Why Do Athiests

soulsinging

Scubascott wrote:

Don't worry we have plenty of other reasons to laugh at you too.

Not that Australia is much better when it comes to gay rights, but here I don't think it has as much to do with Christian opposition. It is involved certainly, but the christian lobby groups don't hold anywhere near as much sway here as they do in the US, and still gay marriages have not been legalised. The ACT passed a law allowing gay civil unions and it was swiftly overturned by our conservative fuckwad of a prime minister. That was the last straw for me. There's no way he's getting any vote of mine. I'm fed up with his meddling in people's lives. Go and live in your own little alternate reality with your 50's family values Johnny. We don't want it here.

ill be damned! this is the proof cornnifer's been looking for! first time i have EVER heard about anti-gay actions not in the name of christianity.

Scubascott

soulsinging wrote:

ill be damned! this is the proof cornnifer's been looking for! first time i have EVER heard about anti-gay actions not in the name of christianity.

Not explicitly in the name of christianity, but still in the name of 'family values'. Same shit as far as I'm concerned. Just a different bucket.

I think its a bit more complicated here. Its not a black and white case of noisy christians vs everyone else. We're a very secular country generally speaking, but our concepts of family values etc no doubt have their roots in christianity, as do many of the ridiculous predjudices that many people hold. I think a lot of Australians probably harbour some kind of homophobic sentiment even though they've never set foot in church, and the mere fact that watching men kiss makes them uncomfortable is enough for them to side with the anti-gay marriage campaigners, even if they don't give a rat's arse about their christian ideals. And politicians are politicians (ie a pack of spineless snivelling cowards), so they just try to stay safe and stick with what they feel the general sentiment in the public is. No sense losing votes just to please a small minority group. We still have idiotic christian lobby groups that protest these things, but they're mostly seen as part of the lunatic fringe, and I don't think mainstream Australia really pays a great deal of attention to them.

Personally, I find it extremely uncomfortable being in close proximity to public displays of gay affection (except women, then its hot). But that's my problem, not theirs. I don't feel I have any right to tell them how to live their lives.

catefrances

Scubascott wrote:

Personally, I find it extremely uncomfortable being in close proximity to public displays of gay affection (except women, then its hot). But that's my problem, not theirs. I don't feel I have any right to tell them how to live their lives.

scott scott scott. unless you're kidding that strikes me as kinda hypocritical or something

why do you feel uncomfortable being near gay displays of affection?

Scubascott

catefrances wrote:

scott scott scott. unless you're kidding that strikes me as kinda hypocritical or something

why do you feel uncomfortable being near gay displays of affection?

I don't know. I'm just being honest. I think most straight guys would tell you the same thing. I guess its just social conditioning or something. I don't particularly like overt straight public displays of affection either. The point is that I realise that its my problem, not theirs, and I don't have any right to tell them that they can't get married just because it makes me uncomfortable.

Its like the Southpark episode about the museum of tolerance. Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean that you have to pretend to like it.

sicnevol

Scubascott wrote:

I don't know. I'm just being honest. I think most straight guys would tell you the same thing. I guess its just social conditioning or something. I don't particularly like overt straight public displays of affection either. The point is that I realise that its my problem, not theirs, and I don't have any right to tell them that they can't get married just because it makes me uncomfortable.

Its like the Southpark episode about the museum of tolerance. Just because you tolerate something doesn't mean that you have to pretend to like it.

thanks for the honesty. If you ever get the chance ask a gay guy what he thinks about kissing a girl. All the ones I know say its gross....

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

becos anti-homosexuals do interfere with the others' lives. i've never heard of a gay man trying to talk your christian child into going the other way. but i've heard plenty about people trying to outlaw gay rights.

what are you? the savior for homosexuals? how is your argument going to make it any better.

my point is, both sides should stop pointing the fingers and calling it on each other. it will never go anywhere. how hard is that?

catefrances

sicnevol wrote:

thanks for the honesty. If you ever get the chance ask a gay guy what he thinks about kissing a girl. All the ones I know say its gross....

i've kissed a girl and i didnt think it was gross. then again im not a gay guy.

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

what are you? the savior for homosexuals? how is your argument going to make it any better.

my point is, both sides should stop pointing the fingers and calling it on each other. it will never go anywhere. how hard is that?

becos my point is one side HAS to point fingers or else they are going to end up having their rights stripped from them and be marginalized by vindictive legislation while they sit by in silence out of some inane effort not to argue. they're on the defensive. if the other side quit, they'd be happy to quit. but they're not quitting until they are SAFE. and until you can guarantee that, it's not going to stop. if the anti-gay people stopped pushing for laws, then they'd stop fighting back. but if gay people just shut up and keep quiet becos you're annoyed by their arguments, the anti-gay people will have a field day with a whole new round of jim crow laws for their new favorite hated minority.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

becos my point is one side HAS to point fingers or else they are going to end up having their rights stripped from them and be marginalized by vindictive legislation while they sit by in silence out of some inane effort not to argue. they're on the defensive. if the other side quit, they'd be happy to quit. but they're not quitting until they are SAFE. and until you can guarantee that, it's not going to stop.

well, maybe they should learn from ghandi, mlk, or something...

catefrances

onelongsong wrote:

why do athiests have so much anger toward those of religion? religious threads here turn into athiest trying to prove those of religion are wrong. why? where does this anger come from. if you tell someone of religion that you are athiest; they feel sorry for you and maybe pray for you; which is an act of compassion to them. yet athiests can't wait to jump on someone trying to prove they're wrong. they disrespect that person and thier beliefs. are these the attributes of a "good" person?

as a misanthrope, my anger is directed at people in general. i'd be happy if the lot of you stayed awaay from me. and please don't pray for me cause that pisses me off.

