Ever think how strange saying the Pledge of Allegiance is..?

Pearl Jam and toast

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

12 years????

are you telling me that you had to say the pledge......every day....for 12 years?????

Most people do.

Kindergarden, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12th grade... make that 13 years.

moeaholic

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

the memorization of a poem.. and then the chanting of it every morning in school for at least 12 years..

Can you not see how this is more than just saying a poem? It programs kids.

This function of brainwashing is repitition, and ESPECIALLY at that ripe age that you start reciting this pledge it's very easy to have those values put in your mind.

I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of The United States of America
And to The Republic
For which it stands
One nation
(Under God)
With liberty and justice for all

yeah, that's fucking horrible. it disgusts me that they teach children that.

seriously, you need to find something else to bitch about. this is really petty. and i'm done with this thread. good luck to you and your children.

farfromglorified

WickedJeremy wrote:

A few of you have said that it is just a poem or a bunch of words. It is called a Pledge and it is said daily. It is so mush more than a tradition. We are talking about integrity here. Honesty. How can we honor our souls if we make a daily promise and then say it is nothing? That is called a lie.

You can't erase the capacity to lie. And the only way to erase the lies of others is to speak the truth. You can't prevent the harm of dishonesty by taping people's lips shut. Dishonesty is deeper than words.

MY GOD! Why can't you people se this? Listen close, this is easy:

When every nation on earth implements a daily routine of it's children citing outloud that their nation is the only one God approves of and it the only place liberty can be found, then what in the HELL do you think is gonna happen globally? Stop thinking from the perspective of one place on earth, the earth itself is ours, not just here.

So can you answer my question? What in the hell would happen globally?

W A R, my friend...WAR!

This ritual is collectively infecting the world populace and leads us to want to fight foreigners because they don't believe in this God or that form of government. What would happen is WAR, just as it is.

SO YES! We will speak out against it. If you would like to pledge your allegience, you can stand in front of me and do it, I don't mind. I'd rather you just quietly wrote a letter to Donald Rumsfield every morning, but whatever. We just need people to stop teahing it to their kids like Santa Clause. Most kids truely and honestly never get a chance to question it. And why would they?

Wanting the pledge out of schools is not Anti-American. It is Anti-War. Sorry, I'm talking with my tongue in my cheek again.

Okay, seriously, G'night.

Wow. Pledge of Allegiance causes war. Ok. I always though hangnails did that....

Blind nationalism doesn't cause war. They are both symptoms of the same disease: faith. Faith is rejected by reason, not by law. If you've got a problem with the pledge, reason with those who attempt to push it on you. But if you want to go further than that to try to stop them, you might want to reconsider how different you are from the ritualizers you describe above.

Abookamongstthemany

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

the memorization of a poem.. and then the chanting of it every morning in school for at least 12 years..

Can you not see how this is more than just saying a poem? It programs kids.

This function of brainwashing is repetition, and ESPECIALLY at that ripe age that you start reciting this pledge it's very easy to have those values put in your mind.

Because they agree with the pledge they don't mind. If it were some liberal type poem they wouldn't like it to well. It would be more than a poem then. I don't care if they say the pledge or not but I think the choice of doing or not doing so should be stressed....choice is not encouraged.

Pearl Jam and toast

moeaholic wrote:

I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of The United States of America
And to The Republic
For which it stands
One nation
(Under God)
With liberty and justice for all

yeah, that's fucking horrible. it disgusts me that they teach children that.

seriously, you need to find something else to bitch about. this is really petty. and i'm done with this thread. good luck to you and your children.

:rolleyes:

Pearl Jam and toast

farfromglorified wrote:

You can't erase the capacity to lie. And the only way to erase the lies of others is to speak the truth. You can't prevent the harm of dishonesty by taping people's lips shut. Dishonesty is deeper than words.



Wow. Pledge of Allegiance causes war. Ok. I always though hangnails did that....

Blind nationalism doesn't cause war. They are both symptoms of the same disease: faith. Faith is rejected by reason, not by law. If you've got a problem with the pledge, reason with those who attempt to push it on you. But if you want to go further than that to try to stop them, you might want to reconsider how different you are from the ritualizers you describe above.

Yeah i gotta agree. I think your (wickedjeremy) heart was in the right place in that post, but it was argued pretty poorly.

*shrugs*

wickedjeremy wrote:

We just need people to stop teahing it to their kids like Santa Clause. Most kids truely and honestly never get a chance to question it. And why would they?

This I can agree with though... sort of.. we get a chance to question it, but at that young age we don't really know about that option like Abookamongsthemany was saying. We just recite the pledge and sit back down without thinking about it.

Abookamongstthemany

moeaholic wrote:

I pledge allegiance to the flag
Of The United States of America
And to The Republic
For which it stands
One nation
(Under God)
With liberty and justice for all

yeah, that's fucking horrible. it disgusts me that they teach children that.

seriously, you need to find something else to bitch about. this is really petty. and i'm done with this thread. good luck to you and your children.

