"""You're asking everyone else to conform to your idea of right and wrong. If conformity is your enemy, demand the right of every individual to choose their actions and accept the consequences accordingly."""
You are speaking paradoxically. How can I respond?
Stop pretending there is a paradox in individuality.
"""Good for you. Now why pretend that others can't do the same?"""
What?!
You managed to become a free-thinker while being subject to these things, yes? Why pretend that others cannot?
"""You can say fuck America as much as you'd like."""
You aren't even listening.
I understand that you said you're not saying fuck America. But the right to say anything (or to remain silent) extends from the recognition of others to do the same. That was my point.
"""The ideal nation in one that respects the individuals that comprise it as equal entities responsible for their lives and their will. At that point, the nation extends naturally from the individual. At that point ,I'd pledge my life to my country for the same reason I'd pledge my life to myself."""
I see many paths my friend. I don't fall in many holes. You are trying to dig holes in front of me. Maybe you don't believe yourself and are just trying to have a good time, but your philosophy falls into itself almost childlike.
G'night
I have no interest in putting holes in front of you. However, I do have an interest in preventing you from burying the world in your vision of right and wrong.
reading through the rest of this thread there's a commonality. "the teachers never told us we didn't have to say it, the teachers never told us what it was we were reciting." where the fuck were your parents? i can't remember what grade i was in (way too long ago), but i do remember asking my mom what the pledge of allegiance meant and she told me. through my 12 years of schooling, i never witnessed a teacher reprimand someone for not standing and reciting the pledge. not that there were constantly people not participating, but there were some sprinkled in through junior high and high school. i'm sick and tired of some of the posts around here. "oh, it's brainwashing, they're controlling you." oh, fuck off. it's not a cult, it's not brainwashing, it's a fucking poem. get a grip. if you don't like it, don't say it. if you have kids and don't want them to say it, tell them not to (which, incidentally, is the same damn thing some are complaining about...telling children to do something when they should be making up their own mind.)
what's wrong with a little pride in your country?
RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
reading through the rest of this thread there's a commonality. "the teachers never told us we didn't have to say it, the teachers never told us what it was we were reciting." where the fuck were your parents? i can't remember what grade i was in (way too long ago), but i do remember asking my mom what the pledge of allegiance meant and she told me. through my 12 years of schooling, i never witnessed a teacher reprimand someone for not standing and reciting the pledge. not that there were constantly people not participating, but there were some sprinkled in through junior high and high school. i'm sick and tired of some of the posts around here. "oh, it's brainwashing, they're controlling you." oh, fuck off. it's not a cult, it's not brainwashing, it's a fucking poem. get a grip. if you don't like it, don't say it. if you have kids and don't want them to say it, tell them not to (which, incidentally, is the same damn thing some are complaining about...telling children to do something when they should be making up their own mind.)
what's wrong with a little pride in your country?
eh, who needs to get a grip? did it ever cross your mind that many children are unfortunately born to very shitty, stupid parents?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Stopping a brainwashing process is not "opposite brainwashing" it's stopping the process. Kids that age don't question it when their teachers tell them to recite the pledge, they just do it. True freedom would be to keep it out of our schools (that doesn't mean ban it, that means stop saying it every morning like we've been talking about - don't put words in my mouth here )
Brainwashing is the erasure of identity. The instant you assume that reciting the pledge is not reflective of someone's identity, you're pretending their identity doesn't exist.
Freedom is not found in the reduction of the right of choice. If you hold freedom as paramount, you cannot stop people from doing this if they choose, nor can you force them to attach your qualifications to their behavior. You may only demand that they respect your freedoms to reject their behavior. So as long as children are not forced and are not punished by the institution that prescribes this pledge, I see no issue.
eh, who needs to get a grip? did it ever cross your mind that many children are unfortunately born to very shitty, stupid parents?
quite a few people here, that's who.
and what's the point you're trying to make about children with stupid parents? are you saying some parents wouldn't be able to comprehend what the pledge of allegiance is?
"PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
~Michael Bolton
reading through the rest of this thread there's a commonality. "the teachers never told us we didn't have to say it, the teachers never told us what it was we were reciting." where the fuck were your parents? i can't remember what grade i was in (way too long ago), but i do remember asking my mom what the pledge of allegiance meant and she told me. through my 12 years of schooling, i never witnessed a teacher reprimand someone for not standing and reciting the pledge. not that there were constantly people not participating, but there were some sprinkled in through junior high and high school.
i'm sick and tired of some of the posts around here. "oh, it's brainwashing, they're controlling you." oh, fuck off. it's not a cult, it's not brainwashing, it's a fucking poem. get a grip. if you don't like it, don't say it. if you have kids and don't want them to say it, tell them not to (which, incidentally, is the same damn thing some are complaining about...telling children to do something when they should be making up their own mind.)
what's wrong with a little pride in your country?
It is brainwashing, that's a technique people use to do that. It's not like they're turning all of us into zombies, but it's a form of brainwashing. I didn't say patriotism (or whatever the 'it' is in your sentence) was a cult, I said cults have done the same thing - AND THEY HAVE.
Pride in your country is one thing, but the issue here is not pride in your country, it's the supposed nationalist values that saying this montra over and over again throughout your childhood is supposed to instill you with.
This has been done over and over and over again throughout history.
That's the first thing you've said here that I just can't believe a bit of.
When you were in first grade decorating for Thanksgiving and the teacher said "Columbus sailed the ocean blue, the pilgrims made friends with the indians and everyone had a feast" Columbus was in your 'good guy' category.
Every single person taught in America went through that.
I'm a Montessori kid...they left the conclusions to us.
A few of you have said that it is just a poem or a bunch of words. It is called a Pledge and it is said daily. It is so mush more than a tradition. We are talking about integrity here. Honesty. How can we honor our souls if we make a daily promise and then say it is nothing? That is called a lie.
MY GOD! Why can't you people se this? Listen close, this is easy:
When every nation on earth implements a daily routine of it's children citing outloud that their nation is the only one God approves of and it the only place liberty can be found, then what in the HELL do you think is gonna happen globally? Stop thinking from the perspective of one place on earth, the earth itself is ours, not just here.
So can you answer my question? What in the hell would happen globally?
W A R, my friend...WAR!
This ritual is collectively infecting the world populace and leads us to want to fight foreigners because they don't believe in this God or that form of government. What would happen is WAR, just as it is.
SO YES! We will speak out against it. If you would like to pledge your allegience, you can stand in front of me and do it, I don't mind. I'd rather you just quietly wrote a letter to Donald Rumsfield every morning, but whatever. We just need people to stop teahing it to their kids like Santa Clause. Most kids truely and honestly never get a chance to question it. And why would they?
Wanting the pledge out of schools is not Anti-American. It is Anti-War. Sorry, I'm talking with my tongue in my cheek again.
and what's the point you're trying to make about children with stupid parents? are you saying some parents wouldn't be able to comprehend what the pledge of allegiance is?
I will express my opinion as i see fit. Sorry if that bugs you.
Many parents teach conformity and obedience no matter what. Many parents might not comprehend the pledge, many may not care enough to bother explaining it, many aprents were raised as followers and pass it down to their children not even realizing how this kind of thinking hinders their children's individuality. School should be a place for learning and breaking this cycle not reciting things daily they may not fully understand.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Brainwashing is the erasure of identity. The instant you assume that reciting the pledge is not reflective of someone's identity, you're pretending their identity doesn't exist.
Ah but saying that assumes that said identity would not come forward without the pledge. The identity can exist without children being made to say it in school every day.
Freedom is not found in the reduction of the right of choice. If you hold freedom as paramount, you cannot stop people from doing this if they choose, nor can you force them to attach your qualifications to their behavior. You may only demand that they respect your freedoms to reject their behavior. So as long as children are not forced and are not punished by the institution that prescribes this pledge, I see no issue.
They aren't technically forced (you must have skimmed over the countless posts explaining this). Kids that age just don't question the teacher. We're taught to obey (which is generally a good thing in this case I think), so when the teacher says "say this every day" you do it.
