It's a logistical issue, I buy chicken from KFC, KFC buys chicken from the Atlantic and Pacific Corporation, A&P buys it from one or more corporate farming companies. If cruel treatment of animals is occuring at the farming level, it does not follow that A&P, or KFC or I should know about it. Ultimately most of the chicken I eat at restaurants or at home will have come from A&P or some other supermarket that also sources chicken from the same cruel farmers. It's the farmers who are responsible for the in vivo treatment of their animals.
Well, you keep saying "farmers." That's where I'm drawing the line. I come from a long line of farmers and those corporate slaughterhouses are about as much about farming as I am about posting sober.
Well, you keep saying "farmers." That's where I'm drawing the line. I come from a long line of farmers and those corporate slaughterhouses are about as much about farming as I am about posting sober.
I'd agree with that gue. I think it's all market driven now, so few small operators still exist. Big companies own farming and they determine the price that farmers are paid AND this in turn impacts of farming practice.
I guess that depends on what you consider torture?
If the most viable way to raise enough food to feed everyone is to have these animals live in less than perfect conditions is your definition of torture than too bad. What difference does it make? Why are you so empathetic with something that is essentially just a fuel source?
I'm saying animals are not people and it is perfectly fine to harvest them in the most efficient way. It's good for us, not so good for them. Pretty much the same for any predator/prey relationship I guess.
There is a big difference between less than perfect and cruel existence. Did you see the video?
If you happened to visit a farm for some reason, would you just grab a chicken by its head and toss it into a truck? Would you hit a turkey with a crowbar? Would you tie a calf to a post so it couldnt move...for its entire life??
I guess you would, because you dont need to show empathy to something that is just a food source.
I disagree.
And Ron White is a idiot. We are not at the top of the food chain. I dont think there is a "top". But if there is a "top", I would imagine E. Coli, Salmonella, influenza, plague.....and any worm or bacteria that eats your dead body would be somewhere at the top.
As the "most intelligent" species, I think we can figure out ways to be more humane while still keeping the industry economically viable.
I dont think......"Eh cows are just food, lets chain them up and castrate them, and we might as well pluck these chickens while they are still alive."
There is a big difference between less than perfect and cruel existence. Did you see the video?
If you happened to visit a farm for some reason, would you just grab a chicken by its head and toss it into a truck? Would you hit a turkey with a crowbar? Would you tie a calf to a post so it couldnt move...for its entire life??
I guess you would, because you dont need to show empathy to something that is just a food source.
I disagree.
And Ron White is a idiot. We are not at the top of the food chain. I dont think there is a "top". But if there is a "top", I would imagine E. Coli, Salmonella, influenza, plague.....and any worm or bacteria that eats your dead body would be somewhere at the top.
As the "most intelligent" species, I think we can figure out ways to be more humane while still keeping the industry economically viable.
I dont think......"Eh cows are just food, lets chain them up and castrate them, and we might as well pluck these chickens while they are still alive."
Great points, good post, sir.
Another way an American can feel his place in the food chain is to go hiking in the grizzly-friendly backcountry of Glacier National Park in Montana.
The pic of Shelley what's her name...she needs to pull her pants out of her crack.
Yeah, I thought so too gue. Shame it's proving so difficult to find info for Australians. The piglets are cute, but then I've always had a soft spot for pigs. I love their noses!
And as to Shelley's arse, well it aint no fashion parade love, she does have her hands full!
It's the farmers who are responsible for the in vivo treatment of their animals.
I hate to be anal, but you need to check your definition of the term in vivo.
And you're wrong anway. Its up to consumers to demand higher standards of animal treatment. Broiler farms operate in a competetive environment, and do what they have to do to produce their product at a competetive price.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Yeah, I thought so too gue. Shame it's proving so difficult to find info for Australians. The piglets are cute, but then I've always had a soft spot for pigs. I love their noses!
And as to Shelley's arse, well it aint no fashion parade love, she does have her hands full!
