what's the fucking deal with Israel?

Heineken Helen

And why are all the candidates going on about how they'll protect it? Does it not piss you off that your country is probably spending BILLIONS a year to protect another country halfway around the world... a conflict that only makes you a target? As an outsider, it seems pretty fucking ridiculous! I know about the whole money thing and how america is run by Jews and all that BUT... fucking hell, could their intentions BE more obvious?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

In a nutshell...

Certain fanatical elements (i.e. the entire Israeli govt and those that blindly support their policies) claim gods divine given right to carry on like racist idiots towards the Palestinian people and get away with it (for the past 60 years)

The horror stories are endless.

May 15th marks the 60th year anniversary of the Nakba
http://imeu.net/news/article008085.shtml

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Reading through the pre Nakba chronology is rather illuminating.

http://www.alnakba.org/chronology/chronology.htm

Abookamongstthemany

Not Nader

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0718-33.htm

(oh look, this is from 2006, not a presidential election year)

Heineken Helen

but seriously... if our candidates were using a statement like 'if anyone bombs *insert random country here... perhaps Abu Dhabi* we'll anihilate/obliterate/whatever word of the day is them' we'd all be looking at him/her like what the fuck? And then he'd be carried off by the men in the white coats. It's completely ridiculous... and to use it as a means to actually get people to VOTE FOR ya? :eek: makes NO sense whatsoever!

smokeabud

Heineken Helen wrote:

but seriously... if our candidates were using a statement like 'if anyone bombs *insert random country here... perhaps Abu Dhabi* we'll anihilate/obliterate/whatever word of the day is them' we'd all be looking at him/her like what the fuck? And then he'd be carried off by the men in the white coats. It's completely ridiculous... and to use it as a means to actually get people to VOTE FOR ya? :eek: makes NO sense whatsoever!

LOL . welcome to the wonderful world of American politics..

Abookamongstthemany

Heineken Helen wrote:

but seriously... if our candidates were using a statement like 'if anyone bombs *insert random country here... perhaps Abu Dhabi* we'll anihilate/obliterate/whatever word of the day is them' we'd all be looking at him/her like what the fuck? And then he'd be carried off by the men in the white coats. It's completely ridiculous... and to use it as a means to actually get people to VOTE FOR ya? :eek: makes NO sense whatsoever!

Things don't make good sense here, Helen. Imagine if you had to live here with it everyday. All we can do is keep speaking our minds and hope it changes one day really soon.

Heineken Helen

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Things don't make good sense here, Helen. Imagine if you had to live here with it everyday. All we can do is keep speaking our minds and hope it changes one day really soon.

Oh I know there are plenty of Americans who can see through it and think as I do... but the others... I mean, what planet are they on? It really is mind boggling... if it weren't so serious it would actually be fucking hilarious and make a great sitcom.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh I know there are plenty of Americans who can see through it and think as I do... but the others... I mean, what planet are they on? It really is mind boggling... if it weren't so serious it would actually be fucking hilarious and make a great sitcom.

What's even more sad and not so hilarious is they somehow manipulate their thought patterns to function in such a way so they point fingers at other people calling them racists when in fact they are describing themselves.

Some kind of cult style brainwashing is the only logical explanation I can think of (aside from sheer lack of information). However, those lacking information on a topic usually ask questions instead of point fingers and accuse.


bizarre

Heineken Helen

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

What's even more sad and not so hilarious is they somehow manipulate their thought patterns to function in such a way so they point fingers at other people calling them racists when in fact they are describing themselves.

Some kind of cult style brainwashing is the only logical explanation I can think of (aside from sheer lack of information). However, those lacking information on a topic usually ask questions instead of point fingers and accuse.


bizarre

oh absolutely brainwashing is a big part of it and some people just trust in everything they are told sadly!

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Israel’s Hush-Up Machine in Action: Denying Story Israel Executed Egyptian Prisoners:
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2007/0705028.html

"In the words of the late Israeli Gen. Moshe Dayan: “The declaration of the State of Israel in 1948 was at the expense of ethnically cleansing 513 Palestinian villages, creating over 700,000 Palestinian refugees and expropriating their lands, homes and businesses in 78 percent of Palestine…There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former population.”"

"A Four-Decade History of Violence

In the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel invaded and occupied the Gaza Strip, Arab East Jerusalem and the West Bank, as well as Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula and Syria’s Golan Heights, home to an Arab population of about 1.5 million. Between 13,000 and 18,000 Arabs were killed, and 6,000 were taken prisoner.”

