Meet Your Meat: WARNING - Extremely Graphic Animal Cruelty

gue_barium

Ahnimus wrote:

And that implicates KFC because?

It's a logistical issue, I buy chicken from KFC, KFC buys chicken from the Atlantic and Pacific Corporation, A&P buys it from one or more corporate farming companies. If cruel treatment of animals is occuring at the farming level, it does not follow that A&P, or KFC or I should know about it. Ultimately most of the chicken I eat at restaurants or at home will have come from A&P or some other supermarket that also sources chicken from the same cruel farmers. It's the farmers who are responsible for the in vivo treatment of their animals.

Well, you keep saying "farmers." That's where I'm drawing the line. I come from a long line of farmers and those corporate slaughterhouses are about as much about farming as I am about posting sober.

Jeanie

gue_barium wrote:

Well, you keep saying "farmers." That's where I'm drawing the line. I come from a long line of farmers and those corporate slaughterhouses are about as much about farming as I am about posting sober.

I'd agree with that gue. I think it's all market driven now, so few small operators still exist. Big companies own farming and they determine the price that farmers are paid AND this in turn impacts of farming practice.

Vedd Hedd

69charger wrote:

I guess that depends on what you consider torture?

If the most viable way to raise enough food to feed everyone is to have these animals live in less than perfect conditions is your definition of torture than too bad. What difference does it make? Why are you so empathetic with something that is essentially just a fuel source?

I'm saying animals are not people and it is perfectly fine to harvest them in the most efficient way. It's good for us, not so good for them. Pretty much the same for any predator/prey relationship I guess.

There is a big difference between less than perfect and cruel existence. Did you see the video?

If you happened to visit a farm for some reason, would you just grab a chicken by its head and toss it into a truck? Would you hit a turkey with a crowbar? Would you tie a calf to a post so it couldnt move...for its entire life??

I guess you would, because you dont need to show empathy to something that is just a food source.

I disagree.

And Ron White is a idiot. We are not at the top of the food chain. I dont think there is a "top". But if there is a "top", I would imagine E. Coli, Salmonella, influenza, plague.....and any worm or bacteria that eats your dead body would be somewhere at the top.

As the "most intelligent" species, I think we can figure out ways to be more humane while still keeping the industry economically viable.

I dont think......"Eh cows are just food, lets chain them up and castrate them, and we might as well pluck these chickens while they are still alive."

gue_barium

Vedd Hedd wrote:

There is a big difference between less than perfect and cruel existence. Did you see the video?

If you happened to visit a farm for some reason, would you just grab a chicken by its head and toss it into a truck? Would you hit a turkey with a crowbar? Would you tie a calf to a post so it couldnt move...for its entire life??

I guess you would, because you dont need to show empathy to something that is just a food source.

I disagree.

And Ron White is a idiot. We are not at the top of the food chain. I dont think there is a "top". But if there is a "top", I would imagine E. Coli, Salmonella, influenza, plague.....and any worm or bacteria that eats your dead body would be somewhere at the top.

As the "most intelligent" species, I think we can figure out ways to be more humane while still keeping the industry economically viable.

I dont think......"Eh cows are just food, lets chain them up and castrate them, and we might as well pluck these chickens while they are still alive."

Great points, good post, sir.

Another way an American can feel his place in the food chain is to go hiking in the grizzly-friendly backcountry of Glacier National Park in Montana.

surferdude

gue_barium wrote:

Great points, good post, sir.

Another way an American can feel his place in the food chain is to go hiking in the grizzly-friendly backcountry of Glacier National Park in Montana.

Bring a rifle and you're at the top of the food chain. Don't go prepared and you're at the top of the fool chain.

gue_barium

surferdude wrote:

Bring a rifle and you're at the top of the food chain. Don't go prepared and you're at the top of the fool chain.

It is against the law to bring firearms into a National Park.
I carry pepper spray.

gue_barium

gue_barium wrote:

It is against the law to bring firearms into a National Park.
I carry pepper spray.

And a knife.

One time I had some firecrackers. I know a guy that that worked for. He was up a tree and dropped a 40-pack of Black Cats. The griz skedaddled.

Jeanie

This is interesting if rather old news. I'm still trying to find some links here for Australia.



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/food/134685_mindful13.html

gue_barium

Jeanie wrote:

This is interesting if rather old news. I'm still trying to find some links here for Australia.



http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/food/134685_mindful13.html

That's a good article.

The pics of the piglets are so cute.

The pic of Shelley what's her name...she needs to pull her pants out of her crack.

Jeanie

gue_barium wrote:

That's a good article.

The pics of the piglets are so cute.

The pic of Shelley what's her name...she needs to pull her pants out of her crack.

Yeah, I thought so too gue. Shame it's proving so difficult to find info for Australians. The piglets are cute, but then I've always had a soft spot for pigs. I love their noses!

And as to Shelley's arse, well it aint no fashion parade love, she does have her hands full!

Scubascott

Ahnimus wrote:

It's the farmers who are responsible for the in vivo treatment of their animals.

I hate to be anal, but you need to check your definition of the term in vivo.

And you're wrong anway. Its up to consumers to demand higher standards of animal treatment. Broiler farms operate in a competetive environment, and do what they have to do to produce their product at a competetive price.