Jeanie, you'll be pleased to know that standards of animal treatment in meat production in Australia are very high. I come from a beef and lamb background, so I can't claim to know very much about chicken or pork production. But, I do know that there are less than 1500 piggeries in Australia, and pig farmers are being squeezed out of business by cheaper imported pork products.
Now. Who is this Shelley and where can I see her arse?
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
This is looking like a possibility with orders soon being filled in Melbourne and Sydney as well as QLD. I have just emailed to ask about their farming practice in relation to the animals. I guess I'll let you know if I find out anything.
(tis so funny because "farmerdave" was on Big Brother here and seemed to be a great bloke, and he's gay, "not that there's anything wrong with that" So I guess we'll see what his farmers procedures for keeping and killing is and hopefully it will be all good from the critters point of view, and he'll be an even better bloke in my eyes! )
Just emailed this bloke too and am waiting for a response.
I hate to be anal, but you need to check your definition of the term in vivo.
And you're wrong anway. Its up to consumers to demand higher standards of animal treatment. Broiler farms operate in a competetive environment, and do what they have to do to produce their product at a competetive price.
I think your just being anal.
Of course 'the people' should probably enforce protection for animal treatment. Maybe it should be a political issue. If you feel strongly about it, protest. I'm not the protester type, I'm better at doing other stuff. Besides, I prefer indifference over ignorance.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Of course 'the people' should probably enforce protection for animal treatment. Maybe it should be a political issue. If you feel strongly about it, protest. I'm not the protester type, I'm better at doing other stuff. Besides, I prefer indifference over ignorance.
I don't feel strongly about it, so I don't plan to protest. I'm quite satisified with the standards of animal treatment in Australia, and I come from a lamb producing background, so I have first hand knowledge of the process, and don't rely on sensationalist bullshit propaganda like the crap put out by PETA and the like. (I'm not saying you do by the way, but I'm sure there are many on this forum who fall into that category)
The problem with using terms like in vivo out of context is that instead of making yourself look clever like you were intending to you actually make yourself look like a pretentious windbag who likes using fancy language to try to impress others.
I agree that indifference is usually preferable to ignorance. Much less dangerous.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Jeanie, you'll be pleased to know that standards of animal treatment in meat production in Australia are very high. I come from a beef and lamb background, so I can't claim to know very much about chicken or pork production. But, I do know that there are less than 1500 piggeries in Australia, and pig farmers are being squeezed out of business by cheaper imported pork products.
Now. Who is this Shelley and where can I see her arse?
Thanks scott, I've just been reading some stuff on the web about it and it does appear that we don't have the "feed lot" situation here with our cattle that is practiced in America. (I think that's the right term. )
I must admit we're pretty strict about not buying imported meats here in this house. Mum is paranoid about CJD and such, not to mention that I'm a big believer in "buy Australian". I gotta get a bit more savvy about the pork, (well ham and bacon, I'm not really a pork eater) And I'm keen to find better choices when it comes to lamb and beef. (but again I'm not a big meat eater anyway.)
My ex's family have a wheat and sheep farm in the Mallee and I know that they always treated their animals well, and their neighbours had pigs, which were also treated well, but I can't say what happened at the abbatoirs though.
As for Shelley's arse, there's a photo of it in the link I posted above, but I wouldn't get excited if I were you!
Oh and I probably should add, that I'm not really concerned about milk products in terms of animal cruelty because I spend more than enough time in Gippsland looking at all the cows living happily.
Thanks scott, I've just been reading some stuff on the web about it and it does appear that we don't have the "feed lot" situation here with our cattle that is practiced in America.
