Hezbollah started this

rebornFixer

Kenny Olav wrote:

From Wikipedia's article on Hezbollah:

Hezbollah (Arabic: ??? ?????, meaning Party of God) is a Lebanese Shia Islamist group and political party, with a military arm and a civilian arm, founded in 1982 to fight the Israeli Defense Forces who occupied southern Lebanon until the year 2000 and are still occupying the disputed Shebaa Farms area in south Lebanon.

...

The United States, Britain and Israel consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization but throughout most of the Arab and Muslim worlds, Hezbollah is highly regarded as a legitimate resistance movement. [10]. The Lebanese government confirmed it as a legitimate resistance against occupation.[11] [12] Even 74 percent of Lebanese Christians viewed Hezbollah as a resistance organization.





By the way, the source for the stat that shows 74% of Lebanese Christians view Hezbollah as a resistance organization is the U.S. State Department!

...

A resistence to what, though? Maybe at the time Israel invaded in 1982, this argument had some validity. Now, Hezbollah is a squatter in Lebanese territory. If indeed the Lebanese government was cool with Hezbollah before, I wonder if that view has changed any now?

keeponrockin

miller8966 wrote:

THe problem is that the arab world is a world still living or wanting to live in the 7th century...Arabs fuck up all the time and whenever they do they can put the blame on the jews...its always been their scape goat.

Its like a drug addict who blames society for his problems but isnt man enough to stop doing drugs.

Drug problems are harder to kick than you think.

Scratchin a Letter

miller8966 wrote:

THe problem is that the arab world is a world still living or wanting to live in the 7th century...Arabs fuck up all the time and whenever they do they can put the blame on the jews...its always been their scape goat.

Its like a drug addict who blames society for his problems but isnt man enough to stop doing drugs.

Miller, do you know what the current death toll is for both sides??

have a look at this site: fromisraeltolebanon.info

Israel started this shit, they started the whole conflict fifty years ago. Whilst I do not agree that Israel should be wiped off the map, a large proportion of its government and people should be locked away and punished for their persistent abuse of human rights.

Your use of the term "Arabs" offends me, please use "terrorists" instead.

And maybe balance your output, Fox news is not the most reliable of sources.

shiraz

Ahnimus wrote:

They aren't precision rockets. They don't have the technology of the Israelis and the US. They are targetting military, however due to their rockets unsophisticated design they are indiscriminate. In contrast to Israel's precision strikes on civilian populations, I don't see that as atrocious.

FYI, they do have lots of rockets. I know. They are shooting at my home town and at the rest of northern Israel. the rockets are made in Syria and Iran and so far there isn't any technology who can shoot them down. They also have many other weapons made in Iran, such as UAV's, directed missiles etc'.

I really don't understand you. simple rockets or advanced ones - they are all designed to kill, and Hezbollah is only targeting them toward Israeli civilians.


*edit: Kenny Olav

Hezbollah was announced as a terror agroup by the UN, Canada, U.S, Britain, Australia and Israel. It is considered to be a 'militant group that is involved in acts of terror' within other western countries, so I don't really see your point.

The disputed place called Shebaa Farm is actually belongs to Syria (according the UN, Israel and Syria itself), not to Lebanon, and is mainly acts a an excuse for the Hezbollah to keep their military power. Note that this place wasn't even mentioned too much by the Hezbollah in the latest events.

miller8966

Scratchin a Letter wrote:

Miller, do you know what the current death toll is for both sides??

have a look at this site: fromisraeltolebanon.info

Israel started this shit, they started the whole conflict fifty years ago. Whilst I do not agree that Israel should be wiped off the map, a large proportion of its government and people should be locked away and punished for their persistent abuse of human rights.

Your use of the term "Arabs" offends me, please use "terrorists" instead.

And maybe balance your output, Fox news is not the most reliable of sources.

Israel did not start this...the war was aggresion on the part of Hezbollah

denverfan

ajedigecko wrote:

Hezbollah continues to launch rockets, aimlessly, into Israel??????

