lol, but seriously. I don't believe in God, but I don't not believe in him. I am totally accepting of him if he is the truth, but I have no evidence besides people telling me who want to believe in him.. If there really is a god, I'm sure he'd understand why people might be confused. If not, then he's an asshole. I have a hard time believe god would be an asshole.
Take dimethyltryptamine and you will believe in God. It's such a potent hallucinigen that people claim "true experiences" or experiences they believe are true. DMT can be extracted from grass with a home chemistry set.
Alex Gray is an artists who depicts these religious experiences
It's all hallucinations to me, and I'd be cautious of taking psychedelics, but people for 50,000 years have claimed to reach God with them.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Oh I forgot to mention, in recent years, DMT can get you abducted by aliens and anal probed too. I guess it all depends on what you like.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
how so? I am attempting to describe to you, how I feel when someone tells me that they will pray for me. I have no problem that you believe in god, I have a problem in the fact that because i don't I am to be pitied and looked down on.
That is what bothers me, not that fact that jesus is your savior.
um. jesus is not my savior, and anything else that you're reading into there is totally a construct of your own imagination.
I take it to mean; I would like for the universal chance to work in favor.
Luck?
Does an Abrahamist believe in luck?
According to St. Augustine good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. That hardly leaves room for chance. Or is this like free-will where it's limited, partly God's will and partly luck?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I take it to mean; I would like for the universal chance to work in favor.
Luck?
Does an Abrahamist believe in luck?
According to St. Augustine good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. That hardly leaves room for chance. Or is this like free-will where it's limited, partly God's will and partly luck?
well, as you know I am an avid believer in God. I also believe that we live by chance. Is that possible?
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I take it to mean; I would like for the universal chance to work in favor.
Luck?
Does an Abrahamist believe in luck?
According to St. Augustine good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. That hardly leaves room for chance. Or is this like free-will where it's limited, partly God's will and partly luck?
"I hope" is a prayer.
That's what I posted. You're taking it other places.
well, as you know I am an avid believer in God. I also believe that we live by chance. Is that possible?
I'm not sure how, and if it were, the lines would be pretty blurry. It would have to be that everything operates on chance, but God can intervene. But also God would have to make sure not to unravel his universe by doing so. Everything appears to be cause and effect, so if God did cause something, the effects could be rather chaotic and he would have to be omniscient, which means he'd have to know which choices you are going to make and then you'd have to make those choices.
It gets pretty nutty when you put God in there.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm not sure how, and if it were, the lines would be pretty blurry. It would have to be that everything operates on chance, but God can intervene. But also God would have to make sure not to unravel his universe by doing so. Everything appears to be cause and effect, so if God did cause something, the effects could be rather chaotic and he would have to be omniscient, which means he'd have to know which choices you are going to make and then you'd have to make those choices.
It gets pretty nutty when you put God in there.
You have a history with "God", that's why it's nutty. I don't.
Got is the Germanic origin of the word God, which is now spelled Gott in Germany.
Mein Gott "My God"
Dein Kind ist dein Gott "Your child is your God" a good tune by Das Ich.
Also 'Gott ist Tot" "God is dead" is a good song too.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
You have a history with "God", that's why it's nutty. I don't.
I do? What history?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
and the question was why can't others act as you do.
I think others do act this way OLS. Not everybody, obviously, but don't miss the wood for the trees. There are people that are not threatened by others points of view or beliefs. They are the people that you need to focus on.
Even if someone doesn't agree with you, or you with them, the important thing is to be respectful of each others differences. Well I think, anyway.
i dont think i ever said he was a monster. i said he was full of shit. like i said, he reminds me of that kid in junior high that always made up something to have the coolest story. it was annoying then and it's annoying now. if he wants to throw that shit out there, then he can expect to be called on it. you went to tell me about the constitution, then prove you know what you're talking about. he didnt. he got schooled by hippiemom. this is a forum about debate. if you want to jerk each other's egos off and flirt and giggle about your crushes, go to aet. he can handle himself and he always has. but if he doesn't want to be asked about these mysterious experiences, he shouldn't be citing to them as reasons for the rest of us to believe he is right.
it has to do with the thread becos once again, he claimed there were some 619 commandments that every law ever made was based upon and that encompasses all of human morality. i and several others asked what these were as we had never heard of them and there was no reply. i figured it was another of his unsubstantiated claims. for once though, he gave a real answer (they are in the koran) and so i asked where i could see the list. still have not gotten a response. people have tried searching for them... but the only google search result for 619 commandments is... yup, the posts he has made on this board. might strange dont you think?
