it IS his fault that we only have one way out of it. if god is all-powerful, he doesn't need to funnel us through jesus to forgive us. he could just do it. so either god is NOT all-powerful, or he made the CHOICE to set up an arbitrary test he knew would deny billions of the children he "loves," many of whom are wonderful and deserving people, the chance to be with him in heaven solely becos they chose other, equally spiritual religions that their parents, family, and loved ones all shared with them. he knowingly abandoned billions to damnation by creating a jesus clause that is nothing but a technicality. doesn't seem very loving to me.
Yep, god is a liar.
Either he can forgive them but doesn't, which would be weird since he claims he loves them and when you love people unconditionally, you forgive them.
Or he can't forgive them, but that would be a lie too because he claims he's all-powerful.
Either he can forgive them but doesn't, which would be weird since he claims he loves them and when you love people unconditionally, you forgive them.
Or he can't forgive them, but that would be a lie too because he claims he's all-powerful.
God would be a liar if he said that you need to believe in Jesus and you didn't. One way to reconcile his not forgiving people is that in God's love he gives us exactly what we ask for and exactly what we want. If you accept him you will go to heaven. If you reject him and want nothing to do with him, in his perfect justice and perfect love, he gives you what you want. I won't dare say what accepting him means. I'd say it's easier to say what rejection of Him is. The Bible says explicitly I am the way, the truth...no one comes to the father but by me (meaning Jesus). But the bible also eludes to natural revelation etc... and God knows the heart of mankind. There are characteristics of God and Love is not the only Characteristic...but it is usually the one that causes the most inner struggle as is evidenced by a thread that is some 30 pages long.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
but i don't know if I should buy them because "Since the Zohar was written, most Kabbalistic works assume that Jewish and non-Jewish souls are fundamentally different. While all human souls emanate from God, the Zohar posits that at least part of the Gentile soul emanates from the "left side" of the Sefirotic structure and that non-Jews therefore have a dark or demonic aspect to them that is absent in Jews.
Later Kabbalistic works build and elaborate on this idea. The Hasidic work, the Tanya, fuses this idea with Judah ha-Levi's medieval philosophical argument for the uniqueness of the Jewish soul, in order to argue that Jews have an additional level of soul that other humans do not possess."
I personally simply ignore any thoughts, or perceptions about separation from ANY discipline in order to get to the heart, soul and truth of the matter. Separation is purely about ego and agendas. I also was not fond of Kabbalah advertising, but, hey, that's why they created this video.
I was blown away, though, that they conceptualized reality amazingly. They conceptualized the Truth--and life outside the cave--very clearly and simply.
The mystic Truths all stand, and are eerily similar. What is not true falls away.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
how have i lost that one? my point was that you are no more likely to convert to a minority religion like islam is here in the US than they are to convert to christianity. just becos they might know it exists hardly is a compelling reason for them to convert. and i firmly believe that had you been born there, you'd be on here right now preaching how we all need to believe confucious or suffer the consequences. the only reason you're a christian who believes in jesus is becos you were born into a culture where that was common and a large part of your raising and heritage. islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. people don't convert to christianity... they are born into it. why do you think that is? a better story? more truthful? cultural?
You'd be wrong about me. You are wrong about me. Even in your infinite, all understanding, unparalleled knowledge of the Christian faith and theology, you are wrong about me. i won't use this forum to give my full personal testimony. i've already stated i wasn't born a Christian (no one is. CHRISTIANITY IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT A RELIGION). In fact throughout my formative years i openly and, rather vocally rejected it. i railed against it pretty hard. None of my friends and family members were Christians. i personally came to an acceptance of Christianity at about age 20.
Its pretty safe to say that the 28 millon + Christians in Red China were not "Born into Christianity either".
i can't explain to you any clearer than that so i won' try.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Here it is, Ahnimus: When we are perceiving through the black box, we can develop a channel through to the REALITY. Remember the white spot that develops and that connects us to the realm of REALITY? And yes, this channel, this "white spot" is a perceptive mechanism in the brain. The black box does not refer to the brain. It refers to the ego, or our imprisoned sense of self. This white spot is like an antennae that allows us to see out of the box. It provides us the "inner voice" of inSight. And as we hone this voice/vision it channels more and more from reality. In my case, I broke through to the other side. And I was very ill and riddled with addiction, disorder, poor health etc. And I used information from that channel to begin clarifying all the disorder, and realigning/reprogramming my brain to a more natural and aligned nature, as opposed to the programmed me-me-me aspects of my being. And this process is perpetual. The nature of 3-d life is positive/negative. I still reprogam all the time, by listening to my inSights that are about "bestowing" rather than "mememe" and receiving. In short, when I'm faced with a conflict--ANY conflict, I focus on rising "above" the ego. Therefore I align with evolution/Truth and Reality and my choices reflect that, as well as the consequences of amazing depth and beauty I also experience. I've tapped into and perceive the real reality, and therefore the ONLY choice is to be life affirming. And anytime I have conflict, I know I have non-life-affirming patterns to overcome. After a while, and for sure now, although I'm human and flawed like anyone, I've trained myself to be predominantly aligned with evolution, affirming, reality and the principles of embracing, personal growth and "bestowal".
Physicist David Bohm stuff is similar, too, because he talks about using this inSight--this channel to the implicate order which is always enfolding everything that is explicate--to rise above our usual flaws and programming in order to be realistic, rather than ego-centered. Oh, and psychological healing is about the same, too--alignment with the SELF rather than the self.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
it IS his fault that we only have one way out of it. if god is all-powerful, he doesn't need to funnel us through jesus to forgive us. he could just do it. so either god is NOT all-powerful, or he made the CHOICE to set up an arbitrary test he knew would deny billions of the children he "loves," many of whom are wonderful and deserving people, the chance to be with him in heaven solely becos they chose other, equally spiritual religions that their parents, family, and loved ones all shared with them. he knowingly abandoned billions to damnation by creating a jesus clause that is nothing but a technicality. doesn't seem very loving to me.
did you forget the part I told you we had a choice? and how God doesn't interfere with our choices? so since we believed in the devil's lie we've given our power to him and once we're under the condemnation of sin the devil is in control over us. in God's all-powerful and all-knowing plan he designed a man to save us from that.... jesus was the dood. all we gotta do is believe in him... that's it.