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

well, maybe they should learn from ghandi, mlk, or something...

last i checked, mlk did NOT shut up and keep quiet. last i heard, he was always VERY outspoken about the unjust treatment. as i recall, he wrote this one piece called "letter from a birmingham jail." now, i know you probly didn't read it cos it hurt your poor wittle christian feelings, but it essentially REAMED christians for standing by in silence while this oppression went on. so the LAST thing mlk would be advocating is "don't you homos dare say anything negative about the church guys! you can never question the motives or methods of christians!"

norm

catefrances wrote:

as a misanthrope, my anger is directed at people in general. i'd be happy if the lot of you stayed awaay from me. and please don't pray for me cause that pisses me off.

i knew i liked you............:):)

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

last i checked, mlk did NOT shut up and keep quiet. last i heard, he was always VERY outspoken about the unjust treatment. as i recall, he wrote this one piece called "letter from a birmingham jail." now, i know you probly didn't read it cos it hurt your poor wittle christian feelings, but it essentially REAMED christians for standing by in silence while this oppression went on. so the LAST thing mlk would be advocating is "don't you homos dare say anything negative about the church guys! you can never question the motives or methods of christians!"

no offense dude... but you're retarded, man. i'm not dogging gays here. i don't go preaching to homosexuals and telling them they need to repent. i'm not doing either of that dude. where'd you get the idea that's what i'm doing?

i work with a lesbian. her and i work very well together. she knows i go to church and i believe in god and all of this. but you never here us arguing at how we should change each others lifestyles. instead we're making jokes at each other and i ask her what kinds of girls she's into and she asks me the same. of course, i tease her a little bit but i don't dog on her. there's a difference between standing up for yourself and just trying to pick on argument with others for disagreeing with you. and that's exactly what goes on on these boards. if there is anything that i am advocating here is just that. learn to communicate dude. learn how to speak in love and fellowship. and if not well what the hell, i'm wasting my time.

catefrances

cutback wrote:

i knew i liked you............:):)

just so long as you like me from afar.

norm

catefrances wrote:

just so long as you like me from afar.

hehehehehe........exactly...........:D:D

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

no offense dude... but you're retarded, man. i'm not dogging gays here. i don't go preaching to homosexuals and telling them they need to repent. i'm not doing either of that dude. where'd you get the idea that's what i'm doing?

i work with a lesbian. her and i work very well together. she knows i go to church and i believe in god and all of this. but you never here us arguing at how we should change each others lifestyles. instead we're making jokes at each other and i ask her what kinds of girls she's into and she asks me the same. of course, i tease her a little bit but i don't dog on her. there's a difference between standing up for yourself and just trying to pick on argument with others for disagreeing with you. and that's exactly what goes on on these boards. if there is anything that i am advocating here is just that. learn to communicate dude. learn how to speak in love and fellowship. and if not well what the hell, i'm wasting my time.

i love how every person who thinks homosexuality is a sin is so quick to talk about their one gay friend and how they don't hate or judge. im glad you get along with her dude, but the point is, a LOT of your fellows do not. a LOT of your fellow aren't joking, they're out there trying to pass laws to strip your coworker of her humanity. so i dont blame people for being defensive in the face of that kind of antagonism. and it all starts when someone believes they have a stranglehold on morality, which is why your morality is so often challenged. becos the first step is to show those people that there are other ways for people to live and it is none of their business how others live.

there is a world of difference between saying "i believe homosexuality is immoral and so i will not engage in homosexuality" and saying "i believe homosexuality is immoral and nobody should engage in homosexuality and i will do my darndest to make sure nobody else does." that is a problem. again, if you're not one of them, cool. but if you're going to speak their rhetoric (homos are sinning) then don't act surprised when people get offended and fight back.

Scubascott

catefrances wrote:

i've kissed a girl and i didnt think it was gross. then again im not a gay guy.

Girls kissing girls is awesome. Everybody knows that.

catefrances

Scubascott wrote:

Girls kissing girls is awesome. Everybody knows that.

even more so when youre doing it scott. it's a whole other thing.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

the first step is to show those people that there are other ways for people to live and it is none of their business how others live.

there is a world of difference between saying "i believe homosexuality is immoral and so i will not engage in homosexuality"

first of all, those are not my people. i don't judge people. so people that judge others are not my people. i've never judged them. if i believe homosexuality is a sin or not is not anybody else's concerns. i don't force it onto others. so in this case, don't direct this conversation at me.

i'm looking at it from a third person perspective. so i only included two lines above because that's basically what i'm saying here. don't go any further and trying to take another step at arguing and what not.... just for the sake of, i don't know, arguing maybe. i hate arguing. especially when it comes about my beliefs. i hold them sacred and only to me. the only times i've shared my views is when people ask me or when someone makes a certain comment that peeks my interest. but this out of the box. you could've just looked at my comment and seen it from a third person perspective. instead you took it hostile and kind of with an "attitude" only because of prior conversations that you and i have had. so, snap out of it now. or else i will have to slap the crap out of you. and trust me i am good at that. my father was a big mean mexican thuggish fellow (kinda like benicio del toro in traffic) and i have relatives that are in the mafia.... so trust me. i will slap you if i have to. j/k

i'm not debating against homosexuality. i'm debating against arguments and hostility.

Scubascott

catefrances wrote:

even more so when youre doing it scott. it's a whole other thing.

Damn you! How am I supposed to concentrate on my work with this kind of talk going on? Makes me yearn for my drunken years living in college. . . .