what's the fucking deal with Israel?

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

I just want to weigh in on this topic and say that the "Palestinians" would've had their own state by now, if it wasn't for Yasser Arafat's pandering to the radicals, and groups like Islamic Jihad, Hamas, etc.

I have little sympathy for the "Palestinians". After all, the "Palestinians" never had their own state. The region was controlled by the Ottomans, the Jordanians, etc. Let's face it, the Jews have always been an easy and convenient scapegoat for many.

I'm amazed at all the Irish support for the "Palestinians". I'm relieved my Irish born mother supports the civilized side, which is Israel.

The only way there will ever be peace in that region, is if Islamic extremism ceases to exist, which will probably never happen.

Israel are, at best, no more civilised than the Palestinians. Both sides are committing atrocities. The only difference is, Palestine doesn't have America supporting its efforts, or pledging unbreakable friendship to them. The fact that Israel is a Jewish state has nothing to do with the condemnation of their actions - the fact that they're occupying foreign territory and killing huge numbers of civilians has everything to do with it.

But then, Muslims will always be an easy and convenient scapegoat for many. :rolleyes:

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Israel are, at best, no more civilised than the Palestinians. Both sides are committing atrocities. The only difference is, Palestine doesn't have America supporting its efforts, or pledging unbreakable friendship to them. The fact that Israel is a Jewish state has nothing to do with the condemnation of their actions - the fact that they're occupying foreign territory and killing huge numbers of civilians has everything to do with it.

But then, Muslims will always be an easy and convenient scapegoat for many. :rolleyes:

It was the "Palestinians" who danced and cheered as the WTC crumbled to the ground. Not very civilized, in my opinion. Unlike Islamic radicals, Israelis don't target civilians. Unfortunately, innocent civilians will always get killed in wars, but you can't equate what Israel does in retaliation to what the Jihadists do via suicide bombing and chopping the heads off of innocents.

If the "Palestinians" had any brains, they would've been furious at Arafat for siphoning most of the financial aid his people received to his Swiss Bank Accounts.

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

It was the "Palestinians" who danced and cheered as the WTC crumbled to the ground. Not very civilized, in my opinion. Unlike Islamic radicals, Israelis don't target civilians. Unfortunately, innocent civilians will always get killed in wars, but you can't equate what Israel does in retaliation to what the Jihadists to via suicide bombing and chopping the heads off of innocents.

If the "Palestinians" had any brains, they would've been furious at Arafat for siphoning most of the financial aid his people received to his Swiss Bank Accounts.

The Israeli military has killed many, many times the amount of civilians Palestine has, and not always in retaliation either. If you want to justify it by saying they're gonna get killed in wars, that's your choice, but I find that point of view hard to stomach.

And putting Palestinians in quotes just sums up how blindly biased you are on this topic.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

The Israeli military has killed many, many times the amount of civilians Palestine has, and not always in retaliation either. If you want to justify it by saying they're gonna get killed in wars, that's your choice, but I find that point of view hard to stomach.

And putting Palestinians in quotes just sums up how blindly biased you are on this topic.

Oh, I admit it, I'm very biased when it comes to this topic. It seems evident to me that the "Palestinians" had quite a few opportunities to secure their own state, but instead, killing Jews was always the better option for them. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with people whose only goal is to push every Jew into the sea, negotiating isn't so easy.

Again, as long as there are Islamic fanatics, there will be no peace in the World. Israel could be wiped off the map tomorrow, and you'd still have Jihadis plotting and planning their next terror campaign on innocent westerners.

By the way, the US not only gives loads of money to Israel, but we also throw tons of cash at Egypt, Jordan...

Rhinocerous Surprise

swallowedwords wrote:

Oh, I admit it, I'm very biased when it comes to this topic. It seems evident to me that the "Palestinians" had quite a few opportunities to secure their own state, but instead, killing Jews was always the better option for them. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with people whose only goal is to push every Jew into the sea, negotiating isn't so easy.

Again, as long as there are Islamic fanatics, there will be no peace in the World. Israel could be wiped off the map tomorrow, and you'd still have Jihadis plotting and planning their next terror campaign on innocent westerners.

By the way, the US not only gives loads of money to Israel, but we also throw tons of cash at Egypt, Jordan...

