Hezbollah started this

Scratchin a Letter

shiraz wrote:

Byrnzie YOU still haven't answered my question from last page, only kept bringing Chomsky's articales. here it is, for the third time:


"What would you say if Hizbollah did the same thing with soliders from US/England or other int forces in occuping Iraq? And what would you say if Hizbollah did the same with FORMER int armed forces in occuping Iraq, for example get into Spain, kill and kidnap their soliders? does it sound like an assistance to the Iraqi people? Is this justified? Does Hizbollah have the right to do such things?

British soldiers have been kidnapped in Iraq. British civilians have been kidnapped in Iraq. Beheaded. Tortured, for the world to see.

The British government does nothing when this happens. This is very sad, especially as the logistics of the capture are of a desperate and unrealistic nature (the captors demand withdrawl of troops from Iraq, etc).

In the case of Israel, the captors want the release of innocent civilians and refugees which Israel are breaking human rights laws by keeping as prisoners. If they are terrorists, fine. Prove it. But release the innocents.

To me, that is not unreasonable. I can understand that kidnappings are childish and somewhat catastrophic, but if Israel were to comply they would solve a lot of problems. However, Israel wouldn't do anything like that because it would mean being fair and giving the palestinians justice, which israel hates and despises.

And no, Hezbollah does not have the right to do such things. But neither does Israel. The ridiculous use of destruction is showing the world what they are: callous, crazy bastards that rather than target the enemy, they target civilans.

Infinity_Now

shiraz wrote:

Byrnzie YOU still haven't answered my question from last page, only kept bringing Chomsky's articales. here it is, for the third time:


"What would you say if Hizbollah did the same thing with soliders from US/England or other int forces in occuping Iraq? And what would you say if Hizbollah did the same with FORMER int armed forces in occuping Iraq, for example get into Spain, kill and kidnap their soliders? does it sound like an assistance to the Iraqi people? Is this justified? Does Hizbollah have the right to do such things?

Thanks.

========

And once again: Do you mind not bringing Chomsky's articales all the time? He writes about his point of view, his (unique) *opinions*, not necessarily facts. If I did the same thing with pro-Israeli intellectuals, you would probably call me biased, right?

Does Israel have the right to do such thing's?
Is this:
http://www.bubbleshare.com/album/47671/1356651/overview
Slaughter justified?

War is insane and each opposing party is equally responsible for every atrocity, every time. Human beings haven't evolved over thousands of years and struggled to survive countless wars before - just so we can go on building bigger bombs, more weapons, and killing more people - humanity needs to learn it's lesson, right now. We're able to stop war. ...

shiraz

Infinity_Now wrote:

Do you think Israel could have focused all its troops and guns and forces overnight? They could have - because they knew the enemies moves in advance, they're all planned out on a chessboard (so to say.)

You are insane. I guess you haven't heared about intelligence, ha? not to mention we began with nothing but the air force, ground troops came much later because there wasn't any plane. You are actually claiming we let our army reserve soliders to be kidnapped, and others to be killed by a group of terrorists just so we "can feed that insane death rattle in the pit of our Orwellian brains"?

God, you are a crazy miserable person. If we had a plane things would have looked better, hence there were 400 dead terrorists, not civilians.

Get a life, And some psychological help do deal with your conspiracy theories. What's next, black people slavery didn't happen? How pathetic.

shiraz

"British soldiers have been kidnapped in Iraq. British civilians have been kidnapped in Iraq":

Not by the Hezbollah, but by *Iraqi* armed forces.


"In the case of Israel, the captors want the release of innocent civilians and refugees which Israel are breaking human rights laws by keeping as prisoners. If they are terrorists, fine. Prove it. But release the innocents"

If Hezbollah wasn't a terror organization but a real political party, they should have tried using diplomacy first. And we don't need to prove anything - it is considered to be a terror organization by deffinition across the globe.
btw, those prisoners are mostly Hezbollah people, hence nothing close to "innocent civilians".

"To me, that is not unreasonable. I can understand that kidnappings are childish and somewhat catastrophic, but if Israel were to comply they would solve a lot of problems. However, Israel wouldn't do anything like that because it would mean being fair and giving the palestinians justice, which israel hates and despises"

Lebanon and Palestine are not related - different stories, different areas, but the same terror actions by Hamas & Hezbollah - "political parties" who are also acting as an armed forces, crossing Israeli border to kidnap and kill patrol soliders / army reserve soliders.

"And no, Hezbollah does not have the right to do such things" - Just what I wanted to hear, thank you.

