I disagree with this statement: 'But I feel that way because the side of the arguement that I am on has so much more fact then the conspiracy side'
I believe plenty of compelling facts have been posted by the 'conspiracy side' in this thread and so many others.
What can I say? I can tell people like Roland are very smart...I just want to convince him to switch teams.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
I can see why people think that but I think it is because the conspiracy side leaves out parts of the facts.
For instance, the arguement of why planes weren't scrambled and why they couldn't intercept the hijacked planes sounds very reasonable and does sound like part of a conspiracy. However, parts like below are left out.
"Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them."
They just weren't prepared for anything like this and I still don't think they are which is the sad part.
It's just a bit much for me to swallow that they would never think someone would hijack a flight inside the US and they wouldn't have any training on such a scenario. It sounds like a bunch of made up explaining after the fact to me.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It's just a bit much for me to swallow that they would never think someone would hijack a flight inside the US and they wouldn't have any training on such a scenario. It sounds like a bunch of made up explaining after the fact to me.
You know how the US thinks or used to think. We are invincible and no one can touch us.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
You know how the US thinks or used to think. We are invincible and no one can touch us.
That just doesn't do it for me. It's a well known fact that the white house had knowledge of the possibilty of attacks being carried out using airplanes.
Only one section of the Madrid building was made with steel supports. The rest of the building incorporated a cement core with cement reinforced structure. Therefore those sections didn't collapse. What you have shown here proves nothing once again.
reading...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
That just doesn't do it for me. It's a well known fact that the white house had knowledge of the possibilty of attacks being carried out using airplanes.
and the possability of attacks being carried out with biologicals; chemical weapons; dirty bombs which could leave an area barron for hundreds of years; truck bombs (like blowing up hoover dam, etc) and all types of weapons and possabilities. why doesn't the whitehouse evacuate the entire country until all threats have been dealt with.
you people make me laugh.
Obviously Cement is much more resistant to heat. Who is disputing that fact?
You, or someone, made the comment hey and guess which part collapsed? meaning the steel only section of the building.
Well I showed the time line of how that collapsed. Floors collapsing and hitting floors and coming to a complete stop, then those floors dropping and smashing into other floors and stopping...and so on slowly progressing in that manner over a few hours.
Now that we understand how fire alone contributes to the collapse.
So do you think by adding an airplane to the mix, it now somehow goes from that type of collapse...to complete building failure collapse going all the way down without stopping or slowing down now?
Wasn't the Madrid tower completely raging and engulfed in flames from top to bottom??? Were any of the the WTC towers?
actually I may have misread something about the Madrid tower construction thinking a section of it was designed with vertical steel supports only not vertical concrete supports. Not sure where I saw that... Concrete is more heat resistant than steel.
When I think of a building being on fire, or succumbing to fire, I picture the Madrid tower...not the fires I saw on 9/11.
.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
and the possability of attacks being carried out with biologicals; chemical weapons; dirty bombs which could leave an area barron for hundreds of years; truck bombs (like blowing up hoover dam, etc) and all types of weapons and possabilities. why doesn't the whitehouse evacuate the entire country until all threats have been dealt with.
you people make me laugh.
repeated reports of particular individuals involved leading up to a specific event in a specific manner? and with a previous action of aggression linked to it with a proclamation?
okie...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Slap yourself with a feather at 500mph and let me know how that turns out for you.
Basic physics at work here.
Yes it is basic, its not going to hurt, a feather wouldnt even survive travelling that fast without bending and snapping all over, it was just an opposite to you're statement about water. The coke can anology was more relevant.
Yes it is basic, its not going to hurt, a feather wouldnt even survive travelling that fast without bending and snapping all over, it was just an opposite to you're statement about water. The coke can anology was more relevant.
If you believe a feather hitting you at 500mph isn't going to hurt than you have no concept of even the most basic laws of physics. (I'm assuming we are talking about a primary flight type of feather here)
It will pass directly through your head! I suppose we can debate if that would hurt. Would you feel pain or just die before you could?
This is what can happen when a piece of straw is travelling at around 300mph.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
There's a major difference between knowing it could happen and knowing it would happen.
