Hezbollah started this

ajedigecko

rightondude wrote:

Hehe, I try. Yeah, you're right. It's backpack bombing thing really gets me. That's insane, and I'll never understand it. For that reason alone I can see the logic in why people support Israel. I just can't get my head around what kind of people think strapping on bombs and going "poof" is glorified martyrdom. Especially around innocent people. They are really just killing themselves (and their own people) bother literally and figuratively.

Insane people doing insane things. Now is Isreal is making them insane like this? I dunno... what the hell to do about it all. sigh...

Glad I am where I am.

i agree with you, what the hell do we know about it all. while i was riding my bike a thought occured to me....

the thought plays out like this.

one person stands before you and has read everybook in print about climbing Mt. Everest and can speak eloquently about what you need to do in order to survive the climb.

the other person stands before you and has just completed the climb.

which person's wisdom will you listen?

indeed.......i am glad to be where i am as well.

be safe.

rightondude

reborncareerist wrote:

We've had some good discussions of this topic. In a nutshell, my personal belief is that while oppression can and often does fuel terrorism (especially the ideology behind it), it still takes a certain kind of (mentally unwell) person to commit a suicide bombing.

Just the thought that I could be sitting somewhere quietly in public having a coffee and some whacko walks and in sits down beside me, and boom I'm dead.

If people are going to be like that. Fuck em - sprinkle some ajax on a scouring pad and scrub them off the face of the earth.

Can anyone provide insight on what society of people would be justified in doing that, or even encouraged to?

I can't imagine anyone who does that is worth being allowed to exist here on this planet with the rest of us. \

Lebanon should be helping Israel eradicate this mindset as well

rightondude

ajedigecko wrote:

i agree with you, what the hell do we know about it all. while i was riding my bike a thought occured to me....

the thought plays out like this.

one person stands before you and has read everybook in print about climbing Mt. Everest and can speak eloquently about what you need to do in order to survive the climb.

the other person stands before you and has just completed the climb.

which person's wisdom will you listen?

indeed.......i am glad to be where i am as well.

be safe.

Good analogy. I'm doing a bunch of reading rigght now about the history, and development of Hezzbolah. It seems to be the crux of all this crud...

sourdough

shiraz wrote:

Its not good enough, this "mistrust of Israel" thing. You have to remember that Hezbollah is no Lebanese official army, they just took over southern Lebanon when Israel went there in 82, but unlike us they have never moved out. This is basically "Hezbollah-land" inside Lebanon, they are actually occuping Lebanese land and are doing what ever they feel like. Even Lebanese people (not all) are calling them "our cancer". Right now, they simply have no reason to be armed and no right to do these kind of things - not to us, not to Lebanon and not to anyone else.

I hope Its clear now, cause that's what I was really trying to say before - "mistrust of Israel" is really not a reason, its a lame excuse.

I don't think it is. Lebonese people don't all hate Hezbollah. Some do and some agree with them. Many people see Hezbollah as heroes for ridding Israel from their land and others believe that Israel may try and invade again. For this reason they have not disbanded. 2000 was not long ago nor enough time to conclude that Lebanon is safe from Israel again.

shiraz

sourdough wrote:

I don't think it is. Lebonese people don't all hate Hezbollah. Some do and some agree with them. Many people see Hezbollah as heroes for ridding Israel from their land and others believe that Israel may try and invade again. For this reason they have not disbanded. 2000 was not long ago nor enough time to conclude that Lebanon is safe from Israel again.

Many people? Worng. Maybe now after all of our bombing but before that? they were a minority, but it didn't stop from the Hezbollah to take over the parlament and do what ever they wanted as if they were in the lead. Again, you must remember that Hezbollah can't be both an armed millition & a political party in the parlament. There is a country, it is called Lebanon, it has its own official army - what Hezbollah felt or did not feel is really irelevant, they had no right to decide anything but to follow the UN call to disarm.

And lets not forget Israel gave Lebanon no reason for a "mistrust" since 2000. Leabanon & northern Israel started recovering, turists started to come (you wouldn't believe how many beautiful places we have here in northern Israel) , the economical situation went better and at one point the late prime minister of Lebanon Hariri & Sharon started talking about peace and the options of returning prisoners. It didn't happen - Hariri was murdered by Asad's (Syria) people in Lebanon. Do you know who once worked (and still is working) for Syria? Hezbollah . Hezbollah & Syria? well, they are working for Iran, the ones who want to wipe Israel off the earth. So basically, you think foreign crazy countries and their "little" workers have the right to determine the political & strategic stands in Lebanon, right?

