Why Do Athiests

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  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    well, maybe they should learn from ghandi, mlk, or something...

    last i checked, mlk did NOT shut up and keep quiet. last i heard, he was always VERY outspoken about the unjust treatment. as i recall, he wrote this one piece called "letter from a birmingham jail." now, i know you probly didn't read it cos it hurt your poor wittle christian feelings, but it essentially REAMED christians for standing by in silence while this oppression went on. so the LAST thing mlk would be advocating is "don't you homos dare say anything negative about the church guys! you can never question the motives or methods of christians!"
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    as a misanthrope, my anger is directed at people in general. i'd be happy if the lot of you stayed awaay from me. :D:p and please don't pray for me cause that pisses me off. :D


    i knew i liked you............:):)
  • last i checked, mlk did NOT shut up and keep quiet. last i heard, he was always VERY outspoken about the unjust treatment. as i recall, he wrote this one piece called "letter from a birmingham jail." now, i know you probly didn't read it cos it hurt your poor wittle christian feelings, but it essentially REAMED christians for standing by in silence while this oppression went on. so the LAST thing mlk would be advocating is "don't you homos dare say anything negative about the church guys! you can never question the motives or methods of christians!"
    no offense dude... but you're retarded, man. i'm not dogging gays here. i don't go preaching to homosexuals and telling them they need to repent. i'm not doing either of that dude. where'd you get the idea that's what i'm doing?

    i work with a lesbian. her and i work very well together. she knows i go to church and i believe in god and all of this. but you never here us arguing at how we should change each others lifestyles. instead we're making jokes at each other and i ask her what kinds of girls she's into and she asks me the same. of course, i tease her a little bit but i don't dog on her. there's a difference between standing up for yourself and just trying to pick on argument with others for disagreeing with you. and that's exactly what goes on on these boards. if there is anything that i am advocating here is just that. learn to communicate dude. learn how to speak in love and fellowship. and if not well what the hell, i'm wasting my time.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    cutback wrote:
    i knew i liked you............:):)


    just so long as you like me from afar. :D:D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    just so long as you like me from afar. :D:D


    hehehehehe........exactly...........:D:D
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    no offense dude... but you're retarded, man. i'm not dogging gays here. i don't go preaching to homosexuals and telling them they need to repent. i'm not doing either of that dude. where'd you get the idea that's what i'm doing?

    i work with a lesbian. her and i work very well together. she knows i go to church and i believe in god and all of this. but you never here us arguing at how we should change each others lifestyles. instead we're making jokes at each other and i ask her what kinds of girls she's into and she asks me the same. of course, i tease her a little bit but i don't dog on her. there's a difference between standing up for yourself and just trying to pick on argument with others for disagreeing with you. and that's exactly what goes on on these boards. if there is anything that i am advocating here is just that. learn to communicate dude. learn how to speak in love and fellowship. and if not well what the hell, i'm wasting my time.

    i love how every person who thinks homosexuality is a sin is so quick to talk about their one gay friend and how they don't hate or judge. im glad you get along with her dude, but the point is, a LOT of your fellows do not. a LOT of your fellow aren't joking, they're out there trying to pass laws to strip your coworker of her humanity. so i dont blame people for being defensive in the face of that kind of antagonism. and it all starts when someone believes they have a stranglehold on morality, which is why your morality is so often challenged. becos the first step is to show those people that there are other ways for people to live and it is none of their business how others live.

    there is a world of difference between saying "i believe homosexuality is immoral and so i will not engage in homosexuality" and saying "i believe homosexuality is immoral and nobody should engage in homosexuality and i will do my darndest to make sure nobody else does." that is a problem. again, if you're not one of them, cool. but if you're going to speak their rhetoric (homos are sinning) then don't act surprised when people get offended and fight back.
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    i've kissed a girl and i didnt think it was gross. then again im not a gay guy. :D:p

    Girls kissing girls is awesome. Everybody knows that.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Scubascott wrote:
    Girls kissing girls is awesome. Everybody knows that.

    even more so when youre doing it scott. :D it's a whole other thing.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • the first step is to show those people that there are other ways for people to live and it is none of their business how others live.

