I have not watched the video, but I can already imagine what's depicted.
John Robbins new book "Healthy at 100", and Diet for a new America are great
reads. His website has an awful lot of info on alternate food protein sources.
The Garden Diet.com is an extremely valuable site, that is solely dedicated to a raw vegan diet.
Jinjee, is a very educated raw vegan woman, and has 4 beautiful raw vegan children. I can assure you , she hasn't eaten meat, and has breastfed all of her offspring.
No one has mentioned eating nuts, seeds, oils, which all have protein and essential fatty acids for healthy living, birthing and breastfeeding.
Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's Soul remains Unawakened.
Anatole France
Well evolution has given me teeth designed for eating meat. As a believer in evolution I'm gonna continue to eat meat. I'll feel no guilt about it either. Sorry.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
to eat meat. It's just sad that alot of human beings don't take responsibility to eat healthy and wisely. The healthcare system would be a little less taxed if more people ate their veggies.
Catch those waves surferdude. I won't even go into the toxic runoff from the meat farms into our lakes and oceans. Pesticides, etc.
I respect people who eat meat, when they actually take responsibility for the animal, and use it the way MAN used it, back in the day.
Where's Creenations dude, who actually goes and hunts his food?
Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's Soul remains Unawakened.
Anatole France
But many vegans do not really eat a diverse group of vegetables, and even many processed soy products are no better that processed meat products.
Quite true - I'm not a big believer in 'fake meat' subsitutes. They are unnecessary. Vegans AND others need to educate themselves on proper nutrition. As a nation, the populace is either poorly informed on what is good nutrition, or they choose to ignore what they do know is healthy.
As a Vegan you have to eat a wide variety of plants in order to get all essential vitamins, minerals, proteins, and fatty acids.
Very true - and I do
And 3/4 joking, I know many think steak tastes good - but consider - I've read that some cultures considered that human meat is tasty too (or dog meat), however we choose not to partake of that. Point being, simply because something is tasty doesn't mean we need it or have to eat it.
I do think we're in agreement that animals should be treated humanely though.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
I respect people who eat meat, when they actually take responsibility for the animal, and use it the way MAN used it, back in the day.
Where's Creenations dude, who actually goes and hunts his food?
And I guess you grow all your own veggies and fruit just like the MAN did back in the day.
I'll feel guilty for eating meat that is brought to market using modern day methods when others feel guilty for living in modern day houses and use modern day conveniences.
All that said I think the government could do lots to better regulate the meat industry.
Do you think evolution made a mistake when it gave you meat eating teeth?
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
And I guess you grow all your own veggies and fruit just like the MAN did back in the day.
I'll feel guilty for eating meat that is brought to market using modern day methods when others feel guilty for living in modern day houses and use modern day conveniences.
All that said I think the government could do lots to better regulate the meat industry.
Do you think evolution made a mistake when it gave you meat eating teeth?
I don't know, I've eaten some pretty tough seitan lately... good think my k9s are razor sharp and vampire like, due to NOT EATING DEAD ANIMALS!
By the way, anyone in the Denver area, I saw a dead possum on the side of the road, if anyone's hungry... meat is meat!
message boards are funny things.
this post got no play for days, fell off the main page, and was presumed dead.
Three days later, it rises and has 30 posts.
I'm pleasantly suprised.
I would like to say that i am not some whacky hippie with some crazy idealogical agenda... and i didn't post this to gross people out.
Truth is, minus a one year stint at age 20, i have never been a vegetarian. I'm 27 and have eaten meat without guilt all of my life. I was born in New Orleans, i LOVE Popeyes spicy chicken with red beans! lol.
No.
The truth is,
i posted this video because it grossed ME out.
Yeah, i inherently knew that there was animal cruelty involved in modern food production, and i had seen a few short clips of things like chickens getting kicked.
