Hezbollah started this

rightondude

Woodstock69 wrote:

Ha Ha Ha Ha !!! this one's really funny !!! Hey man ! Don't be so Naive , and don't trust every word that the journalists on Fox News say !!!

Man ! "Hezbollah" is not a terrosist organization but a resistance . Maybe you tend to forget that Israel is collonising a big part of the south of lebanon , and also a big part of "syria" and a big part of "egypt" and collonising the whole palestine ! Man , those poeple are suffering since 50 years , they've been taken all that they have , and nobody talked about that ! While you are sitting there , drinking a beer in front of your TV , Hundreds of poeple are dying ,innocent Kids and Women . so you don't have the right , I say you don't have the fucking right to say this " Hopefully Israel gets the job done" Who do you think you are ? I'm really upset when i hear those kind of things !!! tell me ! you don't have heart or what !? please keep those kind of thoughts to yourself , I bet nobody here wants to hear what you have to say !!!

I wish I could have your experience over there. It would be very interesting to see firsthand. I don;t know what to think but I think after reading your post I think I'm seeing the repeating pattern throughout history. There is so much misinformation going on, it reminds me of another government I know... If what you sat about Israel opressing and expanding around the region is true, then I do see the picture now. And I do believe I've been fed Pro Israeli propaganda from various sources.

hmm.. Interesting. My first gut instinct was against Israel.

shiraz

Puck78 wrote:

there's plenty of UN resolution against Israel occupation and Israel has an army... so, through your definition, because Israel has an army and don't respect the UN resolutions, should be considered a terror organization...

It's interesting how people of a nation which government is oppressing other people start to turn against those people too: see for example Serbs in Kosovo: before 1999 also civilian serbs committed human rights violations. It's a shame that you keep a blind eye on what your government is doing, shiraz

But I am not!!!

"
- Can you admit that you are there by force? That Israel has stolen the land?

- I already did, in MANY MANY posts that you didn't actually bother to read. We are in Lebanon now cause of the Hezbollah, there is no Israeli occupation in Lebanon since 2000, but we are still occuping lands in southern Isreal for really no good reason"

I am well aware to what's going on in Gaza area, and I'm also aware to what's going on right now in southern Israeli town of Sderot, Northern Israel and in Lebanon. I am not trying to justifay the killing of civilians, I never cliamed there is no occupation in the Gaza area. The only thing I keep saying is that Hezbollah IS a terror organization by all definitions since 2000 - end of story.

The IDF gets orderes from our gov, the same way US army and the rest of int armed forces in occupied Iraq do. Should we call them terrorists as well? I don't know. Are they just as bad as the Hezbollah? I don't know. All I know is that Hezbollah (non official army who acts via Lebanon) lost any reason to be an armed force since 2000, and the IDF or the US army (=Official army of a country) didn't.

sourdough

shiraz wrote:

I was claer - they have no reason to exist as a terror organization since we moved out of Lebanon in 2000, hence no reason to be an armed force, but this is just what they are.

And all of the talking about other work - well, even if its true (which I find it hard to believe), I can say the exact thing about bin laden's organization. After all, we heard the same things about it too.

Great, 2 people were killed about 20 minutes ago in the latest Haifa attack. at least 2 hits were directed.

I'm assuming that they maintain their military wing due to their mistrust of Israel due to their less than stellar history. 2000 was not that long ago and their is still lots of bitterness and anger after many civilians were killed.

I sympathize with your situation and that your country is in the thick of things as well, but I cannot see Israel as only a victim when there have been hundreds of civilian Lebonese casualties at the expense of ony a dozen or so intended targets. This is not a measured or equal response. Even if Hezbollah is mostly destroyed, this will only conjure up more extremism/radicalism and hate towards Israel in a country that has been peaceful. Hezbollah was created in the same conditions that are presented now, so there will be a new Hezbollah soon enough I'm afraid.

thankyougrandma

miller8966 wrote:

I cant believe it...they've brought all this damage and destruction against the people of lebanon. I truly feel sorry for the lebanese people but especially the israeli's...they never wanted this war until hezbollah had to engage the conflict

May hezbollah rot in hell for the destructon theyve caused

sure, may all those who intentionally push a buttons that in the end killed an innocent civillians rot in hell...

