the problems with studies is the controls. they don't leave room for the unexplained. i can also set my controls to get the result i'm looking for. every day i see a commercial for some attorney with a class action lawsuit looking for people that were given medications and died or were seriously injured by a medication. thier STUDIES and testing showed no harmful effects. the studies were obviously slanted.
i have a client that ate only my buffalo meat (in place of other meats) for 10 months now. he's cured of lung cancer and i can write that study several ways. i can write it so it looks like it was the buffalo meat. i can also write it to show it was the change in diet. it could also be the clean air of the mountains (he moved here from CA).
get the idea?
Exactly and YOUR study of giving some blessed water is slanted just as much as anyone's study.
Edit: But that's why you get a handful of studies (Like 17) and compare them against each other.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Well if you buy the results of 17 such studies, it actually has adverse affects on the patient. But again these aren't extreme effects. Simply telling someone that you will pray for them, statistically causes slightly more difficulty, but either way it's nothing to get excited about.
in the normal world; saying you'll pray for someone; is telling them you love them. it is the combined love that helps the sick. you seem to fight harder for life when you're loved by a lot of people.
Right, because they are self-focused and ignore objective reality.
But you don't right? There's nothing self focused about you at all?
And you don't ignore that objective reality that a lot of people do not hold your views?
If I give you some regular water and say "by the light of God let ye be healed" then 3 months later you are ok, who the fuck knows that the water healed you? If you die anyway, then you won't know the difference and I can just say "It wasn't in God's will". All of this bullshit is designed to convince you that it's God's will when it has nothing to do with it. It's just that you don't see the trickery.
If you gave me anything I would be instantly suspicious because I doubt your intentions. So there's not really anything that I could see myself accepting from you should I become terminally ill.
Just as I WILL CHOOSE MY PATH through life and death. And I respect that others also have this CHOICE.
i gave some water from lourdes shrine to an old man dying of cancer. the doctors gave him 2 weeks but he lived another 15 years and died cancer free.
i did the same with my mother and sister and they survived cancer. faith has cured more people because of mindset. why deny people of this? when someone feels helpless seeing a friend suffer; sometimes all they have is prayer to fill the void. born agains get on my nerves with thier "holier than thou" attitudes too. but if you're in pain; and i truely want to help you but there's nothing i can do about it; why deny me my only way to show how much you mean to me?
...
Okay... don't take this the wrong way, but... I gotta call 'Bullshit' on this one. If it were true... it would truely qualify as a miracle... and at LEAST, be newsworthy. There would be SOME written record available for public... if not, you are letting millions of people worldwide, die from cancer. It the cure for cancer is in the water from Lourdes... then, cancer victims need it.
I do voluenteer work with both the Avon Walk (Los Angeles/Beaches) and the Susan G. Komen Foundation and there are thousands of mothers, daughters, sisters, aunts, nieces, cousins, friends and co-workers that suffer from and die from Breast Cancer in America alone. And I'm sure that 99.99999% of them get prayers from 99.9999999% of their friends and families... yet, they die. if ONE on them survived from prayer alone... not the chemo and mastectomies and other medical treatments... we would have heard from her.
Sorry.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Gee, how simple. So we should all just take your word as law because well everybody knows what a superior intellect you. **sigh** Well I don't know about everyone else, but I feel SOOO much better knowing you are here to be our moral and mental compass.
I really don't care what you experience. Aliens, Loch Ness Monster, OBE, NDE, Bigfoot/Sasquatch, etc.. it's all subjective claims, it's crapola, means nothing, it's pointless to bring these claims to a debate because you can't prove them.
So I should take the rantings of an egotistical, frustrated poster over ALL the other posts from a variety of viewpoints?
Hmmm..............how silly of me not to see the light?
Sorry your Magnificence, I didn't realize who I was dealing with.
Forgive my ignorance.
Yes, I don't know that I'd want to play with too many "Born Agains". :eek:
I guess I have no problem with people holding religious beliefs and I don't even mind discussing them with some people. Depends on the person I suppose. I've got quite a few friends of different religions and we seem to negotiate our friendship without our core beliefs being too much of an issue.
I guess anybody being "fervent" upsets me. So that would apply to religious fervour as well as an Amway salesmen!! Anybody that isn't being respectful of me or my beliefs.
...
Well, you know... I'm pretty much a live and let live kinda guy. If someone believes in whatever faith... i say, "Great!". It works for you and you're happy... I'm happy. i don't expect anyone to adhere to my beliefs because I know that my beliefs are both... mine... and belief. It isn't the truth, so it does not apply to anyone else. And in the same manner... your faith is yours... not mine. And it is faith, not truth. Therefore, your faith does not necessarily apply to me. But, it works for you and I am glad it does.