Many Americans accept as truth the myth that Israel was defending itself against the Arabs. According to an account by then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin, however, reported in The New York Times of Aug. 21, 1982: “In June 1967, we had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”"

RolandTD20Kdrummer

and this story I couldn't make up if I tried...

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/108541.html

"05/13/2008

Federal authorities charged that a methamphetamine laboratory was operating at the nation's largest kosher slaughterhouse and that employees carried weapons to work.

The charges were among the most explosive details to emerge following the massive raid Monday at Agriprocessors in Postville, Iowa.

In a 60-page application for a search warrant, federal agents revealed details of their six-month probe of Agriprocessors. The investigation involved 12 federal agencies, including the Drug Enforcement Administration, the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the departments of labor and agriculture.

According to the application, a former plant supervisor told investigators that some 80 percent of the workforce was illegal. They included rabbis responsible for kosher supervision,"


wtf?!?!

even flow?

Heineken Helen wrote:

And why are all the candidates going on about how they'll protect it? Does it not piss you off that your country is probably spending BILLIONS a year to protect another country halfway around the world... a conflict that only makes you a target? As an outsider, it seems pretty fucking ridiculous! I know about the whole money thing and how america is run by Jews and all that BUT... fucking hell, could their intentions BE more obvious?

The state was created so the west had somewhere over there to call their own and use as a base to control the middle east. Nothing more and nothing less.

fuck

even flow? wrote:

The state was created so the west had somewhere over there to call their own and use as a base to control the middle east. Nothing more and nothing less.

only now, israel is the one controlling US foreign policy...

Rhinocerous Surprise

What I want to know is why the fuck Israel is participating in the Eurovision, and Euro 2008. Either you're part of the middle east and stop pretending to be European, or you stop killing people to take land in the part of the world you don't want to be associated with.

Heineken Helen

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

What I want to know is why the fuck Israel is participating in the Eurovision, and Euro 2008. Either you're part of the middle east and stop pretending to be European, or you stop killing people to take land in the part of the world you don't want to be associated with.

LMFAO... are they middle eastern or European? Perhaps they should simply be American and seal the entire fucking deal . It's just strange... I mean Britain invading Ireland I get... we're the closest piece of land to them! But the Jewish people kicking out their enemies... to live in the MIDDLE of their enemies and then wonder why they face some retaliation... I mean you couldn't make this shit up!

even flow?

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

What I want to know is why the fuck Israel is participating in the Eurovision, and Euro 2008. Either you're part of the middle east and stop pretending to be European, or you stop killing people to take land in the part of the world you don't want to be associated with.

The Arabs don't want to play with them and the Jews are afraid to play with them. So they get dumped in the with the Europeans.

Rhinocerous Surprise

Heineken Helen wrote:

LMFAO... are they middle eastern or European? Perhaps they should simply be American and seal the entire fucking deal . It's just strange... I mean Britain invading Ireland I get... we're the closest piece of land to them! But the Jewish people kicking out their enemies... to live in the MIDDLE of their enemies and then wonder why they face some retaliation... I mean you couldn't make this shit up!

It's so incredibly childish... like they want to have their cake, and eat it too. Except the cake is made of civilian lives! :eek:

But of course, who are we to talk? We're all raging anti-Semites, right? :rolleyes:

Heineken Helen

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

It's so incredibly childish... like they want to have their cake, and eat it too. Except the cake is made of civilian lives! :eek:

But of course, who are we to talk? We're all raging anti-Semites, right? :rolleyes:

not to mention anti-american so when ya put the two together, why would anyone listen?

JordyWordy

while i did enjoy their contribution to the 1998 contribution to the eurovision, theyve really let their standards slip. no country disrespects the pride & glory of eurovision on my watch. no way josè

1998: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fv83u7-mNWQ&feature=related

2006: http://youtube.com/watch?v=f_h_rLKTLvs

see for yourself. what a fucking disgrace

Rhinocerous Surprise

JordyWordy wrote:

while i did enjoy their contribution to the 1998 contribution to the eurovision, theyve really let their standards slip. no country disrespects the pride & glory of eurovision on my watch. no way josè

1998: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fv83u7-mNWQ&feature=related

2006: http://youtube.com/watch?v=f_h_rLKTLvs

see for yourself. what a fucking disgrace

So that's what became of that guy who sang Mad World...

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

The Israel situation is not something that will be solved this election.

MLC2006

Heineken Helen wrote:

what's the fucking deal with Israel?