God can't just do it because he CANNOT interfere in our choices that we make. if jesus were never there to "funnel" us through we'd of never had access to God. you say God is powerful enough to do just that... no, because again, he can't force us against our will. it's like making a desperate move from God's part, "i'll show you that i exist... and you will believe that i am real no matter what!" all while not even mentioning the fact that God's holiness is too powerful for us to contain.... see, in the bible, God wanted to do just what you are saying he should do. that happened in the case with the Israelites, but the israelites were to afraid because his majesty was too great for them. when you see moses go up to the mountain his face would get older because God's majesty was too powerful for his corrupted body to contain. he could've just snapped his fingers and say, "bam, that's it... you guys are back with me again and no longer slaves to sin." but that would be interfering in our choice and based on our choices we chose earthly and vain things... the corrupted things. so obviously that wasn't going to work out cause god wasn't going to allow anything corrupted to enter heaven and in addition we'd of probably disintegrated or dissolved or something.
you say he set up this arbitrary test..... it doesn't seem like a test to me. all that God requires is that you have faith. not giving blood, not doing any labor, not signing your life away, not dedicating yourself to an organized religion.... just simply believe.
no it isn't his fault... that's why you think he's a "prick" becuase you don't understand the message.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
True, it's not his fault we messed up. And he can't forgive that. Like soulsinging said god's a vain little prick and probably a liar too.
well, at least you accept that it's not his fault. but yes he can and already has forgiven it.... all you gotta do is believe in jesus.
if he's a liar, maybe or maybe not... but all i know is the bible makes these promises and all it asks is that you have faith. i, myself, have faith in it.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Here it is, Ahnimus: When we are perceiving through the black box, we can develop a channel through to the REALITY. Remember the white spot that develops and that connects us to the realm of REALITY? And yes, this channel, this "white spot" is a perceptive mechanism in the brain. The black box does not refer to the brain. It refers to the ego, or our imprisoned sense of self. This white spot is like an antennae that allows us to see out of the box. It provides us the "inner voice" of inSight. And as we hone this voice/vision it channels more and more from reality. In my case, I broke through to the other side. And I was very ill and riddled with addiction, disorder, poor health etc. And I used information from that channel to begin clarifying all the disorder, and realigning/reprogramming my brain to a more natural and aligned nature, as opposed to the programmed me-me-me aspects of my being. And this process is perpetual. The nature of 3-d life is positive/negative. I still reprogam all the time, by listening to my inSights that are about "bestowing" rather than "mememe" and receiving. In short, when I'm faced with a conflict--ANY conflict, I focus on rising "above" the ego. Therefore I align with evolution/Truth and Reality and my choices reflect that, as well as the consequences of amazing depth and beauty I also experience. I've tapped into and perceive the real reality, and therefore the ONLY choice is to be life affirming. And anytime I have conflict, I know I have non-life-affirming patterns to overcome. After a while, and for sure now, although I'm human and flawed like anyone, I've trained myself to be predominantly aligned with evolution, affirming, reality and the principles of embracing, personal growth and "bestowal".
Physicist David Bohm stuff is similar, too, because he talks about using this inSight--this channel to the implicate order which is always enfolding everything that is explicate--to rise above our usual flaws and programming in order to be realistic, rather than ego-centered. Oh, and psychological healing is about the same, too--alignment with the SELF rather than the self.
Some find satan that very same way.
But, evolution is all about "Me". Survival of the fittest. So if you were to truly "align" yourself with evolution, you'd be doing just the opposite.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
If you accept him you will go to heaven. . The Bible says explicitly I am the way, the truth...no one comes to the father but by me (meaning Jesus). But the bible also eludes to natural revelation etc... and God knows the heart of mankind. There are characteristics of God and Love is not the only Characteristic...but it is usually the one that causes the most inner struggle as is evidenced by a thread that is some 30 pages long.
So 20% of the worlds population consider themselves Christians.....so that means God will be sending the rest, 80% straight to hell.....he knows they're not converting...he knows they're not "innocents". Now why would god do that?
So 20% of the worlds population consider themselves Christians.....so that means God will be sending the rest, 80% straight to hell.....he knows they're not converting...he knows they're not "innocents". Now why would god do that?
i have a problem with people saying that christianity is the one true religion. i have a problem with religion. i have a problem with christianity.
sucks tho.... everyone knows me as a christian.
to me, as i'm sure many christians like to claim the same.... it's about life.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I for a long time wanted to find religion in my younger years and as I studied religion after religion, I came to the conclusion that no religion could possibly be a true voice of God. I feel religion was created to give moral guidence and to help control the people, but it's just a myth like the greek gods.
I then became agnostic or Deist in my beliefs, but the more I thought about it the less I believed. There cannot be an omnipotent being. Why would there be, what use would there be for him? He does not answer prayers. IMO A truly loving god would save the little innocent boy dying of cancer before he helped the football team win the superbowl. If it were true, it would be no god that I would want a part of.
Have you ever heard the study where one group prayed to a tractor daily for several months and compared it to another group who prayed daily to a god..the statistics actually came back that praying to the tractor was slightly better. Funny but true.
So an athiest I am and an atheist I will always be.
i have a problem with people saying that christianity is the one true religion. i have a problem with religion. i have a problem with christianity.
sucks tho.... everyone knows me as a christian.
to me, as i'm sure many christians like to claim the same.... it's about life.
because the devil co-opted Christianity and gave it a black eye to drive people away.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
the murderer.... i was asking a rhetorical question. if someone murdered your loved one would you be able to forgive?
If forgiveness meant that the murderer would be exempt from society's demand for justice? No.
I say that eventually you could forgive the murderer, even if the main reason for doing so, is to somehow free you from continuing to carry the absolute pain and nightmare of the murder in you forever. Eating up at you. It makes you so crazy. No one wants to live like that indefinitely.
