Why Do Athiests

hippiemom

soulsinging wrote:

just as many people think environmentalists are crazy becos of PETA, christianity gets a bad rep becos of fred phelps. what are you so pissed off about? this is how it works and always has.

I can't begin to count how many times I've heard "Oh, so are you one of those PETA people?" when someone finds out I'm a vegetarian. It does piss me off, but it's PETA I'm pissed at, not the people who are responding to the most publicly recognizable vegetarians. I think that cornnifer's anger is misplaced, it's his fellow Christians he should be ticked off at.

soulsinging

hippiemom wrote:

I can't begin to count how many times I've heard "Oh, so are you one of those PETA people?" when someone finds out I'm a vegetarian. It does piss me off, but it's PETA I'm pissed at, not the people who are responding to the most publicly recognizable vegetarians. I think that cornnifer's anger is misplaced, it's his fellow Christians he should be ticked off at.

that's what i was trying to get at. he should be pissed off at the people making his fatih look bad, not at the people who are quite reasonably appalled at the behavior they see.

know1

Obviously I'm very religious and I think it's silly to oppose gay marriage for religious reasons. Being religious is currently NOT a requirement for getting married so it's hypocritical to ban a group of people from getting married for reasons based in religion.

Cosmo

Uncle Leo wrote:

"other abominations" acknowledges it as an abomination, like with eating shellfish, an oft-use biblical term.

...
Leviticus 11:10: "And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you"
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I guess I'm going to Hell because of that Lobster Bisque I had last week.
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but... man, was it gooooood.

onelongsong

Uncle Leo wrote:

"other abominations" acknowledges it as an abomination, like with eating shellfish, an oft-use biblical term.

to some it is. don't get your shorts in a bunch. everyone has the right to thier own opinions and thier own feelings. you're awful close to acknowledging that you want to control how i feel.
to me the word is a word. i don't care where it originated and i believe the word was in use long before the bible was written in 2 ad.

callen

soulsinging wrote:

it's an estimation from my experience speaking to people who oppose gay marriage, people who voted for th ohio ban, and every news article i've ever read that discussed the issue. i have yet to hear anything by anyone who opposed gay marriage for any reason other than religion.

so would bet 95% is pretty accurate for those in the US.

Cosmo

onelongsong wrote:

to some it is. don't get your shorts in a bunch. everyone has the right to thier own opinions and thier own feelings. you're awful close to acknowledging that you want to control how i feel.
to me the word is a word. i don't care where it originated and i believe the word was in use long before the bible was written in 2 ad.

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2 A.D? You know... that is two years after Jesus was born, right?

onelongsong

Cosmo wrote:

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2 A.D? You know... that is two years after Jesus was born, right?

Jesus was born april 17th 6 bc by our calender. but yes; i made a mistake. it was suppose to read
2nd century ad.

soulsinging

Cosmo wrote:

...
2 A.D? You know... that is two years after Jesus was born, right?

woulda been pretty hard for jesus to be a jew if the book judaism was based upon wasn't even written until after his birth... ah, typo, nevermind!

Cosmo

soulsinging wrote:

woulda been pretty hard for jesus to be a jew if the book judaism was based upon wasn't even written until after his birth...

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I thought maybe Jesus wrote the Bible at age 2.
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I guess I need to go to chuch more.

soulsinging

Cosmo wrote:

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I thought maybe Jesus wrote the Bible at age 2.
...
I guess I need to go to chuch more.

well, they always did say he was quite the gifted child. spen an afternoon schooling the elders, he did. then he grinned down a bear and planted apple trees all across the desert... or maybe im getting my tall tales mixed up?

cornnifer

hippiemom wrote:

I think that cornnifer's anger is misplaced, it's his fellow Christians he should be ticked off at.