By MARK LAVIE, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 34 minutes ago



JERUSALEM - A rocket fired from the Gaza Strip exploded in a shopping center in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon on Wednesday, wounding at least 14 people, rescue officials said.


The attack came as President Bush wrapped up talks in Jerusalem with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. The Israeli leader said Israel would not tolerate attacks by extremists in Gaza, which has been controlled by the Islamic militants of the Hamas movement since last June.

Two militant groups, the Iranian-backed Islamic Jihad and the Hamas-linked Popular Resistance Committees, claimed responsibility for the rocket strike.

Army Radio said the rocket hit the third floor of the Hutzot mall. The report said a clinic takes up part of the floor. Witnesses said an early warning system meant to give a few seconds for people to take cover did not sound an alarm before the rocket slammed into the mall.

The Magen David Adom rescue service said three people were wounded seriously and 11 others had lesser injuries. But Leah Malul, an official at Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, said two women and two girls suffered serious injuries.

A witness identified only as Yuri told Israel Radio he was on the first floor when the rocket hit two floors above.

"There was the sound of a really loud explosion. Everybody started running, it was a really big mess. I went outside and saw smoke in the air. All the windows were blown out," he said.

Two Israelis have been killed in recent days in attacks by Palestinian militants on Israeli communities near the border with Gaza.

Such attacks often draw a military response from Israel, and five Palestinians were killed earlier Wednesday during Israeli military operations in Gaza.

While militants have fired homemade rockets into rural southern Israeli border towns for several years, only recently have they gained the capability to target Ashkelon, a city of 110,000 people about nine miles from the border. The longer-range attacks involve foreign-made Grad-type rockets.

Israel believes Islamic Jihad gets the Grads from Iran. "It's part of the Iranian war against Israel," former Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh told Israel Radio.

After meeting with Bush, the prime minister blamed Hamas.

"We will not be able to tolerate continuous attacks on innocent civilians," Olmert said. "We hope we will not have to act against Hamas in other ways with the military power that Israel hasn't yet started to use in a serious manner in order to stop it."

Israel has been reluctant to launch a major ground offensive in Gaza, worrying about casualties to its soldiers.

Israel's high-tech military has been unable to find a way to stop the crude rockets. Past invasions have halted daily rocket fire only briefly, and the barrages resumed as soon as Israeli troops pulled out.

Before he leaves office in January, Bush hopes to broker a peace agreement between Israel and the moderate Palestinian government of President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank. Israel has warned it will not sign any accord until Abbas regains control of Gaza from Hamas.

Abbas claims the West Bank and Gaza — areas on opposite sides of Israel — for a future independent state. Hamas, which is to Israel's destruction, opposes the peace talks.

Rhinocerous Surprise

MLC2006 wrote:

By MARK LAVIE, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 34 minutes ago



JERUSALEM - A rocket fired from the Gaza Strip exploded in a shopping center in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon on Wednesday, wounding at least 14 people, rescue officials said.


The attack came as President Bush wrapped up talks in Jerusalem with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. The Israeli leader said Israel would not tolerate attacks by extremists in Gaza, which has been controlled by the Islamic militants of the Hamas movement since last June.

Two militant groups, the Iranian-backed Islamic Jihad and the Hamas-linked Popular Resistance Committees, claimed responsibility for the rocket strike.

Army Radio said the rocket hit the third floor of the Hutzot mall. The report said a clinic takes up part of the floor. Witnesses said an early warning system meant to give a few seconds for people to take cover did not sound an alarm before the rocket slammed into the mall.

The Magen David Adom rescue service said three people were wounded seriously and 11 others had lesser injuries. But Leah Malul, an official at Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, said two women and two girls suffered serious injuries.

A witness identified only as Yuri told Israel Radio he was on the first floor when the rocket hit two floors above.

"There was the sound of a really loud explosion. Everybody started running, it was a really big mess. I went outside and saw smoke in the air. All the windows were blown out," he said.

Two Israelis have been killed in recent days in attacks by Palestinian militants on Israeli communities near the border with Gaza.

Such attacks often draw a military response from Israel, and five Palestinians were killed earlier Wednesday during Israeli military operations in Gaza.

While militants have fired homemade rockets into rural southern Israeli border towns for several years, only recently have they gained the capability to target Ashkelon, a city of 110,000 people about nine miles from the border. The longer-range attacks involve foreign-made Grad-type rockets.

Israel believes Islamic Jihad gets the Grads from Iran. "It's part of the Iranian war against Israel," former Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh told Israel Radio.

After meeting with Bush, the prime minister blamed Hamas.