This is not reducing the right of choice, this is increasing it if anything. Once again, people don't need to say the pledge every morning in school to say the pledge.
It is brainwashing, that's a technique people use to do that. It's not like they're turning all of us into zombies, but it's a form of brainwashing. I didn't say patriotism (or whatever the 'it' is in your sentence) was a cult, I said cults have done the same thing - AND THEY HAVE.
Pride in your country is one thing, but the issue here is not pride in your country, it's the supposed nationalist values that saying this montra over and over again throughout your childhood is supposed to instill you with.
This has been done over and over and over again throughout history.
no, it's not brainwashing. it's memorization of a poem. that's it.
"PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
~Michael Bolton
Having little kids say the pledge is ridiculous. Go find yourself a room full of 6 year-olds and ask them what "allegiance" means, or "indivisible." Ask them to describe a "republic." They can't do it. I see no value in having them recite words they don't understand. Hell, the vast majority of them couldn't tell you what "liberty and justice" means. They're little kids, leave them alone.
If they want to say it in junior high and high school, fine, as long as everyone has the option not to participate.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I will express my opinion as i see fit. Sorry if that bugs you.
Many parents teach conformity and obedience no matter what. Many parents might not comprehend the pledge, many may not care enough to bother explaining it, many aprents were raised as followers and pass it down to their children not even realizing how this kind of thinking hinders their children's individuality. School should be a place for learning and breaking this cycle not reciting things daily they may not fully understand.
lol, "hinders their children's individuality." yeah, they're all the same. look at all those rugrats. every single one of them grows up to be the same homoginized vessel.
i got a question for you. when you were in class, any grade, i don't care...when you were in class and you didn't "fully understand" something, what did you do? just sit there and not ask for clarification?
"PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
~Michael Bolton
I'm a Montessori kid...they left the conclusions to us.
Montessori, man, they are a great school. At ours, they don't say the pledge at all. Reason: what does it have to do with learning. You go to school to learn. It is in the wrong place. If this is a free country, you can't make present something so massive as the Pledge in a learning environment at these ages.
no, it's not brainwashing. it's memorization of a poem. that's it.
the memorization of a poem.. and then the chanting of it every morning in school for at least 12 years..
Can you not see how this is more than just saying a poem? It programs kids.
This function of brainwashing is repetition, and ESPECIALLY at that ripe age that you start reciting this pledge it's very easy to have those values put in your mind.
Montessori, man, they are a great school. At ours, they don't say the pledge at all. Reason: what does it have to do with learning. You go to school to learn. It is in the wrong place. If this is a free country, you can't make present something so massive as the Pledge in a learning environment at these ages.
the memorization of a poem.. and then the chanting of it every morning in school for at least 12 years..
Can you not see how this is more than just saying a poem? It programs kids.
This function of brainwashing is repetition, and ESPECIALLY at that ripe age that you start reciting this pledge it's very easy to have those values put in your mind.
12 years????
are you telling me that you had to say the pledge......every day....for 12 years?????
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
lol, "hinders their children's individuality." yeah, they're all the same. look at all those rugrats. every single one of them grows up to be the same homoginized vessel.
i got a question for you. when you were in class, any grade, i don't care...when you were in class and you didn't "fully understand" something, what did you do? just sit there and not ask for clarification?
Of course, they are not the same, so why make them recite a pledge together as if they were?
I already addressed what I did in class which was to try to not draw much attention to myself....quite shy.
Are you saying that 5 and 6 year olds all understand what the pledge means? Because I never once witnessed a classmate question it or ask for clarification. They are kids and they don't want to lose recess or sit in the hall. Why should they have to ask for it...why isn't it taught?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
the memorization of a poem.. and then the chanting of it every morning in school for at least 12 years..
Can you not see how this is more than just saying a poem? It programs kids.
This function of brainwashing is repitition, and ESPECIALLY at that ripe age that you start reciting this pledge it's very easy to have those values put in your mind.