But my 'forgiveness' still wants to see this person be punished for what they have done. A catholic priest said to me 'forgiveness will give you inner peace in your heart. It should not equate to punishment'. I don't agree. That's like saying we should not have any laws in place to deal with any one that breaks the law. Well that's the way i see it anyway.
If forgiveness meant that the murderer would be exempt from society's demand for justice? No.
I say that eventually you could forgive the murderer, even if the main reason for doing so, is to somehow free you from continuing to carry the absolute pain and nightmare of the murder in you forever. Eating up at you. It makes you so crazy. No one wants to live like that indefinitely.
But my 'forgiveness' still wants to see this person be punished for what they have done. A catholic priest said to me 'forgiveness will give you inner peace in your heart. It should not equate to punishment'. I don't agree. That's like saying we should not have any laws in place to deal with any one that breaks the law. Well that's the way i see it anyway.
Peace..
but the law is different though....
your catholic priest was right.... you can't claim vengeance and say you forgave the person. true... i agree in your part tho... i would allow the law to take the matters into their own hands. that's kinda like me saying that i'll let God take things into his own hands. and i'll have no part in his punishment. that's what forgiveness is about, otherwise, why do we have the word then?
it's like saying, "i forgive you for cheating on me but i'm gonna have to go sleep with someone else just to make it fair."
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I for a long time wanted to find religion in my younger years and as I studied religion after religion, I came to the conclusion that no religion could possibly be a true voice of God. I feel religion was created to give moral guidence and to help control the people, but it's just a myth like the greek gods.
I then became agnostic or Deist in my beliefs, but the more I thought about it the less I believed. There cannot be an omnipotent being. Why would there be, what use would there be for him? He does not answer prayers. IMO A truly loving god would save the little innocent boy dying of cancer before he helped the football team win the superbowl. If it were true, it would be no god that I would want a part of.
Have you ever heard the study where one group prayed to a tractor daily for several months and compared it to another group who prayed daily to a god..the statistics actually came back that praying to the tractor was slightly better. Funny but true.
So an athiest I am and an atheist I will always be.
i believe in many cases, like in yours, that's why people become atheists... not all the time though. they look for God in religions.... which is the wrong way to go.
i saw a bumpersticker once that said, "god is too big to fit in just one religion" then i left a note on the windshield that said, "god is too big to even fit in all religions."
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
I'm questioning your anger and telling "people" what to do.
this is an interesting post...
again...the original post to this thread makes NO sense to me unless they want to believe in something larger. if you are certain in your atheism....then why even inquire?
otherwise, why in the hell would you care if other people have faith, regardless if they worship allah, jesus, or john locke, or even julliet.
there are wingnuts who go around preaching their shit...but who takes that seriously? that's not faith.
the typical line is "i don't mind religious folk so long as they don't shove it down my throat." we're at the point were "i don't mind people who don't believe in anything greater than themselves...but i really don't want it shoved down my throat.".....
not that anyone working with peter north said that....
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
But, evolution is all about "Me". Survival of the fittest. So if you were to truly "align" yourself with evolution, you'd be doing just the opposite.
The voice from inside the box tells us the exact opposite of the Truth, remember. You might remember our programmed stuff we have not yet clarified.......
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
you say God is powerful enough to do just that... no, because again, he can't force us against our will.
my point is what if it's NOT against our will? what if our will is entirely to devote our lives to god and service and humility, but we just happened to be raised in a culture or taught by a wise man that the best way to foster this is through buddhism? our will is 100% to be with god and believe in him and serve him, we just picked the wrong forum to do it... and god will damn us for that honest mistake. given that you claims he's so infinitely understanding of our human failings, it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god. what has christianity got on them? cos if islam is right, you're all fucked. wouldn't you think it was kinda bullshit if a muslim told you god loved you but was going to send you to hell becos you really thought you were doing the right thing with christianity?
not dedicating yourself to an organized religion.... just simply believe.
this is a flat out lie. by definition, you are demanding that people have to dedicate themselves to a religion. christianity inherently is a religion. cult, creed, and code. you have to accept and believe certain mythology. you can't "simply believe." you have to believe the right things and you have to believe them the way the church (and you) tell us to. that is, by definition, religion.
again...the original post to this thread makes NO sense to me unless they want to believe in something larger. if you are certain in your atheism....then why even inquire?
otherwise, why in the hell would you care if other people have faith, regardless if they worship allah, jesus, or john locke, or even julliet.
there are wingnuts who go around preaching their shit...but who takes that seriously? that's not faith.
the typical line is "i don't mind religious folk so long as they don't shove it down my throat." we're at the point were "i don't mind people who don't believe in anything greater than themselves...but i really don't want it shoved down my throat.".....
not that anyone working with peter north said that....
curiosity. just plain simple curiosity. that's all it is.
i'm a curious person.
why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?
for some reason you are finding my inquiry threatening
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
for some reason you are finding my inquiry threatening
well, after all..i am a neo-con
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
my point is what if it's NOT against our will? what if our will is entirely to devote our lives to god and service and humility, but we just happened to be raised in a culture or taught by a wise man that the best way to foster this is through buddhism? our will is 100% to be with god and believe in him and serve him, we just picked the wrong forum to do it... and god will damn us for that honest mistake. given that you claims he's so infinitely understanding of our human failings, it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god. what has christianity got on them? cos if islam is right, you're all fucked. wouldn't you think it was kinda bullshit if a m uslim told you god loved you but was going to send you to hell becos you really thought you were doing the right thing with christianity?
so in other words, you want all religions to lead to god? i doubt that any religion leads to god, even christianity. follow the catholics, the mormons, the presbyterians, lutherans, pentecostals, apostolics, adventists, the baptists, trinitarians, the church of god, jehovah's witness, episcopiolans, epilopongiasdshkians.... arrghhh, so many of them. all of these fall under the same ol' christian category and all of them claim to be the true denomination, or true christians. follow them if you want to. i don't. and i'm not. and neither am i advocating that you follow any of these... i'm telling you to follow jesus. follow him however you'd like, but follow him. or don't. all i'm saying is, that's what the bible asks of you.