PearlJam134

Is any news fair and just? Nothing we have will give us the truth.

shiraz

sourdough wrote:

I'm assuming that they maintain their military wing due to their mistrust of Israel due to their less than stellar history. 2000 was not that long ago and their is still lots of bitterness and anger after many civilians were killed.

I sympathize with your situation and that your country is in the thick of things as well, but I cannot see Israel as only a victim when there have been hundreds of civilian Lebonese casualties at the expense of ony a dozen or so intended targets. This is not a measured or equal response. Even if Hezbollah is mostly destroyed, this will only conjure up more extremism/radicalism and hate towards Israel in a country that has been peaceful. Hezbollah was created in the same conditions that are presented now, so there will be a new Hezbollah soon enough I'm afraid.

Israel & Lebanon are BOTH the victims of a TERROR organization called hezbollah, I never said our response is measured , only we had the right to perform AN act. In fact, I've said more than once that I think our response is not measured, but that still doesn't change the fact that we HAD to responed to these events.

"I'm assuming that they maintain their military wing due to their mistrust of Israel due to their less than stellar history. 2000 was not that long ago and their is still lots of bitterness and anger"

So THAT gives the hezbollah the right to cross the Israeli border, kill and kidnap soliders? Are you kidding me? Well, according to that logic we should expect similar acts with Irland-England, right?

god...

Ahnimus

shiraz wrote:

Israel & Lebanon are BOTH the victims of a TERROR organization called hezbollah, I never said our response is measured , only we had the right to perform AN act. In fact, I've said more than once that I think our response is not measured, but that still doesn't change the fact that we HAD to responed to these events.

"I'm assuming that they maintain their military wing due to their mistrust of Israel due to their less than stellar history. 2000 was not that long ago and their is still lots of bitterness and anger"

So THAT gives the hezbollah the right to cross the Israeli border, kill and kidnap soliders? Are you kidding me? Well, according to that logic we should expect similar acts with Irland-England, right?

god...

Every story I've read says that Israeli troops crossed the border and the fighting took place in Israel. Still that's like if I bust down your door and let myself in, then run back outside and expect you not to do anything about it.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

Every story I've read says that Israeli troops crossed the border and the fighting took place in Israel. Still that's like if I bust down your door and let myself in, then run back outside and expect you not to do anything about it.

Really? Because I've encountered only ONE source that suggests that the first battle with Hezbollah in which the 2 soliders were kidnapped took place in Israel, and it was posted on here. Every other source (including many Arabic ones) claim that Hezbollah (encouraged by the initial kidnapping) attacked into Israel first, probably intending to open a second front in Lebanon.

thankyougrandma

Israel had to do something but they've simply blown up the whole country which is an insane reaction and have been proven not to work in the past. Israel govt. definitly commited war crimes in Lebanon toward Lebanese civillians. Again, they had the right to protect themselves, but also responsabilities towards civillians. If a terrorist live next to my house, nobody have the RIGHT to kill me because of it. If it happens, then i hope justice and trial will be set.

I have no doubt that if they arrest Hezbollah chief, he'll respond to a court, sadly it won't be the same for the Israel govt. Bravo to the Israeli who condemn those attacks, even if they are a visible minority.

sourdough

shiraz wrote:

Israel & Lebanon are BOTH the victims of a TERROR organization called hezbollah, I never said our response is measured , only we had the right to perform AN act. In fact, I've said more than once that I think our response is not measured, but that still doesn't change the fact that we HAD to responed to these events.