"But neither does Israel" - News flash: we moved out of Lebanon in 2000, those prisoners (Hezbollah people = terrorists) were captured during the Lebanese war, and the release of most of them was included in what should have been Israel-Lebanon peace agreement. unfortunately Syria & Hezbollah didn't want Lebanon to have peace with us, so they killed the Lebanese prime minister Hariri.

"The ridiculous use of destruction is showing the world what they are: callous, crazy bastards that rather than target the enemy, they target civilans":

you also ment to Hezbollah's actions, right? or maybe you are also one of these one-sided persons? our response was unavoidable, but yet non measured. Hezbollah's action was avoidable & non measured. Deal with that.

Byrnzie

shiraz wrote:

Byrnzie YOU still haven't answered my question from last page, only kept bringing Chomsky's articales. here it is, for the third time:


"What would you say if Hizbollah did the same thing with soliders from US/England or other int forces in occuping Iraq? And what would you say if Hizbollah did the same with FORMER int armed forces in occuping Iraq, for example get into Spain, kill and kidnap their soliders? does it sound like an assistance to the Iraqi people? Is this justified? Does Hizbollah have the right to do such things?

Thanks.

========

And once again: Do you mind not bringing Chomsky's articales all the time? He writes about his point of view, his (unique) *opinions*, not necessarily facts. If I did the same thing with pro-Israeli intellectuals, you would probably call me biased, right?

Firstly, I didn't see your post on the previous page. Secondly, if you have a criticism of a particular point that Chomsky makes in the above article then please share it with us. And thirdly, if British or U.S soldiers were attacked by Hizbollah whilst engaging in an illegal military occupation of a soveriegn nation then I'd say that the British and U.S forces should leave. If Britain left Iraq but then decided to occupy, for example, Ireland, and proceeded to terrorize the Irish and subject them to daily humliations whilst bulldozing their homes and killing them at will, and Hizbollah then kidnapped some British soldiers and atempted to, in some way, assist the Irish, I'd understand, and in fact sympathise with Hizbollah. This is because I don't care a fuck about the criminal activities of my goverment and because I believe that human beings should aspire to some form of justice in this world. And justice should be universal and not dependent on race, creed, or 'country' - whatever 'country' means.
P.s, you really should read the above article by Chomsky. I think you'd find it useful.

Infinity_Now

shiraz wrote:

You are insane. I guess you haven't heared about intelligence, ha? not to mention we began with nothing but the air force, ground troops came much later because there wasn't any plane. You are actually claiming we let our army reserve soliders to be kidnapped, and others to be killed by a group of terrorists just so we "can feed that insane death rattle in the pit of our Orwellian brains"?

God, you are a crazy miserable person. If we had a plane things would have looked better, hence there were 400 dead terrorists, not civilians.

Get a life, And some psychological help do deal with your conspiracy theories. What's next, black people slavery didn't happen? How pathetic.

No.

I was HEAVILY GENERALIZING.

Where as you are hastily drawing conclusions about my opinions out of your ass.

I didn't say anything to the effect of:

a) my ignorance of intelligence - drawn out your ass

b) air force / ground troops = same thing, "force." - unjustified

c) "we" - not sure who you're refering to - sent our troops into combat, if they get kidnaped, well shucks, they got kidnapped with guns in thier hands and sights on the "enemy," well, yeah that sucks - but that's war.

d) Yes - we enter into war, knowing our side will experience losses/fatalities - hence, yes - we "can feed that insane death rattle in the pit of our Orwellian brains" because we are sending our troops to die.

e) I try not to be crazy or miserable - again you pulled that one out your ass

f) your statement about "having a plane then thing's would have looked better," totaly confounds me, I can't quite grasp what you're getting to.

g) 400 dead terrorists? where did you get that number? I've looked - I've been looking for 15 min now...

anyway - to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR WHAT I WAS SAYING,

"An eye for an eye leave the whole world blind." Wrap your mind around that one, bask in it's relative simplicity and relevant sincerity.

Israel...

god damn, not innocent here:

Israeli bombs and shells have killed more than 100 Lebanese civilians in the last few days and more than 89 Palestinians since June 25, 2006 while injuring hundreds more civilians in both countries;

Israel has bombed buses and cars carrying desperate civilians in Lebanon;

Israel has declared that “no place is safe” in Lebanon;

Israel has destroyed every road and bridge from the South to Beirut;

Israel has bombed the international highway between Damascus and Beirut as well as the airport and vital civilian infrastructure;

Israel has destroyed vital infrastructure including power plant, bridges and municipal
facilities in Gaza;

Israel has arrested and is detaining at least 65 elected Palestinian government officials...