you also said,"it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god." the point is, it's all about your faith, it's where it depends on. you're right tho... maybe the muslims were right and i was wrong all along. but that's what faith means and according to the bible that's what it asks of you. i can't prove that jesus is indeed the way.... but i can believe he is. even if there are other religions who claim the same, this one belief is the one i choose.
it's basically what it all boils down to... that's it. no different from any other person who doesn't believe in the bible. "how could i be so sure that the bible is the way to god?" or "how is this the right one after all those that claim to be the right one?"
except that your question is a little bit different tho... cause it's more like "why can't god forgive this simple mistake? out of all the religions, why can't he forgive me for picking the wrong one?" simplest answer i could find.... if you knew and had heard about Jesus, I'm guessing God's not going to take anything as an excuse cause he'll probably say something like "don't you know what faith means?" or somethin i dunno... i'm just figuring. but if it's for someone who's never heard of the bible like you mentioned before, well, like i answered you before with a biblical reference, "they are without excuse." that's something i really don't wanna get into. and whatever you'll say, you're probably right.
i have faith. i have a very deep and strong and powerful faith. you are telling me that is not enough and that god requires more than that.
no, faith is enough. if you have faith in this god as much as you say you do, then why have a hard time believing in jesus? i mean, this god's only intention was to make it easier for us.... so that's why he put jesus there. if jesus weren't there... it would've definitely been tougher.
this is a flat out lie. by definition, you are demanding that people have to dedicate themselves to a religion. christianity inherently is a religion. cult, creed, and code. you have to accept and believe certain mythology. you can't "simply believe." you have to believe the right things and you have to believe them the way the church (and you) tell us to. that is, by definition, religion.
no... read my first paragraph. although, i know that you may not completely understand me... but believe me, i've gone through lots of things in life that i've found out the things that the bible offers me is far from what christianity offers.... including legalizations within church congregations.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
Also, I am in awe of pictures of the Universe taken from teh Hubble telescope.
It bemuses me that anyone can see those images, then either still accept that a sentient being "created" it all, or more likely, just disregard them as requiring too much thought or something.
This is more or less how I feel about it too. I can accept the concept of god purely as a metaphor for everything in the universe that is wonderous and powerful and beyond our control and understanding. Like Einstein's god. But the idea of a supernatural being that created all of that? Seems pretty simplistic and dumb to me. In my opinion its just an intellectual cop out. A way to avoid having to think about things that are difficult or impossible to understand or accept.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
so in other words, you want all religions to lead to god? i doubt that any religion leads to god, even christianity. follow the catholics, the mormons, the presbyterians, lutherans, pentecostals, apostolics, adventists, the baptists, trinitarians, the church of god, jehovah's witness, episcopiolans, epilopongiasdshkians.... arrghhh, so many of them. all of these fall under the same ol' christian category and all of them claim to be the true denomination, or true christians. follow them if you want to. i don't. and i'm not. and neither am i advocating that you follow any of these... i'm telling you to follow jesus. follow him however you'd like, but follow him. or don't. all i'm saying is, that's what the bible asks of you.
you also said,"it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god." the point is, it's all about your faith, it's where it depends on. you're right tho... maybe the muslims were right and i was wrong all along. but that's what faith means and according to the bible that's what it asks of you. i can't prove that jesus is indeed the way.... but i can believe he is. even if there are other religions who claim the same, this one belief is the one i choose.
which has been my point all along. yes, i think all religions should and do lead to god. in that sense, all religions are true and none are. what matters is whether or not your religion is fostering spiritual growth and a relationship with god. not what names and ceremonies you use. like it or not, christianity has doctrine. jesus dying and resurrecting and being the son of god is doctrine. period. if that brings you closer to god, more power to you. if you think it is the ONLY way to god, i think you're wrong. if you're right, i think such a limited god is sad and pathetic and don't feel the need to bow down to what is essentially just a big human with superpowers who lives forever.
except that your question is a little bit different tho... cause it's more like "why can't god forgive this simple mistake? out of all the religions, why can't he forgive me for picking the wrong one?" simplest answer i could find.... if you knew and had heard about Jesus, I'm guessing God's not going to take anything as an excuse cause he'll probably say something like "don't you know what faith means?" or somethin i dunno... i'm just figuring. but if it's for someone who's never heard of the bible like you mentioned before, well, like i answered you before with a biblical reference, "they are without excuse." that's something i really don't wanna get into. and whatever you'll say, you're probably right..
that's my point. these people HAVE faith in god. they just think their current religion brings them closer to god than some book with a stories about a dead guy being god.
no, faith is enough. if you have faith in this god as much as you say you do, then why have a hard time believing in jesus? i mean, this god's only intention was to make it easier for us.... so that's why he put jesus there. if jesus weren't there... it would've definitely been tougher.
since when are the two inseparable? becos jesus is a whack story about a dead guy being god. humans don't die and come back to life. and the god i believe in is not so powerless and arbitrary that he decided the only way to let our shortcomings be forgiven is to kill a good man and force us to pray to him and beg for it. in addition, the god i believe in does not think we are horribly flawed and evil creatures, just human. and the god i believe in loves us unconditionally, he doesn't base it on how much jesus ass-kissin we do. i don't need some third party to intervene, i have a direct and personal relationship with god.
the god i believe in does not think we are horribly flawed and evil creatures, just human. and the god i believe in loves us unconditionally, he doesn't base it on how much jesus ass-kissin we do. i don't need some third party to intervene, i have a direct and personal relationship with god.