Sheep and cattle feed lots are common in Australia. I'm not sure what you're thinking of? You could certainly argue that animals grown under feedlot conditions are not leading particularly 'natural' lives, but you'd have a very hard time convincing me that it constitutes cruelty. Animals in a well managed feedlot have constant access to feed, water and shade, which may not always be the case with animals in the paddock, especially during a drought like the one we're going through now. One of our neighbours runs a small cattle feedlot operation, and we have done a lot of business with him supplying feed. He has a deal with the big bakery in town and gets all their reject and stale bread, which he mixes with the cattle feed. The cattle go nuts for it, especially when there happens to be a few finger buns in the mix
It would be interesting to hear if ayone has tried measuring cortisol (stress hormone) levels in feed lotted vs paddock grown animals to see if there is any difference.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Sheep and cattle feed lots are common in Australia. I'm not sure what you're thinking of? You could certainly argue that animals grown under feedlot conditions are not leading particularly 'natural' lives, but you'd have a very hard time convincing me that it constitutes cruelty. Animals in a well managed feedlot have constant access to feed, water and shade, which may not always be the case with animals in the paddock, especially during a drought like the one we're going through now. One of our neighbours runs a small cattle feedlot operation, and we have done a lot of business with him supplying feed. He has a deal with the big bakery in town and gets all their reject and stale bread, which he mixes with the cattle feed. The cattle go nuts for it, especially when there happens to be a few finger buns in the mix
It would be interesting to hear if ayone has tried measuring cortisol (stress hormone) levels in feed lotted vs paddock grown animals to see if there is any difference.
Well I'd not argue that the drought has made it a lot less happy out there in them paddocks for the critters. But can you explain feedlots to me then please Scott, coz what I was reading about the ones in America didn't sound very good at all. I have no problem with them being enclosed in smaller areas as long as they have water, shelter, food and the opportunity to move around a bit. I mean it's not like they run around a lot anyway. I guess to me it's how many are packed in to the space. But then I will admit I'm a tad iffy about them not being grass fed anymore. I realize that it's standard practice and I do understand the problem with us not having much grass with the drought I'm just hesitant on anything that's fed stuff that it wouldn't normally eat. I'm sure I saw a story on Landline (?) a while ago about this operation that is feeding its cattle wine in the feed mix, which in turn flavors the beef. Apparently it's big in Japan or something? Not sure that'd be my thing.
I'm sure I saw a story on Landline (?) a while ago about this operation that is feeding its cattle wine in the feed mix, which in turn flavors the beef. Apparently it's big in Japan or something? Not sure that'd be my thing.
I've heard about that place too. Its in WA. They're producing wagyu beef for the japanese market, and they do indeed feed the cattle wine. I think its a bit of a wank really, but hey, if people if Japan are willing to pay top dollar (like $100/kilo) for it, then why not? I doubt the cattle would mind, and ruminants have a very different gut flora to us, so they can metabolise alcohol without suffering the effects that we do (I think that's true anyway, will have to check).
Feedlots in Australia mostly consist of a large yard of animals with feeders or troughs of feed (usually grain, but often also mixes containing hay, silage etc. Feeding animal products to sheep and cattle is illegal in Australia) along the side. There is always water constantly available, usually from a self-filling trough system, which provides cleaner water than they would have access to in the paddock if they were drinking from a dam. The animals can move around to and from the feed as they please. The set up varies from place to place obviously, but generally the aim of the game is to get the animals to sale weight as quickly and cost effectively as possible, so feed, shelter and water are all placed relatively close to each other so that the animals aren't constantly walking huge distances to get what they want.
Since the drought started about five years ago my family has been producing more and more lambs by feed lotting. There simply isn't any feed in the paddocks, so we were feeding them grain and hay anyway. Bringing them all in to a feed lot makes a lot of sense because you cut down enormously on the costs associated with carting feed out to the stock in the paddocks, and feed wastage that inevitably happens when you are pouring grain out onto bare ground. Our setup consists of a small paddock of about 10 acres, with several feeders for grain, and two large troughs with float valves for water. About half the block is covered in cypress scrub, which provides shade and shelter. There might be anywhere up to about 1000 lambs in this space at a time.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
I've heard about that place too. Its in WA. They're producing wagyu beef for the japanese market, and they do indeed feed the cattle wine. I think its a bit of a wank really, but hey, if people if Japan are willing to pay top dollar (like $100/kilo) for it, then why not? I doubt the cattle would mind, and ruminants have a very different gut flora to us, so they can metabolise alcohol without suffering the effects that we do (I think that's true anyway, will have to check).