    there is a world of difference between saying "i believe homosexuality is immoral and so i will not engage in homosexuality"
    first of all, those are not my people. i don't judge people. so people that judge others are not my people. i've never judged them. if i believe homosexuality is a sin or not is not anybody else's concerns. i don't force it onto others. so in this case, don't direct this conversation at me.

    i'm looking at it from a third person perspective. so i only included two lines above because that's basically what i'm saying here. don't go any further and trying to take another step at arguing and what not.... just for the sake of, i don't know, arguing maybe. i hate arguing. especially when it comes about my beliefs. i hold them sacred and only to me. the only times i've shared my views is when people ask me or when someone makes a certain comment that peeks my interest. but this out of the box. you could've just looked at my comment and seen it from a third person perspective. instead you took it hostile and kind of with an "attitude" only because of prior conversations that you and i have had. so, snap out of it now. or else i will have to slap the crap out of you. and trust me i am good at that. my father was a big mean mexican thuggish fellow (kinda like benicio del toro in traffic) and i have relatives that are in the mafia.... so trust me. i will slap you if i have to. j/k

    i'm not debating against homosexuality. i'm debating against arguments and hostility.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    even more so when youre doing it scott. :D it's a whole other thing.

    Damn you! How am I supposed to concentrate on my work with this kind of talk going on? Makes me yearn for my drunken years living in college. . . .
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    first of all, those are not my people. i don't judge people. so people that judge others are not my people. i've never judged them. if i believe homosexuality is a sin or not is not anybody else's concerns. i don't force it onto others. so in this case, don't direct this conversation at me.

    i'm looking at it from a third person perspective. so i only included two lines above because that's basically what i'm saying here. don't go any further and trying to take another step at arguing and what not.... just for the sake of, i don't know, arguing maybe. i hate arguing. especially when it comes about my beliefs. i hold them sacred and only to me. the only times i've shared my views is when people ask me or when someone makes a certain comment that peeks my interest. but this out of the box. you could've just looked at my comment and seen it from a third person perspective. instead you took it hostile and kind of with an "attitude" only because of prior conversations that you and i have had. so, snap out of it now. or else i will have to slap the crap out of you. and trust me i am good at that. my father was a big mean mexican thuggish fellow (kinda like benicio del toro in traffic) and i have relatives that are in the mafia.... so trust me. i will slap you if i have to. j/k

    i'm not debating against homosexuality. i'm debating against arguments and hostility.

    and im telling you those arguments and hostility are necessary to protect their rights. so they are not going to stop and should not stop. you wouldn't have told blacks in the 60s they should stop arguing with white people about how unfair their treatment was, so i dont see why proponents of gay rights should stop arguing with those who are trying to take those rights away. like i said, im glad you're not one of them, im just saying if the arguing bothers you, dont read it. becos it's a necessary argument.

    your mafia doesn't scare me amigo, im irish and we've got our own mafia and are crazy as shit to boot ;)
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Scubascott wrote:
    Damn you! How am I supposed to concentrate on my work with this kind of talk going on? Makes me yearn for my drunken years living in college. . . .

    i'd apologise but you know i ain't sorry. :D:D:p
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • and im telling you those arguments and hostility are necessary to protect their rights. so they are not going to stop and should not stop. you wouldn't have told blacks in the 60s they should stop arguing with white people about how unfair their treatment was, so i dont see why proponents of gay rights should stop arguing with those who are trying to take those rights away. like i said, im glad you're not one of them, im just saying if the arguing bothers you, dont read it. becos it's a necessary argument.

    your mafia doesn't scare me amigo, im irish and we've got our own mafia and are crazy as shit to boot ;)
    well, okay... i don't see how a hostile homosexual could ever make it anywhere in the world. i don't think this was mlk's message. his message was more about protesting peacefully. your doctrines would probably resemble Malcolm X doctrines a little better. but anyways...

    the difference between an irish mafia and a mexican mafia is the irish mafia will say alot to scare you but the mexican mafia don't have to say much to scare you ;)

    oh by the way. your last comment you said about not reading the arguments because it's necessary and all, well actually i never did read them so i'm not really sure what's going on. haha would you figure that?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    Athiests just wanna be left alone, are happy to live and let live.
    Religious nutters are always trying to impose their ideas on others.