WTF......why are they not launching at the Israeli troops that are within their borders?

Just a simple question, from a simpleton.

Wondering that myself? Instead of attacking the military they're attacking civi's.???

NMyTree

miller8966 wrote:

I cant believe it...they've brought all this damage and destruction against the people of lebanon. I truly feel sorry for the lebanese people but especially the israeli's...they never wanted this war until hezbollah had to engage the conflict

May hezbollah rot in hell for the destructon theyve caused

......that was our roving reporter, live on the scene, in the Middle East. Thank you, miller8966. Miller8966 has been in the Middle East for 70 years now and has been covering the conflict there, ever since Gene Simmons told him to hate Muslims. His contribution to our news broadcast is highly regarded and often the source of great laughter.

...and now a word from our sponsers.

" Are you having a not-so fresh day? "

ajedigecko

Ahnimus wrote:

They aren't precision rockets. They don't have the technology of the Israelis and the US. They are targetting military, however due to their rockets unsophisticated design they are indiscriminate. In contrast to Israel's precision strikes on civilian populations, I don't see that as atrocious.

i understand that the rockets are not precise. so if i were in the situation of using indiscriminate rockets if would aim at a close target. i most definitely would not aim at targets far away.

again. i am just a simpleton using simpleton logic.

be safe.

darkcrow

who gives a fuck abuot blame? blaming people doesnt solve the problem. there needs to be a mutual unconditional ceasefire... innocents on both sides are being murdered.

something else that pissed me off.... bush said something along the lines of iran has been the main sponsor of hezbollah and so is bad etc etc.... irish americans have been the main sponsors of IRA terrorists that led a murderous campaign against civilians in britian for years.... does bush crack down on that? NO.... does the senate ratify an extrodition treaty that will allow the british govt to extrodite IRA murderers? NO.....so bush, get off your moral high horse and clean up your own back garden.

you know the day he vetoed the stem cell funding bill saying murder is wrong, he backed the isralies to murder more lebonease civilians... i guess if you are not american or jewish your life doesnt mean much...

Ahnimus

miller8966 wrote:

Saudi arabias wahhabi doctrine of islam wants to bring the world back to the time of mohhamed. DO a little research on it...

So... we are talking about Saudi Arabia now?

Listen, I don't condone violence, war is the most disgusting thing we've ever created. It's sickening that we focus on the technologies of criminal scientists while the ground-breaking discoveries of zero-point energy and wireless power remain locked away in vaults. This is all a cruel joke. We haven't the slightest chance of knowing the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Half of what is printed in the history books and at least half of what we think we know are lies. You can get a slice of truth from every corner of the world and it still won't make up the whole truth. The war of 1812 as it is referred to in Canadian history is called the American War in the United States. The war ran from 1812-1814, a relatively short war, I used it as a single example of selective truth. In American history it's taught that it was a revolutionary war against Britain for land sovereignty. In Canadian history it was when the US tried to invade Canada and we got help from the Brittish. The president of the United States declared to Canada "You are either with us or against us." and Canada went against. The US led a full-scale invasion into southern Ontario, the main battle point was London, Ontario. London still has military bases and military within the city. The threat of US invasion still exists. What we are dealing with are governments that are highly susceptible to corruption and populations that are highly subjected to lies and propaganda. During the Nazi reign of Germany the network of german media was nowhere near as vast as the United States. However Hitler following the principles of Himmler managed to gain the sympathy for war and motivated the populace into attempted world domination. Germany is not like that anymore, it went through a series of drastic changes. Germany now has several US military strongholds from which forces were mobilized to fight in Iraq. The United States practically dominates german television. Documents were found in germany that suggested Hitler's own men set fire to the reichstag, which was the main reason for war. We've seen throughout history countless incidents of "False Flag" operations, the government stages an attack and blames it on a foreign entity. As people, as pro-nation and pro-humanity, we have to look at every thing that happens seriously and with scrutiny. The Constitution and Bill of Rights in the United States of America is intended to restrict government and allow the people to hold the government responsible. Your right to bare arms is your right to defend yourself from a police state. I admire that about the USA, Canada takes a much more "humanitarian" approach, but I argue, guns don't kill people, people kill people and they will use a pencil if they are serious about doing it. For the sake of scrutiny and liberty you must look at all sides of the story, look at what Hezbollah is saying, look at what Israel is saying, look at their history together. Place yourself in the shoes of both parties and try to get a feeling for their grief. O'reilly used this analogy "imagine mexicans have rockets pointed at you" fair enough, imagine that, that would suck and they probably do. With 90% certainty I can tell you Russia has nuclear warheads aimed at you and you have nukes aimed at Russia. Imagine illegal immigrants enter your country and continue to grow in a specified region, after a few years they declare themselves independant, taking a large chunk of the United States. You take up arms and attempt to drive them out, but they are too strong, they push the battle back onto your land. After the war is over, the land is theirs and the United Nations says it is. Over the next 45 years they continue to expand and gain pieces of your land, destroying your homes and colonizing in their place. At some point you realize that all you have left is a small chunk of land that you must share with millions of other people, under the rule of a foreign entity, living in poverty, struggling to survive. How would you react? How does the story end? Historically, speaking of native indians in North America, you lose, they take over, dominating you, you hope they don't completely destroy you and in the very best case, you get reperations for the damage. So yes, it does suck to have missiles aimed at you, it sucks from all perspectives. "Hezbollah attacked first" is not the root cause, it's not even a speck of truth. "Hezbollah are terrorists" not even close, criminals?, yes, but not terrorists. No more terrorists than Israel or the United States.