I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of The United States of America
And to The Republic
For which it stands
One nation
(Under God)
With liberty and justice for all
yeah, that's fucking horrible. it disgusts me that they teach children that.
seriously, you need to find something else to bitch about. this is really petty. and i'm done with this thread. good luck to you and your children.
"PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
~Michael Bolton
A few of you have said that it is just a poem or a bunch of words. It is called a Pledge and it is said daily. It is so mush more than a tradition. We are talking about integrity here. Honesty. How can we honor our souls if we make a daily promise and then say it is nothing? That is called a lie.
You can't erase the capacity to lie. And the only way to erase the lies of others is to speak the truth. You can't prevent the harm of dishonesty by taping people's lips shut. Dishonesty is deeper than words.
MY GOD! Why can't you people se this? Listen close, this is easy:
When every nation on earth implements a daily routine of it's children citing outloud that their nation is the only one God approves of and it the only place liberty can be found, then what in the HELL do you think is gonna happen globally? Stop thinking from the perspective of one place on earth, the earth itself is ours, not just here.
So can you answer my question? What in the hell would happen globally?
W A R, my friend...WAR!
This ritual is collectively infecting the world populace and leads us to want to fight foreigners because they don't believe in this God or that form of government. What would happen is WAR, just as it is.
SO YES! We will speak out against it. If you would like to pledge your allegience, you can stand in front of me and do it, I don't mind. I'd rather you just quietly wrote a letter to Donald Rumsfield every morning, but whatever. We just need people to stop teahing it to their kids like Santa Clause. Most kids truely and honestly never get a chance to question it. And why would they?
Wanting the pledge out of schools is not Anti-American. It is Anti-War. Sorry, I'm talking with my tongue in my cheek again.
Okay, seriously, G'night.
Wow. Pledge of Allegiance causes war. Ok. I always though hangnails did that....
Blind nationalism doesn't cause war. They are both symptoms of the same disease: faith. Faith is rejected by reason, not by law. If you've got a problem with the pledge, reason with those who attempt to push it on you. But if you want to go further than that to try to stop them, you might want to reconsider how different you are from the ritualizers you describe above.
the memorization of a poem.. and then the chanting of it every morning in school for at least 12 years..
Can you not see how this is more than just saying a poem? It programs kids.
This function of brainwashing is repetition, and ESPECIALLY at that ripe age that you start reciting this pledge it's very easy to have those values put in your mind.
Because they agree with the pledge they don't mind. If it were some liberal type poem they wouldn't like it to well. It would be more than a poem then. I don't care if they say the pledge or not but I think the choice of doing or not doing so should be stressed....choice is not encouraged.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of The United States of America
And to The Republic
For which it stands
One nation
(Under God)
With liberty and justice for all
yeah, that's fucking horrible. it disgusts me that they teach children that.
seriously, you need to find something else to bitch about. this is really petty. and i'm done with this thread. good luck to you and your children.
You can't erase the capacity to lie. And the only way to erase the lies of others is to speak the truth. You can't prevent the harm of dishonesty by taping people's lips shut. Dishonesty is deeper than words.
Wow. Pledge of Allegiance causes war. Ok. I always though hangnails did that....
Blind nationalism doesn't cause war. They are both symptoms of the same disease: faith. Faith is rejected by reason, not by law. If you've got a problem with the pledge, reason with those who attempt to push it on you. But if you want to go further than that to try to stop them, you might want to reconsider how different you are from the ritualizers you describe above.
Yeah i gotta agree. I think your (wickedjeremy) heart was in the right place in that post, but it was argued pretty poorly.
We just need people to stop teahing it to their kids like Santa Clause. Most kids truely and honestly never get a chance to question it. And why would they?
This I can agree with though... sort of.. we get a chance to question it, but at that young age we don't really know about that option like Abookamongsthemany was saying. We just recite the pledge and sit back down without thinking about it.
I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of The United States of America
And to The Republic
For which it stands
One nation
(Under God)
With liberty and justice for all
yeah, that's fucking horrible. it disgusts me that they teach children that.
seriously, you need to find something else to bitch about. this is really petty. and i'm done with this thread. good luck to you and your children.