They are killing civilians - not only terrorists. Just like Americans have killed thousand of innocent, completely innocent Iraqi civilians - as well as a few terrorists. The ends don't justify the means. Israel and U.S.A. have no right to call themselves just when thier atrocities more or less equal those of thier... our enemies. This whole thing is Orwellian, you've probably just not read the book.

shiraz

Byrnzie wrote:

Firstly, I didn't see your post on the previous page. Secondly, if you have a criticism of a particular point that Chomsky makes in the above article then please share it with us. And thirdly, if British or U.S soldiers were attacked by Hizbollah whilst engaging in an illegal military occupation of a soveriegn nation then I'd say that the British and U.S forces should leave. If Britain left Iraq but then decided to occupy, for example, Ireland, and proceeded to terrorize the Irish and subject them to daily humliations whilst bulldozing their homes and killing them at will, and Hizbollah then kidnapped some British soldiers and atempted to, in some way, assist the Irish, I'd understand, and in fact sympathise with Hizbollah. This is because I don't care a fuck about the criminal activities of my goverment and because I believe that human beings should aspire to some form of justice in this world. And justice should be universal and not dependent on race, creed, or 'country' - whatever 'country' means.

Hi,

1. There is no chance I'll listen to such a one sided-black or white person. Chomsky or Marzel - as far as I'm concerned they are basically the same. I'de rather find my answers in Al Jazeera, main news sites and... outside my window, since I'm living here in Haifa, the symbole of co-existence.

(sorry, a few missiles has just targeted the area near my house, I'll keep on writing later)

Infinity_Now

shiraz wrote:

Hi,

1. There is no chance I'll listen to such a one sided-black or white person. Chomsky or Marzel - as far as I'm concerned they are basically the same. I'de rather find my answers in Al Jazeera, main news sites and... outside my window, since I'm living here in Haifa, the symbole of co-existence.

(sorry, a few missiles has just targeted the area near my house, I'll keep on writing later)

Whoa buddy.

Sorry, I'm going to outright put my politics where my ass is and sit on them for a while, while I wish you good health and hopefully safety.

Again, best intentions.

Infinity_Now

One more thing,

As I put my shoes on to go on a morning jog, I turned the TV on and the "Life Wasted" video was on:

"You're always saying you're too weak to be strong."

Why can't Israel be strong enough to say, that is enough - no more violence. THAT WOULD DISCREDIT THE TERRORISTS - THAT WOULD BE THE SIGN OF THE STRONG MAN WINNING THE WAR BY ACHIEVING PEACE FIRST - THAT WOULD BE THE CRITERION OF CIVILIZATION FOR THE REST, THE TERRORISTS TO FOLLOW.

If war were too low for the superpowers... then what use would it be for the terrorists?

If the terrorists knew the superpowers would not fight back... then would they attack? If you believe they are truly animals, unreasonable opponents of civilisation, then maybe they still would... But they're not - they're defending themselves just as equally as Israel and the other superpowers defend us.

peace, there... thank you Pearl Jam.

shiraz

Infinity_Now wrote:

Whoa buddy.

Sorry, I'm going to outright put my politics where my ass is and sit on them for a while, while I wish you good health and hopefully safety.

Again, best intentions.

I am shocked. One of the missiles went into the yard of what was once my old house. I've got friends who still live there. One of them own a little local supermarket, right next to the hit-spot. He is OK, don't know how. Another was on her way to get inside the house when she heared the alarm. She was minor injured. Others were taken to the hospital cause of anxiety. Lots of ambulances, lots of police cars.

There were 16 missiles in this latest attack across Haifa. I don't know what to do. I just don't know.

PaperPlates

shiraz wrote:

I am shocked. One of the missiles went into the yard of what was once my old house. I've got friends who still live there. One of them own a little local supermarket, right next to the hit-spot. He is OK, don't know how. Another was on her way to get inside the house when she heared the alarm. She was minor injured. Others were taken to the hospital cause of anxiety. Lots of ambulances, lots of police cars.

There were 16 missiles in this latest attack across Haifa. I don't know what to do. I just don't know.

Im fairly amazed you still have the ability to get online. One bad rainstorm here, and my internet is down for hours.

Byrnzie

shiraz wrote:

I am shocked. One of the missiles went into the yard of what was once my old house. I've got friends who still live there. One of them own a little local supermarket, right next to the hit-spot. He is OK, don't know how. Another was on her way to get inside the house when she heared the alarm. She was minor injured. Others were taken to the hospital cause of anxiety. Lots of ambulances, lots of police cars.