The God i believe in doesn't either. The God i believe in loves us unconditionally as well. i'm curious, souls, just what is the nature of the God, as you see it. i'm not trying to be imflamatory, just conversational. As i've said a million times, i don't care what you believe, i respect it (i'm not sure i can say the same for you, but thats besides the point). i'm just curious as to what, exactly DO you believe. God loves you. You claim to have a personal relationship with him. Good. How do you achieve that? When you check out, do you meet him? Based on what? Certainly, if you have a theistic faith and a close relationship with God, you've contemplated these things. What have you come up with. It seems to me, you liken God to the cool parent in High school that bought everyone weed and let them drink beer in his basement. No? Again, i'm sincerely curious. Not looking for an argument. In fact, you'll not get one from me even if you try.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
which has been my point all along. yes, i think all religions should and do lead to god. in that sense, all religions are true and none are. what matters is whether or not your religion is fostering spiritual growth and a relationship with god. not what names and ceremonies you use. like it or not, christianity has doctrine. jesus dying and resurrecting and being the son of god is doctrine. period. if that brings you closer to god, more power to you. if you think it is the ONLY way to god, i think you're wrong. if you're right, i think such a limited god is sad and pathetic and don't feel the need to bow down to what is essentially just a big human with superpowers who lives forever.
and my point has always been that calling him a limited god has only been because he respects us enough to make our own choices.... that's the limited God that he is, who limits his own powers by his own will to not interfere in our decisions. i don't care if you think i'm wrong, all i know is that this is my faith and the god i serve. if you wanna look into it, good. if not, good. i don't like getting into conversations about, "my god is bigger than your god." it's childish and pointless. and yet you say that all religions point to god, but then say that my faith is "whacked" out. i say that no religions point to god, but that's just me.
that's my point. these people HAVE faith in god. they just think their current religion brings them closer to god than some book with a stories about a dead guy being god.
a dead and resureccted man, you mean. but i sense your point. and just like they have their faith, there is also mine. why is mine not respected as much as theirs is if their faith constitutes the same concepts? they claim that their faith is the only way that leads to god. i don't try to take that away from them, do i? why try to discredit mine?
since when are the two inseparable? becos jesus is a whack story about a dead guy being god. humans don't die and come back to life. and the god i believe in is not so powerless and arbitrary that he decided the only way to let our shortcomings be forgiven is to kill a good man and force us to pray to him and beg for it. in addition, the god i believe in does not think we are horribly flawed and evil creatures, just human. and the god i believe in loves us unconditionally, he doesn't base it on how much jesus ass-kissin we do. i don't need some third party to intervene, i have a direct and personal relationship with god.
the god i believe in is neither so powerless and arbitrary... it wasn't him that decided the only way to be forgiven was to kill a good man and force us to follow him. that's what i've been arguing with you all along. but frankly you're being a little stubborn.
and neither does he think we're horribly flawed and evil creatures... we're the one's who think of ourselves like that, as humans. because of that, we kill, create wars, destroy our environment and the list could go on. my god still loves us uncoditionally even if we don't follow jesus... that's why he put jesus there in the first place, because he loved us. not the other way around.
apart from that, good for you, if you have this close relationship with this god. that's really not my concern.
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
a dead and resureccted man, you mean. but i sense your point. and just like they have their faith, there is also mine. why is mine not respected as much as theirs is if their faith constitutes the same concepts? they claim that their faith is the only way that leads to god. i don't try to take that away from them, do i? why try to discredit mine?.
becos no muslims were on here saying i had to accept mohamed and allah to be ok with god. if there were, id be just as hard on them. i dont think god gives a flying fuck what religion or doctrine you believe.
the god i believe in is neither so powerless and arbitrary... it wasn't him that decided the only way to be forgiven was to kill a good man and force us to follow him. that's what i've been arguing with you all along. but frankly you're being a little stubborn.
and this is where i've been saying you're wrong all along. cos that is a bullshit answer and i don't see why you're too cowardly to own your beliefs. did humans decide jesus would be the only way to heaven? cos as i recall, it goes something like "god sent his only begotten son." sounds like HE made the call that he'd only offer one way out of sin, and that was jesus. now, if all of humanity got their heads together and decided they only wanted one way to heaven and it was jesus (which id argue the first nicene council actually did, but that's a whole other debate), then feel free to correct me. but it seems to me that god is the one who ought to be in charge of judging who gets to heaven and how. you keep saying he leaves the choice up to us. i don't dispute that. but im saying he decided what our choices were: jesus and heaven, or anything else and hell. that was NOT a free will thing. that was god deciding how it would be done.
The God i believe in doesn't either. The God i believe in loves us unconditionally as well. i'm curious, souls, just what is the nature of the God, as you see it. i'm not trying to be imflamatory, just conversational. As i've said a million times, i don't care what you believe, i respect it (i'm not sure i can say the same for you, but thats besides the point). i'm just curious as to what, exactly DO you believe. God loves you. You claim to have a personal relationship with him. Good. How do you achieve that? When you check out, do you meet him? Based on what? Certainly, if you have a theistic faith and a close relationship with God, you've contemplated these things. What have you come up with. It seems to me, you liken God to the cool parent in High school that bought everyone weed and let them drink beer in his basement. No? Again, i'm sincerely curious. Not looking for an argument. In fact, you'll not get one from me even if you try.
not really. i'll try to outline it later (im pretty sure i've done it somewhere before). but it's nothing so human. the god i believe is not very concerned with the trivialities of human behavior like how much one drank or how many people one slept with. the fact that you think such things are so important to god reaffirms my disenchantment with christianity... which seems to be used more as a means of enforcing and rationalizing arbitrary social norms, a crutch for cultural values, rather than a means of spiritual growth.
and no, there are no pearly gates where i meet a giant immortal human with a "God" nametag when i die.
becos no muslims were on here saying i had to accept mohamed and allah to be ok with god. if there were, id be just as hard on them. i dont think god gives a flying fuck what religion or doctrine you believe.
let's set it straight to avoid any further confusion.... i originally responded with your comment about "my god being a prick because he sends us to hell for not believing in jesus." of course, i rebutted by saying that we were on our way to hell already, so jesus is there to rescue us... not the other way around.
you have a way of mixing the situations.