I never said that you did call him a monster. I said I didn't think he was one.
So it seems that much of what is going on here in this thread actually has nothing to do with this thread and is a combined frustration that you have from many previous threads? Or am I getting that wrong?
The thread is about OLS view that athiests, in his opinion, feel the need to attack those of religion. And I read it that he wondered why people couldn't be respectful of each other. :rolleyes: Of course that's just my interpretation. I'm probably wrong.
Please don't belittle my input. I simply asked why you felt it necessary to attack him personally. Or it seemed to me that you were. Again I could be wrong. This is text after all and not a true indication of the complexity of each of the individuals posting here.
As to the other, well not that I feel the need to defend him, but I can confirm a couple of his claims. But it's not for me to do that.
So perhaps like most of us here, some of what he says is bullshit and some of what he says is truth. By all means disagree, gee call it bullshit if you must, but play nice is perhaps all I'm asking. And not because I particularly feel the need to defend OLS but because you attacking him personally dimishes you.
And I think that does you a diservice.
lol, but seriously. I don't believe in God, but I don't not believe in him. I am totally accepting of him if he is the truth, but I have no evidence besides people telling me who want to believe in him.. If there really is a god, I'm sure he'd understand why people might be confused. If not, then he's an asshole. I have a hard time believe god would be an asshole.
I pretty much agree with everything that you've said here LAO.
It's never made sense to me that if there is a God he/she would behave like a human. I would expect that if there is a God then surely he/she would be above behaving as the worst kind of human and would be capable of so much more than the best of humans. If not, then what's the point to God?
How is meditation "effectively the same thing" as prayer?
It has the same affect on the brain.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Somehow you are ascribing the getting down on knees, and muttering a few wishes with the hands together as something like meditation. That's silly. Prayer is prayer, prayer is hoping. It's arrogant to make fun of those who choose to do it on their knees.
why not? prayer is like focusing on something.... like God. just like meditating... you focus on something and it can also be God.
but if you mean prayer like, "oh, God, I pray that you get me out of this one." then that's the same thing as you mention, "I hope."
but prayer as in the kind that makes you cry, pout, boohoo and weep and do all sorts of things... that's meditating. i probably sound like an idiot to you.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Somehow you are ascribing the getting down on knees, and muttering a few wishes with the hands together as something like meditation. That's silly. Prayer is prayer, prayer is hoping. It's arrogant to make fun of those who choose to do it on their knees.
I'm not making fun of them. I'm just stating what experiments have shown. I'm not talking about light prayers by a moderate religious person. I'm talking about lengthy prayers of a deeply religious person. Or how a moderately religious person might feel at a particular gathering with other deeply religious people.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm not making fun of them. I'm just stating what experiments have shown. I'm not talking about light prayers by a moderate religious person. I'm talking about lengthy prayers of a deeply religious person. Or how a moderately religious person might feel at a particular gathering with other deeply religious people.
Then you're making fun of the revival sort of thing: and that is a silly argument on your part. I mean, if you want to be scientific, at least subscribe your argument to the norm. It isn't the voodoo fringe that makes things what they are, and I am certain most of your arguments are aimed at proving what things are.
Comments
Take dimethyltryptamine and you will believe in God. It's such a potent hallucinigen that people claim "true experiences" or experiences they believe are true. DMT can be extracted from grass with a home chemistry set.
Alex Gray is an artists who depicts these religious experiences
http://www.iamshaman.com/galleries/gray/images/image_01.jpg
http://www.alexgray.com
It's all hallucinations to me, and I'd be cautious of taking psychedelics, but people for 50,000 years have claimed to reach God with them.
um. jesus is not my savior, and anything else that you're reading into there is totally a construct of your own imagination.