Scubascott

Jeanie wrote:

Yeah, I thought so too gue. Shame it's proving so difficult to find info for Australians. The piglets are cute, but then I've always had a soft spot for pigs. I love their noses!

And as to Shelley's arse, well it aint no fashion parade love, she does have her hands full!

Jeanie, you'll be pleased to know that standards of animal treatment in meat production in Australia are very high. I come from a beef and lamb background, so I can't claim to know very much about chicken or pork production. But, I do know that there are less than 1500 piggeries in Australia, and pig farmers are being squeezed out of business by cheaper imported pork products.

Now. Who is this Shelley and where can I see her arse?

Jeanie

This is looking like a possibility with orders soon being filled in Melbourne and Sydney as well as QLD. I have just emailed to ask about their farming practice in relation to the animals. I guess I'll let you know if I find out anything.

http://www.farmerdavedirect.com/

(tis so funny because "farmerdave" was on Big Brother here and seemed to be a great bloke, and he's gay, "not that there's anything wrong with that" So I guess we'll see what his farmers procedures for keeping and killing is and hopefully it will be all good from the critters point of view, and he'll be an even better bloke in my eyes! )

Just emailed this bloke too and am waiting for a response.

http://www.organicdirect.com.au/default.htm

Ahnimus

Scubascott wrote:

I hate to be anal, but you need to check your definition of the term in vivo.

And you're wrong anway. Its up to consumers to demand higher standards of animal treatment. Broiler farms operate in a competetive environment, and do what they have to do to produce their product at a competetive price.

I think your just being anal.

Of course 'the people' should probably enforce protection for animal treatment. Maybe it should be a political issue. If you feel strongly about it, protest. I'm not the protester type, I'm better at doing other stuff. Besides, I prefer indifference over ignorance.

Scubascott

Ahnimus wrote:

I think your just being anal.

Of course 'the people' should probably enforce protection for animal treatment. Maybe it should be a political issue. If you feel strongly about it, protest. I'm not the protester type, I'm better at doing other stuff. Besides, I prefer indifference over ignorance.

I don't feel strongly about it, so I don't plan to protest. I'm quite satisified with the standards of animal treatment in Australia, and I come from a lamb producing background, so I have first hand knowledge of the process, and don't rely on sensationalist bullshit propaganda like the crap put out by PETA and the like. (I'm not saying you do by the way, but I'm sure there are many on this forum who fall into that category)

The problem with using terms like in vivo out of context is that instead of making yourself look clever like you were intending to you actually make yourself look like a pretentious windbag who likes using fancy language to try to impress others.

I agree that indifference is usually preferable to ignorance. Much less dangerous.

Jeanie

Scubascott wrote:

Jeanie, you'll be pleased to know that standards of animal treatment in meat production in Australia are very high. I come from a beef and lamb background, so I can't claim to know very much about chicken or pork production. But, I do know that there are less than 1500 piggeries in Australia, and pig farmers are being squeezed out of business by cheaper imported pork products.

Now. Who is this Shelley and where can I see her arse?

Thanks scott, I've just been reading some stuff on the web about it and it does appear that we don't have the "feed lot" situation here with our cattle that is practiced in America. (I think that's the right term. )

I do get my chicken from Lilydale Free Range.

http://www.baiada.com.au/lilydale_final/welcome.htm

Although I admit that free range eggs is a bit harder to understand. Isn't that a minefield???
Mostly I buy from these guys:

http://www.freerangeeggs.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26

I must admit we're pretty strict about not buying imported meats here in this house. Mum is paranoid about CJD and such, not to mention that I'm a big believer in "buy Australian". I gotta get a bit more savvy about the pork, (well ham and bacon, I'm not really a pork eater) And I'm keen to find better choices when it comes to lamb and beef. (but again I'm not a big meat eater anyway.)

My ex's family have a wheat and sheep farm in the Mallee and I know that they always treated their animals well, and their neighbours had pigs, which were also treated well, but I can't say what happened at the abbatoirs though.

As for Shelley's arse, there's a photo of it in the link I posted above, but I wouldn't get excited if I were you!


Oh and I probably should add, that I'm not really concerned about milk products in terms of animal cruelty because I spend more than enough time in Gippsland looking at all the cows living happily.

boxwine_in_hell

"Do the chickens have large talons?"

Pearler

Im with Teddles. Kill it and Grill it.

Scubascott

Jeanie wrote:

Thanks scott, I've just been reading some stuff on the web about it and it does appear that we don't have the "feed lot" situation here with our cattle that is practiced in America.

Sheep and cattle feed lots are common in Australia. I'm not sure what you're thinking of? You could certainly argue that animals grown under feedlot conditions are not leading particularly 'natural' lives, but you'd have a very hard time convincing me that it constitutes cruelty. Animals in a well managed feedlot have constant access to feed, water and shade, which may not always be the case with animals in the paddock, especially during a drought like the one we're going through now. One of our neighbours runs a small cattle feedlot operation, and we have done a lot of business with him supplying feed. He has a deal with the big bakery in town and gets all their reject and stale bread, which he mixes with the cattle feed. The cattle go nuts for it, especially when there happens to be a few finger buns in the mix

It would be interesting to hear if ayone has tried measuring cortisol (stress hormone) levels in feed lotted vs paddock grown animals to see if there is any difference.

boxwine_in_hell

I feel bad for about 2 seconds for liking baby sheep, but dammit a nice rack of lamb is fucking good.