and this is where i've been saying you're wrong all along. cos that is a bullshit answer and i don't see why you're too cowardly to own your beliefs. did humans decide jesus would be the only way to heaven? cos as i recall, it goes something like "god sent his only begotten son." sounds like HE made the call that he'd only offer one way out of sin, and that was jesus. now, if all of humanity got their heads together and decided they only wanted one way to heaven and it was jesus (which id argue the first nicene council actually did, but that's a whole other debate), then feel free to correct me. but it seems to me that god is the one who ought to be in charge of judging who gets to heaven and how. you keep saying he leaves the choice up to us. i don't dispute that. but im saying he decided what our choices were: jesus and heaven, or anything else and hell. that was NOT a free will thing. that was god deciding how it would be done.
of course i can't force you to accept that i'm right... and neither does that make you right. you have your own beliefs, but it's still subjective in itself. you understand that right?
but i'll stand to my answer.... my answer is right and yours is wrong. In order for humanity to be redeemed innocent blood had to be shed because that's what we had given over to the devil back in the garden of eden. We gave him the power over us.... so he ruled us by sin through our minds, and the only way to get out of sin was through death. I don't know why it was like that.... I don't claim to hold all the answers, I only know that biblically speaking this is the correct interpretation of the bible. So instead of having sacrificed a lamb year after year, Christ came to replace that. But since he himself had never tasted sin, death itself couldn't hold Jesus back that's why he let him go. It was the only way God could rescue humanity, not because God wished for it to be that way, or because of any other reason other than that "the wages of sin is death." that's it, based on our disobedience in the garden of eden we allowed the devil to take control over us. And the only way the devil would let us go is through the death of an innocent man. "Sing o sing of my redeemer, with his blood he purchased me, on the cross sealed my pardon, paid the debt and set me free." that's the way the biblical story goes...
This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
From where I sit in my lofty home,
I direct the affairs of man:
His comings & goings, his matters of heart,
Whether he succeeds or fails.
I take him to places that know no limits
And guide him through intricate schemes.
And when he sleeps, I continue on
To take him on wondrous journeys.
And though I control his every move,
His habits can disrupt my work:
Exposed to abuse, disuse, or neglect,
I no longer may ably serve him.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Yep, god is a liar.
Either he can forgive them but doesn't, which would be weird since he claims he loves them and when you love people unconditionally, you forgive them.
Or he can't forgive them, but that would be a lie too because he claims he's all-powerful.
naděje umírá poslední
God would be a liar if he said that you need to believe in Jesus and you didn't. One way to reconcile his not forgiving people is that in God's love he gives us exactly what we ask for and exactly what we want. If you accept him you will go to heaven. If you reject him and want nothing to do with him, in his perfect justice and perfect love, he gives you what you want. I won't dare say what accepting him means. I'd say it's easier to say what rejection of Him is. The Bible says explicitly I am the way, the truth...no one comes to the father but by me (meaning Jesus). But the bible also eludes to natural revelation etc... and God knows the heart of mankind. There are characteristics of God and Love is not the only Characteristic...but it is usually the one that causes the most inner struggle as is evidenced by a thread that is some 30 pages long.
I personally simply ignore any thoughts, or perceptions about separation from ANY discipline in order to get to the heart, soul and truth of the matter. Separation is purely about ego and agendas. I also was not fond of Kabbalah advertising, but, hey, that's why they created this video.
I was blown away, though, that they conceptualized reality amazingly. They conceptualized the Truth--and life outside the cave--very clearly and simply.
The mystic Truths all stand, and are eerily similar. What is not true falls away.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
You'd be wrong about me. You are wrong about me. Even in your infinite, all understanding, unparalleled knowledge of the Christian faith and theology, you are wrong about me. i won't use this forum to give my full personal testimony. i've already stated i wasn't born a Christian (no one is. CHRISTIANITY IN AND OF ITSELF IS NOT A RELIGION). In fact throughout my formative years i openly and, rather vocally rejected it. i railed against it pretty hard. None of my friends and family members were Christians. i personally came to an acceptance of Christianity at about age 20.
Its pretty safe to say that the 28 millon + Christians in Red China were not "Born into Christianity either".
i can't explain to you any clearer than that so i won' try.
Here it is, Ahnimus: When we are perceiving through the black box, we can develop a channel through to the REALITY. Remember the white spot that develops and that connects us to the realm of REALITY? And yes, this channel, this "white spot" is a perceptive mechanism in the brain. The black box does not refer to the brain. It refers to the ego, or our imprisoned sense of self. This white spot is like an antennae that allows us to see out of the box. It provides us the "inner voice" of inSight. And as we hone this voice/vision it channels more and more from reality. In my case, I broke through to the other side. And I was very ill and riddled with addiction, disorder, poor health etc. And I used information from that channel to begin clarifying all the disorder, and realigning/reprogramming my brain to a more natural and aligned nature, as opposed to the programmed me-me-me aspects of my being. And this process is perpetual. The nature of 3-d life is positive/negative. I still reprogam all the time, by listening to my inSights that are about "bestowing" rather than "mememe" and receiving. In short, when I'm faced with a conflict--ANY conflict, I focus on rising "above" the ego. Therefore I align with evolution/Truth and Reality and my choices reflect that, as well as the consequences of amazing depth and beauty I also experience. I've tapped into and perceive the real reality, and therefore the ONLY choice is to be life affirming. And anytime I have conflict, I know I have non-life-affirming patterns to overcome. After a while, and for sure now, although I'm human and flawed like anyone, I've trained myself to be predominantly aligned with evolution, affirming, reality and the principles of embracing, personal growth and "bestowal".