So THAT gives the hezbollah the right to cross the Israeli border, kill and kidnap soliders? Are you kidding me? Well, according to that logic we should expect similar acts with Irland-England, right?

god...

I actually agree with you. Israel did have to respond, but they went too far and the casualties have been indiscrimminate. Secondly I did NOT say that the Israeli occupation gives Hezbollah the right to kidnap soldiers. What I did say is that the reason why they have not disbanded their military wing is because of their mistrust of Israel. No where did I say anything that justified the kidnappings or criminal actions of Hezbollah. Read the post again.

Cosmo

Wait a minute...
Wasn't the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon touted by President Bush and the people who continually suck his cock as a 'Good' thing for the Middle East... even when here were those of us who thought, while ruled with an iron fist, Syria was at least keeping Hezbolah and those other radical fucks under wraps. Democracy in Lebanon allows Hezbolah to gain power in the region... the same way Democracy in Gaza brings Hamas to power and in Iraq... don't act surprized when down he road, they elect a fucking fundamentalist Islamic cleric like Al Sadr or one of his cohorts to power.

shiraz

sourdough wrote:

I actually agree with you. Israel did have to respond, but they went too far and the casualties have been indiscrimminate. Secondly I did NOT say that the Israeli occupation gives Hezbollah the right to kidnap soldiers. What I did say is that the reason why they have not disbanded their military wing is because of their mistrust of Israel. No where did I say anything that justified the kidnappings or criminal actions of Hezbollah. Read the post again.

Its not good enough, this "mistrust of Israel" thing. You have to remember that Hezbollah is no Lebanese official army, they just took over southern Lebanon when Israel went there in 82, but unlike us they have never moved out. This is basically "Hezbollah-land" inside Lebanon, they are actually occuping Lebanese land and are doing what ever they feel like. Even Lebanese people (not all) are calling them "our cancer". Right now, they simply have no reason to be armed and no right to do these kind of things - not to us, not to Lebanon and not to anyone else.

I hope Its clear now, cause that's what I was really trying to say before - "mistrust of Israel" is really not a reason, its a lame excuse.

Abookamongstthemany

Cosmo wrote:

Wait a minute...
Wasn't the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon touted by President Bush and the people who continually suck his cock as a 'Good' thing for the Middle East... even when here were those of us who thought, while ruled with an iron fist, Syria was at least keeping Hezbolah and those other radical fucks under wraps. Democracy in Lebanon allows Hezbolah to gain power in the region... the same way Democracy in Gaza brings Hamas to power and in Iraq... don't act surprized when down he road, they elect a fucking fundamentalist Islamic cleric like Al Sadr or one of his cohorts to power.

Silly Cosmo, they are only free to choose what we want them to choose....

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

Wait a minute...
Wasn't the withdrawal of Syrian troops from Lebanon touted by President Bush and the people who continually suck his cock as a 'Good' thing for the Middle East... even when here were those of us who thought, while ruled with an iron fist, Syria was at least keeping Hezbolah and those other radical fucks under wraps. Democracy in Lebanon allows Hezbolah to gain power in the region... the same way Democracy in Gaza brings Hamas to power and in Iraq... don't act surprized when down he road, they elect a fucking fundamentalist Islamic cleric like Al Sadr or one of his cohorts to power.

Good points about the possible ill effects of democracy in Lebanon. I don't know if Syria deserves any credit for holding back Hezbollah, though.

slightofjeff

I don't know where I stand on this personally. It really is a bunch of kindergarten crap. "they started it" "no they did." ....

However, I usually tend to side with Israel in such conflicts. For the most part, Israel is fighting to be left alone, fighting for its survival. If people would leave Israel alone, I don't think they would go about bombing people.

Most of the other forces against it -- Hezbollah in this instance -- is fighting for the destruction of Israel. They don't want peace. They want every Jew dead. If you leave Hezbollah alone, they will continue killing Israelis.