Here's the funny thing. i'm not angry. Also, i have publicly, here as well as other places, chastised alleged Christians for their pathetic demonstrations. None of that excuses the fact that some folks here are full of shit with their "forcing your beliefs, 95 %, i read a newspaper article one time, Fred Phelps" nonsense. They are stereotyping. Plain and simple. Stereotyping and rationalizing their hatred and prejudice with statements that simply do not hold water. i'm simply pointing out holes in the argument.

soulsinging

cornnifer wrote:

Here's the funny thing. i'm not angry. Also, i have publicly, here as well as other places, chastised alleged Christians for their pathetic demonstrations. None of that excuses the fact that some folks here are full of shit with their "forcing your beliefs, 95 %, i read a newspaper article one time, Fred Phelps" nonsense. They are stereotyping. Plain and simple. Stereotyping and rationalizing their hatred and prejudice with statements that simply do not hold water. i'm simply pointing out holes in the argument.

but there are no holes. im not talking about one newspaper article i read one time. im talking about EVERY SINGLE article i ever read (dozens, if not hundreds) and not one ever mentioned secular opposition to gay marriage. im not just talking about fred phelps, im adding robertson, jenkins, im adding my neighbors, friends i have back in ohio, people passing out flyers and leaflets near election day, people on the campaign trail, etc. every single one of them... christian. point me to anything... ANYTHING that discusses an organized secular movement to ban gay marriage.

regardless, this does not change my ultimate point, that it does not matter WHO is talking about banning gay marriage... it is unconstitutional. i notice you still have no response to that argument. my point about christians is to explain to you why they bear the brunt of the abuse by people angry about the movement's drive to pass unconstitutional legislation... becos they are the prime driving force of the movement. again, i challenge you to show me anything that discusses the strong secular anti-gay movement. im really curious.

cornnifer

soulsinging wrote:

but there are no holes. im not talking about one newspaper article i read one time. im talking about EVERY SINGLE article i ever read (dozens, if not hundreds) and not one ever mentioned secular opposition to gay marriage. im not just talking about fred phelps, im adding robertson, jenkins, im adding my neighbors, friends i have back in ohio, people passing out flyers and leaflets near election day, people on the campaign trail, etc. every single one of them... christian. point me to anything... ANYTHING that discusses an organized secular movement to ban gay marriage.

regardless, this does not change my ultimate point, that it does not matter WHO is talking about banning gay marriage... it is unconstitutional. i notice you still have no response to that argument. my point about christians is to explain to you why they bear the brunt of the abuse by people angry about the movement's drive to pass unconstitutional legislation... becos they are the prime driving force of the movement. again, i challenge you to show me anything that discusses the strong secular anti-gay movement. im really curious.

Strong secular movement? Point me to a strong secular movement for anything? When it becomes a movement, it ceases to be secular. If you cant take off the blinders long enough to admit that GM opposition comes from more than just the Christian right, then oh, well. Good luck with that. "Average Joe opposes gay-marriage" is not a headline that would sell many papers. Come to the neighborhood i grew up in and talk to some folks, many of which have never touched a Bible save when swearing on it court have never been inside a church and have no faith whatsoever, and ask them about gay-marriage. Put down the newspaper, turn off the television (or at least turn it from the 700 club) and step out into the real world, the one that exists outside of this fucking board and your little neighborhood.
Sad thing is, i used to kind of like you, but, watching you being cosumed by ignorance based hatred and prejudice is kind of like watching Anakin Skywalker transforming into Darth Vader. Sad indeed.

Cosmo

cornnifer wrote:

Here's the funny thing. i'm not angry. Also, i have publicly, here as well as other places, chastised alleged Christians for their pathetic demonstrations. None of that excuses the fact that some folks here are full of shit with their "forcing your beliefs, 95 %, i read a newspaper article one time, Fred Phelps" nonsense. They are stereotyping. Plain and simple. Stereotyping and rationalizing their hatred and prejudice with statements that simply do not hold water. i'm simply pointing out holes in the argument.