I hope we all find the path to lead us to what we seek. The journey is our own... and who knows... maybe they all lead to the same destination. None of us will know until we get there. So, have a peaceful journey... that's what i say.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
btw Jeanie, I have a theory that supports evidence, not the other way around.
It's not ironic, I am a robot, but I'm not blindly following the doctrine of some ancient sun worshippers. I'm a free-thinker, I take in knowledge, perform rational deliberations on it and output ideas.
For example, I can say "Well there are 1500 species that have homosexuality in it and decent theories as to why that might be." why should I deny that or think like "Homosexuality is a choice, it's a sin, burn all the fags."
Well actually that's debatable. You have a theory that is based on the evidence you have found to support your theory.
Actually Ryan, you are not a robot, you are a human being.
Robots are electronic beings made by humans. They do not breathe, they do not think, they do not feel. They do exactly what they are programmed to do.
You take in the knowledge that you are slanted to take in and you filter it through your personal experience and you rationalize your deliberations just like everybody else. It's a very HUMAN thing to do. A robot would not have these rationalizations.
How did homosexuality come into this?
I'm still trying to work out why you think prayer and meditation are the same thing.
Well if you buy the results of 17 such studies, it actually has adverse affects on the patient. But again these aren't extreme effects. Simply telling someone that you will pray for them, statistically causes slightly more difficulty, but either way it's nothing to get excited about.
Depends on the study doesn't it Ahnimus? As I've mentioned before, it's well worth knowing who did the study and any bias they may have before we accept the results as gospel, so to speak.
Frankly when you are ill, you don't really care so much what the people around you are doing in their inner world. You really don't have the energy to be "policing" the thoughts of those around you. You have your own to deal with. I'm quite sure that should you become seriously ill that the people around you know your views on prayer and religion and they won't be telling you that they will pray for you. But how they cope with the emotional fall out of your illness really is up to them. And I can't see you having the energy or the inclination to be debating with them about what you deem is the appropriate way for them to cope.
...
Okay... don't take this the wrong way, but... I gotta call 'Bullshit' on this one. If it were true... it would truely qualify as a miracle... and at LEAST, be newsworthy. There would be SOME written record available for public... if not, you are letting millions of people worldwide, die from cancer. It the cure for cancer is in the water from Lourdes... then, cancer victims need it.
I do voluenteer work with both the Avon Walk (Los Angeles/Beaches) and the Susan G. Komen Foundation and there are thousands of mothers, daughters, sisters, aunts, nieces, cousins, friends and co-workers that suffer from and die from Breast Cancer in America alone. And I'm sure that 99.99999% of them get prayers from 99.9999999% of their friends and families... yet, they die. if ONE on them survived from prayer alone... not the chemo and mastectomies and other medical treatments... we would have heard from her.
Sorry.
similar cases were discussed in the american medical journal. i believe december 2005. doctors are prescribing patients to eat buffalo meat all over the country. researchers are trying to isolate the compound that destroys the cancer. thanks to the chemical companies; you cannot claim a cure until you can precisely measure dosage. that's the law. so until the compound is isolated; and an exact dosage can be established; millions will die from cancer. this is why natural products cannot be advertised and medicines.
here's a breast cancer study you may be interested in. sorry to those who've already seen it.
CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) is a cancer-fighting fat that is most abundant in grassfed products. Two new European studies link a diet high in CLA with a lower risk of breast cancer. In Finland, researchers measured CLA levels in the serum of women with and without breast cancer. Those women with the most CLA had a significantly lower risk of the disease. Meanwhile, French researchers measured CLA levels in the breast tissues of 360 women. Once again, the women with the most CLA had the lowest risk of cancer. In fact, the women with the most CLA had a staggering 74% lower risk of breast cancer than the women with the least CLA.
The most natural and effective way to increase your intake of CLA is to eat the meat and dairy products of grassfed animals.
A. Aro et al, Kuopio University, Finland; Bougnoux, P, Lavillonniere F, Riboli E. "Inverse relation between CLA in adipose breast tissue and risk of breast cancer. A case-control study in France." Inform 10;5:S43, 1999
...
Okay... don't take this the wrong way, but... I gotta call 'Bullshit' on this one. If it were true... it would truely qualify as a miracle... and at LEAST, be newsworthy. There would be SOME written record available for public... if not, you are letting millions of people worldwide, die from cancer. It the cure for cancer is in the water from Lourdes... then, cancer victims need it.