No man, stay...what would we do without the hostility? I understand you are frustrated but you have to realize people have issues with some things you may be perfectly ok with.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You can't erase the capacity to lie. And the only way to erase the lies of others is to speak the truth. You can't prevent the harm of dishonesty by taping people's lips shut. Dishonesty is deeper than words.
Wow. Pledge of Allegiance causes war. Ok. I always though hangnails did that....
Blind nationalism doesn't cause war. They are both symptoms of the same disease: faith. Faith is rejected by reason, not by law. If you've got a problem with the pledge, reason with those who attempt to push it on you. But if you want to go further than that to try to stop them, you might want to reconsider how different you are from the ritualizers you describe above.
I've done lit up a cigar, so ya, still not in bed.
Hangnails...seriously, I laughed outloud.
You made a great point at the end when you said to consider [the fact that I, born here in this country, didn't fall for it]. But, sadly, I'm just a face in the crowd at this point.
I do ask that you read my last post again, and just consider how this practice which is occuring globally, leads to very, very bad things. Yes, it does contribute to war, greatly. Please see this and talk about it so our faces can shine out in the crowd. Ha, a human light. It's an inside job.
Yeah, I could argue the point much better. It really is just another point of light that struck my temple and fell from the womb of this thread, so I am talking off the cuff so far.
Comments
Stop pretending there is a paradox in individuality.
You managed to become a free-thinker while being subject to these things, yes? Why pretend that others cannot?
I understand that you said you're not saying fuck America. But the right to say anything (or to remain silent) extends from the recognition of others to do the same. That was my point.
I have no interest in putting holes in front of you. However, I do have an interest in preventing you from burying the world in your vision of right and wrong.
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
eh, who needs to get a grip? did it ever cross your mind that many children are unfortunately born to very shitty, stupid parents?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Brainwashing is the erasure of identity. The instant you assume that reciting the pledge is not reflective of someone's identity, you're pretending their identity doesn't exist.
Freedom is not found in the reduction of the right of choice. If you hold freedom as paramount, you cannot stop people from doing this if they choose, nor can you force them to attach your qualifications to their behavior. You may only demand that they respect your freedoms to reject their behavior. So as long as children are not forced and are not punished by the institution that prescribes this pledge, I see no issue.
and then they go to school....and have underqualified underachieving shitty stupid teachers......
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
quite a few people here, that's who.
and what's the point you're trying to make about children with stupid parents? are you saying some parents wouldn't be able to comprehend what the pledge of allegiance is?
~Michael Bolton
Pride in your country is one thing, but the issue here is not pride in your country, it's the supposed nationalist values that saying this montra over and over again throughout your childhood is supposed to instill you with.
This has been done over and over and over again throughout history.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
I'm a Montessori kid...they left the conclusions to us.
MY GOD! Why can't you people se this? Listen close, this is easy:
When every nation on earth implements a daily routine of it's children citing outloud that their nation is the only one God approves of and it the only place liberty can be found, then what in the HELL do you think is gonna happen globally? Stop thinking from the perspective of one place on earth, the earth itself is ours, not just here.
So can you answer my question? What in the hell would happen globally?
W A R, my friend...WAR!
This ritual is collectively infecting the world populace and leads us to want to fight foreigners because they don't believe in this God or that form of government. What would happen is WAR, just as it is.
SO YES! We will speak out against it. If you would like to pledge your allegience, you can stand in front of me and do it, I don't mind. I'd rather you just quietly wrote a letter to Donald Rumsfield every morning, but whatever. We just need people to stop teahing it to their kids like Santa Clause. Most kids truely and honestly never get a chance to question it. And why would they?
Wanting the pledge out of schools is not Anti-American. It is Anti-War. Sorry, I'm talking with my tongue in my cheek again.
Okay, seriously, G'night.
I will express my opinion as i see fit. Sorry if that bugs you.
