Ever think how strange saying the Pledge of Allegiance is..?

Pearl Jam and toast

We say the same pledge, every day, at the same time (in school) for at least 12 years.. everyone (well.. ideally everyone) goes to school and is trained to do this...

Ever think how bizzare and cult-like this practice is?

WickedJeremy

Oh yeah! I do not believe we shold allow children to recite this ritual. I understand it programs them at an early age to bein concordance witht the government. This is why it is done, it is good from a single and empty point of view.

The reason I am against children saying it? This is a verbal bond. AN pledge of literal allegiance. A devoutness to stand united with the United States of America. A child has not yet seen the world. How closed-minded to assume this is the best country! A child must know his/her options before making such a promise to an unseen entity.

Same way with baptism.

The relation between the two is enough for me to question it all anyway. But what do I know? I have a tongue in my cheek.

The pledge itself is flawed. How can this be "one nation under God". Indivisible? The hell it is. We're split right down the middle on everything.

jlew24asu

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

We say the same pledge, every day, at the same time (in school) for at least 12 years.. everyone (well.. ideally everyone) goes to school and is trained to do this...

Ever think how bizzare and cult-like this practice is?

while I can see how bizzare it may look, it is something to keep us unified as a country. no one faces jail time for not saying.

Pearl Jam and toast

jlew24asu wrote:

it is something to keep us unified as a country.

How the hell does it do that? It doesn't do anything like that.

no one faces jail time for not saying.

Well of course it's not illegal, but i'd say it's certainly immoral. Little kids aren't gonna question saying it and some people are so well programmed by this that they get pissed off when other's don't say it with them even at an old age (like some teachers of mine for example..).

If a cult family raised their kids to say some off the wall praise since they could talk you'd think it was pretty loopy.

WickedJeremy

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

How the hell does it do that? It doesn't do anything like that.

Yeah, that sounds like some kind of propagandish conditioning to me. No one considers the pledge. They don't even listen to what they are saying. They are reciting a program that makes them feel "at one" and it gives them a false sense of security.

jlew24asu

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

How the hell does it do that? It doesn't do anything like that.



Well of course it's not illegal, but i'd say it's certainly immoral. Little kids aren't gonna question saying it and some people are so well programmed by this that they get pissed off when other's don't say it with them even at an old age (like some teachers of mine for example..).

If a cult family raised their kids to say some off the wall praise since they could talk you'd think it was pretty loopy.

I think it does. you think its doesnt. agree to disagree. that happens. in this country you have to the right to not say it if you choose. you can even tell your kids to not stand and turn their back to the flag. have at it. thats the best part about this country.

Lesbelges

When I came to the US from Europe (for 4th and 5th grade), they made me say the pledge of allegiance even though I am Italian and am not going to pledge allegiance to any country but Italy. Damn fascists! I don't mind if they just let you stand with everyone else and stay silent out of respect though.

Pearl Jam and toast

jlew24asu wrote:

I think it does. you think its doesnt. agree to disagree. that happens. in this country you have to the right to not say it if you choose. you can even tell your kids to not stand and turn their back to the flag. have at it. thats the best part about this country.

They have the freedom not to say it..

but they're fucking 4 and 5 year olds!

They're going to say it!

And saying the damn thing for 12 years is a manipulative, cultist thing to do. (is "cultist" a word? )

It's brainwashing.

moeaholic

is there any god damn thing people will not whine and moan about here? anything at all?

RockinInCanada

moeaholic wrote:

is there any god damn thing people will not whine and moan about here? anything at all?

If people were not here to complain or discuss why the hell have the forum in the first place.....

miller8966

Lesbelges wrote:

When I came to the US from Europe (for 4th and 5th grade), they made me say the pledge of allegiance even though I am Italian and am not going to pledge allegiance to any country but Italy. Damn fascists! I don't mind if they just let you stand with everyone else and stay silent out of respect though.

Well its pretty easy- If you want to pledge allegiance to only italy why dont you just live in italy? Honestly if Italy is so great than stay there.

mca47

miller8966 wrote:

Well its pretty easy- If you want to pledge allegiance to only italy why dont you just live in italy? Honestly if Italy is so great than stay there.