Feedlots in Australia mostly consist of a large yard of animals with feeders or troughs of feed (usually grain, but often also mixes containing hay, silage etc. Feeding animal products to sheep and cattle is illegal in Australia) along the side. There is always water constantly available, usually from a self-filling trough system, which provides cleaner water than they would have access to in the paddock if they were drinking from a dam. The animals can move around to and from the feed as they please. The set up varies from place to place obviously, but generally the aim of the game is to get the animals to sale weight as quickly and cost effectively as possible, so feed, shelter and water are all placed relatively close to each other so that the animals aren't constantly walking huge distances to get what they want.
Since the drought started about five years ago my family has been producing more and more lambs by feed lotting. There simply isn't any feed in the paddocks, so we were feeding them grain and hay anyway. Bringing them all in to a feed lot makes a lot of sense because you cut down enormously on the costs associated with carting feed out to the stock in the paddocks, and feed wastage that inevitably happens when you are pouring grain out onto bare ground. Our setup consists of a small paddock of about 10 acres, with several feeders for grain, and two large troughs with float valves for water. About half the block is covered in cypress scrub, which provides shade and shelter. There might be anywhere up to about 1000 lambs in this space at a time.
Yeah, that's different to what I read about in America. And what I figured was going on here. Seems perfectly reasonable practice to me too Scott. I wouldn't consider it cruelty. And particularly given the drought makes a lot of sense. Thanks scott.
Found this transcript from Landline on the wagyu beef, just not seeing anything about them being fed the wine, but I remember it. Maybe it was a different show? But yeah, a bit of a wank, but then the Asian market is huge for abalone and there's no way in hell I'd eat that!! :eek:
The problem with using terms like in vivo out of context is that instead of making yourself look clever like you were intending to you actually make yourself look like a pretentious windbag who likes using fancy language to try to impress others.
Take it easy man. It just came out, it wasn't like I put much thought into it. It's not the end of humanity.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Take it easy man. It just came out, it wasn't like I put much thought into it. It's not the end of humanity.
Sorry. Like I said, I can get a bit anal about some things.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Yeah, that's different to what I read about in America. And what I figured was going on here.
I'd be surprised if beef feed lotting was done much differently in america. They don't produce much lamb over there, and I can't really comment on the pork since I've never had anything to do with it. I expect that the pictures you see in videos like the one posted at the start of this thread just show the worst practices of a small section of a badly regulated industry. As for chicken in Australia, I know that both broilers and layers do live pretty shitty lives. The biggest chicken producing area in Australia is just down the road from me at Tamworth. My girlfriend was involved in an EPA project a year or two ago looking at assessing the industry's readiness for an avian flu outbreak. Her conclusion after touring a few chook sheds down that way was that although the birds do have a pretty shit life, if the industry is to stand a chance of surviving a flu outbreak they can't really do things any differently. If all the chicken consumed in australia was produced free range there would be virtually no chance of containing a disease outbreak, and the entire industry could be wiped out in a matter of weeks. Just look at the havoc this horse flu has caused. By the way, chickens in australia are NOT fed hormones or steroids to promote growth, and haven't been for over forty years.
As for slaughter methods - Sheep are generally stunned with an electric shock to the head before their throat is cut. Cattle are killed with a captive bolt gun and then have their throat cut. Electric prodders are used less and less now. We belong to a lamb marketing co-op that banned their use long ago. Aside from the animal welfare issue, its in the producer's best interest not to use them, because they leave bruises which result in docked carcass prices.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
If we can feed cattle wine (to enhance the flavors), grain, and whole plethora of other things and go to enormous cost and effort to have "gourmet beef" for the boutique and organic markets, it really shouldn't be that bloody difficult to ensure the health and well being of animals prior to their slaughter. It's not rocket science. It's fine to be efficient, it's not ok to be cruel. And I'm a meat eater. The upshot will be that if I cannot get my meat from reliable, cruelty free, best practice suppliers I'll stop purchasing it. This is a problem that a lot of suppliers are finding here. We are buying less because we aren't happy with the way things are being done.