Anyway, I can't talk about it anymore right now. It's just disgusting how this conflict is perceived. It's a damn shame to call ourselves sophisticated or humane. People like to feel big, bigger than others, as countries I see this all the time. America: We are strong, we are free, we are generous, Canada: We are peaceful, we bring aid, we keep the peace. Americans tend to pride themselves on their wealth as a country, their military power and hollywood. Canadians pride themselves on peaceful superiority, and constantly bash the United States to make themselves bigger. The same thing happens in society, people talk negatively behind coworkers backs, lie, cheat and steal to keep up with the Jones'. This is our reality, that we have to come to grips with first, to be able to understand someone else.

Ahnimus

darkcrow wrote:

who gives a fuck abuot blame? blaming people doesnt solve the problem. there needs to be a mutual unconditional ceasefire... innocents on both sides are being murdered.

something else that pissed me off.... bush said something along the lines of iran has been the main sponsor of hezbollah and so is bad etc etc.... irish americans have been the main sponsors of IRA terrorists that led a murderous campaign against civilians in britian for years.... does bush crack down on that? NO.... does the senate ratify an extrodition treaty that will allow the british govt to extrodite IRA murderers? NO.....so bush, get off your moral high horse and clean up your own back garden.

you know the day he vetoed the stem cell funding bill saying murder is wrong, he backed the isralies to murder more lebonease civilians... i guess if you are not american or jewish your life doesnt mean much...

Bush... Bush... You know, it's quite apparent to me that Bush is.. well he's a moron ethically, but in the sense of Hitler he's quite brilliant. He's a people person, good 'ol texas boy that likes to shoot dear and he acts very personable. He is a good frontman, but not a good leader. The real problem lies in the administration as a whole. Political parties rarely change, new faces take the forefront but the same key players are calling the shots. In Canada we elected Stephen Harper, a friendly looking guy, but not much besides that. With him is the same old criminals behind Brian Mulroney. Guys like Stockwell Day. With Bush you have Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Powell, etc.. It's the same crap over and over again, like a bad record. Arguably the best president the United States ever had was John F Kennedy, RFK could have been a good one too. Andrew Jackson had good goals and Abraham Lincoln was great too. What happened to freedom in the United States? What happened to care? I know the answer, Bush cremated care at the bohemian grove.

rightondude

reborncareerist wrote:

We are putting quotes around "Israel", now? Alrighty.