There were 16 missiles in this latest attack across Haifa. I don't know what to do. I just don't know.

Man, is there any way you can get out of the country for a week or two, or until this shit blows over? (You can crash at mine if your able to put up with all the Chomsky books I've got laying around the place )

danmac

shiraz wrote:

I am shocked. One of the missiles went into the yard of what was once my old house. I've got friends who still live there. One of them own a little local supermarket, right next to the hit-spot. He is OK, don't know how. Another was on her way to get inside the house when she heared the alarm. She was minor injured. Others were taken to the hospital cause of anxiety. Lots of ambulances, lots of police cars.

There were 16 missiles in this latest attack across Haifa. I don't know what to do. I just don't know.

Don't go North to Lebanon, there be real rockets and bombs and death and destruction up there.

Thousands of rockets that are not much more powerful than a quarter stick of dynamite, who have no guidance systems, and what, 17 civilians dead? In a city of a million or so? Rather be in Haifa than Beirut or Tyre or anywhere in Lebanon.

And before anybody starts, no, i don't have an ounce of sympathy or empathy for somebody who supports the murderous actions of his/her government, who fails to accept that the 400 plus civilians killed in Lebanon is an aberration when placed against the so called crimes of the 'terrorists' his country is attacking.

I repeat; 400 lebanese civilians, nearly 200 in the Gaza and West Bank, against 17 dead Israelis.

Balanced?

jsand

danmac wrote:

Don't go North to Lebanon, there be real rockets and bombs and death and destruction up there.

Thousands of rockets that are not much more powerful than a quarter stick of dynamite, who have no guidance systems, and what, 17 civilians dead? In a city of a million or so? Rather be in Haifa than Beirut or Tyre or anywhere in Lebanon.

And before anybody starts, no, i don't have an ounce of sympathy or empathy for somebody who supports the murderous actions of his/her government, who fails to accept that the 400 plus civilians killed in Lebanon is an aberration when placed against the so called crimes of the 'terrorists' his country is attacking.

I repeat; 400 lebanese civilians, nearly 200 in the Gaza and West Bank, against 17 dead Israelis.

Balanced?

You are pathetic and morally bankrupt. Your willful ignorance of the fact that 1) a number of the purported "civilian" casualties are hezbollah fighters, 2) hezbollah fighters blend in with the civilian population and fire missiles from civilian homes, is abhorrent. Hezbollah's rockets are armed with ball bearings to inflict the most civilian casualties. Go to Haifa and enjoy yourself; live a day in an Israeli's shoes and you wouldn't be spouting such ridiculous nonsense.

danmac

jsand wrote:

You are pathetic and morally bankrupt. Your willful ignorance of the fact that 1) a number of the purported "civilian" casualties are hezbollah fighters, 2) hezbollah fighters blend in with the civilian population and fire missiles from civilian homes, is abhorrent. Hezbollah's rockets are armed with ball bearings to inflict the most civilian casualties. Go to Haifa and enjoy yourself; live a day in an Israeli's shoes and you wouldn't be spouting such ridiculous nonsense.

Book the flight, and im there. I'm white, il get along great in the 52nd state.
Hang on, i don't believe in wiping out other races and that I am of the chosen people. Hang fire before booking that window seat.

Number of Hezbolalh fighters killed is, according to the Israeli Government, 12.
Yes, 12. Which leaves 400 civilians. Against 17. Mmmmm....those pesky rockets, sorry, glorified firecrackers mustn't be as 'deadly' as your Fox reports tell you. Its all in the figures, trust me. Facts don't lie.

And I suppose the bombs the Israelis drop are full of flowers and chocolate?

I propose that, thanks to the media and the war mongerers in Washington and London, the threats on Israel are as pertinent as those on the UK or the US. Scare mongering. Look at the figures. Go on.

I propose, sir, that it is you whom is bankrupt of all morals, who is blind to the realities of the horrors being perpetrated in the name of 'war on terror'.

NCfan

danmac wrote:

Book the flight, and im there. I'm white, il get along great in the 52nd state.
Hang on, i don't believe in wiping out other races and that I am of the chosen people. Hang fire before booking that window seat.

Number of Hezbolalh fighters killed is, according to the Israeli Government, 12.
Yes, 12. Which leaves 400 civilians. Against 17. Mmmmm....those pesky rockets, sorry, glorified firecrackers mustn't be as 'deadly' as your Fox reports tell you. Its all in the figures, trust me. Facts don't lie.

And I suppose the bombs the Israelis drop are full of flowers and chocolate?