However, no way did i know that the cruelty was essentialy built in to the system, and that this shit does not happen in isolated litte incidents of farmer stupidty ... rather, it's just the way it is.
a. My idealogical agenda also includes not breeding, myself. So no need to worry about me malnurishing a child because of my "whacky leftist agenda" or whathaveyou.
b. Yeah. I've used the "god gave me these incisors for a reason" line... but you know what ... i don't think with all his alleged omnipotence that he foresaw any of what this video entailed. If you are making a comment like that in this thread, "i won't feel any guilt" ... i doubt you watched the video ... i was overcome with "guilt".
:(
Anyhow.
Great discussions on the whole.
Keep it up.
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Mr.Smith , if you keep eating those BLEEDING steaks, you might end up not being able to GET it UP, to have sex.
Just kidding, but seriously, hardening of the arteries from animal fat is a real disease.
Try some MACA ROOT, it's better than meat, and makes a man last alot longer. cheers
Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's Soul remains Unawakened.
Anatole France
Mr.Smith , if you keep eating those BLEEDING steaks, you might end up not being able to GET it UP, to have sex.
Just kidding, but seriously, hardening of the arteries from animal fat is a real disease.
Try some MACA ROOT, it's better than meat, and makes a man last alot longer. cheers
hmmm Maca Root or steak...steak or maca root. I'll stick with the dead cow, thanks. hahah I haven't had any problems getting it up yet, if you don't count that time i had waaaaay too much scotch whiskey, but i dont want to talk about that.
i think i do have a small disdain for vegetarians. i think it comes from waiting tables for 8 years. Vegetarians are so goddamn picky and their ticket prices were low so their tips were usually shit. I usually ended up working twice as much for half the money.
oh and i dated a vegetarian a couple of times and she always reacted in utter disgust to whatever i ordered. i didnt act grossed out when she ordered her fucking asparagus sticks or whatever...
Well evolution has given me teeth designed for eating meat. As a believer in evolution I'm gonna continue to eat meat. I'll feel no guilt about it either. Sorry.
That's how i'm made to feel as well - sorry. I'm going to continue to eat meat in small quanitities as i've done before. Because i believe that meat has some important nutrients for my body that vegetables don't have.
i didn't watch the video, because i've seen it all before, and i'm as pissed of with people as ever. but we are always going to have people who are going to eat meat. what needs to be changed is how we look after the animals, and how we slaughter them. what i'm interested in knowing is this: has anyone done anything about that?
I shot an antelope last weekend. The meat from it should last me for 4 months It died quickly and had never been in confined quarters. Anyone else ever had antelope meat?
Not complete proteins. Clearly, the human body was designed to use meat as a food source, and needs it. Especially in developing children.
Acctually thats not true. In studies its been shown that our bodys are not at all the same to any meat eating animal. For one our teeth, they are not designed to tear meat from anything. (and incase anybodys wondering we didnt evolve to cook our meat lol) And two, our digestive track is not short like carnivorous animals but long like plant eating animals. Also our stomach acid is not the same as in every other meat eating animal, nor is our saliva.
All in all we have no similarities to any carnivorous animal. But are acctually basically the same as plant eaters (or to be more specific fruit eaters).
but I dont agree with being a total Vegan. I do think its ok to use dairy products, and its much more healthy (I drink an entire milk jug in a week alone). But still ofcourse it all comes from the same system, so if I choose not to eat meat but to eat dairy products then Im still going to contribute to it (but maybe not as much). I say this all and at the moment I do eat meat, but I grew up as a vegitarian (not vegan). So I have no problem with eating it, but I do with the way its comes to me. Its very wrong (especially to call it processing the meat, when clearly their living things).
So I have no problem with eating it, but I do with the way its comes to me. Its very wrong (especially to call it processing the meat, when clearly their living things).
I'm not wild about the business practices but truthfully they don't bother me enough to stop eating meat. I try to stick with free range chickens but if they're not in stock I'll buy what's available.