    That's a big thing !!

    Oh yeah, and did i mention the wars ????????????????
    Music is not a competetion.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Athiests just wanna be left alone, are happy to live and let live.
    Religious nutters are always trying to impose their ideas on others.

    That's a big thing !!

    Oh yeah, and did i mention the wars ????????????????

    yep luce you did. :D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I'm an anti-theist. I attack religion. I also attack free-will.

    Because I 'know' that these two percepts affect the way people view each other and interact and it makes for the vicious societies we live in.

    People can disagree with me and I will recognize why they disagree with me. But I won't just shut up about it and I wouldn't expect anyone to shut up about their opinions either.

    On the other hand, I would like rational debate instead of opinionated debate.

    E.g. God and Free-will defy the laws of science and everything else we know. Regardless of what I believe, the truth is incontrovertible and exists independent of anyone's will. To have rational debate we really need to meet in the middle and try to look at it without ego and without opinions.

    So let us assume that none of us have ever heard of God and ask the questions "What is God?" "Is it probable?" "What is the evidence for and against it?"

    I feel the problem people are having here is not being able to ask these questions without becoming so emotionally involved that they block any objection to their 'opinions' and ignore evidence.

    I honestly think that it's largely the die-hard Christians that attribute to the hostile atmosphere. Unfortunately God cannot be argued logically, so that wraps up the debate pretty quick. I've yet to hear a Christian tackle this topic rationally without emotional investment. Rational atheists are few and far between as well.

    Let's discuss, but first let's set a proof that would suffice us all. Let us define what proof we are looking for. Does a description of a cat mean that the cat really exists? I would say no. So then we must find some other evidence for it, either by measuring it or consistently predicting the results. Believers seem to be set in irrational thought and unwilling to tackle the debate in this way, so ultimately it's a worthless topic. If anyone is looking for confirmation that atheism is right, then that's a different story. :p
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ScubascottScubascott Posts: 815
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Believers seem to be set in irrational thought and unwilling to tackle the debate in this way, so ultimately it's a worthless topic.

    Here is the crux of the matter. I do admire your tireless crusade, because in general I agree with most of your thoughts regarding religion, and it always amuses me to read the threads that you start.

    However, I don't think I want to live in a world devoid of religion. Despite all the trouble it causes it makes the world a far more interesting place to travel in. And, as you say, there is no point trying to debate something that is in essense completely irrational to begin with in rational terms. So I say why bother? I prefer to leave the topic alone until it involves religion encroaching on other aspects of society where it doesn't belong, like the teaching of evolution in biology classes. That's when it starts to matter, and that's when, for the sake of society, rational argument must prevail.
    It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!

    -C Addison
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Scubascott wrote:
    Here is the crux of the matter. I do admire your tireless crusade, because in general I agree with most of your thoughts regarding religion, and it always amuses me to read the threads that you start.

    However, I don't think I want to live in a world devoid of religion. Despite all the trouble it causes it makes the world a far more interesting place to travel in. And, as you say, there is no point trying to debate something that is in essense completely irrational to begin with in rational terms. So I say why bother? I prefer to leave the topic alone until it involves religion encroaching on other aspects of society where it doesn't belong, like the teaching of evolution in biology classes. That's when it starts to matter, and that's when, for the sake of society, rational argument must prevail.

    I see a much bigger problem though. I see the collective view of reality through the eyes of society as a big determining factor in criminal behavior. I have concerns of how society affects the individual and I see that it does a lot of damage to people.

    And does it matter if something comforts us if it's not true?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    I haven't read the entire thread, so sorry if I have missed something.

    When I was in the States at least 7 different people came to me and asked me if I knew about Jesus, if I wanted to know about their church, I said I knew who Jesus was and wasn't interested in their church and told them I was a foreigner, which they, of course, accepted as a valid excuse.

    Now, my country isn't religious at all. The people that do believe don't even go to church, I think only 10%, maybe 20% goes to church and it's probably the old people. So when I was in the States and someone asked me about my beliefs I was surprised.