Many parents teach conformity and obedience no matter what. Many parents might not comprehend the pledge, many may not care enough to bother explaining it, many aprents were raised as followers and pass it down to their children not even realizing how this kind of thinking hinders their children's individuality. School should be a place for learning and breaking this cycle not reciting things daily they may not fully understand.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Ah but saying that assumes that said identity would not come forward without the pledge. The identity can exist without children being made to say it in school every day.
They aren't technically forced (you must have skimmed over the countless posts explaining this). Kids that age just don't question the teacher. We're taught to obey (which is generally a good thing in this case I think), so when the teacher says "say this every day" you do it.
This is not reducing the right of choice, this is increasing it if anything. Once again, people don't need to say the pledge every morning in school to say the pledge.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
no, it's not brainwashing. it's memorization of a poem. that's it.
~Michael Bolton
If they want to say it in junior high and high school, fine, as long as everyone has the option not to participate.
lol, "hinders their children's individuality." yeah, they're all the same. look at all those rugrats. every single one of them grows up to be the same homoginized vessel.
i got a question for you. when you were in class, any grade, i don't care...when you were in class and you didn't "fully understand" something, what did you do? just sit there and not ask for clarification?
~Michael Bolton
Montessori, man, they are a great school. At ours, they don't say the pledge at all. Reason: what does it have to do with learning. You go to school to learn. It is in the wrong place. If this is a free country, you can't make present something so massive as the Pledge in a learning environment at these ages.
Damn, I'm still here?
Can you not see how this is more than just saying a poem? It programs kids.
This function of brainwashing is repetition, and ESPECIALLY at that ripe age that you start reciting this pledge it's very easy to have those values put in your mind.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
Awesome...
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
are you telling me that you had to say the pledge......every day....for 12 years?????
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
Of course, they are not the same, so why make them recite a pledge together as if they were?
I already addressed what I did in class which was to try to not draw much attention to myself....quite shy.
Are you saying that 5 and 6 year olds all understand what the pledge means? Because I never once witnessed a classmate question it or ask for clarification. They are kids and they don't want to lose recess or sit in the hall. Why should they have to ask for it...why isn't it taught?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Kindergarden, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12th grade... make that 13 years.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of The United States of America
And to The Republic
For which it stands
One nation
(Under God)
With liberty and justice for all
yeah, that's fucking horrible. it disgusts me that they teach children that.
seriously, you need to find something else to bitch about. this is really petty. and i'm done with this thread. good luck to you and your children.
~Michael Bolton
You can't erase the capacity to lie. And the only way to erase the lies of others is to speak the truth. You can't prevent the harm of dishonesty by taping people's lips shut. Dishonesty is deeper than words.
Wow. Pledge of Allegiance causes war. Ok. I always though hangnails did that....
Blind nationalism doesn't cause war. They are both symptoms of the same disease: faith. Faith is rejected by reason, not by law. If you've got a problem with the pledge, reason with those who attempt to push it on you. But if you want to go further than that to try to stop them, you might want to reconsider how different you are from the ritualizers you describe above.
Because they agree with the pledge they don't mind. If it were some liberal type poem they wouldn't like it to well. It would be more than a poem then. I don't care if they say the pledge or not but I think the choice of doing or not doing so should be stressed....choice is not encouraged.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
*shrugs*
This I can agree with though... sort of.. we get a chance to question it, but at that young age we don't really know about that option like Abookamongsthemany was saying. We just recite the pledge and sit back down without thinking about it.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
No man, stay...what would we do without the hostility? I understand you are frustrated but you have to realize people have issues with some things you may be perfectly ok with.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I've done lit up a cigar, so ya, still not in bed.
Hangnails...seriously, I laughed outloud.
You made a great point at the end when you said to consider [the fact that I, born here in this country, didn't fall for it]. But, sadly, I'm just a face in the crowd at this point.
I do ask that you read my last post again, and just consider how this practice which is occuring globally, leads to very, very bad things. Yes, it does contribute to war, greatly. Please see this and talk about it so our faces can shine out in the crowd. Ha, a human light. It's an inside job.
im gonna say....
most people dont..........
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....