It could be done for any country or politician as well. The central banks own all the weapons, factories, land, assets, (i.e. everything imaginable) and they really call all the shots.

Depends on the authors intention, I assume he was referring to US govt's sticky fingers and constant showering of weapons to Israel. Easy to see given the facts and statistics in this regard.

LikeAnOcean

People started this.

rightondude

reborncareerist wrote:

Good question ... I think the answer probably gets right at the heart of Hezbollah's goals. A military or a militia would focus on fighting the invaders. A terrorist group would choose to kill civilians instead.

You're hilarious. Do you even have any idea what's going on over there?

rightondude

ajedigecko wrote:

i understand that the rockets are not precise. so if i were in the situation of using indiscriminate rockets if would aim at a close target. i most definitely would not aim at targets far away.

again. i am just a simpleton using simpleton logic.

be safe.

?? How are they going to get close to armored tanks and long range machine guns without getting killed instantly?

yes perhaps you are a simpleton... :P

rightondude

Ahnimus wrote:

So... we are talking about Saudi Arabia now?

Listen, I don't condone violence, war is the most disgusting thing we've ever created. It's sickening that we focus on the technologies of criminal scientists while the ground-breaking discoveries of zero-point energy and wireless power remain locked away in vaults. This is all a cruel joke. We haven't the slightest chance of knowing the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Half of what is printed in the history books and at least half of what we think we know are lies. You can get a slice of truth from every corner of the world and it still won't make up the whole truth. The war of 1812 as it is referred to in Canadian history is called the American War in the United States. The war ran from 1812-1814, a relatively short war, I used it as a single example of selective truth. In American history it's taught that it was a revolutionary war against Britain for land sovereignty. In Canadian history it was when the US tried to invade Canada and we got help from the Brittish. The president of the United States declared to Canada "You are either with us or against us." and Canada went against. The US led a full-scale invasion into southern Ontario, the main battle point was London, Ontario. London still has military bases and military within the city. The threat of US invasion still exists. What we are dealing with are governments that are highly susceptible to corruption and populations that are highly subjected to lies and propaganda. During the Nazi reign of Germany the network of german media was nowhere near as vast as the United States. However Hitler following the principles of Himmler managed to gain the sympathy for war and motivated the populace into attempted world domination. Germany is not like that anymore, it went through a series of drastic changes. Germany now has several US military strongholds from which forces were mobilized to fight in Iraq. The United States practically dominates german television. Documents were found in germany that suggested Hitler's own men set fire to the reichstag, which was the main reason for war. We've seen throughout history countless incidents of "False Flag" operations, the government stages an attack and blames it on a foreign entity. As people, as pro-nation and pro-humanity, we have to look at every thing that happens seriously and with scrutiny. The Constitution and Bill of Rights in the United States of America is intended to restrict government and allow the people to hold the government responsible. Your right to bare arms is your right to defend yourself from a police state. I admire that about the USA, Canada takes a much more "humanitarian" approach, but I argue, guns don't kill people, people kill people and they will use a pencil if they are serious about doing it. For the sake of scrutiny and liberty you must look at all sides of the story, look at what Hezbollah is saying, look at what Israel is saying, look at their history together. Place yourself in the shoes of both parties and try to get a feeling for their grief. O'reilly used this analogy "imagine mexicans have rockets pointed at you" fair enough, imagine that, that would suck and they probably do. With 90% certainty I can tell you Russia has nuclear warheads aimed at you and you have nukes aimed at Russia. Imagine illegal immigrants enter your country and continue to grow in a specified region, after a few years they declare themselves independant, taking a large chunk of the United States. You take up arms and attempt to drive them out, but they are too strong, they push the battle back onto your land. After the war is over, the land is theirs and the United Nations says it is. Over the next 45 years they continue to expand and gain pieces of your land, destroying your homes and colonizing in their place. At some point you realize that all you have left is a small chunk of land that you must share with millions of other people, under the rule of a foreign entity, living in poverty, struggling to survive. How would you react? How does the story end? Historically, speaking of native indians in North America, you lose, they take over, dominating you, you hope they don't completely destroy you and in the very best case, you get reperations for the damage. So yes, it does suck to have missiles aimed at you, it sucks from all perspectives. "Hezbollah attacked first" is not the root cause, it's not even a speck of truth. "Hezbollah are terrorists" not even close, criminals?, yes, but not terrorists. No more terrorists than Israel or the United States.