Give me a break.

Abookamongstthemany

It is brainwashing, especially considering they never dicuss with the children what it is they are actually saying and never ask if the children if they want to recite it or not. Children are taught to obey their teachers so most do as they are told...they are afraid to not say it. It's absurd anyways making a 5 year old recite something they can not fully grasp yet and has not even been explained to them. They don't teach children to think for themselves, they teach them to follow and obey. Here say this because we say so!!.....and we wonder why they end up lacking in the intelligence department. :rolleyes:

Vedderlution_Baby

I suppose you consider it brainwashing. I also suppose you couldn't. No, there isn't a god damn thing people won't COMPLAIN about. As for telling the dude to stay in italy...come on. He said he was forced to say it in the 4th or 5th grade. You really think he had the option not to come to the U.S.?

miller8966

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

I suppose you consider it brainwashing. I also suppose you couldn't. No, there isn't a god damn thing people won't COMPLAIN about. As for telling the dude to stay in italy...come on. He said he was forced to say it in the 4th or 5th grade. You really think he had the option not to come to the U.S.?

He said the only flag he would pledge to would be italy. All i said was that if Italy was so great why didnt his parents stay there?

Probaly cause AMerica has given them a different and better opportunity than italy could

Vedderlution_Baby

miller8966 wrote:

He said the only flag he would pledge to would be italy. All i said was that if Italy was so great why didnt his parents stay there?

Probaly cause AMerica has given them a different and better opportunity than italy could

Well, I don't know the circumstances of his situation but just because he feels that Italy is the best country, his parents obviously didn't. Obviously, he can't make the sort of decision that would enable him to stay in Italy. But I understand what you're saying. I'm not trying to fight you, just showing both sides.

enharmonic

I'm not sure of what the flag stands for anymore :(

especially that whole "and justice for all" part.

miller8966

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Well, I don't know the circumstances of his situation but just because he feels that Italy is the best country, his parents obviously didn't. Obviously, he can't make the sort of decision that would enable him to stay in Italy. But I understand what you're saying. I'm not trying to fight you, just showing both sides.

Ok i understand

Blanche

I was taught the pledge of allegiance in kindergarten and recited it diligently until the 6th grade when I realised I never really listened to the words and it was absurd to pledge allegiance to a country of which I wasn't a citizen.

Until then, I had never questioned the words. And that's the problem. As little kids, we are taught the Pledge of Allegiance and the Star Spangled Banner, but not their meaning. We are conditioned to think of the US as the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, the Land of Opportunity and purple waves of grain.

(By the way, when I went to Catholic school, we didn't recite the pledge of allegiance at all, but we did have to say an occasional prayer.
The nuns handed me a few dittos and said, "Here are the prayers we recite."
And I thought, "Here we go again...")

miller8966

Blanche wrote:

I was taught the pledge of allegiance in kindergarten and recited it diligently until the 6th grade when I realised I never really listened to the words and it was absurd to pledge allegiance to a country of which I wasn't a citizen.

Until then, I had never questioned the words. And that's the problem. As little kids, we are taught the Pledge of Allegiance and the Star Spangled Banner, but not their meaning. We are conditioned to think of the US as the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, the Land of Opportunity and purple waves of grain.

(By the way, when I went to Catholic school, we didn't recite the pledge of allegiance at all, but we did have to say an occasional prayer.
The nuns handed me a few dittos and said, "Here are the prayers we recite."
And I thought, "Here we go again...")

Its an american tradition...why is it wrong for america to have traditions yet when any other country has a tradition and the people of that country bring it to america we must respectt it as "unique" when deep down we know it sucks.

Abookamongstthemany

miller8966 wrote:

Its an american tradition...why is it wrong for america to have traditions yet when any other country has a tradition and the people of that country bring it to america we must respectt it as "unique" when deep down we know it sucks.

We are just saying it should be explained and offered as a choice. The teachers don't do either of those.