    I'm sure they all have the best intentions, but honestly I'd hate it if I lived in the States and couldn't have a week without 5 people asking me about Jesus. I have my own beliefs, I'm not a lost sheep.

    I think it was know1 who gave the hit by a truck example, I disagree with that. To me, and I have said this before, it's like we are all on a plane. None of us know where it's going and we all have an idea, a lot of us are convinced our own idea is the right one. Then you have a bunch of people that this this plane is going to crash and want to save you. They want to save you by pushing you out of a plane without a parachute because they feel they are right.

    I think it's pretty obvious how the religious would feel if atheist came up to them, came up to their door and asked them about Jesus and if they say "Yes, I believe in God and Jesus," the atheists say "Shit, man, I'm so sorry."

    Imagine this, you're walking down the street and people give you a pamphlet and it says "Feeling down? We can help you."
    You ask the person who gave you this pamphlet what it is about and he says "do you believe in god? Because if you do, you are misguided and we feel sorry for you, but don't worry we'll all do our very best to convince you you are wrong, so you will join us because without god you'll feel so much better, you'll be saved, yes saved from that horrible god, your own horrible beliefs."

    I'm sure you'd say these atheists are wonderful people for trying to save you, how compassionate of them.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    yep luce you did. :D

    Ah shit, thanks for that, I wasn't sure !!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe it was the rape and pillage and torture I forgot, to mention. Did I mention that yet ??????????????????

    Oh yeah, and that whole " you are going to go to hell " thing they keep saying to me, cos I don't agree with them That ain't real nice ya know, saying that to people, could be taken as unpleasant behaviour.
    Music is not a competetion.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Ahnimus wrote:
    I'm an anti-theist. I attack religion. I also attack free-will.

    Because I 'know' that these two percepts affect the way people view each other and interact and it makes for the vicious societies we live in.

    People can disagree with me and I will recognize why they disagree with me. But I won't just shut up about it and I wouldn't expect anyone to shut up about their opinions either.

    On the other hand, I would like rational debate instead of opinionated debate.

    E.g. God and Free-will defy the laws of science and everything else we know. Regardless of what I believe, the truth is incontrovertible and exists independent of anyone's will. To have rational debate we really need to meet in the middle and try to look at it without ego and without opinions.

    So let us assume that none of us have ever heard of God and ask the questions "What is God?" "Is it probable?" "What is the evidence for and against it?"

    I feel the problem people are having here is not being able to ask these questions without becoming so emotionally involved that they block any objection to their 'opinions' and ignore evidence.

    I honestly think that it's largely the die-hard Christians that attribute to the hostile atmosphere. Unfortunately God cannot be argued logically, so that wraps up the debate pretty quick. I've yet to hear a Christian tackle this topic rationally without emotional investment. Rational atheists are few and far between as well.

    Let's discuss, but first let's set a proof that would suffice us all. Let us define what proof we are looking for. Does a description of a cat mean that the cat really exists? I would say no. So then we must find some other evidence for it, either by measuring it or consistently predicting the results. Believers seem to be set in irrational thought and unwilling to tackle the debate in this way, so ultimately it's a worthless topic. If anyone is looking for confirmation that atheism is right, then that's a different story. :p

    I still do not see why it's not so obvious to some people how foolish it is to try and define or prove the existence or lack of God using very limited human knowledge and logic.

    I personally believe we can't even prove that we "exist" because "existence" is a man-made concept.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    know1 wrote:
    I still do not see why it's not so obvious to some people how foolish it is to try and define or prove the existence or lack of God using very limited human knowledge and logic.

    I personally believe we can't even prove that we "exist" because "existence" is a man-made concept.

    O Jesus, not the existential question again. If you don't exist, you don't need any money you have in the bank, send it to me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, do you exist now ??? Bet you do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Music is not a competetion.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    know1 wrote:
    I still do not see why it's not so obvious to some people how foolish it is to try and define or prove the existence or lack of God using very limited human knowledge and logic.

    I personally believe we can't even prove that we "exist" because "existence" is a man-made concept.