Anyway, I can't talk about it anymore right now. It's just disgusting how this conflict is perceived. It's a damn shame to call ourselves sophisticated or humane. People like to feel big, bigger than others, as countries I see this all the time. America: We are strong, we are free, we are generous, Canada: We are peaceful, we bring aid, we keep the peace. Americans tend to pride themselves on their wealth as a country, their military power and hollywood. Canadians pride themselves on peaceful superiority, and constantly bash the United States to make themselves bigger. The same thing happens in society, people talk negatively behind coworkers backs, lie, cheat and steal to keep up with the Jones'. This is our reality, that we have to come to grips with first, to be able to understand someone else.

Nice one dude. Say it like it is man. Those would appear to be your words, and I couldn't agree more. I wonder when they eyes of the stubborn will finally open and awake in this regard?

Ignorance is bliss they say...

Abookamongstthemany

reborncareerist wrote:

Good question ... I think the answer probably gets right at the heart of Hezbollah's goals. A military or a militia would focus on fighting the invaders. A terrorist group would choose to kill civilians instead.

Hezbollah lacks the proper funding and technology to target anything really. I don't think they have much 'guided' anything.

moegossard

israel wanted a pretext... it got its pretext... 10 members of the security council condemn israel's excessive attacks... of course, minus the US... hezebollah was wrong to do what it did... but i have no sympathy for israel after this... sadly many more civilians will be killed... but hey we can argue about it on the message board of a early 90s rock band... that's always fun...

shiraz

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Hezbollah lacks the proper funding and technology to target anything really. I don't think they have much 'guided' anything.

Ok, that's it. Do you guys really bother to actally read other's posts?

I wrote it over and over again (even in this specifuc thread) - Hezbollah has Iran as a main funder, which means L-O-T-S of money. They also have advanced missiles from Iran & Syria, the kind that no technology can shoot down, and they are using these missiles to fire at C-I-V-I-L-I-A-N-S in northern Israel. The more advanced technology such as guided missiles, UAV's etc' is mainly used against the IDF, along with other "regular" weapons.

Allow me to repeate my own words:

"I really don't understand you. simple rockets or advanced ones - they are all designed to kill, and Hezbollah is only targeting them toward Israeli civilians"

Yesterday Hezbollah had *direct* hits on several civilians houses so you see, they don't really missinig the target.

Abookamongstthemany

shiraz wrote:

Ok, that's it. Do you guys really bother to actally read other's posts?

I wrote it over and over again (even in this specifuc thread) - Hezbollah has Iran as a main funder, which means L-O-T-S of money. They also have advanced missiles from Iran & Syria, the kind that no technology can shoot down, and they are using these missiles to fire at C-I-V-I-L-I-A-N-S in northern Israel. The more advanced technology such as guided missiles, UAV's etc' is mainly used against the IDF, along with other "regular" weapons.

Allow me to repeate my own words:

"I really don't understand you. simple rockets or advanced ones - they are all designed to kill, and Hezbollah is only targeting them toward Israeli civilians"

Yesterday Hezbollah had *direct* hits on several civilians houses so you see, they don't really missinig the target.

I don't think they have the capabilities to really target anything specificially as opposed to Israel's billion dollar military funded by the US. I think they shoot missiles, but I don't think they can really pinpoint actual targets.

Here's what i did find on actual targets and the drone:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=hezbollah%20drone&sa=N&tab=wn

They all say a warship was targeted.

I also found this:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/481ydesv.asp
"And while early reports that an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) was responsible for the attack on the Israeli warship were inaccurate, Hezbollah is still assumed to possess several UAVs."

I think the majority of their aresnal can not pinpoint specific targets.