I propose that, thanks to the media and the war mongerers in Washington and London, the threats on Israel are as pertinent as those on the UK or the US. Scare mongering. Look at the figures. Go on.

I propose, sir, that it is you whom is bankrupt of all morals, who is blind to the realities of the horrors being perpetrated in the name of 'war on terror'.

The fact of the matter is that you hate America and Israel. You don't hate us for what we do, you hate us for what we are.

If you didn't, you would support us. It's not like there is no purpose to Israel's military action in Lebanon. You act as if the Israeli's are purposely trying to kill as many civillians as they can, as if they have no regard for human life at all. I mean, I'm sure it's all lies and Western propaganda that Israel has dropped leaflets all over the place telling the civillians to get out.

You play right into the terrorist hands. So I just figure that you are either too stupid to realize this, or you hate America and Israel and want the terrorist to win. You probably think Hizbollah has a right to exist and kill others.

shiraz

danmac wrote:

Don't go North to Lebanon, there be real rockets and bombs and death and destruction up there.

Thousands of rockets that are not much more powerful than a quarter stick of dynamite, who have no guidance systems, and what, 17 civilians dead? In a city of a million or so? Rather be in Haifa than Beirut or Tyre or anywhere in Lebanon.

And before anybody starts, no, i don't have an ounce of sympathy or empathy for somebody who supports the murderous actions of his/her government, who fails to accept that the 400 plus civilians killed in Lebanon is an aberration when placed against the so called crimes of the 'terrorists' his country is attacking.

I repeat; 400 lebanese civilians, nearly 200 in the Gaza and West Bank, against 17 dead Israelis.

Balanced?

Go live in Iraq, the country which your UK gov has being occuping & destroying for about 3-4 years, you little hypocrite miserable blinded "peace" activist. Do You wanna talk in numbers? well, start thinking about How many civilians have the UK slaughtered In Iraq since the bigining of your STUPID war there.

Now shut the hell up.

Puck78

danmac wrote:

Don't go North to Lebanon, there be real rockets and bombs and death and destruction up there.

Thousands of rockets that are not much more powerful than a quarter stick of dynamite, who have no guidance systems, and what, 17 civilians dead? In a city of a million or so? Rather be in Haifa than Beirut or Tyre or anywhere in Lebanon.

And before anybody starts, no, i don't have an ounce of sympathy or empathy for somebody who supports the murderous actions of his/her government, who fails to accept that the 400 plus civilians killed in Lebanon is an aberration when placed against the so called crimes of the 'terrorists' his country is attacking.

I repeat; 400 lebanese civilians, nearly 200 in the Gaza and West Bank, against 17 dead Israelis.

Balanced?

I don't find it wise to compare who killed more people. Being peace activist means to ask to stop the violence in both the sides, full stop.

danmac

shiraz wrote:

Go live in Iraq, the country which your UK gov has being occuping & destroying for about 3-4 years, you little hypocrite miserable blinded "peace" activist. Do You wanna talk in numbers? well, start thinking about How many civilians have the UK slaughtered In Iraq since the bigining of your STUPID war there.

Now shut the hell up.

When, where, and to whom have I ever supported this British Governments illegal actions in Iraq?

When, where, and to whom have I ever condoned the Iraqi 'insurgents', freedom fighters, for fighting this British Governments illegal actions in Iraq?

You are the one who defends murder by state, not me.

Civilians are dying in Iraq because of an illegal invasion

Civilains are dying in Lebanon following (yet another the third or fourth is it this time?) an act of illegal invasion and oppression.

What came first, an Israeli invasion of Lebanon, or the creation of Hezbollah?

danmac

NCfan wrote:

The fact of the matter is that you hate America and Israel. You don't hate us for what we do, you hate us for what we are.

If you didn't, you would support us. It's not like there is no purpose to Israel's military action in Lebanon. You act as if the Israeli's are purposely trying to kill as many civillians as they can, as if they have no regard for human life at all. I mean, I'm sure it's all lies and Western propaganda that Israel has dropped leaflets all over the place telling the civillians to get out.

You play right into the terrorist hands. So I just figure that you are either too stupid to realize this, or you hate America and Israel and want the terrorist to win. You probably think Hizbollah has a right to exist and kill others.

Where is this fact that says i hate Israel and America?

They are both beautiful countries with some wonderful people.

They are, however, both countries ran by right wing, neo con, war mongering corporate sponsored thieves who think they have the right to bomb, shoot, kill, maim, anybody that gets in their way.

I've spent more time in your country than you ever will in anybody elses. (THat is until you're drafted and packed off to Iran / Syria / Lebanon / Iraq *)

* delete as appropriate.