And what with this "2000 was not long ago"? I can say that the Belfast Agreement (Good Friday Agreement in 1998) was not long ago either, but still the IRA got rid of its arsenal till 2005. So how about Australia who was once ruled by Great Britain decides that they actually want the IRA with his full force around? do you think their opinion should matter? do you think they have the right to *determine* such a thing in Irland?

IT IS LAME, no matter which way we're gonna look at it - Hezbollah lost his right to be an armed force 6 years ago, end of story.

Byrnzie

miller8966 wrote:

I truly feel sorry for the lebanese people but especially the israeli's...they never wanted this war until hezbollah had to engage the conflict

Ahh, yes. Those poor Israelis having to suffer the fate of killing innocent civilians at will. I really do pity them for the fact that they have no choice but to commit war crimes and destroy an entire country. I mean, just look at what the poor Israelis are having to do in the name of peace, democracy and freedom:

http://fromisraeltolebanon.info/

http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00170/p1-240706_170773a.jpg

Robert Fisk: A war crime?
This mother and son were in a convoy fleeing danger yesterday when the Israeli air force bombed the rear minibus, causing carnage.
Published: 24 July 2006

They are in the schools, in empty hospitals, in halls and mosques and in the streets. The Shia Muslim refugees of southern Lebanon, driven from their homes by the Israelis, are arriving in Sidon by the thousand, cared for by Sunni Muslims and then sent north to join the 600,000 displaced Lebanese in Beirut. More than 34,000 have passed through here in the past four days alone, a tide of misery and anger. It will take years to heal their wounds, and billions of dollars to repair their damaged property.

And who can blame them for their flight? For the second time in eight days, the Israelis committed a war crime yesterday. They ordered the villagers of Taire, near the border, to leave their homes and then - as their convoy of cars and minibuses obediently trailed northwards - the Israeli air force fired a missile into the rear minibus, killing three refugees and seriously wounding 13 other civilians. The rocket that killed them is believed to have been a Hellfire missile made by Lockheed Martin in Florida.

They are in the schools, in empty hospitals, in halls and mosques and in the streets. The Shia Muslim refugees of southern Lebanon, driven from their homes by the Israelis, are arriving in Sidon by the thousand, cared for by Sunni Muslims and then sent north to join the 600,000 displaced Lebanese in Beirut. More than 34,000 have passed through here in the past four days alone, a tide of misery and anger. It will take years to heal their wounds, and billions of dollars to repair their damaged property.

And who can blame them for their flight? For the second time in eight days, the Israelis committed a war crime yesterday. They ordered the villagers of Taire, near the border, to leave their homes and then - as their convoy of cars and minibuses obediently trailed northwards - the Israeli air force fired a missile into the rear minibus, killing three refugees and seriously wounding 13 other civilians. The rocket that killed them is believed to have been a Hellfire missile made by Lockheed Martin in Florida.
Article Length: 1038 words (approx.)

Byrnzie

miller8966 wrote:

This is a terrorist organization who has no respect for human life at all....hopefully israel gets the job done

The word 'terrorism' is used very freely these days to describe what 'they' do to 'us'. What 'we' do to 'them' isn't terrorism though is it. It's interesting that the only country to have been charged with state terrorism is the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_vs._United_States

shiraz

Byrnzie wrote:

Ahh, yes. Those poor Israelis having to suffer the fate of killing innocent civilians at will. I really do pity them for the fact that they have no choice but to commit war crimes and destroy an entire country. I mean, just look at what the poor Israelis are having to do in the name of peace, democracy and freedom:

Such a demagogic response from you, Byrnzie. As if Israeli civilians are responsible for the situation, as if we don't suffer as well, as if the Hezbollah didn't do anything to start this whole sad stroy, as if Israeli civilians can control their gov actions, as if Israelis don't care about what's also going on in Lebanon. I guess that after all, you are also one of these one-sided black or white people, what a disappointment.