Hows about knowing it while it was happening? :rolleyes:
Oh yeah....we were busy reading children's books...glazed over and unconcerned.
All the while Cheney's all warm and cozy in the bunker "dealing with" with the attack order.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
and the possability of attacks being carried out with biologicals; chemical weapons; dirty bombs which could leave an area barron for hundreds of years; truck bombs (like blowing up hoover dam, etc) and all types of weapons and possabilities. why doesn't the whitehouse evacuate the entire country until all threats have been dealt with.
you people make me laugh.
Huh? The point was: they are trained and prepared for these types of things so the delay in intercepting those planes that day makes no sense. Please try to contain your laughter long enough to follow along.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
No President will go under oath to testify if they don't have to. It isn't just this administration. That is just the way it is.
And yes how many people have read all the reports. The NIST reports would be a good place for people like you to start. But again, probably too much fact in these for you to believe it.
then every president has something to hide. that doesn't make it right and that is a weak excuse. especially when they failed us so miserably on that day.
i have read parts of the commission report and a lot of the NIST report.
also, what is up with the personal attack man? can you please find any post i've made with a closed mind? and i've read plenty of facts. i lean more towards the conspiracy side, but that doesn't mean im a fucking idiot. if you go directly with the official explanation, your story has plenty of holes in it.
Heres something to blow your mind.... I haven't seen anyone talk about the put options. here ya go. Try to purchase some stock, or some futures, a mutual fund or some put options, without providing your identity. Go ahead and try it! See if you get anywhere. Find out what happens when you tell the investment firm that you want to make a huge investment anonymously. It can’t be done.
Then ask yourself this question: How could someone have placed anonymous put options on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks of 9/11? Then ask yourself why no one has investigated this suspicious deal. Ask yourself why there has been no attempt by the US government to identify the person who anticipated huge profits from a disaster that was yet to occur.
there ya go.....
then every president has something to hide. that doesn't make it right and that is a weak excuse. especially when they failed us so miserably on that day.
Or maybe it is part of the separation of powers. The point is, this shouldn't be the basis for any of your theories of a coverup. There is no precedent for any sitting president to testify under oath in front of a congressional commission in open session. This is not news.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Or maybe it is part of the separation of powers. The point is, this shouldn't be the basis for any of your theories of a coverup. There is no precedent for any sitting president to testify under oath in front of a congressional commission in open session. This is not news.
it is not the basis for any of my theories. it is only something that makes me sick to my stomach. i don't understand why no one was held responsible for letting the attacks happen. they were warned. don't give me that FBI gets 10,000 tips a day bs,... there were specific warnings. it is so funny how the administration plays the 'we never imagined it could happen' card on tv. if they had no idea, then why were there several training exercises regarding that exact thing on 9/11? 50 minutes to respond, yet we couldn't protect the pentagon,... how much money has been spent on fixing the problem? have you seen this?
Heres something to blow your mind.... I haven't seen anyone talk about the put options. here ya go. Try to purchase some stock, or some futures, a mutual fund or some put options, without providing your identity. Go ahead and try it! See if you get anywhere. Find out what happens when you tell the investment firm that you want to make a huge investment anonymously. It can’t be done.
Then ask yourself this question: How could someone have placed anonymous put options on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks of 9/11? Then ask yourself why no one has investigated this suspicious deal. Ask yourself why there has been no attempt by the US government to identify the person who anticipated huge profits from a disaster that was yet to occur.
there ya go.....
i can't find good sources to research the put options. and i can't find it in the commission report. i heard that in the report it mentions it briefly and that they found no evidence indicating a connection or prior knowledge. it sounds like BS to me, but i need to research it more,...
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
That's funny....it says nothing at all about 9/11 ?!?!?
lies...lies...more lies...
rise and shine...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
The 9/11 commission: " A fully independent and impartial commission" (cough...BULLSHIT)
....talk about pretty severe conflict of interest eh?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
That's funny....it says nothing at all about 9/11 ?!?!?
lies...lies...more lies...
rise and shine...