Push for better practices. I don't care if it drives the cost up. But please don't tell me or ask me to stop eating meat. I don't want to hear your take on the health advantages of a meat free diet anymore than you want to hear about saving your soul from someone knocking on your door. I'm glad you have your beliefs, just don't push them on me.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Well evolution has given me teeth designed for eating meat. As a believer in evolution I'm gonna continue to eat meat. I'll feel no guilt about it either. Sorry.
Forgetting the moral issues of whether it is ok to take another's life strictly for purposes of pleasure, human teeth are NOT designed to eat meat. This argument is really weak. Compare human inscisors to that of true carnivores. Not even close. Ours are much much smaller and less sharp. True carnivores hunt other animals down with these large teeth and claws. Good luck to a human to try and take down a deer that way.
The human digestive track is four times longer than true carnivores. Meat is tough to breakdown which is why animals who eat meat have short intestinal tracts, to be able to expell it quicker. The human intestinal tract is much longer.
As well, true carnivores salivate at the sight of another animal they want to eat. When I ate meat not once did I salivate when looking at a pig rolling in the mud. I didn't thirst to drink their milk while looking at a pregnant cow. I guarantee no one on this board has either. We need to cook it and spice it up first. Carnivores eat meat raw and don't use a knife and fork.
Read the book The China Study. It is the most comprehensive study of human nutrition ever conducted. The doctor who lead this study was a huge proponent of eating meat at the beggining. It quickly became apparent through 30 years of studies that not only is a vegan diet the most healthy, but eating meat actually contributes to disease. Read it for yourself.
True carnivores hunt other animals down with these large teeth and claws. Good luck to a human to try and take down a deer that way.
I love this arguement because it seems to throw away logic to make it's point. I knowingly eat meat, I am a carnivore. I don't need to kill the meat with my teeth to eat it. Evolution gave me hands and a brain that make me much better at procuring meat than extra long sharp teeth. I use what evolution has given me to get my meat. I then use the teeth made for eating meat to eat it with. I like it cooked and spiced. That does not change the fact that I'm eating meat and am a carnivore.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I don't want to hear your take on the health advantages of a meat free diet anymore than you want to hear about saving your soul from someone knocking on your door. I'm glad you have your beliefs, just don't push them on me.
Forgetting the moral issues of whether it is ok to take another's life strictly for purposes of pleasure,
Your morals are your own, keep them there please. My morals say it's quite all right for me to eat meat for pleasure, for sustenance, for a happy and healthy life. Please don't even start with the morals crap.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Your morals are your own, keep them there please. My morals say it's quite all right for me to eat meat for pleasure, for sustenance, for a happy and healthy life. Please don't even start with the morals crap.
Yup...we have different morals and that's fine. The problem for me is that choosing to eat meat gives you pleasure but causes harm to others. Obviously the animals are subjected to terrible conditions, fear and pain. There's the enviromental toll. The UN just released a study stating that the meat industry contributes more to global warming than all transportation in the world combined. Livestock use more than half of our fresh water. Rain forests are being clear cut so crops can be grown to feed animals destined for our dinner plate. Methane gas emissions from livestock are huge. 55 billion animals a year are raised for meat and they have to deficate, and this matter does not go through modern sewage treatment systems but instead ends up in our lakes and streams. We've ravaged the oceans with long lines and nets. Slaughterhouse workers have the highest rate of injury and domestic violence. Desertification of our lands continue due to grazing. We feed the majority of our crops to animals in order for them to grow when this food could go directly to humans. And according to science based studies meat isn't even good for you. It's actually toxic. It goes on and on.
So it's bad for your health, its bad for the animals and it's bad for the enviroment.