What point are you making here? That there are Islamic fanatics in the middle east? We know that - but saying that Palestine, or any country, is solely comprised of them is wrong, and pretty ignorant. The fact is, Israel has done nothing to show any kind of willingness to even contemplate recognising Palestine's borders, government or human rights.

And as long as there are people like you, trying to justify actions such as Israel are taking, there'll be no peace in the world.

angelica

swallowedwords wrote:

Oh, I admit it, I'm very biased when it comes to this topic. It seems evident to me that the "Palestinians" had quite a few opportunities to secure their own state, but instead, killing Jews was always the better option for them. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with people whose only goal is to push every Jew into the sea, negotiating isn't so easy.

Again, as long as there are Islamic fanatics, there will be no peace in the World. Israel could be wiped off the map tomorrow, and you'd still have Jihadis plotting and planning their next terror campaign on innocent westerners.

By the way, the US not only gives loads of money to Israel, but we also throw tons of cash at Egypt, Jordan...

Peace exists all over the world. There are many many places where people live side by side and work out vast differences effectively.

As long as we justify perpetuating war and kiilling, and as long as we support it, we will continue to create and support war, killing, nefarious deeds and the horrible consequences. Conflict always, always takes two sides.

Conflict can be solved when only one side seeks to end it.

swallowedwords

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

What point are you making here? That there are Islamic fanatics in the middle east? We know that - but saying that Palestine, or any country, is solely comprised of them is wrong, and pretty ignorant. The fact is, Israel has done nothing to show any kind of willingness to even contemplate recognising Palestine's borders, government or human rights.

And as long as there are people like you, trying to justify actions such as Israel are taking, there'll be no peace in the world.

Israel has done nothing to recognize Palestinian borders??? Remember the "peace" talks between Ehud Barak and Yasser Arafat? Arafat was offered approximately 85-90% of what he demanded, yet nothing materialized, because Arafat favored killing inncocent Jews more.

Personally, I hope Israel isn't naive enough to think a "Palestinian" state would mean peace in the region. When you deal with the devil, you never win.

By the way, if you think the majority of "Palestinians" are moderates who want peace with Israel, then you are incredibly ignorant. Hamas isn't in control over there because of their tolerant stance. Wake the hell up, pal.

swallowedwords

angelica wrote:

Peace exists all over the world. There are many many places where people live side by side and work out vast differences effectively.

As long as we justify perpetuating war and kiilling, and as long as we support it, we will continue to create and support war, killing, nefarious deeds and the horrible consequences. Conflict always, always takes two sides.

Conflict can be solved when only one side seeks to end it.

Believe me, I'm not saying everything Israel does or has done is justified. But, if I had to pick sides, I'm going with Israel for many reasons. Israel is a convenient excuse for fanatical arabs/muslims to act like animals.

angelica

swallowedwords wrote:

Believe me, I'm not saying everything Israel does or has done is justified. But, if I had to pick sides, I'm going with Israel for many reasons. Israel is a convenient excuse for fanatical arabs/muslims to act like animals.

It sounds like fanatical arabs/muslims is your "excuse" to take sides and perpetuate conflict and killing.

I put the word "excuse" in quotes, because in actuality, there is no excuse. We cannot justify the unjustifiable.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

swallowedwords wrote:

It was the "Palestinians" who danced and cheered as the WTC crumbled to the ground. Not very civilized, in my opinion. Unlike Islamic radicals, Israelis don't target civilians. Unfortunately, innocent civilians will always get killed in wars, but you can't equate what Israel does in retaliation to what the Jihadists do via suicide bombing and chopping the heads off of innocents.

If the "Palestinians" had any brains, they would've been furious at Arafat for siphoning most of the financial aid his people received to his Swiss Bank Accounts.

What are you talking about? You mean the 5 Israeli agents sent over to record 9/11 that were dancing on top of their van which traces of explosive residue present?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

Did you know about that?

swallowedwords

angelica wrote:

It sounds like fanatical arabs/muslims is your "excuse" to take sides and perpetuate conflict and killing.

I put the word "excuse" in quotes, because in actuality, there is no excuse. We cannot justify the unjustifiable.