I do voluenteer work with both the Avon Walk (Los Angeles/Beaches) and the Susan G. Komen Foundation and there are thousands of mothers, daughters, sisters, aunts, nieces, cousins, friends and co-workers that suffer from and die from Breast Cancer in America alone. And I'm sure that 99.99999% of them get prayers from 99.9999999% of their friends and families... yet, they die. if ONE on them survived from prayer alone... not the chemo and mastectomies and other medical treatments... we would have heard from her.
Sorry.
i think the answer is faith. it's not the water that holds the power but faith alone. prayer is only evidence for your fervent faith... anyways, not that i care. i'm not really sure if the water story is true indeed.
i've never seen a miracle myself. i do believe in them though. but i think if someone has a miracle like a friend of mine who was almost stabbed to death... he crawled himself in the middle of the night 3 blocks away to his home till he could get someone to rescue him. they punctured his lungs, stabbed him on the side of the forehead, around the neck, around the stomache... geez they stabbed him in any other place you could think of. it took him 45 min to get to his house till they could call an ambulance. he doesn't remember much afterwards... just dreams. now he's alive and doing well. that's a miracle to me.
or like my mother... she had about 20 tumors in her head. she suffered from epilepsy because of that. for nearly 3 years, the doctors said she wouldn't make it. my father got scared, so that's when he started going to church. when she had her first visit in church she had an experience... call it what you will or call it the way Ahnimus explains it, it doesn't matter. but the next week when she had her doctor's appointment they were all freaked out that the tumors were all gone. not unless of course, my parents are lying to me.... although they've never lied.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
...
Well, you know... I'm pretty much a live and let live kinda guy. If someone believes in whatever faith... i say, "Great!". It works for you and you're happy... I'm happy. i don't expect anyone to adhere to my beliefs because I know that my beliefs are both... mine... and belief. It isn't the truth, so it does not apply to anyone else. And in the same manner... your faith is yours... not mine. And it is faith, not truth. Therefore, your faith does not necessarily apply to me. But, it works for you and I am glad it does.
I hope we all find the path to lead us to what we seek. The journey is our own... and who knows... maybe they all lead to the same destination. None of us will know until we get there. So, have a peaceful journey... that's what i say.
Very nicely said Cosmo.
That's pretty much my view on it all too. I think accepting other people regardless of our differences is a difficult thing to do but something we could all benefit from. And peace and love are always good things to take into the world. And hopefully out of it too.
Gee, how simple. So we should all just take your word as law because well everybody knows what a superior intellect you. **sigh** Well I don't know about everyone else, but I feel SOOO much better knowing you are here to be our moral and mental compass.
So I should take the rantings of an egotistical, frustrated poster over ALL the other posts from a variety of viewpoints?
Hmmm..............how silly of me not to see the light?
Sorry your Magnificence, I didn't realize who I was dealing with.
Forgive my ignorance.
No one is smarter than you are Jeanie, they just have different knowledge.
I happen to spend my time learning about such things instead of learning about automobiles, and consequently I know nothing about cars.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Depends on the study doesn't it Ahnimus? As I've mentioned before, it's well worth knowing who did the study and any bias they may have before we accept the results as gospel, so to speak.
Frankly when you are ill, you don't really care so much what the people around you are doing in their inner world. You really don't have the energy to be "policing" the thoughts of those around you. You have your own to deal with. I'm quite sure that should you become seriously ill that the people around you know your views on prayer and religion and they won't be telling you that they will pray for you. But how they cope with the emotional fall out of your illness really is up to them. And I can't see you having the energy or the inclination to be debating with them about what you deem is the appropriate way for them to cope.
How do you know how I would think if I was ill? Based on your own personal experiences. That's the same old song Jeanie. It means sweet fuck all to me.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
what doctrines am i advocating that are not peaceful? what am i advocating that is so reminiscent of malcolm x?
malcolm x philosophy was to fight with the same weapons that their oppositions used against them. i used doctrine for the lack of a better term... i knew you'd mention it. i'm not saying they're not peaceful but what you say makes it sound like if christians were to have war against homosexuals then homosexuals will fight with war as well. i don't know, i don't care. whatever dude. you are so predictable ss
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
i think the answer is faith. it's not the water that holds the power but faith alone. prayer is only evidence for your fervent faith... anyways, not that i care. i'm not really sure if the water story is true indeed.