Physicist David Bohm stuff is similar, too, because he talks about using this inSight--this channel to the implicate order which is always enfolding everything that is explicate--to rise above our usual flaws and programming in order to be realistic, rather than ego-centered. Oh, and psychological healing is about the same, too--alignment with the SELF rather than the self.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
God can't just do it because he CANNOT interfere in our choices that we make. if jesus were never there to "funnel" us through we'd of never had access to God. you say God is powerful enough to do just that... no, because again, he can't force us against our will. it's like making a desperate move from God's part, "i'll show you that i exist... and you will believe that i am real no matter what!" all while not even mentioning the fact that God's holiness is too powerful for us to contain.... see, in the bible, God wanted to do just what you are saying he should do. that happened in the case with the Israelites, but the israelites were to afraid because his majesty was too great for them. when you see moses go up to the mountain his face would get older because God's majesty was too powerful for his corrupted body to contain. he could've just snapped his fingers and say, "bam, that's it... you guys are back with me again and no longer slaves to sin." but that would be interfering in our choice and based on our choices we chose earthly and vain things... the corrupted things. so obviously that wasn't going to work out cause god wasn't going to allow anything corrupted to enter heaven and in addition we'd of probably disintegrated or dissolved or something.
you say he set up this arbitrary test..... it doesn't seem like a test to me. all that God requires is that you have faith. not giving blood, not doing any labor, not signing your life away, not dedicating yourself to an organized religion.... just simply believe.
no it isn't his fault... that's why you think he's a "prick" becuase you don't understand the message.
i don't know what you mean by it.
if he's a liar, maybe or maybe not... but all i know is the bible makes these promises and all it asks is that you have faith. i, myself, have faith in it.
Some find satan that very same way.
But, evolution is all about "Me". Survival of the fittest. So if you were to truly "align" yourself with evolution, you'd be doing just the opposite.
sucks tho.... everyone knows me as a christian.
to me, as i'm sure many christians like to claim the same.... it's about life.
I then became agnostic or Deist in my beliefs, but the more I thought about it the less I believed. There cannot be an omnipotent being. Why would there be, what use would there be for him? He does not answer prayers. IMO A truly loving god would save the little innocent boy dying of cancer before he helped the football team win the superbowl. If it were true, it would be no god that I would want a part of.
Have you ever heard the study where one group prayed to a tractor daily for several months and compared it to another group who prayed daily to a god..the statistics actually came back that praying to the tractor was slightly better. Funny but true.
So an athiest I am and an atheist I will always be.
because the devil co-opted Christianity and gave it a black eye to drive people away.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
I say that eventually you could forgive the murderer, even if the main reason for doing so, is to somehow free you from continuing to carry the absolute pain and nightmare of the murder in you forever. Eating up at you. It makes you so crazy. No one wants to live like that indefinitely.
But my 'forgiveness' still wants to see this person be punished for what they have done. A catholic priest said to me 'forgiveness will give you inner peace in your heart. It should not equate to punishment'. I don't agree. That's like saying we should not have any laws in place to deal with any one that breaks the law. Well that's the way i see it anyway.
Peace..
your catholic priest was right.... you can't claim vengeance and say you forgave the person. true... i agree in your part tho... i would allow the law to take the matters into their own hands. that's kinda like me saying that i'll let God take things into his own hands. and i'll have no part in his punishment. that's what forgiveness is about, otherwise, why do we have the word then?
it's like saying, "i forgive you for cheating on me but i'm gonna have to go sleep with someone else just to make it fair."
i saw a bumpersticker once that said, "god is too big to fit in just one religion" then i left a note on the windshield that said, "god is too big to even fit in all religions."
this is an interesting post...
again...the original post to this thread makes NO sense to me unless they want to believe in something larger. if you are certain in your atheism....then why even inquire?
otherwise, why in the hell would you care if other people have faith, regardless if they worship allah, jesus, or john locke, or even julliet.
there are wingnuts who go around preaching their shit...but who takes that seriously? that's not faith.
the typical line is "i don't mind religious folk so long as they don't shove it down my throat." we're at the point were "i don't mind people who don't believe in anything greater than themselves...but i really don't want it shoved down my throat.".....
not that anyone working with peter north said that....
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
my point is what if it's NOT against our will? what if our will is entirely to devote our lives to god and service and humility, but we just happened to be raised in a culture or taught by a wise man that the best way to foster this is through buddhism? our will is 100% to be with god and believe in him and serve him, we just picked the wrong forum to do it... and god will damn us for that honest mistake. given that you claims he's so infinitely understanding of our human failings, it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god. what has christianity got on them? cos if islam is right, you're all fucked. wouldn't you think it was kinda bullshit if a muslim told you god loved you but was going to send you to hell becos you really thought you were doing the right thing with christianity?
i have faith. i have a very deep and strong and powerful faith. you are telling me that is not enough and that god requires more than that.
this is a flat out lie. by definition, you are demanding that people have to dedicate themselves to a religion. christianity inherently is a religion. cult, creed, and code. you have to accept and believe certain mythology. you can't "simply believe." you have to believe the right things and you have to believe them the way the church (and you) tell us to. that is, by definition, religion.
curiosity. just plain simple curiosity. that's all it is.
i'm a curious person.
why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?
for some reason you are finding my inquiry threatening
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
well, after all..i am a neo-con
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
you also said,"it seems a bit daft to say he will never forgive us making the wrong guess when our heart and intentions are totally pure and directed only towards what we truly and honestly believed he wanted for us. becos as i recall, all the major religions at some point claim they are the only way to god." the point is, it's all about your faith, it's where it depends on. you're right tho... maybe the muslims were right and i was wrong all along. but that's what faith means and according to the bible that's what it asks of you. i can't prove that jesus is indeed the way.... but i can believe he is. even if there are other religions who claim the same, this one belief is the one i choose.
it's basically what it all boils down to... that's it. no different from any other person who doesn't believe in the bible. "how could i be so sure that the bible is the way to god?" or "how is this the right one after all those that claim to be the right one?"
except that your question is a little bit different tho... cause it's more like "why can't god forgive this simple mistake? out of all the religions, why can't he forgive me for picking the wrong one?" simplest answer i could find.... if you knew and had heard about Jesus, I'm guessing God's not going to take anything as an excuse cause he'll probably say something like "don't you know what faith means?" or somethin i dunno... i'm just figuring. but if it's for someone who's never heard of the bible like you mentioned before, well, like i answered you before with a biblical reference, "they are without excuse." that's something i really don't wanna get into. and whatever you'll say, you're probably right. no, faith is enough. if you have faith in this god as much as you say you do, then why have a hard time believing in jesus? i mean, this god's only intention was to make it easier for us.... so that's why he put jesus there. if jesus weren't there... it would've definitely been tougher.
no... read my first paragraph. although, i know that you may not completely understand me... but believe me, i've gone through lots of things in life that i've found out the things that the bible offers me is far from what christianity offers.... including legalizations within church congregations.