No man, stay...what would we do without the hostility? I understand you are frustrated but you have to realize people have issues with some things you may be perfectly ok with.

WickedJeremy

farfromglorified wrote:

You can't erase the capacity to lie. And the only way to erase the lies of others is to speak the truth. You can't prevent the harm of dishonesty by taping people's lips shut. Dishonesty is deeper than words.



Wow. Pledge of Allegiance causes war. Ok. I always though hangnails did that....

Blind nationalism doesn't cause war. They are both symptoms of the same disease: faith. Faith is rejected by reason, not by law. If you've got a problem with the pledge, reason with those who attempt to push it on you. But if you want to go further than that to try to stop them, you might want to reconsider how different you are from the ritualizers you describe above.

I've done lit up a cigar, so ya, still not in bed.

Hangnails...seriously, I laughed outloud.

You made a great point at the end when you said to consider [the fact that I, born here in this country, didn't fall for it]. But, sadly, I'm just a face in the crowd at this point.

I do ask that you read my last post again, and just consider how this practice which is occuring globally, leads to very, very bad things. Yes, it does contribute to war, greatly. Please see this and talk about it so our faces can shine out in the crowd. Ha, a human light. It's an inside job.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

Most people do.

Kindergarden, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12th grade... make that 13 years.

i disagree........

im gonna say....

most people dont..........

WickedJeremy

Yeah, I could argue the point much better. It really is just another point of light that struck my temple and fell from the womb of this thread, so I am talking off the cuff so far.

Pearl Jam and toast

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

i disagree........

im gonna say....

most people dont..........

I have a feeling that was sarcastic...

How many people do you remember refusing to say the pledge in school, even up to the senior year?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

I have a feeling that was sarcastic...

How many people do you remember refusing to say the pledge in school, even up to the senior year?

no it wasnt....

what im saying is most people dont say it for 12 years.....

all thru grammar school.....maybe.....

but for some reason i dont think a majority of the kids in high school are saying the pledge every day......

i may be wrong.....

Pearl Jam and toast

God time for Psych. homework...

so i'll be leaving the thread for tonight and probably for good depending on how much has gone on when I look it up again.

I'll just say the main point I wanted to make was that it creeps me out, hence the word 'strange' in the title, not that it's nessecarily detrimental to our kids or our nation. If I wanted to go there outright I would've replaced 'strange' with 'fucked up'.

I don't think it belongs in a place of learning, but I don't see a reason to take it into law or something to stop it.. that would be a waste of time, plus it would be shot down anyway.

It's managed to stay relatively well mannered so far, try to keep it that way

kenny olav

are you kidding? the first thing i want my child to say every morning is that she will pledge her allegiance to an inanimate object (the flag) and if, as a secondary thought, she can pledge her allegiance to a republic for which it stands, that's great too.

Pearl Jam and toast

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

no it wasnt....

what im saying is most people dont say it for 12 years.....

all thru grammar school.....maybe.....

but for some reason i dont think a majority of the kids in high school are saying the pledge every day......

i may be wrong.....

You're wrong. Being the only one in any of my classes (except for that history class where there were 3 of us) to ever not say the pledge, i'll tell you that at LEAST 29/30 kids in a class are saying it, probably a much much higher number than that.

kenny olav

In all seriousness though, I find it humorously ironic that the pledge, so revered by American conservatives, was written by a socialist (Francis Bellamy).

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

You're wrong. Being the only one in any of my classes (except for that history class where there were 3 of us) to ever not say the pledge, i'll tell you that at LEAST 29/30 kids in a class are saying it, probably a much much higher number than that.

ok...you got me wrong again....hehehehehehe

what i am saying is......

i didnt even think the pledge was said in highschool......PERIOD!!!!!

at least when i went to school it wasnt......not in highschool....

Pearl Jam and toast

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

ok...you got me wrong again....hehehehehehe

what i am saying is......

i didnt even think the pledge was said in highschool......PERIOD!!!!!

at least when i went to school it wasnt......not in highschool....

That's interesting. I'll tell you it's said in mine and it sounds like most other people's schools here were the same way.

Abookamongstthemany

Pearl Jam and toast wrote:

That's interesting. I'll tell you it's said in mine and it sounds like most other people's schools here were the same way.

Mine, too.

WickedJeremy

Kenny Olav wrote:

are you kidding? the first thing i want my child to say every morning is that she will pledge her allegiance to an inanimate object (the flag) and if, as a secondary thought, she can pledge her allegiance to a republic for which it stands, that's great too.

An idol. This is surely a form of worship. How can we worship an inanimate object (regardless of what is represents to you) when it was made by your own hands? It is something inferior. A material thing can wrap you up. What is and what should never be. Everything is not enough, nothing is too much to bear. These are undiscovered points of reference. When is the strobe I am to slope from? Mountains dispell lies better left in dirty telephone booths. Find love in ways you never thought before.