    If we can't prove our existence? Then what do you want to believe in another existence that has only stories written about it? Just curious. I mean if you can't fathom your own life. Why worry about some other, bigger, entity? Seems that Atlantis is more real then God. Two cents.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    even flow? wrote:
    If we can't prove our existence? Then what do you want to believe in another existence that has only stories written about it? Just curious. I mean if you can't fathom your own life. Why worry about some other, bigger, entity? Seems that Atlantis is more real then God. Two cents.

    We weren't discussing why I WANT to believe in God. We were discussing how God couldn't be proven. The point is that we can't be proven, so we can't really disprove the existence of God.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    know1 wrote:
    We weren't discussing why I WANT to believe in God. We were discussing how God couldn't be proven. The point is that we can't be proven, so we can't really disprove the existence of God.

    Crapola !!!! What do you mean we can't be proven ??
    I am demonstrably constructed of matter, what teh fuck else do I need to exist ???
    Your approval ???? Don't hold your breath bud .
    Music is not a competetion.
  • JackieboyJackieboy Posts: 78
    know1 wrote:
    We weren't discussing why I WANT to believe in God. We were discussing how God couldn't be proven. The point is that we can't be proven, so we can't really disprove the existence of God.


    Lol! Then why even claim this guy exists? You know, they used to belivieve in faries and mermaids back in the days too? Why not just accept that all there is no such thing as an almighty god?
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Jackieboy wrote:
    Lol! Then why even claim this guy exists? You know, they used to belivieve in faries and mermaids back in the days too? Why not just accept that all there is no such thing as an almighty god?

    Valid point. Just like it's a valid point that the simple fact that humans can't prove God doesn't exist doesn't mean that God doesn't exist.

    At one point in time, humans couldn't prove that the Earth was round, but that didn't mean that it wasn't.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    know1 wrote:
    We weren't discussing why I WANT to believe in God. We were discussing how God couldn't be proven. The point is that we can't be proven, so we can't really disprove the existence of God.

    someone pinch me, i'm dreaming. :D
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • cornnifercornnifer Posts: 2,130
    last i checked, mlk did NOT shut up and keep quiet. last i heard, he was always VERY outspoken about the unjust treatment. as i recall, he wrote this one piece called "letter from a birmingham jail." now, i know you probly didn't read it cos it hurt your poor wittle christian feelings, but it essentially REAMED christians for standing by in silence while this oppression went on. so the LAST thing mlk would be advocating is "don't you homos dare say anything negative about the church guys! you can never question the motives or methods of christians!"

    "poor wittle Christian feelings?!" Doctor King was, before anything else, a CHRISTIAN?! You may not want to accept that because it hurts your poor wittle "i hate Christians" feelings, and sticks a huge fork in your bullshit "Christians are all hateful, violent warmongers" bullshit philosophy, but it is undeniable truth. Maybe YOU should go back and read, or perhaps, re-read "letter from a birmingham jail" or countless other pieces. Christianity was at the forefront of his philosophy and teachings. One of ther greatest, most loving, peaceful men this country has ever known was very much a CHRISTIAN. Deal with it.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Cuntified CCuntified C Posts: 114
    why do athiests have so much anger toward those of religion? religious threads here turn into athiest trying to prove those of religion are wrong. why? where does this anger come from. if you tell someone of religion that you are athiest; they feel sorry for you and maybe pray for you; which is an act of compassion to them. yet athiests can't wait to jump on someone trying to prove they're wrong. they disrespect that person and thier beliefs. are these the attributes of a "good" person?

    Some atheists would consider it patronizing and maybe narrow minded when they feel like they are being pitied or felt sorry for. It isn't compassionate at all. It's pious which isn't the same thing. Athiests aren't terminally ill, they just choose to reject the notion that their is a God, or that religious is something they can apply to their life. If a Christian or a God fearing person feels the need to pray for them, they should maybe realise that that's actually quite a condescending attitude, not an altruistic one. It might be true that some atheists may jump on some christians for their beliefs and again this isn't good. I think we should all strive to respect other peoples beliefs, debate and discussion are fine but I don't think deliberately trying pick holes in someone elses beliefs just to undermine it I don't think is fine at all.
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