i've never seen a miracle myself. i do believe in them though. but i think if someone has a miracle like a friend of mine who was almost stabbed to death... he crawled himself in the middle of the night 3 blocks away to his home till he could get someone to rescue him. they punctured his lungs, stabbed him on the side of the forehead, around the neck, around the stomache... geez they stabbed him in any other place you could think of. it took him 45 min to get to his house till they could call an ambulance. he doesn't remember much afterwards... just dreams. now he's alive and doing well. that's a miracle to me.
or like my mother... she had about 20 tumors in her head. she suffered from epilepsy because of that. for nearly 3 years, the doctors said she wouldn't make it. my father got scared, so that's when he started going to church. when she had her first visit in church she had an experience... call it what you will or call it the way Ahnimus explains it, it doesn't matter. but the next week when she had her doctor's appointment they were all freaked out that the tumors were all gone. not unless of course, my parents are lying to me.... although they've never lied.
...
Great. I'm glad it all turned out for the better.
But, what does it say about the thousands of others who die... is their faith not as strong? And as for the power of faith by others... those miners in Virginia had the prayers of the entire nation working for them... and what happened? They all died. Was it because i didn't pray for them?
I am not trying to debunk your examples... I do believe that miracles do happen... but, they are anomalies, not the norm.
and trust me... no one wishes they could just believe more than me. Like a song my friend Jill sings,
...
I have a friend who swears she saw Jesus, Hovering above her lonely bed.
She said it changed her life forever, "Whatever works," I said.
I sit at home, changing channels, It's so hard to concentrate.
I laugh at her, but I'm pretty sure She's having a better day
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... I wanna see real tears and be sincere once before I die.
The other night I talked to an old flame, Who finally said why she moved on.
She said I didn't have faith in anything, I knew she wasn't wrong.
I saw two lovers in the park With that dreamy look of lust in their eyes.
The whole world smiled as they passed by... They just make me mad.
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... Take this jaded heart, blow it all apart, once before I...
I'll get down on my knees, something I don't believe...
Somebody help me, please, I'm starting to repeat myself... I'm starting to repeat...
So, I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
And I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry. I'd love to see a miracle once before I die...
Once before I die.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
im well aware that he was a christian. im also well aware that when his fellow christians were sitting on their asses turning a blind eye to the horrific abuses their parishioners were perpetrating against their fellow men, he stood up and called them on it, shouting at them to step up to the plate and live like jesus did. he did not keep quiet about their hypocrisy and injustice for the sake of avoiding an argument that might annoy his fellow christians who didnt want their guilt and complicity thrown back in their faces. he was a TRUE christian. maybe you and deadnothing are too... which is why i challenge YOU to act like mlk and start shaking up your fellows out of their hatred and oppression.
i do soulsigning, i do. but i do it in church where it belongs. i'm not in no way involved with politics because it goes against my beliefs. i used to "preach" in church for a little and would speak about how as christians (btw, i never really used the word "christian" cause i'm against the word but i'm using it here so you can understand it) we should not interfere with public relations. i don't support bush or the republicans. i don't support any of it cause it's all very mundaine and "unchristian". those things are completely against the teachings of jesus. i don't believe in war. i don't believe in the death penalty. i don't believe in the right to bare arms. but i'm not gonna go and advocate my beliefs in politics. that's why you never hear me speaking about politics on these boards... mainly, religion cause it fascinates me. and also so i could learn.
but i can sympathize with your beliefs... you will never see me standing in front of the texas state capital (which is where i live) raising up signs that say, "God hates fags" but i will never march with homosexuals either cause those are contrary to my beliefs as well. i mean, thank god for mlk and all. he served of great purpose for our nation, but he never advocated his own beliefs in protest against the oppressions of his people. if he did, i bet he would've never been successful.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
similar cases were discussed in the american medical journal. i believe december 2005. doctors are prescribing patients to eat buffalo meat all over the country. researchers are trying to isolate the compound that destroys the cancer. thanks to the chemical companies; you cannot claim a cure until you can precisely measure dosage. that's the law. so until the compound is isolated; and an exact dosage can be established; millions will die from cancer. this is why natural products cannot be advertised and medicines.
here's a breast cancer study you may be interested in. sorry to those who've already seen it.
CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) is a cancer-fighting fat that is most abundant in grassfed products. Two new European studies link a diet high in CLA with a lower risk of breast cancer. In Finland, researchers measured CLA levels in the serum of women with and without breast cancer. Those women with the most CLA had a significantly lower risk of the disease. Meanwhile, French researchers measured CLA levels in the breast tissues of 360 women. Once again, the women with the most CLA had the lowest risk of cancer. In fact, the women with the most CLA had a staggering 74% lower risk of breast cancer than the women with the least CLA.