Byrnzie

shiraz wrote:

Such a demagogic response from you, Byrnzie. As if Israeli civilians are responsible for the situation, as we don't suffer as well, as if the Hezbollah didn't do anything to start this whole sad stroy, as if Israeli civilians can control their gov actions. I guess that after all, you are also one of these one-sided black or white people, what a disappointment.

I didn't mean it like that. I was responding to the initial post on this thread in which Miller stated: "I cant believe it...they've brought all this damage and destruction against the people of lebanon. I truly feel sorry for the lebanese people but especially the israeli's...they never wanted this war until hezbollah had to engage the conflict."

This appears to place the blame for what is happening - including Israeli government and military crimes - upon Hizbollah, which I find to be a despicable viewpoint.

danmac

shiraz wrote:

Such a demagogic response from you, Byrnzie. As if Israeli civilians are responsible for the situation, as if we don't suffer as well, as if the Hezbollah didn't do anything to start this whole sad stroy, as if Israeli civilians can control their gov actions, as if Israelis don't care about what's also going on in Lebanon. I guess that after all, you are also one of these one-sided black or white people, what a disappointment.

What came first, an Israeli invasion of Lebanon, or the creation of Hezbollah?

shiraz

Byrnzie wrote:

I didn't mean it like that. I was responding to the initial post on this thread in which Miller stated: "I cant believe it...they've brought all this damage and destruction against the people of lebanon. I truly feel sorry for the lebanese people but especially the israeli's...they never wanted this war until hezbollah had to engage the conflict."

This appears to place the blame for what is happening - including Israeli government and military crimes - upon Hizbollah, which I find to be a despicable viewpoint.

Miller wrote "I feel sorry for the lebanese people but especially the israeli's". Israelis people, civilians.

Well, Hizbollah IS the first to blame for starting all of it. After all, there wasn't really something bad going on between us and the Lebanon since 2000, not even after the 2003 kidnapping of Israeli soliders inside Israel. But still, I think our unavoidable response should have been more measured - no doubt about it.


I still think your response (as well as Miller's) is demagogic.

Byrnzie

shiraz wrote:

Miller wrote "I feel sorry for the lebanese people but especially the israeli's". Israelis people, civilians.

Well, Hizbollah IS the first to blame for starting all of it. After all, there wasn't really something bad going on between us and the Lebanon since 2000, not even after the 2003 kidnapping of Israeli soliders inside Israel. But still, I think our unavoidable response should have been more measured - no doubt about it.


I still think your response (as well as Miller's) is demagogic.

So you don't think thaty the Israeli incursion into Gaza which resulted in massive destruction and loss of life could have triggered Hizbollah into action? I personally think it was about time that another arab country, or group - Hizbollah in this case - came to the assistance of the Palestinians.

Israel should have done a prisoner swap. Then no one would have needed to die.

ruud

Byrnzie wrote:

The word 'terrorism' is used very freely these days to describe what 'they' do to 'us'. What 'we' do to 'them' isn't terrorism though is it. It's interesting that the only country to have been charged with state terrorism is the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_vs._United_States