So ... although I can see how both sides are doing bad shit, I tend to side with the folks fighting for survival, and not fighting for destruction.

Cosmo

slightofjeff wrote:

I don't know where I stand on this personally. It really is a bunch of kindergarten crap. "they started it" "no they did." ....

However, I usually tend to side with Israel in such conflicts. For the most part, Israel is fighting to be left alone, fighting for its survival. If people would leave Israel alone, I don't think they would go about bombing people.

Most of the other forces against it -- Hezbollah in this instance -- is fighting for the destruction of Israel. They don't want peace. They want every Jew dead. If you leave Hezbollah alone, they will continue killing Israelis.

So ... although I can see how both sides are doing bad shit, I tend to side with the folks fighting for survival, and not fighting for destruction.

...
Sort of like who started the street war... the Crips or the Bloods, right? It ends up being swapping drive-bys in revenge for a revenge for a... who started this shit?
And you know who needs to step up and say, "FUCK THIS SHIT"... the Arabs not tied to radicals that are sick of this shit and are tired of seeing their people killed. Israel is not without fault and they also need to step up and admit to doing some fucked up shit.
But, they won't... they are BOTH assholes in my book... just like the fuckers in cars shooting up the place in their own neighborhoods. Assholes, all.

ajedigecko

rightondude wrote:

?? How are they going to get close to armored tanks and long range machine guns without getting killed instantly?

yes perhaps you are a simpleton... :P

good point, with staying away from armored tanks and long range machine guns.

they should stay in cognito and walk into a cafe and detonate a backpack. there is much more honor in this process.

by the way.........i did like your rubliks cube/ying yang analogy.

be safe.

lukin2006

Ahnimus wrote:

I am simply providing you with a motive. How can you believe that Hezbollah even exists for the purpose of "destroying Israel". Listen I know Hezbollah and Hamas have said Israel should be destroyed. You have to understand the angst in the region, people say all kinds of things when they are pissed off and don't know how to resolve a problem. What we are looking at here is the motive, from the mouth of the resistance. How can you believe as a decent human being that all these arabs are that inhumane? Have you ever been to the region? Do you know any arabs? They aren't violent people by "nature" they are distressed. What you see is the cause, in their words, they are telling you their motives and you discredit it because they said it.

Not violent. LMAO. Danish newspapers printed cartoons and other nespapers followed, and they tried to burn the planet to the ground.

rightondude

ajedigecko wrote:

good point, with staying away from armored tanks and long range machine guns.

they should stay in cognito and walk into a cafe and detonate a backpack. there is much more honor in this process.

by the way.........i did like your rubliks cube/ying yang analogy.

be safe.

Hehe, I try. Yeah, you're right. It's backpack bombing thing really gets me. That's insane, and I'll never understand it. For that reason alone I can see the logic in why people support Israel. I just can't get my head around what kind of people think strapping on bombs and going "poof" is glorified martyrdom. Especially around innocent people. They are really just killing themselves (and their own people) both literally and figuratively.

Insane people doing insane things. Now is Isreal is making them insane like this? I dunno...is it really that bad? what the hell to do about it all. sigh... What fucked up belief teaches people to do this kind of thing?

Glad I am where I am.

rebornFixer

rightondude wrote:

Hehe, I try. Yeah, you're right. It's backpack bombing thing really gets me. That's insane, and I'll never understand it. For that reason alone I can see the logic in why people support Israel. I just can't get my head around what kind of people think that is glorified martyrdom. They are really just killing themselves (and their own people) bother literally and figuratively.

Insane people doing insane things. Now is Isreal is making them insane like this? I dunno... what the hell to do about it all. sigh...

Glad I am where I am.

We've had some good discussions of this topic. In a nutshell, my personal belief is that while oppression can and often does fuel terrorism (especially the ideology behind it), it still takes a certain kind of (mentally unwell) person to commit a suicide bombing.