Yup...we have different morals and that's fine. The problem for me is that choosing to eat meat gives you pleasure but causes harm to others. Obviously the animals are subjected to terrible conditions, fear and pain. There's the enviromental toll. The UN just released a study stating that the meat industry contributes more to global warming than all transportation in the world combined. Livestock use more than half of our fresh water. Rain forests are being clear cut so crops can be grown to feed animals destined for our dinner plate. Methane gas emissions from livestock are huge. 55 billion animals a year are raised for meat and they have to deficate, and this matter does not go through modern sewage treatment systems but instead ends up in our lakes and streams. We've ravaged the oceans with long lines and nets. Slaughterhouse workers have the highest rate of injury and domestic violence. Desertification of our lands continue due to grazing. We feed the majority of our crops to animals in order for them to grow when this food could go directly to humans. And according to science based studies meat isn't even good for you. It's actually toxic. It goes on and on.
So it's bad for your health, its bad for the animals and it's bad for the enviroment.
I don't want to hear your take on the health advantages of a meat free diet anymore than you want to hear about saving your soul from someone knocking on your door. I'm glad you have your beliefs, just don't push them on me.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
It's moral issues like this that tells us there is no simple Litmus test for determining what is and isn't moral. No appealing to a supreme being is going to solve this moral split in the population.
So, what is really moral or immoral about this?
Do vegetarians really not eat meat because of the way meat is farmed?
Certainly, it's not merely a matter of education. Many people, like myself, are fully aware of animal treatment and acknowledge that animals are conscious beings, yet still eat meat.
The only way we are going to come to an agreement on this, is to identify the causes for either stance and determine the true moral, if there is such a thing. I suspect that morality is abstract and cannot be tested or proven to be one way or the other.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I don't want to hear your take on the health advantages of a meat free diet anymore than you want to hear about saving your soul from someone knocking on your door. I'm glad you have your beliefs, just don't push them on me.
I'm not pushing anything on you, I'm simply laying out the facts. You don't have to read it if you don't want to. I'm not knocking on your door.
well i'm at a crossroads with this. how do we know vegetables/plants don't suffer in some way. we don't know because we can't hear them scream as we're plucking/picking them or whatever. can you actually say for sure the cucumber you're chopping up for your salad isn't going through crazy pain being sliced to pieces. how about all those tomato plants ect. ect. grown in tight cramped greenhouses, fruits and veggies shipped from overseas in cramped containers sometimes left to rot and die in extreme heat in customs.
i suppose when the cute leaves develop eyes and resemble us.......then we will show the same concern.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
this is becoming an 'animals are people too' argument. thats my cue to leave
I don't believe that, but I do believe "people are animals too".
Which begs the question, why is it moral for a lion to eat a zebra, but not for a human to eat a cow?
If the answer is; Our supreme intelligence
That begs the question; What is intelligence? How can we measure it and determine if one really has "supreme intelligence"?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Thats true.
But many vegans do not really eat a diverse group of vegetables, and even many processed soy products are no better that processed meat products.
As a Vegan you have to eat a wide variety of plants in order to get all essential vitamins, minerals, proteins, and fatty acids.
Have a small healthy protion of meat is not only easier, but also provides for additional nutrients as well.
Plus.....steaks taste good:D
But, again, all that being said....there has to be more humane ways of production, and there should be more regulation on the industry.
Nuclear fission
John Robbins new book "Healthy at 100", and Diet for a new America are great
reads. His website has an awful lot of info on alternate food protein sources.
The Garden Diet.com is an extremely valuable site, that is solely dedicated to a raw vegan diet.
Jinjee, is a very educated raw vegan woman, and has 4 beautiful raw vegan children. I can assure you , she hasn't eaten meat, and has breastfed all of her offspring.
No one has mentioned eating nuts, seeds, oils, which all have protein and essential fatty acids for healthy living, birthing and breastfeeding.
Anatole France
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Catch those waves surferdude. I won't even go into the toxic runoff from the meat farms into our lakes and oceans. Pesticides, etc.
I respect people who eat meat, when they actually take responsibility for the animal, and use it the way MAN used it, back in the day.
Where's Creenations dude, who actually goes and hunts his food?