This is a good point, take a look at the link and tell me MakingWaves why is he not wanted for 9/11? as after all he did it according to you.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandTD20Kdrummer
Obviously Cement is much more resistant to heat. Who is disputing that fact?
You, or someone, made the comment hey and guess which part collapsed? meaning the steel only section of the building.
So do you think by adding an airplane to the mix, it now somehow goes from that type of collapse...to complete building failure collapse going all the way down without stopping or slowing down now?[/quote]
Yes adding the airplane to the mix had EVERYTHING to do with the buildings collapsing. That is what I have been saying over and over and over. If just a fire had been set to the buildings they more then likely would not have collapsed.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Hows about knowing it while it was happening? :rolleyes:
Oh yeah....we were busy reading children's books...glazed over and unconcerned.
All the while Cheney's all warm and cozy in the bunker "dealing with" with the attack order.
This is another one I don't understand. What was Bush supposed to do? Jump up and start screaming or just walk out while those kids are reading to him. There was nothing he could do at the time and the Secret Service probably thought it was best to stay put until they knew what was going on and he could prepare and official statement.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
This is a good point, take a look at the link and tell me MakingWaves why is he not wanted for 9/11? as after all he did it according to you.
"Attack on a Federal Facility." If I remember correctly the Pentagon was attacked on 9/11 and is a Federal Facility. Just another example of taking facts and bending them to make it sound suspicious. Try again.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
What can I say? I can tell people like Roland are very smart...I just want to convince him to switch teams.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
It's just a bit much for me to swallow that they would never think someone would hijack a flight inside the US and they wouldn't have any training on such a scenario. It sounds like a bunch of made up explaining after the fact to me.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
You know how the US thinks or used to think. We are invincible and no one can touch us.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
That just doesn't do it for me. It's a well known fact that the white house had knowledge of the possibilty of attacks being carried out using airplanes.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0408-04.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Slap yourself with a feather at 500mph and let me know how that turns out for you.
Basic physics at work here.
reading...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
and the possability of attacks being carried out with biologicals; chemical weapons; dirty bombs which could leave an area barron for hundreds of years; truck bombs (like blowing up hoover dam, etc) and all types of weapons and possabilities. why doesn't the whitehouse evacuate the entire country until all threats have been dealt with.
you people make me laugh.
cement will pop and break apart under heat.
actually I may have misread something about the Madrid tower construction thinking a section of it was designed with vertical steel supports only not vertical concrete supports. Not sure where I saw that... Concrete is more heat resistant than steel.
When I think of a building being on fire, or succumbing to fire, I picture the Madrid tower...not the fires I saw on 9/11.
.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
repeated reports of particular individuals involved leading up to a specific event in a specific manner? and with a previous action of aggression linked to it with a proclamation?
okie...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Yes it is basic, its not going to hurt, a feather wouldnt even survive travelling that fast without bending and snapping all over, it was just an opposite to you're statement about water. The coke can anology was more relevant.
If you believe a feather hitting you at 500mph isn't going to hurt than you have no concept of even the most basic laws of physics. (I'm assuming we are talking about a primary flight type of feather here)
It will pass directly through your head! I suppose we can debate if that would hurt. Would you feel pain or just die before you could?
This is what can happen when a piece of straw is travelling at around 300mph.
http://atmosphericwildlife.com/chases/1998/images/straw.JPG
Think again.
It just was all just such a huge surprise you know...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvFWQC0nGYk&mode=related&search=
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
There's a major difference between knowing it could happen and knowing it would happen.
Hows about knowing it while it was happening? :rolleyes:
Oh yeah....we were busy reading children's books...glazed over and unconcerned.