"We will not be able to tolerate continuous attacks on innocent civilians," Olmert said. "We hope we will not have to act against Hamas in other ways with the military power that Israel hasn't yet started to use in a serious manner in order to stop it."

Israel has been reluctant to launch a major ground offensive in Gaza, worrying about casualties to its soldiers.

Israel's high-tech military has been unable to find a way to stop the crude rockets. Past invasions have halted daily rocket fire only briefly, and the barrages resumed as soon as Israeli troops pulled out.

Before he leaves office in January, Bush hopes to broker a peace agreement between Israel and the moderate Palestinian government of President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank. Israel has warned it will not sign any accord until Abbas regains control of Gaza from Hamas.

Abbas claims the West Bank and Gaza — areas on opposite sides of Israel — for a future independent state. Hamas, which is to Israel's destruction, opposes the peace talks.

While I in no way condone Hamas' attacks on civilians, the highlighted paragraph strikes me as particularly hypocritical.

MLC2006

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

While I in no way condone Hamas' attacks on civilians, the highlighted paragraph strikes me as particularly hypocritical.

why? surely the leader of the country would not continue to tolerate attacks on civilians. if you're taking about about the last part of the quote, I think it's pretty common knowledge that Israel has more firepower than Hamas. Sounds to me as if he's trying to give them fair warning to cut that shit out.

Rhinocerous Surprise

MLC2006 wrote:

why? surely the leader of the country would not continue to tolerate attacks on civilians. if you're taking about about the last part of the quote, I think it's pretty common knowledge that Israel has more firepower than Hamas. Sounds to me as if he's trying to give them fair warning to cut that shit out.

I think it's hypocritical to say they won't tolerate attacks on civilians when they've been killing many, many more civilians than Palestine has. You don't get to act offended if the country you've been indiscriminately bombing retaliates every now and then.

SVRDhand13

Im in shock... there are actually people here who agree with my beliefs on this matter. Usually all of my Jewish friends make me feel so bad about the situation that I'm not even allowed to talk about it.

Anyway, it really did dissapoint me to hear Obama say he'll support Israel- he did it just to get those votes.

MLC2006

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

I think it's hypocritical to say they won't tolerate attacks on civilians when they've been killing many, many more civilians than Palestine has. You don't get to act offended if the country you've been indiscriminately bombing retaliates every now and then.

so what you're saying is that what Israel is doing is called "indiscriminate bombing", and what the Palestinians are doing is called "retaliation"?

Rhinocerous Surprise

MLC2006 wrote:

so what you're saying is that what Israel is doing is called "indiscriminate bombing", and what the Palestinians are doing is called "retaliation"?

Oh, I have no doubt that the Palestinians are indiscriminately bombing. But they're not doing it as often, they're fighting off an oppressing force with military superiority, and they're killing far fewer people. Guiding a crude bomb isn't an exact science. Air strikes are.

Cosmo

Isn't Israel the only nation in the Middle East that possesses both Nuclear warheads and tested delivery systems?
I have asked this before... why should America bomb (*insert Arab/Persian threat du jour here*) if said Arab nation bombs Israel? Shouldn't ISRAEL bomb them? Are we Israel's bodyguard? If so... WHY do they need nukes?
israel is all grown up now and has gotten pretty tough. Why do Americans theat them like some tiny infant? They have fucking nukes!!! Are you willing to fuck with an infant that can nuke your ass??? If you answered, yes... what kind of a fucking idiot are you???

JordyWordy

Cosmo wrote:

Isn't Israel the only nation in the Middle East that possesses both Nuclear warheads and tested delivery systems?
I have asked this before... why should America bomb (*insert Arab/Persian threat du jour here*) if said Arab nation bombs Israel? Shouldn't ISRAEL bomb them? Are we Israel's bodyguard? If so... WHY do they need nukes?
israel is all grown up now and has gotten pretty tough. Why do Americans theat them like some tiny infant? They have fucking nukes!!! Are you willing to fuck with an infant that can nuke your ass??? If you answered, yes... what kind of a fucking idiot are you???

hehe, nice analogy. thats the way ive always seen Israel - very much a force to be reckoned with - so when i was younger and started seeing American coverage of Israel always mystified me, cos it presented me with a very different, more unrealistic Israel!

i think another analogy is the North of Ireland. Simply removing people from an area of land and claiming its yours does not work and has never worked peacefully anywhere on earth. they both have as much right to be there, and theyre both bombing the shit out of each other

but Israel like Rhino said, are massively resourced and powerful, so i dont see the need to act the victim all the time? just pisses me off