This is more or less how I feel about it too. I can accept the concept of god purely as a metaphor for everything in the universe that is wonderous and powerful and beyond our control and understanding. Like Einstein's god. But the idea of a supernatural being that created all of that? Seems pretty simplistic and dumb to me. In my opinion its just an intellectual cop out. A way to avoid having to think about things that are difficult or impossible to understand or accept.
-C Addison
which has been my point all along. yes, i think all religions should and do lead to god. in that sense, all religions are true and none are. what matters is whether or not your religion is fostering spiritual growth and a relationship with god. not what names and ceremonies you use. like it or not, christianity has doctrine. jesus dying and resurrecting and being the son of god is doctrine. period. if that brings you closer to god, more power to you. if you think it is the ONLY way to god, i think you're wrong. if you're right, i think such a limited god is sad and pathetic and don't feel the need to bow down to what is essentially just a big human with superpowers who lives forever.
that's my point. these people HAVE faith in god. they just think their current religion brings them closer to god than some book with a stories about a dead guy being god.
since when are the two inseparable? becos jesus is a whack story about a dead guy being god. humans don't die and come back to life. and the god i believe in is not so powerless and arbitrary that he decided the only way to let our shortcomings be forgiven is to kill a good man and force us to pray to him and beg for it. in addition, the god i believe in does not think we are horribly flawed and evil creatures, just human. and the god i believe in loves us unconditionally, he doesn't base it on how much jesus ass-kissin we do. i don't need some third party to intervene, i have a direct and personal relationship with god.
The God i believe in doesn't either. The God i believe in loves us unconditionally as well. i'm curious, souls, just what is the nature of the God, as you see it. i'm not trying to be imflamatory, just conversational. As i've said a million times, i don't care what you believe, i respect it (i'm not sure i can say the same for you, but thats besides the point). i'm just curious as to what, exactly DO you believe. God loves you. You claim to have a personal relationship with him. Good. How do you achieve that? When you check out, do you meet him? Based on what? Certainly, if you have a theistic faith and a close relationship with God, you've contemplated these things. What have you come up with. It seems to me, you liken God to the cool parent in High school that bought everyone weed and let them drink beer in his basement. No? Again, i'm sincerely curious. Not looking for an argument. In fact, you'll not get one from me even if you try.
a dead and resureccted man, you mean. but i sense your point. and just like they have their faith, there is also mine. why is mine not respected as much as theirs is if their faith constitutes the same concepts? they claim that their faith is the only way that leads to god. i don't try to take that away from them, do i? why try to discredit mine?
the god i believe in is neither so powerless and arbitrary... it wasn't him that decided the only way to be forgiven was to kill a good man and force us to follow him. that's what i've been arguing with you all along. but frankly you're being a little stubborn.
and neither does he think we're horribly flawed and evil creatures... we're the one's who think of ourselves like that, as humans. because of that, we kill, create wars, destroy our environment and the list could go on. my god still loves us uncoditionally even if we don't follow jesus... that's why he put jesus there in the first place, because he loved us. not the other way around.
apart from that, good for you, if you have this close relationship with this god. that's really not my concern.
becos no muslims were on here saying i had to accept mohamed and allah to be ok with god. if there were, id be just as hard on them. i dont think god gives a flying fuck what religion or doctrine you believe.
and this is where i've been saying you're wrong all along. cos that is a bullshit answer and i don't see why you're too cowardly to own your beliefs. did humans decide jesus would be the only way to heaven? cos as i recall, it goes something like "god sent his only begotten son." sounds like HE made the call that he'd only offer one way out of sin, and that was jesus. now, if all of humanity got their heads together and decided they only wanted one way to heaven and it was jesus (which id argue the first nicene council actually did, but that's a whole other debate), then feel free to correct me. but it seems to me that god is the one who ought to be in charge of judging who gets to heaven and how. you keep saying he leaves the choice up to us. i don't dispute that. but im saying he decided what our choices were: jesus and heaven, or anything else and hell. that was NOT a free will thing. that was god deciding how it would be done.
not really. i'll try to outline it later (im pretty sure i've done it somewhere before). but it's nothing so human. the god i believe is not very concerned with the trivialities of human behavior like how much one drank or how many people one slept with. the fact that you think such things are so important to god reaffirms my disenchantment with christianity... which seems to be used more as a means of enforcing and rationalizing arbitrary social norms, a crutch for cultural values, rather than a means of spiritual growth.
and no, there are no pearly gates where i meet a giant immortal human with a "God" nametag when i die.
you have a way of mixing the situations.
of course i can't force you to accept that i'm right... and neither does that make you right. you have your own beliefs, but it's still subjective in itself. you understand that right?
but i'll stand to my answer.... my answer is right and yours is wrong. In order for humanity to be redeemed innocent blood had to be shed because that's what we had given over to the devil back in the garden of eden. We gave him the power over us.... so he ruled us by sin through our minds, and the only way to get out of sin was through death. I don't know why it was like that.... I don't claim to hold all the answers, I only know that biblically speaking this is the correct interpretation of the bible. So instead of having sacrificed a lamb year after year, Christ came to replace that. But since he himself had never tasted sin, death itself couldn't hold Jesus back that's why he let him go. It was the only way God could rescue humanity, not because God wished for it to be that way, or because of any other reason other than that "the wages of sin is death." that's it, based on our disobedience in the garden of eden we allowed the devil to take control over us. And the only way the devil would let us go is through the death of an innocent man. "Sing o sing of my redeemer, with his blood he purchased me, on the cross sealed my pardon, paid the debt and set me free." that's the way the biblical story goes...
I direct the affairs of man:
His comings & goings, his matters of heart,
Whether he succeeds or fails.
I take him to places that know no limits
And guide him through intricate schemes.
And when he sleeps, I continue on
To take him on wondrous journeys.
And though I control his every move,
His habits can disrupt my work:
Exposed to abuse, disuse, or neglect,
I no longer may ably serve him.