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in which case shouldn't "tripping balls" instead be "tripping ass?"
angels share laughter
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"I hope" is a prayer.
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I didn't know you were asking.
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Is it?
I take it to mean; I would like for the universal chance to work in favor.
Luck?
Does an Abrahamist believe in luck?
According to St. Augustine good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people. That hardly leaves room for chance. Or is this like free-will where it's limited, partly God's will and partly luck?
If that's how you've interpreted it, then yes, perhaps I can be.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
"I hope" is a prayer.
That's what I posted. You're taking it other places.
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I'm not sure how, and if it were, the lines would be pretty blurry. It would have to be that everything operates on chance, but God can intervene. But also God would have to make sure not to unravel his universe by doing so. Everything appears to be cause and effect, so if God did cause something, the effects could be rather chaotic and he would have to be omniscient, which means he'd have to know which choices you are going to make and then you'd have to make those choices.
It gets pretty nutty when you put God in there.
You have a history with "God", that's why it's nutty. I don't.
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Got is the Germanic origin of the word God, which is now spelled Gott in Germany.
Mein Gott "My God"
Dein Kind ist dein Gott "Your child is your God" a good tune by Das Ich.
Also 'Gott ist Tot" "God is dead" is a good song too.
I do? What history?
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
"I Hope" is a prayer.
It has nothing to do with Gott.
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I agree.
I found greg's post very heartening.
I think others do act this way OLS. Not everybody, obviously, but don't miss the wood for the trees. There are people that are not threatened by others points of view or beliefs. They are the people that you need to focus on.
Even if someone doesn't agree with you, or you with them, the important thing is to be respectful of each others differences. Well I think, anyway.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
So it seems that much of what is going on here in this thread actually has nothing to do with this thread and is a combined frustration that you have from many previous threads? Or am I getting that wrong?
The thread is about OLS view that athiests, in his opinion, feel the need to attack those of religion. And I read it that he wondered why people couldn't be respectful of each other. :rolleyes: Of course that's just my interpretation. I'm probably wrong.
Please don't belittle my input. I simply asked why you felt it necessary to attack him personally. Or it seemed to me that you were. Again I could be wrong. This is text after all and not a true indication of the complexity of each of the individuals posting here.
As to the other, well not that I feel the need to defend him, but I can confirm a couple of his claims. But it's not for me to do that.
So perhaps like most of us here, some of what he says is bullshit and some of what he says is truth. By all means disagree, gee call it bullshit if you must, but play nice is perhaps all I'm asking. And not because I particularly feel the need to defend OLS but because you attacking him personally dimishes you.
And I think that does you a diservice.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I pretty much agree with everything that you've said here LAO.
It's never made sense to me that if there is a God he/she would behave like a human. I would expect that if there is a God then surely he/she would be above behaving as the worst kind of human and would be capable of so much more than the best of humans. If not, then what's the point to God?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
How is meditation "effectively the same thing" as prayer?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
It has the same affect on the brain.
This is so stupid.
No, it isn't/doesn't.
An "I wish" is a prayer, an "I hope" is a prayer.
Somehow you are ascribing the getting down on knees, and muttering a few wishes with the hands together as something like meditation. That's silly. Prayer is prayer, prayer is hoping. It's arrogant to make fun of those who choose to do it on their knees.
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Bullshit
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but if you mean prayer like, "oh, God, I pray that you get me out of this one." then that's the same thing as you mention, "I hope."
but prayer as in the kind that makes you cry, pout, boohoo and weep and do all sorts of things... that's meditating. i probably sound like an idiot to you.
I'm not making fun of them. I'm just stating what experiments have shown. I'm not talking about light prayers by a moderate religious person. I'm talking about lengthy prayers of a deeply religious person. Or how a moderately religious person might feel at a particular gathering with other deeply religious people.
I don't make fun of people by stating what I know.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1847442.stm
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Then you're making fun of the revival sort of thing: and that is a silly argument on your part. I mean, if you want to be scientific, at least subscribe your argument to the norm. It isn't the voodoo fringe that makes things what they are, and I am certain most of your arguments are aimed at proving what things are.
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except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.