Yeah , i like the subject you brought up because its so easy for israel and america to point fingers and use the 'T' word. Terrorism, what is it? so because hizballah are terrorists they have to slaughter the lebanese people. Ah i see theyre klilling the lebaense people so that what is left is easier to identify as hizballah terorrists.
How many dam hizballah terrorists have they killed so far? do they even havea number? what 2? by mistake?? Oh look a cement truck bomb it! oh look at that woman and her child in disguise we musnt let her get away she might be a great grand nephew's cousins great uncles sisters boyfriend of hizballah descendants. Yes i am mocking the israeli strategy because they should be sued for war crimes. The thing about the arab world is at least we stick together as arabs and sometimes choose to let the religion get out of the way. take a look at lebanon, sure you got racism and the mockery of religion between people, but id like to see a more succeful state of peace than the one achieved in lebanon over the past decade where the country has strived together marched out in millions in a demonstration for the freedom of their country. Where? america? um sorry blacks votes cancelled in florida, i thought slavery was abolished. nations outside lebanon cannot blame the bgovernment for having to disarm hizballah. they have the support of two nations 4 times the size of lebanon so you tell us to go directly to hizballah? how can the government do that, when theyre trying to get rid of the source...Syria, and iran. but first we got syria out(or supposedly) anyone forget the assasination of our prime minister. for those of you who have been to lebanon, he built almost every building in site, at least he did osmething positive. and he was killed beacuse of his refusal to join the syrian regime. Now you dont call that standing up against syria and hizballah? you dont at least consider that one man inside the governemnt at least tried to refuse syria and hizballah's contron of our country. well they killed him. good on you israel and america for nto saying anything about that. now how come you get to go along and complain that the government should interfere.
And then shriaz you talked about pain of th eisraeli. sure teveryone suffers pain but what type of pain. im talking abouit running from home, bodies on the street fire and rubble. not oh whats going to happen to the value of my home, or where am i going to go for my summer vacation this time. In my opinion shiraz ISRAEL has yet to FEEL the pain they have put on the Palestinians and the Lebanese. no way anyone could ever covince me otherwise because you would have compleltly ignored what has happened this last week, whast has been going on the the poor palestinians who defend themselves with goddam rocks and yet you still believe that you can match fire with fire. sorry lads its not fire its a kid throwing a rock at a tank, and the tank turning around and blowing him to bits because he threatened. to the israeli's i say take a look at yourselves and be ashamed. how can you not be. we understand you have the right to defend your coutnry but not to demolish another in justification. that is a war crime. you have the right to claim land (palestine conflict) but not to kill the people in order to get it. Do they hoesntly believe that after all these years the palestinains will give up, to me they have proved th emost relentless coruageous brave people on the face of this planet. no marine or soldier of any kind could withstand what they are going through and the misery of having the world put your life on mute and look away. do these soldiers not feel? do the pilots of these jets not think twice about their family. that is the last thingid like to say about israelis and americans. whenever the bullet is turned on you it is something compeltlyl absurd! like if someone from mexico were to drop a bomb on an american terrirotory all hell would break loose. no kidnapping no mercy. just like here. however if some israeli's decide to nuke a few arabs thats fine so long as they can cover it up with a good enough excuse. but they have teams for that; its called the bush administration.

shiraz

Byrnzie wrote:

So you don't think thaty the Israeli incursion into Gaza which resulted in massive destruction and loss of life could have triggered Hizbollah into action? I personally think it was about time that another arab country, or group - Hizbollah in this case - came to the assistance of the Palestinians.

Israel should have done a prisoner swap. Then no one would have needed to die.

No. Hamas killed Israeli solideres & kidnapped Gilad Shalit inside Israel in a place called Kerem Shalom, which is an Israeli supervision point near Egypt-Palestinian border (Rafich) and a part of Israel-Palestinian authority agreement during the Gaza withdrawal.

Hizbollah got inspired and acted the same in the Lebanese border. Hizbollah acts for "the sake" of southern Lebanon, and as a terror organization who also oppose to Israel's right to exsit, it will obviously support everything Hamas stands for. However - it is one thing to support, and another thing to take advantage of the situation for your own dark motives.

What would you say if Hizbollah did the same thing with soliders from US/England or other int forces in occuping Iraq? And what would you say if Hizbollah did the same with FORMER int armed forces in occuping Iraq, for example get into Spain, kill and kidnap their soliders? does it sound like an assistance to the Iraqi people? Is it justified? Does Hizbollah have the right to do such things?

And again, please don't forget Hizbollah, like the IRA, was ordered to get rid of its arsenal after we/England moved out of lebanon/northern Irland. IRA kept its part, Hizbollah did the opposite.

danmac

shiraz wrote:

No. Hamas killed Israeli solideres & kidnapped Gilad Shalit inside Israel in a place called Kerem Shalom, which is an Israeli supervision point near Egypt-Palestinian border (Rafich) and a part of Israel-Palestinian authority agreement during the Gaza withdrawal.

Hizbollah got inspired and acted the same in the Lebanese border. Hizbollah acts for "the sake" of southern Lebanon, and as a terror organization who also oppose to Israel's right to exsit, it will obviously support everything Hamas stands for. However - it is one thing to support, and another thing to take advantage of the situation for your own dark motives.

What would you say if Hizbollah did the same thing with soliders from US/England or other int forces in occuping Iraq? And what would you say if Hizbollah did the same with FORMER int armed forces in occuping Iraq, for example get into Spain, kill and kidnap their soliders? does it sound like an assistance to the Iraqi people? Is it justified? Does Hizbollah have the right to do such things?