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Try this yourself... ask people if they are against Gay Marriages. If they are, ask them why. Don't accept "Because it's wrong" or "Because it's sick" as a valid answer... why is it wrong or sick? I'm guessing that more time than not, they will invoke the Bible and/or God as their reasoning. Ask 100 people and see if 95 of them respnd this way. Are they Christians? Who knows, who cares? The thing you want to see is whether or not it is true, right?

soulsinging

cornnifer wrote:

Strong secular movement? Point me to a strong secular movement for anything? When it becomes a movement, it ceases to be secular. If you cant take off the blinders long enough to admit that GM opposition comes from more than just the Christian right, then oh, well. Good luck with that. "Average Joe opposes gay-marriage" is not a headline that would sell many papers. Come to the neighborhood i grew up in and talk to some folks, many of which have never touched a Bible save when swearing on it court have never been inside a church and have no faith whatsoever, and ask them about gay-marriage. Put down the newspaper, turn off the television (or at least turn it from the 700 club) and step out into the real world, the one that exists outside of this fucking board and your little neighborhood.
Sad thing is, i used to kind of like you, but, watching you being cosumed by ignorance based hatred and prejudice is kind of like watching Anakin Skywalker transforming into Darth Vader. Sad indeed.

show me where i said that christians are the only ones opposed to gay marriage? i have never said anything like that. i just said the momentum of the anti-gay movement comes from christians. it's not like abortion where the lines are far more muddled.

the real world? my tiny neighborhood? i live in chicago dude. i grew up in suburbs and big cities in ohio. i've met plenty of people of all stripes and i stand by my statements. i've yet to hear a single person tell me it is very important that gays not get married unless they are christian. that's just the way it is. ditto for the newspapers. if my real world interactions and real world newspapers aren't "real" enough, where am i supposed to get my reality chief? by coming to YOUR tiny trailer park and asking your neighbors?

i have no hatred for christians. but i am greatly annoyed at anyone i perceive to be acting an idiot and i state it strongly. ask che, the left wing revolutionary, how he feels about me. ask el kabong what he thinks of my reaming him for his 9/11 conspiracy theories. i just have forceful opinions and one of them happens to be that much of christian politics is fucking ridiculous. i hate everyone equally, quit acting like you're some sort of martyr or im waging some sort of holy war. i dont give a damn what religion you are. but if you give me your politics you damn well better have more backing them up than the bible or a michael moore movie.

deadnothingbetter

the way i'm beginning to see it is, why argue? if this debate has been going since i first signed on which was back in '03. technically this debate has gone on for centuries, maybe. what makes either side think they'll come into agreement? let homosexuals live their lifestyles. let anti-homosexuals live their lifestyles, without interfering others lives.

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

the way i'm beginning to see it is, why argue? if this debate has been going since i first signed on which was back in '03. technically this debate has gone on for centuries, maybe. what makes either side think they'll come into agreement? let homosexuals live their lifestyles. let anti-homosexuals live their lifestyles, without interfering others lives.

becos anti-homosexuals do interfere with the others' lives. i've never heard of a gay man trying to talk your christian child into going the other way. but i've heard plenty about people trying to outlaw gay rights.

sicnevol

soulsinging wrote:

becos anti-homosexuals do interfere with the others' lives. i've never heard of a gay man trying to talk your christian child into going the other way. but i've heard plenty about people trying to outlaw gay rights.

i love you for that one.


if you attempt to pass a law grounded in christian teachings, IE anti-gay, then you are not letting the other people go there own way. You are attempting to force your way onto them....


You do know that most other countries are laughing at us because of this, right?

Scubascott

sicnevol wrote:

i love you for that one.


if you attempt to pass a law grounded in christian teachings, IE anti-gay, then you are not letting the other people go there own way. You are attempting to force your way onto them....


You do know that most other countries are laughing at us because of this, right?

Don't worry we have plenty of other reasons to laugh at you too.

Not that Australia is much better when it comes to gay rights, but here I don't think it has as much to do with Christian opposition. It is involved certainly, but the christian lobby groups don't hold anywhere near as much sway here as they do in the US, and still gay marriages have not been legalised. The ACT passed a law allowing gay civil unions and it was swiftly overturned by our conservative fuckwad of a prime minister. That was the last straw for me. There's no way he's getting any vote of mine. I'm fed up with his meddling in people's lives. Go and live in your own little alternate reality with your 50's family values Johnny. We don't want it here.