First "gourmet beef" for the boutique and organic markets is highly specialized, expensive, and not efficient to produce.
Second, I happen to be an amature rocket scientist and feeding the world in a safe inexpensive way is far more difficult than building a rocket! Case in point: Been to the Moon, people still starve all over the world.
I do pray for the day we all have to fend for ourselves again. No more political correctness!
There is a big difference between less than perfect and cruel existence. Did you see the video?
Yes.
If you happened to visit a farm for some reason, would you just grab a chicken by its head and toss it into a truck?
I guess that would depend. Where would the chicken and I be going? Will he chip in for gas?
Would you hit a turkey with a crowbar?
Maybe if it looked at me funny.
Would you tie a calf to a post so it couldnt move...for its entire life??
You say that like it's life is going to be long or something
I guess you would, because you dont need to show empathy to something that is just a food source.
BINGO! You understand my view.
I disagree.
I guess I already figured that out a while ago, but...
And Ron White is a idiot.
He must be doing something right!
We are not at the top of the food chain. I dont think there is a "top".
Well, then you are wrong (scientifically speaking I guess).
But if there is a "top", I would imagine E. Coli, Salmonella, influenza, plague.....and any worm or bacteria that eats your dead body would be somewhere at the top.
Do you even understand what the food chain is?
As the "most intelligent" species, I think we can figure out ways to be more humane while still keeping the industry economically viable.
Why? To make ourselves feel better? You can't make the point that we are the same as the animals and then in the same breath claim that we should be better than they are because we are "special".
I dont think......"Eh cows are just food, lets chain them up and castrate them, and we might as well pluck these chickens while they are still alive."
Dead, alive, whatever. End result = Mmm Mmm Good!
Have you ever killed a fly, mosquito, or spider just because they annoyed you?
Comments
Well, you keep saying "farmers." That's where I'm drawing the line. I come from a long line of farmers and those corporate slaughterhouses are about as much about farming as I am about posting sober.
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I'd agree with that gue.
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There is a big difference between less than perfect and cruel existence. Did you see the video?
If you happened to visit a farm for some reason, would you just grab a chicken by its head and toss it into a truck? Would you hit a turkey with a crowbar? Would you tie a calf to a post so it couldnt move...for its entire life??
I guess you would, because you dont need to show empathy to something that is just a food source.
I disagree.
And Ron White is a idiot. We are not at the top of the food chain. I dont think there is a "top". But if there is a "top", I would imagine E. Coli, Salmonella, influenza, plague.....and any worm or bacteria that eats your dead body would be somewhere at the top.
As the "most intelligent" species, I think we can figure out ways to be more humane while still keeping the industry economically viable.
I dont think......"Eh cows are just food, lets chain them up and castrate them, and we might as well pluck these chickens while they are still alive."
Nuclear fission
Great points, good post, sir.
Another way an American can feel his place in the food chain is to go hiking in the grizzly-friendly backcountry of Glacier National Park in Montana.
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when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I carry pepper spray.
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And a knife.
One time I had some firecrackers. I know a guy that that worked for. He was up a tree and dropped a 40-pack of Black Cats. The griz skedaddled.
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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/food/134685_mindful13.html
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That's a good article.
The pics of the piglets are so cute.
The pic of Shelley what's her name...she needs to pull her pants out of her crack.
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Yeah, I thought so too gue. Shame it's proving so difficult to find info for Australians. The piglets are cute, but then I've always had a soft spot for pigs.
And as to Shelley's arse, well it aint no fashion parade love, she does have her hands full!
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I hate to be anal, but you need to check your definition of the term in vivo.
And you're wrong anway. Its up to consumers to demand higher standards of animal treatment. Broiler farms operate in a competetive environment, and do what they have to do to produce their product at a competetive price.
-C Addison
Jeanie, you'll be pleased to know that standards of animal treatment in meat production in Australia are very high. I come from a beef and lamb background, so I can't claim to know very much about chicken or pork production. But, I do know that there are less than 1500 piggeries in Australia, and pig farmers are being squeezed out of business by cheaper imported pork products.