The most natural and effective way to increase your intake of CLA is to eat the meat and dairy products of grassfed animals.
A. Aro et al, Kuopio University, Finland; Bougnoux, P, Lavillonniere F, Riboli E. "Inverse relation between CLA in adipose breast tissue and risk of breast cancer. A case-control study in France." Inform 10;5:S43, 1999
...
So, did you give the old man and your mom and sister water from Lourdes and prayer... or buffalo meat and grassfed milk... or water from Lourdes, prayer, buffalo meat and grassfed milk??
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Great. I'm glad it all turned out for the better.
But, what does it say about the thousands of others who die... is their faith not as strong? And as for the power of faith by others... those miners in Virginia had the prayers of the entire nation working for them... and what happened? They all died. Was it because i didn't pray for them?
I am not trying to debunk your examples... I do believe that miracles do happen... but, they are anomalies, not the norm.
and trust me... no one wishes they could just believe more than me. Like a song my friend Jill sings,
...
I have a friend who swears she saw Jesus, Hovering above her lonely bed.
She said it changed her life forever, "Whatever works," I said.
I sit at home, changing channels, It's so hard to concentrate.
I laugh at her, but I'm pretty sure She's having a better day
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... I wanna see real tears and be sincere once before I die.
The other night I talked to an old flame, Who finally said why she moved on.
She said I didn't have faith in anything, I knew she wasn't wrong.
I saw two lovers in the park With that dreamy look of lust in their eyes.
The whole world smiled as they passed by... They just make me mad.
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... Take this jaded heart, blow it all apart, once before I...
I'll get down on my knees, something I don't believe...
Somebody help me, please, I'm starting to repeat myself... I'm starting to repeat...
So, I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
And I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry. I'd love to see a miracle once before I die...
Once before I die.
well, the story of abraham goes that he believed in God's promises even though he never saw them. that is why he is considered to be the Father of faith. so take it from abraham, just because the prayers didn't come true doesn't mean they didn't have faith. i'm sure they did have faith... but the faith brought things that their minds didn't expect them to bring. kinda like a flaming lips song, Mr Ambulance Driver that says, "tell me for everyone that dies someone else is born." Life goes on and their faith is confirmed by their abilities to keep going in life. if the person is bitter for the outcome then the person didn't have faith.
besides it doesn't mean that i've never had loved one's die. i've had many of them pass away, just like that! yes, we prayed for them. at least hoping that there death would be peaceful. sometimes your moment just arrives.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Hi Cosmo.
Just if you could answer a couple of quick question please?
Do you have friends or family who are religious? And if so, do you find that as you care for them you are more likely to understand and accept their prayers in times of difficulty because you know that is a way for them to feel that they are helping you?
I'm just wondering.
hi jeanie,
i know i'm not cosmo but i feel the need to answer this question anyway. you know how i get girl.
i have friends and family who are religious, or who think they are anyway. they know that i am an atheist. what i would like from them is respect enough that they know how i would feel if i were aware they were praying for me. they know it would not be helping me. therefore i would assume, rightly or wrongly, that they would desist in 'wasting' their prayer on someone who believes they don't need saving nor the 'power' of prayer.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...
Great. I'm glad it all turned out for the better.
But, what does it say about the thousands of others who die... is their faith not as strong? And as for the power of faith by others... those miners in Virginia had the prayers of the entire nation working for them... and what happened? They all died. Was it because i didn't pray for them?
I am not trying to debunk your examples... I do believe that miracles do happen... but, they are anomalies, not the norm.
and trust me... no one wishes they could just believe more than me. Like a song my friend Jill sings,
...
I have a friend who swears she saw Jesus, Hovering above her lonely bed.
She said it changed her life forever, "Whatever works," I said.
I sit at home, changing channels, It's so hard to concentrate.
I laugh at her, but I'm pretty sure She's having a better day
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... I wanna see real tears and be sincere once before I die.
The other night I talked to an old flame, Who finally said why she moved on.
She said I didn't have faith in anything, I knew she wasn't wrong.
I saw two lovers in the park With that dreamy look of lust in their eyes.
The whole world smiled as they passed by... They just make me mad.
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... Take this jaded heart, blow it all apart, once before I...
I'll get down on my knees, something I don't believe...
Somebody help me, please, I'm starting to repeat myself... I'm starting to repeat...
So, I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
And I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry. I'd love to see a miracle once before I die...