And again, please don't forget Hizbollah, like the IRA, was ordered to get rid of its arsenal after we/England moved out of lebanon/northern Irland. IRA kept its part, Hizbollah did the opposite.

The British army didn't continue oppressing, killing, imprisoning, torturing, embargoing, arresting the Irish though.

And i hate to say it, but the IRA, as far as i am aware, have not decommissioned. Hence the lock up in talks at stormont. If youare ever on the wrong side of oppression, Shiraz, you may find how hard it is for the oppressed to trust those that oppressed them to keep their word. Why should hezbolah disarm? The Israeli Defence Force won't.

farfromglorified

danmac wrote:

Why should hezbolah disarm? The Israeli Defence Force won't.

This is well stated.

shiraz

"so because hizballah are terrorists they have to slaughter the lebanese people":

No, as I said many times before (including this thread), hizballah's actions required A reaction, me and most Israeli public think our unavoidable response was not measured, but besides having a massive protest (there was one yesterday in Tel Aviv) about it there is nothing we can do - the damage has been done.


"oh look at that woman and her child in disguise we musnt let her get away she might be a great grand nephew's cousins great uncles sisters boyfriend of hizballah descendants":

Funny, during one of the ground operations 2 or 3 days ago, the IDF found a severe wounded Lebanese woman and her child, rescued both of them and transfered them into an Israeli hostpital. I guess this stories are easy to ignore, ha?


"Yes i am mocking the israeli strategy because they should be sued for war crimes. The thing about the arab world is at least we stick together as arabs and sometimes choose to let the religion get out of the way":

Sometimes, really? Well, I wish. Really, I'm not kidding.

"Take a look at lebanon, sure you got racism and the mockery of religion between people, but id like to see a more succeful state of peace than the one achieved in lebanon over the past decade where the country has strived together marched out in millions in a demonstration for the freedom of their country":

Everything here is true, but you forgot something - Lebanese people & gov did it all except releasing from Hizbollah-Syria-Iran cables. If the arab world is so united, then how come no one helped you to get rid of Lebanon's chains? have you ever really asked for help?

"anyone forget the assasination of our prime minister. for those of you who have been to lebanon, he built almost every building in site, at least he did osmething positive. and he was killed beacuse of his refusal to join the syrian regime. Now you dont call that standing up against syria and hizballah? you dont at least consider that one man inside the governemnt at least tried to refuse syria and hizballah's contron of our country. well they killed him":

Check up one of my posts in page 5 or 6 of this thread, I actually metioned the whole thing but no one except me, an Israeli women, thought it worth further discussion.


"And then shriaz you talked about pain of the israeli. sure teveryone suffers pain but what type of pain. im talking abouit running from home, bodies on the street fire and rubble. not oh whats going to happen to the value of my home, or where am i going to go for my summer vacation this time. In my opinion shiraz ISRAEL has yet to FEEL the pain they have put on the Palestinians and the Lebanese":

50% of northern Israel run away (including my brothers and sisters family), the other 50% actually lives in shelters - like me. I'm not even gonna try claiming you are suffering less than we do, but get this - BOTH of us are suffering, both of us got casualties and demolished houses. would it make you feel better if 300 Israeli civilians would die? I don't think so. I know the people around here don't wish the Lebanese people any bad things to happen, and are really opposing to hurting innocent civilians.


"no way anyone could ever covince me otherwise because you would have compleltly ignored what has happened this last week, whast has been going on the the poor palestinians who defend themselves with goddam rocks":

Both Israel and palestinian are to blame, its not as simple as you display it, and it is irelevant to what's going on in Lebanon.

"and yet you still believe that you can match fire with fire. sorry lads its not fire its a kid throwing a rock at a tank, and the tank turning around and blowing him to bits because he threatened"

And throwing rockets to Israeli town of Sderot, and sending suicide bombing across Israel, kidnap civilians and soliders... do you want me to continue? Like I said, it is not a black or white situation.


"to the israeli's i say take a look at yourselves and be ashamed. how can you not be":

But we are, and if you had just bothered to read any of my posts or actually talk to the average Israeli man, you would have knowen it.