Now. Who is this Shelley and where can I see her arse?
-C Addison
http://www.farmerdavedirect.com/
(tis so funny because "farmerdave" was on Big Brother here and seemed to be a great bloke, and he's gay, "not that there's anything wrong with that"
Just emailed this bloke too and am waiting for a response.
http://www.organicdirect.com.au/default.htm
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I think your just being anal.
Of course 'the people' should probably enforce protection for animal treatment. Maybe it should be a political issue. If you feel strongly about it, protest. I'm not the protester type, I'm better at doing other stuff. Besides, I prefer indifference over ignorance.
I don't feel strongly about it, so I don't plan to protest. I'm quite satisified with the standards of animal treatment in Australia, and I come from a lamb producing background, so I have first hand knowledge of the process, and don't rely on sensationalist bullshit propaganda like the crap put out by PETA and the like. (I'm not saying you do by the way, but I'm sure there are many on this forum who fall into that category)
The problem with using terms like in vivo out of context is that instead of making yourself look clever like you were intending to you actually make yourself look like a pretentious windbag who likes using fancy language to try to impress others.
I agree that indifference is usually preferable to ignorance. Much less dangerous.
-C Addison
Thanks scott, I've just been reading some stuff on the web about it and it does appear that we don't have the "feed lot" situation here with our cattle that is practiced in America. (I think that's the right term.
I do get my chicken from Lilydale Free Range.
http://www.baiada.com.au/lilydale_final/welcome.htm
Although I admit that free range eggs is a bit harder to understand.
Mostly I buy from these guys:
http://www.freerangeeggs.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=26
I must admit we're pretty strict about not buying imported meats here in this house. Mum is paranoid about CJD and such, not to mention that I'm a big believer in "buy Australian". I gotta get a bit more savvy about the pork, (well ham and bacon, I'm not really a pork eater) And I'm keen to find better choices when it comes to lamb and beef. (but again I'm not a big meat eater anyway.)
My ex's family have a wheat and sheep farm in the Mallee and I know that they always treated their animals well, and their neighbours had pigs, which were also treated well, but I can't say what happened at the abbatoirs though.
As for Shelley's arse, there's a photo of it in the link I posted above, but I wouldn't get excited if I were you!
Oh and I probably should add, that I'm not really concerned about milk products in terms of animal cruelty because I spend more than enough time in Gippsland looking at all the cows living happily.
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Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Sheep and cattle feed lots are common in Australia. I'm not sure what you're thinking of? You could certainly argue that animals grown under feedlot conditions are not leading particularly 'natural' lives, but you'd have a very hard time convincing me that it constitutes cruelty. Animals in a well managed feedlot have constant access to feed, water and shade, which may not always be the case with animals in the paddock, especially during a drought like the one we're going through now. One of our neighbours runs a small cattle feedlot operation, and we have done a lot of business with him supplying feed. He has a deal with the big bakery in town and gets all their reject and stale bread, which he mixes with the cattle feed. The cattle go nuts for it, especially when there happens to be a few finger buns in the mix
It would be interesting to hear if ayone has tried measuring cortisol (stress hormone) levels in feed lotted vs paddock grown animals to see if there is any difference.
-C Addison
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Well I'd not argue that the drought has made it a lot less happy out there in them paddocks for the critters.
Of course I got no problem with finger buns!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Shut up! Now I'm craving lamb chops for dinner!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I've heard about that place too. Its in WA. They're producing wagyu beef for the japanese market, and they do indeed feed the cattle wine. I think its a bit of a wank really, but hey, if people if Japan are willing to pay top dollar (like $100/kilo) for it, then why not? I doubt the cattle would mind, and ruminants have a very different gut flora to us, so they can metabolise alcohol without suffering the effects that we do (I think that's true anyway, will have to check).