Once before I die.
people of religion welcome death. the ultimate prize is to be with God. i'm only 51 yet i have a standing DNR order. i've done more than most people; now i want something better. you speak of death like it's something bad; to others; it's the best part of life.
people of religion welcome death. the ultimate prize is to be with God. i'm only 51 yet i have a standing DNR order. i've done more than most people; now i want something better. you speak of death like it's something bad; to others; it's the best part of life.
although this is true, the topic is about miracles. i think cosmo wants answers for these proclaimed "miracles" that you've experienced.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I openly challenge my friends to challenge my beliefs. It's people that don't have solid beliefs that get upset over it. If you can't properly defend or explain why you believe what you do, then ask yourself if your beliefs are correct.
perhaps your friends realise that they can not defend logically the faith they have in God. that faith requires a suspension of reason. and so get upset because they can't explain themselves and their faith.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...
So, did you give the old man and your mom and sister water from Lourdes and prayer... or buffalo meat and grassfed milk... or water from Lourdes, prayer, buffalo meat and grassfed milk??
they got water. the third guy; and many others; are only getting my buffalo meat. the guy with lung cancer is only one in many that have had cancer gone or in remission.
my sister's doctor told her to eat buffalo meat. she was a veggie but eats buffalo meat regularly now. my mum started eating buffalo meat last year. once she could get past it being buffalo.
the first 3 were religious and i knew they appreciate the gesture. the rest are part of my research in nutritional health.
they got water. the third guy; and many others; are only getting my buffalo meat. the guy with lung cancer is only one in many that have had cancer gone or in remission.
my sister's doctor told her to eat buffalo meat. she was a veggie but eats buffalo meat regularly now. my mum started eating buffalo meat last year. once she could get past it being buffalo.
the first 3 were religious and i knew they appreciate the gesture. the rest are part of my research in nutritional health.
...
So, it's not just the water and faith. The third guy and may others haven't gotten any water... just buffalo meat.
So, the cure isn't a religious based miracle... it's the buffalo meat that's the cure.
Right?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
everyone wants answers. why do you think we're doing so much research?
i thought miracles were due to unexplained "phenomena".
yes he wants answers but what i meant was he was asking, "why did those miners that were constantly prayed for hoping they would make it alive end up dying?"
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
...
So, it's not just the water and faith. The third guy and may others haven't gotten any water... just buffalo meat.
So, the cure isn't a religious based miracle... it's the buffalo meat that's the cure.
Right?
right. water was only an example of how faith can heal.
the actual "cure" is something in buffalo meat. science says it's a compound and are trying to isolate it. i think it's the entire combination of everything available in buffalo meat. if and only if the buffalo are raised properly. the usda has a lot of information as well as the NIH.
right. water was only an example of how faith can heal.
the actual "cure" is something in buffalo meat. science says it's a compound and are trying to isolate it. i think it's the entire combination of everything available in buffalo meat. if and only if the buffalo are raised properly. the usda has a lot of information as well as the NIH.
Comments
Exactly and YOUR study of giving some blessed water is slanted just as much as anyone's study.
Edit: But that's why you get a handful of studies (Like 17) and compare them against each other.
in the normal world; saying you'll pray for someone; is telling them you love them. it is the combined love that helps the sick. you seem to fight harder for life when you're loved by a lot of people.
See, that is the problem. I consider myself a Christian but that there is such a turn off. Such arrogance.
to the original question...I too had noticed that.
Where I'm not ugly and you're lookin' at me
But you don't right? There's nothing self focused about you at all?
And you don't ignore that objective reality that a lot of people do not hold your views?
If you gave me anything I would be instantly suspicious because I doubt your intentions. So there's not really anything that I could see myself accepting from you should I become terminally ill.
Just as I WILL CHOOSE MY PATH through life and death. And I respect that others also have this CHOICE.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Okay... don't take this the wrong way, but... I gotta call 'Bullshit' on this one. If it were true... it would truely qualify as a miracle... and at LEAST, be newsworthy. There would be SOME written record available for public... if not, you are letting millions of people worldwide, die from cancer. It the cure for cancer is in the water from Lourdes... then, cancer victims need it.
I do voluenteer work with both the Avon Walk (Los Angeles/Beaches) and the Susan G. Komen Foundation and there are thousands of mothers, daughters, sisters, aunts, nieces, cousins, friends and co-workers that suffer from and die from Breast Cancer in America alone. And I'm sure that 99.99999% of them get prayers from 99.9999999% of their friends and families... yet, they die. if ONE on them survived from prayer alone... not the chemo and mastectomies and other medical treatments... we would have heard from her.
Sorry.