Anatole France
Quite true - I'm not a big believer in 'fake meat' subsitutes. They are unnecessary. Vegans AND others need to educate themselves on proper nutrition. As a nation, the populace is either poorly informed on what is good nutrition, or they choose to ignore what they do know is healthy.
Very true - and I do
And 3/4 joking, I know many think steak tastes good - but consider - I've read that some cultures considered that human meat is tasty too (or dog meat), however we choose not to partake of that. Point being, simply because something is tasty doesn't mean we need it or have to eat it.
I do think we're in agreement that animals should be treated humanely though.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
I'll feel guilty for eating meat that is brought to market using modern day methods when others feel guilty for living in modern day houses and use modern day conveniences.
All that said I think the government could do lots to better regulate the meat industry.
Do you think evolution made a mistake when it gave you meat eating teeth?
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
peace and love!
Anatole France
if i could have sex and eat steak at the same time i dont think i'd ever want anything else.
I saw maybe the first 10 seconds... I love animals!
By the way, anyone in the Denver area, I saw a dead possum on the side of the road, if anyone's hungry... meat is meat!
this post got no play for days, fell off the main page, and was presumed dead.
Three days later, it rises and has 30 posts.
I'm pleasantly suprised.
I would like to say that i am not some whacky hippie with some crazy idealogical agenda... and i didn't post this to gross people out.
Truth is, minus a one year stint at age 20, i have never been a vegetarian. I'm 27 and have eaten meat without guilt all of my life. I was born in New Orleans, i LOVE Popeyes spicy chicken with red beans! lol.
No.
The truth is,
i posted this video because it grossed ME out.
Yeah, i inherently knew that there was animal cruelty involved in modern food production, and i had seen a few short clips of things like chickens getting kicked.
However, no way did i know that the cruelty was essentialy built in to the system, and that this shit does not happen in isolated litte incidents of farmer stupidty ... rather, it's just the way it is.
a. My idealogical agenda also includes not breeding, myself. So no need to worry about me malnurishing a child because of my "whacky leftist agenda" or whathaveyou.
b. Yeah. I've used the "god gave me these incisors for a reason" line... but you know what ... i don't think with all his alleged omnipotence that he foresaw any of what this video entailed. If you are making a comment like that in this thread, "i won't feel any guilt" ... i doubt you watched the video ... i was overcome with "guilt".
:(
Anyhow.
Great discussions on the whole.
Keep it up.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Just kidding, but seriously, hardening of the arteries from animal fat is a real disease.
Try some MACA ROOT, it's better than meat, and makes a man last alot longer. cheers
Anatole France
hmmm Maca Root or steak...steak or maca root. I'll stick with the dead cow, thanks. hahah
i think i do have a small disdain for vegetarians. i think it comes from waiting tables for 8 years. Vegetarians are so goddamn picky and their ticket prices were low so their tips were usually shit. I usually ended up working twice as much for half the money.
oh and i dated a vegetarian a couple of times and she always reacted in utter disgust to whatever i ordered. i didnt act grossed out when she ordered her fucking asparagus sticks or whatever...
That's how i'm made to feel as well - sorry. I'm going to continue to eat meat in small quanitities as i've done before. Because i believe that meat has some important nutrients for my body that vegetables don't have.
i didn't watch the video, because i've seen it all before, and i'm as pissed of with people as ever. but we are always going to have people who are going to eat meat. what needs to be changed is how we look after the animals, and how we slaughter them. what i'm interested in knowing is this: has anyone done anything about that?
Acctually thats not true. In studies its been shown that our bodys are not at all the same to any meat eating animal. For one our teeth, they are not designed to tear meat from anything. (and incase anybodys wondering we didnt evolve to cook our meat lol) And two, our digestive track is not short like carnivorous animals but long like plant eating animals. Also our stomach acid is not the same as in every other meat eating animal, nor is our saliva.