Feedlots in Australia mostly consist of a large yard of animals with feeders or troughs of feed (usually grain, but often also mixes containing hay, silage etc. Feeding animal products to sheep and cattle is illegal in Australia) along the side. There is always water constantly available, usually from a self-filling trough system, which provides cleaner water than they would have access to in the paddock if they were drinking from a dam. The animals can move around to and from the feed as they please. The set up varies from place to place obviously, but generally the aim of the game is to get the animals to sale weight as quickly and cost effectively as possible, so feed, shelter and water are all placed relatively close to each other so that the animals aren't constantly walking huge distances to get what they want.
Since the drought started about five years ago my family has been producing more and more lambs by feed lotting. There simply isn't any feed in the paddocks, so we were feeding them grain and hay anyway. Bringing them all in to a feed lot makes a lot of sense because you cut down enormously on the costs associated with carting feed out to the stock in the paddocks, and feed wastage that inevitably happens when you are pouring grain out onto bare ground. Our setup consists of a small paddock of about 10 acres, with several feeders for grain, and two large troughs with float valves for water. About half the block is covered in cypress scrub, which provides shade and shelter. There might be anywhere up to about 1000 lambs in this space at a time.
-C Addison
Yeah, that's different to what I read about in America. And what I figured was going on here. Seems perfectly reasonable practice to me too Scott. I wouldn't consider it cruelty. And particularly given the drought makes a lot of sense. Thanks scott.
Found this transcript from Landline on the wagyu beef, just not seeing anything about them being fed the wine, but I remember it. Maybe it was a different show? But yeah, a bit of a wank, but then the Asian market is huge for abalone and there's no way in hell I'd eat that!! :eek:
http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2005/s1370659.htm
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Take it easy man. It just came out, it wasn't like I put much thought into it. It's not the end of humanity.
Sorry. Like I said, I can get a bit anal about some things.
-C Addison
I'd be surprised if beef feed lotting was done much differently in america. They don't produce much lamb over there, and I can't really comment on the pork since I've never had anything to do with it. I expect that the pictures you see in videos like the one posted at the start of this thread just show the worst practices of a small section of a badly regulated industry. As for chicken in Australia, I know that both broilers and layers do live pretty shitty lives. The biggest chicken producing area in Australia is just down the road from me at Tamworth. My girlfriend was involved in an EPA project a year or two ago looking at assessing the industry's readiness for an avian flu outbreak. Her conclusion after touring a few chook sheds down that way was that although the birds do have a pretty shit life, if the industry is to stand a chance of surviving a flu outbreak they can't really do things any differently. If all the chicken consumed in australia was produced free range there would be virtually no chance of containing a disease outbreak, and the entire industry could be wiped out in a matter of weeks. Just look at the havoc this horse flu has caused. By the way, chickens in australia are NOT fed hormones or steroids to promote growth, and haven't been for over forty years.
As for slaughter methods - Sheep are generally stunned with an electric shock to the head before their throat is cut. Cattle are killed with a captive bolt gun and then have their throat cut. Electric prodders are used less and less now. We belong to a lamb marketing co-op that banned their use long ago. Aside from the animal welfare issue, its in the producer's best interest not to use them, because they leave bruises which result in docked carcass prices.
-C Addison
First "gourmet beef" for the boutique and organic markets is highly specialized, expensive, and not efficient to produce.
Second, I happen to be an amature rocket scientist and feeding the world in a safe inexpensive way is far more difficult than building a rocket! Case in point: Been to the Moon, people still starve all over the world.
I do pray for the day we all have to fend for ourselves again. No more political correctness!
actually......might just go a Tbone.
Yes.
I guess that would depend. Where would the chicken and I be going? Will he chip in for gas?
Maybe if it looked at me funny.
You say that like it's life is going to be long or something
BINGO! You understand my view.
I guess I already figured that out a while ago, but...
He must be doing something right!
Well, then you are wrong (scientifically speaking I guess).
Do you even understand what the food chain is?
Why? To make ourselves feel better? You can't make the point that we are the same as the animals and then in the same breath claim that we should be better than they are because we are "special".
Dead, alive, whatever. End result = Mmm Mmm Good!
Have you ever killed a fly, mosquito, or spider just because they annoyed you?
Fucking murderer...