?article=105886

I warn you that you may find the following photos upsetting...but unfortunately this is the 'reality'....

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7942

Open

Byrnzie wrote:

So you live in Israel. O.k. So your reality is a life within Israel. I'd like to ask you what you think about the Palestinians living not a million miles away in conditions of extreme poverty and desperation. http://www.metimes.com/International/2008/01/04/despair_poverty_rise_in_palestinian_area/5010/

'...hunger is an ongoing issue. Food security for Gaza's 1.5 million people has also been steadily deteriorating. (Food insecurity, according to the United Nations, describes the circumstance in which people cannot be sure of getting access to adequate supplies of nutritious and safe food.)

A U.N. World Food Program initiative called Emergency Food Needs Assessment showed that 51 percent of Palestinians are food insecure in the occupied territory as a whole, with 70 percent food insecure in Gaza.

The main factors affecting Palestinians' access to food, exacerbated by the second intifada, are Israeli imposed restrictions on their internal and external movement. Limited Palestinian control over their natural resources -- in particular water and agricultural land -- is another major factor.

Furthermore, chronic malnutrition and dietary-related diseases are slowly increasing, WHO has reported.

Anemia amongst children age nine to 12 months stands at 69 percent in Gaza and 47 percent in the West Bank, with 33 percent of women of childbearing age affected. The number of cases of stunting, low birth weights and premature deaths is also increasing.

Some 70 percent of Palestinians are estimated by the United Nations Children's Fund to be living below the poverty line. According to UNRWA and the Palestinian Ministry of Social Affairs, the number of chronic poor has risen sharply...'

You talk about having an opinion and about 'reality' yet you haven't presented any opinion on the issue. And in case you're wondering - just because you live in Israel, doesn't mean that your word on this subject is sacred. According to U.N observers your government is currently responsible for an ongoing crime against humanity. What's your opinion on that?

http://www.arabnews.com/?article=105886

I warn you that you may find the following photos upsetting...but unfortunately this is the 'reality'....

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7942

Amazing and sad...thanks for posting.