All in all we have no similarities to any carnivorous animal. But are acctually basically the same as plant eaters (or to be more specific fruit eaters).
but I dont agree with being a total Vegan. I do think its ok to use dairy products, and its much more healthy (I drink an entire milk jug in a week alone). But still ofcourse it all comes from the same system, so if I choose not to eat meat but to eat dairy products then Im still going to contribute to it (but maybe not as much). I say this all and at the moment I do eat meat, but I grew up as a vegitarian (not vegan). So I have no problem with eating it, but I do with the way its comes to me. Its very wrong (especially to call it processing the meat, when clearly their living things).
"Its a secret to everybody."
I love PJtaper!
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Push for better practices. I don't care if it drives the cost up. But please don't tell me or ask me to stop eating meat. I don't want to hear your take on the health advantages of a meat free diet anymore than you want to hear about saving your soul from someone knocking on your door. I'm glad you have your beliefs, just don't push them on me.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Forgetting the moral issues of whether it is ok to take another's life strictly for purposes of pleasure, human teeth are NOT designed to eat meat. This argument is really weak. Compare human inscisors to that of true carnivores. Not even close. Ours are much much smaller and less sharp. True carnivores hunt other animals down with these large teeth and claws. Good luck to a human to try and take down a deer that way.
The human digestive track is four times longer than true carnivores. Meat is tough to breakdown which is why animals who eat meat have short intestinal tracts, to be able to expell it quicker. The human intestinal tract is much longer.
As well, true carnivores salivate at the sight of another animal they want to eat. When I ate meat not once did I salivate when looking at a pig rolling in the mud. I didn't thirst to drink their milk while looking at a pregnant cow. I guarantee no one on this board has either. We need to cook it and spice it up first. Carnivores eat meat raw and don't use a knife and fork.
Read the book The China Study. It is the most comprehensive study of human nutrition ever conducted. The doctor who lead this study was a huge proponent of eating meat at the beggining. It quickly became apparent through 30 years of studies that not only is a vegan diet the most healthy, but eating meat actually contributes to disease. Read it for yourself.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
amen brother.
this thread is making me hungry
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Yup...we have different morals and that's fine. The problem for me is that choosing to eat meat gives you pleasure but causes harm to others. Obviously the animals are subjected to terrible conditions, fear and pain. There's the enviromental toll. The UN just released a study stating that the meat industry contributes more to global warming than all transportation in the world combined. Livestock use more than half of our fresh water. Rain forests are being clear cut so crops can be grown to feed animals destined for our dinner plate. Methane gas emissions from livestock are huge. 55 billion animals a year are raised for meat and they have to deficate, and this matter does not go through modern sewage treatment systems but instead ends up in our lakes and streams. We've ravaged the oceans with long lines and nets. Slaughterhouse workers have the highest rate of injury and domestic violence. Desertification of our lands continue due to grazing. We feed the majority of our crops to animals in order for them to grow when this food could go directly to humans. And according to science based studies meat isn't even good for you. It's actually toxic. It goes on and on.
So it's bad for your health, its bad for the animals and it's bad for the enviroment.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
So, what is really moral or immoral about this?
Do vegetarians really not eat meat because of the way meat is farmed?
Certainly, it's not merely a matter of education. Many people, like myself, are fully aware of animal treatment and acknowledge that animals are conscious beings, yet still eat meat.
The only way we are going to come to an agreement on this, is to identify the causes for either stance and determine the true moral, if there is such a thing. I suspect that morality is abstract and cannot be tested or proven to be one way or the other.
I'm not pushing anything on you, I'm simply laying out the facts. You don't have to read it if you don't want to. I'm not knocking on your door.
I don't believe that, but I do believe "people are animals too".
Which begs the question, why is it moral for a lion to eat a zebra, but not for a human to eat a cow?
If the answer is; Our supreme intelligence
That begs the question; What is intelligence? How can we measure it and determine if one really has "supreme intelligence"?