All the while Cheney's all warm and cozy in the bunker "dealing with" with the attack order.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Bush is already talking about invading Iraq and WMD back in Jan 16, 2000. pre-election and pre 9/11.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjyz-XaeTUo
Powell and Condi speak about Iraq in Feb and July 2001 respectively:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1X-I-38lrU
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Huh? The point was: they are trained and prepared for these types of things so the delay in intercepting those planes that day makes no sense. Please try to contain your laughter long enough to follow along.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
then every president has something to hide. that doesn't make it right and that is a weak excuse. especially when they failed us so miserably on that day.
i have read parts of the commission report and a lot of the NIST report.
also, what is up with the personal attack man? can you please find any post i've made with a closed mind? and i've read plenty of facts. i lean more towards the conspiracy side, but that doesn't mean im a fucking idiot. if you go directly with the official explanation, your story has plenty of holes in it.
and NIST still isn't finished with wtc 7,...
http://wtc.nist.gov/media/WTC7_Approach_Summary12Dec06.pdf
slide 7 mentions thermite as a possible source. there must be sufficient evidence for NIST to be exploring it.
~Ron Burgundy
Then ask yourself this question: How could someone have placed anonymous put options on American Airlines and United Airlines just prior to the attacks of 9/11? Then ask yourself why no one has investigated this suspicious deal. Ask yourself why there has been no attempt by the US government to identify the person who anticipated huge profits from a disaster that was yet to occur.
there ya go.....
Or maybe it is part of the separation of powers. The point is, this shouldn't be the basis for any of your theories of a coverup. There is no precedent for any sitting president to testify under oath in front of a congressional commission in open session. This is not news.
it is not the basis for any of my theories. it is only something that makes me sick to my stomach. i don't understand why no one was held responsible for letting the attacks happen. they were warned. don't give me that FBI gets 10,000 tips a day bs,... there were specific warnings. it is so funny how the administration plays the 'we never imagined it could happen' card on tv. if they had no idea, then why were there several training exercises regarding that exact thing on 9/11? 50 minutes to respond, yet we couldn't protect the pentagon,... how much money has been spent on fixing the problem? have you seen this?
http://www.9-11pdp.org/press/2005-12-05_summary.pdf
how much progess since 2005?
~Ron Burgundy
i can't find good sources to research the put options. and i can't find it in the commission report. i heard that in the report it mentions it briefly and that they found no evidence indicating a connection or prior knowledge. it sounds like BS to me, but i need to research it more,...
~Ron Burgundy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCjbmImBa6w
warm up the boat everybody, were all sleeping together on the water tonight!!!
...and don't forget to calibrate those surface to air missiles on the rooftop to help us sleep!
911 Press for Truth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IHgFwYeB-Y
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Osama Bin Laden:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm
That's funny....it says nothing at all about 9/11 ?!?!?
lies...lies...more lies...
rise and shine...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
watch at 1 hour 9 mins 50 seconds Re: Philip Zelikow.
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=8119854514684528700&q=David+Ray+Griffin
The 9/11 commission: " A fully independent and impartial commission" (cough...BULLSHIT)
....talk about pretty severe conflict of interest eh?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
This is a good point, take a look at the link and tell me MakingWaves why is he not wanted for 9/11? as after all he did it according to you.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Originally Posted by RolandTD20Kdrummer
Obviously Cement is much more resistant to heat. Who is disputing that fact?
You, or someone, made the comment hey and guess which part collapsed? meaning the steel only section of the building.
So do you think by adding an airplane to the mix, it now somehow goes from that type of collapse...to complete building failure collapse going all the way down without stopping or slowing down now?[/quote]
Yes adding the airplane to the mix had EVERYTHING to do with the buildings collapsing. That is what I have been saying over and over and over. If just a fire had been set to the buildings they more then likely would not have collapsed.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
This is another one I don't understand. What was Bush supposed to do? Jump up and start screaming or just walk out while those kids are reading to him. There was nothing he could do at the time and the Secret Service probably thought it was best to stay put until they knew what was going on and he could prepare and official statement.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
"Attack on a Federal Facility." If I remember correctly the Pentagon was attacked on 9/11 and is a Federal Facility. Just another example of taking facts and bending them to make it sound suspicious. Try again.
Pensacola '94
New Orleans '95
Birmingham '98
New Orleans '00
New Orleans '03
Tampa '08
New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest
New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest
Fenway Park '18
St. Louis '22
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=6837001821567284154&q=David+Ray+Griffin
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")