Hail, Hail!!!
Gee, how simple. So we should all just take your word as law because well everybody knows what a superior intellect you. **sigh** Well I don't know about everyone else, but I feel SOOO much better knowing you are here to be our moral and mental compass.
So I should take the rantings of an egotistical, frustrated poster over ALL the other posts from a variety of viewpoints?
Hmmm..............how silly of me not to see the light?
Sorry your Magnificence, I didn't realize who I was dealing with.
Forgive my ignorance.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Well, you know... I'm pretty much a live and let live kinda guy. If someone believes in whatever faith... i say, "Great!". It works for you and you're happy... I'm happy. i don't expect anyone to adhere to my beliefs because I know that my beliefs are both... mine... and belief. It isn't the truth, so it does not apply to anyone else. And in the same manner... your faith is yours... not mine. And it is faith, not truth. Therefore, your faith does not necessarily apply to me. But, it works for you and I am glad it does.
I hope we all find the path to lead us to what we seek. The journey is our own... and who knows... maybe they all lead to the same destination. None of us will know until we get there. So, have a peaceful journey... that's what i say.
Hail, Hail!!!
Well actually that's debatable. You have a theory that is based on the evidence you have found to support your theory.
Actually Ryan, you are not a robot, you are a human being.
Robots are electronic beings made by humans. They do not breathe, they do not think, they do not feel. They do exactly what they are programmed to do.
You take in the knowledge that you are slanted to take in and you filter it through your personal experience and you rationalize your deliberations just like everybody else. It's a very HUMAN thing to do. A robot would not have these rationalizations.
How did homosexuality come into this?
I'm still trying to work out why you think prayer and meditation are the same thing.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Depends on the study doesn't it Ahnimus? As I've mentioned before, it's well worth knowing who did the study and any bias they may have before we accept the results as gospel, so to speak.
Frankly when you are ill, you don't really care so much what the people around you are doing in their inner world. You really don't have the energy to be "policing" the thoughts of those around you. You have your own to deal with. I'm quite sure that should you become seriously ill that the people around you know your views on prayer and religion and they won't be telling you that they will pray for you. But how they cope with the emotional fall out of your illness really is up to them. And I can't see you having the energy or the inclination to be debating with them about what you deem is the appropriate way for them to cope.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
similar cases were discussed in the american medical journal. i believe december 2005. doctors are prescribing patients to eat buffalo meat all over the country. researchers are trying to isolate the compound that destroys the cancer. thanks to the chemical companies; you cannot claim a cure until you can precisely measure dosage. that's the law. so until the compound is isolated; and an exact dosage can be established; millions will die from cancer. this is why natural products cannot be advertised and medicines.
here's a breast cancer study you may be interested in. sorry to those who've already seen it.
CLA (conjugated linoleic acid) is a cancer-fighting fat that is most abundant in grassfed products. Two new European studies link a diet high in CLA with a lower risk of breast cancer. In Finland, researchers measured CLA levels in the serum of women with and without breast cancer. Those women with the most CLA had a significantly lower risk of the disease. Meanwhile, French researchers measured CLA levels in the breast tissues of 360 women. Once again, the women with the most CLA had the lowest risk of cancer. In fact, the women with the most CLA had a staggering 74% lower risk of breast cancer than the women with the least CLA.
The most natural and effective way to increase your intake of CLA is to eat the meat and dairy products of grassfed animals.
A. Aro et al, Kuopio University, Finland; Bougnoux, P, Lavillonniere F, Riboli E. "Inverse relation between CLA in adipose breast tissue and risk of breast cancer. A case-control study in France." Inform 10;5:S43, 1999
i've never seen a miracle myself. i do believe in them though. but i think if someone has a miracle like a friend of mine who was almost stabbed to death... he crawled himself in the middle of the night 3 blocks away to his home till he could get someone to rescue him. they punctured his lungs, stabbed him on the side of the forehead, around the neck, around the stomache... geez they stabbed him in any other place you could think of. it took him 45 min to get to his house till they could call an ambulance. he doesn't remember much afterwards... just dreams. now he's alive and doing well. that's a miracle to me.
or like my mother... she had about 20 tumors in her head. she suffered from epilepsy because of that. for nearly 3 years, the doctors said she wouldn't make it. my father got scared, so that's when he started going to church. when she had her first visit in church she had an experience... call it what you will or call it the way Ahnimus explains it, it doesn't matter. but the next week when she had her doctor's appointment they were all freaked out that the tumors were all gone. not unless of course, my parents are lying to me.... although they've never lied.
