Ever think how strange saying the Pledge of Allegiance is..?

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  • Larry Zisstans
    Larry Zisstans Posts: 167
    anyone else find it absofuckinlutely hillarious how some people just cannot handle open debate?

    this thread made me think of that.

    oh, and yes, i think saying the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE is very strange.

    peace
    lz
    The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. The ride goes up and down, around and around, it has thrills and chills, and it's very brightly colored, and it's very loud, and it's fun for a while. Many people have been on the ride a long time, and they begin to wonder, "Hey, is this real, or is this just a ride?" And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and say, "Hey, don't worry; don't be afraid, ever. Because this is just a ride." And we...kill those people. "Shut him up! I've got a lot invested in this ride, shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry, look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real." It's just a ride. But we always kill the good guys who try and tell us that, you ever notice that? And let the demons run amok? But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride. And we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings of money. Just a simple choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, to a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defenses each year and instead spend it feeding and clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would pay for many times over, not one human being excluded, and we could explore space, together, both inner and outer, forever, in peace.
    --Bill Hicks
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    WickedJeremy wrote:
    Freedom of speech of this kind imposes too much on others and the young and yet unconditioned. You are not free if your actions of freedom impose on others.

    That's ridiculous. It's like suggesting that you are not free because sometimes it rains. Freedom isn't a measure of control over others or your environment, it is a measure of control of self.
    I have made it more than clear how the flag salute IS actually an imposition. Like I said, a kid feels very weird when he chooses not to worship a flag. It is unfair to that child. On the other hand, it is in no way unfair to those that wnat to say it. They don't have to say it at school. Say it at home when they rise. Say it in your head. Say it on the way home. Why impose it upon others? Why laugh in the faceof freedom by continuing a radition that causes just discomfort? Take it out of school, just be done with it. Why is that so horrible a thing?

    It is not imposed on others just because it exists within the same environment. Again, in the cases where children are forced to do this, I'll agree with you. I've seen nothing to suggest that those instances are anything but few and far between.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Principles such as respect are instilled by parents. Only after many years of reeducating oneself does one realize respect is earned and it shouldn't override one's own personal freedom. So feeling as if it is against the teacher's rules to not stand and fear of punishment where there shouldn't be any are big factors in the decision to stand.

    Principles are instilled by life and the concomittant experience that comes with it. Parents are only one possible source.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    hippiemom wrote:
    Oh, but you can! It's even easier if you start early.

    A human body will breathe when able. Barring monks with decades of practice behind them, people can only control their breathing within a very slim margin. If there is air available, your body is going to get it. The same cannot be said for liberty. It's quite possible to beat freedom out of most small children. I've certainly seen it happen more than a few times.

    It's also quite possible to beat the breath out of a child. I wouldn't recommend that any more than beating freedom out of them.
    At the age of 6 or 7, it doesn't extend from "an individual's principles." Some kids are more outgoing than others. Some are bolder than others. Some kids will be punished if the teacher calls home to complain about their behavior, others will not.

    And what, pray tell, is responsible for those differnces?
    Are you honestly trying to tell me that early elementary-aged children have well thought out principles?

    No. I'm trying to tell you not to prevent them from forming those principles.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    WickedJeremy wrote:
    EXACTLY!

    Okay, how do children learn the POWER of their choice?

    By suffering the consequences of that choice.
    DO they realize its power when they make a good decision?

    Certainly.
    But what about when they make a really bad decision?

    Certainly.
    So, how do we avoid making bad decision?

    By learning which decisions run counter to our purposes, of course.
    It has been proven, that when in doubt, a human will follow the pack...

    Ok. Then why make that pack stronger?
    What kid is going to keep sitting there?

    One who has no interest in standing. One who is learning that self respect is based on your standards, not someone else's reactions.
    In this light of truth, the pledge in school is at least...a bad choice.

    Then encourage kids not to make it. But don't force its abolition on those who disagree with you.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    WickedJeremy wrote:
    The hell you say! Nothing fundamentally wring with nationalism.?!

    Yes. Pride in nation is not a bad thing when that nation deserves pride.
    Disband the schools? What better single action could be taken than that? This country needs an entire reformation of the school system.

    Very much so, yes.
  • Jeremy2009
    Jeremy2009 Posts: 53
    WickedJeremy wrote:
    Oh yeah! I do not believe we shold allow children to recite this ritual. I understand it programs them at an early age to bein concordance witht the government. This is why it is done, it is good from a single and empty point of view.

    The reason I am against children saying it? This is a verbal bond. AN pledge of literal allegiance. A devoutness to stand united with the United States of America. A child has not yet seen the world. How closed-minded to assume this is the best country! A child must know his/her options before making such a promise to an unseen entity.

    Same way with baptism.

    The relation between the two is enough for me to question it all anyway. But what do I know? I have a tongue in my cheek.

    The pledge itself is flawed. How can this be "one nation under God". Indivisible? The hell it is. We're split right down the middle on everything.

    I dont see your view. I think America is the best country in the world. By saying that I dont mean that I support everything that Bush has done ...hell no. I support the military and by that I mean the people (servicemembers and families) who are sacraficing so much so that other people can enjoy the freedoms that so many take for granted. When I said the pledge every morning in school I didnt say it and think about the left or right parties who think this is some kind of game. I thought about all the good that America stands for. I thought about how lucky I am to watch TV and hear positive and negative things about our politics and government. I thought how lucky I am to live in a country that if I dont believe in the relegion that I was brought up to that I wont be killed for denouncing god later. With that being said I dont mean other countries are inadequate. Any country that promotes freedom in all aspects of life is a wonderful country. I currently have the opportunity to live overseas in S. Korea. I love it here, the people of S. Korea are free to protest the politicians in the streets of downtown Seoul and dont need to worry about their families getting tortured later that evening. Fifty miles north though is a different situation. People dont have enough food, people are dying for no reason other than their dictator is a heartless coward.
    I look foward to hearing your thoughts on my little rant here.

    -John
    Support the Troops
    Go Cubs!
  • WickedJeremy
    WickedJeremy Posts: 229
    Oh well.

    Whatever.

    Nevermind.

    hello helllo how low
    -Jeremy
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    Where I live there is no pledge of allegiance, not that I know of... I don't know the words to the national anthem, in fact I personally don't know anybody who does...
    so to me it is a little strange and the "one nation under god" is very strange in my opinion.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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