"they hoesntly believe that after all these years the palestinains will give up, to me they have proved th emost relentless coruageous brave people on the face of this planet"

We don't want them to give up, we want them to have their own country, that's why we offered them one in 1997, that's why we moved out of Gaza, that's why we were suppose to get out of other areas, however Hamas decided to launch rockets at Sderot instead of continuing with the diplomatic process that Sharon had started with Abu Mazen. Once ogain, we are not the only one to blame.


"no marine or soldier of any kind could withstand what they are going through and the misery of having the world put your life on mute and look away"

Believe it or not, no one really cares about Israeli civilians either, not even our gov. Putting my life on mute is something that I wish I wouldn't feel. The problem is, I feel that way almost everyday of my life.


"do these soldiers not feel? do the pilots of these jets not think twice about their family?"

Does the Hamas have feelings? don't they care about the Israeli civilians and their family before bombing themself? don't thay care about sending 14-15 or 16 years old kids to bomb themself up? what about puting little Palestinian children in the front thier guns? Again, both sides are to blame.

"if someone from mexico were to drop a bomb on an american terrirotory all hell would break loose. no kidnapping no mercy. just like here. however if some israeli's decide to nuke a few arabs thats fine so long as they can cover it up with a good enough excuse"

I don't think someone really thinks that way, I know for sure that Israeli civilians don't, and so are many other civilians & nations across the globe.



Take care,


Shiraz

shiraz

farfromglorified wrote:

This is well stated.

IDF is the official army of a country called Israel, Lebanon defence army IS the official army of Lebanon. Hizballah is A group of terrorists who took over Southern Lebanon just as we did, but unlike us thay never left nor disarmed like they were told to. You can not be an armed force & a political party - end of story.

shiraz

danmac wrote:

The British army didn't continue oppressing, killing, imprisoning, torturing, embargoing, arresting the Irish though.

And i hate to say it, but the IRA, as far as i am aware, have not decommissioned. Hence the lock up in talks at stormont. If youare ever on the wrong side of oppression, Shiraz, you may find how hard it is for the oppressed to trust those that oppressed them to keep their word. Why should hezbolah disarm? The Israeli Defence Force won't.

Neither did we in Lebanon, we moved out in 2000. And you didn't answer my question:

"What would you say if Hizbollah did the same thing with soliders from US/England or other int forces in occuping Iraq? And what would you say if Hizbollah did the same with FORMER int armed forces in occuping Iraq, for example get into Spain, kill and kidnap their soliders? does it sound like an assistance to the Iraqi people? Is it justified? Does Hizbollah have the right to do such things?"

But then again, I didn't expect you will.

thankyougrandma

shiraz wrote:

No. Hamas killed Israeli solideres & kidnapped Gilad Shalit inside Israel in a place called Kerem Shalom, which is an Israeli supervision point near Egypt-Palestinian border (Rafich) and a part of Israel-Palestinian authority agreement during the Gaza withdrawal.

Hizbollah got inspired and acted the same in the Lebanese border. Hizbollah acts for "the sake" of southern Lebanon, and as a terror organization who also oppose to Israel's right to exsit, it will obviously support everything Hamas stands for. However - it is one thing to support, and another thing to take advantage of the situation for your own dark motives.

What would you say if Hizbollah did the same thing with soliders from US/England or other int forces in occuping Iraq? And what would you say if Hizbollah did the same with FORMER int armed forces in occuping Iraq, for example get into Spain, kill and kidnap their soliders? does it sound like an assistance to the Iraqi people? Is it justified? Does Hizbollah have the right to do such things?

And again, please don't forget Hizbollah, like the IRA, was ordered to get rid of its arsenal after we/England moved out of lebanon/northern Irland. IRA kept its part, Hizbollah did the opposite.

Part of the UN resolution that is saying that Hezbollah must be disarm also state that Lebanon and the Lebanese army must get help to do so, it didn't happen, yet people forget that little paragraph very easily and point the finger at Lebanon govt. to justify the attacks... You cannot start to kill civillians because two soldiers have been kidnap, it's a crime, and it's a simple concept that someone would need to explain to the Israel govt. Or maybe just arrest the PM or the army commander, that would send a message to prevent more state to defend themselves by killing civillians (Iraq/Bush).

Now Hezbollah are the only efficient humanitarian organisation in Lebanon, they're giving refuge to those who flee from home, who do you think these peoples will support in the future?

It's like a huge chain of bad decisions...