What is the solution over there? Talking and reasoning didn't work. How do you deal with people who only want to see you dead?

fuck

swallowedwords wrote:

Israel is a convenient excuse for fanatical arabs/muslims to act like animals.

similarly, the Holocaust is a convenient excuse for the Israeli government to act like animals.

see, I can do it too.

I'm having trouble figuring out if your posts are a joke or serious because of how incredibly ignorant they are. Do you know what a news article is? I suggest you read one sometime. Even someone who watches CNN for all their news can't be this ignorant.

swallowedwords

_FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:

similarly, the Holocaust is a convenient excuse for the Israeli government to act like animals.

see, I can do it too.

I'm having trouble figuring out if your posts are a joke or serious because of how incredibly ignorant they are. Do you know what a news article is? I suggest you read one sometime. Even someone who watches CNN for all their news can't be this ignorant.

Out of all the things I've said, all you can do is call me names and be petty? Hilarious! Yet, I'm ignorant?

angelica

swallowedwords wrote:

What is the solution over there? Talking and reasoning didn't work. How do you deal with people who only want to see you dead?

The solution is to do what it takes to find a solution.

Creating conflict and war is diametrically opposed to finding a solution. To continue doing so we continue to create what we don't want, and with blood on our hands. Creating solutions isn't easy, and can be a long process that includes much inner change. And yet it's better than being what we hate, and creating what we rail against thusly extending the problem indefinitely.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

This whole issue has become so crystal clear to me over the years...

So why are the Palestinians being punished for the holocaust is the question?

Try to legitimize that nonsense...

swallowedwords

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

This whole issue has become so crystal clear to me over the years...

So why are the Palestinians being punished for the holocaust is the question?

Try to legitimize that nonsense...

The "Palestinians" are being punished by their own kind. If the overwhelming majority of "Palestinians" would denounce Islamist fanatics, instead of embracing them, they would have their own state by now.

Again, when you embrace Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezzbollah, etc., don't expect concessions.

fuck

swallowedwords wrote:

Out of all the things I've said, all you can do is call me names and be petty? Hilarious! Yet, I'm ignorant?

hmm...

swallowedwords wrote:

I'm relieved my Irish born mother supports the civilized side, which is Israel.

The only way there will ever be peace in that region, is if Islamic extremism ceases to exist, which will probably never happen.

swallowedwords wrote:

It was the "Palestinians" who danced and cheered as the WTC crumbled to the ground.

Not very civilized, in my opinion.

If the "Palestinians" had any brains,

swallowedwords wrote:

It seems evident to me that the "Palestinians" had quite a few opportunities to secure their own state, but instead, killing Jews was always the better option for them.

Unfortunately, when you're dealing with people whose only goal is to push every Jew into the sea, negotiating isn't so easy.

Again, as long as there are Islamic fanatics, there will be no peace in the World.

Israel could be wiped off the map tomorrow, and you'd still have Jihadis plotting and planning their next terror campaign on innocent westerners.

swallowedwords wrote:

Arafat favored killing inncocent Jews more.

Personally, I hope Israel isn't naive enough to think a "Palestinian" state would mean peace in the region.

When you deal with the devil, you never win.

swallowedwords wrote:

people who only want to see you dead

...
again, who is the petty one? who is the one name-calling and making wild accusations?

sorry, but as far as ignorance goes, I'm pretty sure you win. congratulations.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

swallowedwords wrote:

The "Palestinians" are being punished by their own kind. If the overwhelming majority of "Palestinians" would denounce Islamist fanatics, instead of embracing them, they would have their own state by now.

Again, when you embrace Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezzbollah, etc., don't expect concessions.

sorry...

that's total nonsense..

Their land is being occupied forcefully by an enemy combatant.

It's an occupation. They (Palestinians) are defending themselves. It's their land.

swallowedwords

Everything I've said is accurate. Instead of being petty, try critical thinking.

_FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:

hmm...
...
again, who is the petty one? who is the one name-calling and making wild accusations?

sorry, but as far as ignorance goes, I'm pretty sure you win. congratulations.

angelica

swallowedwords wrote:

Everything I've said is accurate. Instead of being petty, try critical thinking.

There are two types of critical thinking. One is looking to understand the situation as it is. The other type is looking to justify one's own personal perspective. Which form are you claiming?