Very nicely said Cosmo.
That's pretty much my view on it all too. I think accepting other people regardless of our differences is a difficult thing to do but something we could all benefit from. And peace and love are always good things to take into the world. And hopefully out of it too.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
No one is smarter than you are Jeanie, they just have different knowledge.
I happen to spend my time learning about such things instead of learning about automobiles, and consequently I know nothing about cars.
How do you know how I would think if I was ill? Based on your own personal experiences. That's the same old song Jeanie. It means sweet fuck all to me.
Great. I'm glad it all turned out for the better.
But, what does it say about the thousands of others who die... is their faith not as strong? And as for the power of faith by others... those miners in Virginia had the prayers of the entire nation working for them... and what happened? They all died. Was it because i didn't pray for them?
I am not trying to debunk your examples... I do believe that miracles do happen... but, they are anomalies, not the norm.
and trust me... no one wishes they could just believe more than me. Like a song my friend Jill sings,
...
I have a friend who swears she saw Jesus, Hovering above her lonely bed.
She said it changed her life forever, "Whatever works," I said.
I sit at home, changing channels, It's so hard to concentrate.
I laugh at her, but I'm pretty sure She's having a better day
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... I wanna see real tears and be sincere once before I die.
The other night I talked to an old flame, Who finally said why she moved on.
She said I didn't have faith in anything, I knew she wasn't wrong.
I saw two lovers in the park With that dreamy look of lust in their eyes.
The whole world smiled as they passed by... They just make me mad.
Maybe I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
Maybe I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry... Take this jaded heart, blow it all apart, once before I...
I'll get down on my knees, something I don't believe...
Somebody help me, please, I'm starting to repeat myself... I'm starting to repeat...
So, I'll lay on the highway somewhere in New Mexico And wait for a strange light to come and take me home.
And I'll stand by the statue and wait for her to cry. I'd love to see a miracle once before I die...
Once before I die.
Hail, Hail!!!
but i can sympathize with your beliefs... you will never see me standing in front of the texas state capital (which is where i live) raising up signs that say, "God hates fags" but i will never march with homosexuals either cause those are contrary to my beliefs as well. i mean, thank god for mlk and all. he served of great purpose for our nation, but he never advocated his own beliefs in protest against the oppressions of his people. if he did, i bet he would've never been successful.
So, did you give the old man and your mom and sister water from Lourdes and prayer... or buffalo meat and grassfed milk... or water from Lourdes, prayer, buffalo meat and grassfed milk??
Hail, Hail!!!
besides it doesn't mean that i've never had loved one's die. i've had many of them pass away, just like that! yes, we prayed for them. at least hoping that there death would be peaceful. sometimes your moment just arrives.
hi jeanie,
i know i'm not cosmo but i feel the need to answer this question anyway. you know how i get girl.
i have friends and family who are religious, or who think they are anyway. they know that i am an atheist. what i would like from them is respect enough that they know how i would feel if i were aware they were praying for me. they know it would not be helping me. therefore i would assume, rightly or wrongly, that they would desist in 'wasting' their prayer on someone who believes they don't need saving nor the 'power' of prayer.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
people of religion welcome death. the ultimate prize is to be with God. i'm only 51 yet i have a standing DNR order. i've done more than most people; now i want something better. you speak of death like it's something bad; to others; it's the best part of life.
perhaps your friends realise that they can not defend logically the faith they have in God. that faith requires a suspension of reason. and so get upset because they can't explain themselves and their faith.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
they got water. the third guy; and many others; are only getting my buffalo meat. the guy with lung cancer is only one in many that have had cancer gone or in remission.
my sister's doctor told her to eat buffalo meat. she was a veggie but eats buffalo meat regularly now. my mum started eating buffalo meat last year. once she could get past it being buffalo.
the first 3 were religious and i knew they appreciate the gesture. the rest are part of my research in nutritional health.
So, it's not just the water and faith. The third guy and may others haven't gotten any water... just buffalo meat.
So, the cure isn't a religious based miracle... it's the buffalo meat that's the cure.
Right?
Hail, Hail!!!
everyone wants answers. why do you think we're doing so much research?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JARF7q2S6ns
yes he wants answers but what i meant was he was asking, "why did those miners that were constantly prayed for hoping they would make it alive end up dying?"
right. water was only an example of how faith can heal.
the actual "cure" is something in buffalo meat. science says it's a compound and are trying to isolate it. i think it's the entire combination of everything available in buffalo meat. if and only if the buffalo are raised properly. the usda has a lot of information as well as the NIH.
our native American Indians did too.