short 9/11 video (includes molten steel columns
El_Kabong
Posts: 4,141
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-649993991751648213&hl=en
parts of it are over the top and i really didn't care for, like some of the graphics...but it has pics of of the columns that look cut w/ molten steel around it and pics of slags of molten steel and video of ppl there...as well as other info...it makes really strong points
parts of it are over the top and i really didn't care for, like some of the graphics...but it has pics of of the columns that look cut w/ molten steel around it and pics of slags of molten steel and video of ppl there...as well as other info...it makes really strong points
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
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NORAD had drills of jets as weapons
By Steven Komarow and Tom Squitieri, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — In the two years before the Sept. 11 attacks, the North American Aerospace Defense Command conducted exercises simulating what the White House says was unimaginable at the time: hijacked airliners used as weapons to crash into targets and cause mass casualties.
One of the imagined targets was the World Trade Center. In another exercise, jets performed a mock shootdown over the Atlantic Ocean of a jet supposedly laden with chemical poisons headed toward a target in the United States. In a third scenario, the target was the Pentagon — but that drill was not run after Defense officials said it was unrealistic, NORAD and Defense officials say.
NORAD, in a written statement, confirmed that such hijacking exercises occurred. It said the scenarios outlined were regional drills, not regularly scheduled continent-wide exercises.
"Numerous types of civilian and military aircraft were used as mock hijacked aircraft," the statement said. "These exercises tested track detection and identification; scramble and interception; hijack procedures; internal and external agency coordination and operational security and communications security procedures."
A White House spokesman said Sunday that the Bush administration was not aware of the NORAD exercises. But the exercises using real aircraft show that at least one part of the government thought the possibility of such attacks, though unlikely, merited scrutiny.
On April 8, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks heard testimony from national security adviser Condoleezza Rice that the White House didn't anticipate hijacked planes being used as weapons.
On April 12, a watchdog group, the Project on Government Oversight, released a copy of an e-mail written by a former NORAD official referring to the proposed exercise targeting the Pentagon. The e-mail said the simulation was not held because the Pentagon considered it "too unrealistic."
President Bush said at a news conference Tuesday, "Nobody in our government, at least, and I don't think the prior government, could envision flying airplanes into buildings on such a massive scale."
The exercises differed from the Sept. 11 attacks in one important respect: The planes in the simulation were coming from a foreign country.
Until Sept. 11, NORAD was expected to defend the United States and Canada from aircraft based elsewhere. After the attacks, that responsibility broadened to include flights that originated in the two countries.
But there were exceptions in the early drills, including one operation, planned in July 2001 and conducted later, that involved planes from airports in Utah and Washington state that were "hijacked." Those planes were escorted by U.S. and Canadian aircraft to airfields in British Columbia and Alaska.
NORAD officials have acknowledged that "scriptwriters" for the drills included the idea of hijacked aircraft being used as weapons.
"Threats of killing hostages or crashing were left to the scriptwriters to invoke creativity and broaden the required response," Maj. Gen. Craig McKinley, a NORAD official, told the 9/11 commission. No exercise matched the specific events of Sept. 11, NORAD said.
"We have planned and executed numerous scenarios over the years to include aircraft originating from foreign airports penetrating our sovereign airspace," Gen. Ralph Eberhart, NORAD commander, told USA TODAY. "Regrettably, the tragic events of 9/11 were never anticipated or exercised."
NORAD, a U.S.-Canadian command, was created in 1958 to guard against Soviet bombers.
Until Sept. 11, 2001, NORAD conducted four major exercises a year. Most included a hijack scenario, but not all of those involved planes as weapons. Since the attacks, NORAD has conducted more than 100 exercises, all with mock hijackings.
NORAD fighters based in Florida have intercepted two hijacked smaller aircraft since the Sept. 11 attacks. Both originated in Cuba and were escorted to Key West in spring 2003, NORAD said.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the reasoning on Mineta's testimony for the stand down order from Cheney is so right. What order should be outstanding on the countdown to the planes arrival from Cheney? How does Cheney become the big war general all of the sudden?.....man that's f%cked!
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
Because nobody really pays any attention to what anybody has ever had happen to them or what they write about.
http://www.ericmargolis.com/archives/2003/02/a_funny_thing_happened_on_the_way_to_karnak.php
© 2007 Eric Margolis
Archives > February 13, 2003
A funny thing happened on the way to Karnak
LOS ANGELES - Ten years ago this week, two close friends and I were flying to Egypt to seek spiritual tranquility at the great temple of Karnak when we were hijacked by angry Ethiopian.
I was turning fifty, my friend 49. To assuage our pain, he, his wife and I decided to go to Upper Egypt and seek inner peace on the banks of Mother Nile at Karnak. In mysterious Egypt, one feels time is not linear, but rather circular, flowing in an eternal cycle of birth and rebirth. So off we flew from Toronto to drink deep from the cup of Egypt’s ancient spirituality.
As our Lufthansa A310 jumbo jet was overflying Austria, heading for Cairo, its captain, Herr Goebel, politely announced, ‘Ladies and gentleman, a young man is holding a pistol to my head and wants to go to Hanover. ’ Not having slept a wink on the previous night’s transatlantic crossing, I was dozing and thought the announcement was part of an onboard movie.
But it was not. In Frankfurt, where we had changed aircraft, a 20-something Ethiopian hid a pistol under his hat and managed to evade airport security, which foolishly used metal-detecting wands to search passengers. No one had looked under his hat. After takeoff, the youth grabbed one of the flight attendants and threatened to shoot her unless he was admitted to the locked flight deck. In he went, and commandeered the plane.
We changed course and flew to Hanover, in northern Germany. There we sat for six or seven hours while the hijacker negotiated with German authorities, who were in a tizzy, while local various police forces and state agencies argued over who was in charge. The Germans refused to refuel the A310 until our Ethiopian threatened to begin shooting crew members or passengers Рand anyone trying to escape. This posed an interesting dilemma, as we were seated forward next to a window emergency exit and were debating escaping. But the long drop down to the ground could have seriously injured us; had we escaped, we might have been charged with causing the deaths of the crew.
While we were debating, the A310 took off. Capt Goebel announced the hijacker wanted to go to New York. ‘New York!’ we groaned, ‘what rotten luck. Any normal hijacker would pick Libya, or Syria, or Sudan. Why can’t we at least be hijacked to the Mideast, where we’re going. Why New York? We just came from Toronto!’ The hijacker, it turned out, had been refused a visa to the US and was determined to get there by hook or crook.
The slow A310 lumbered over the North Atlantic for interminable hours. Terrified passengers held hands and prayed. Women cried and went hysterical. My friend and I were ready to attack the hijacker and stab him in the throat with my Swiss Army knife, but he refused to come out of the flight deck. We sat there helplessly, pondering our fate. I finally went to sleep.
My friend’s wife shook me awake after an hour’s sleep. She had discovered that by plugging her Walkman into the entertainment system she could overhear conversations between the hijacker and New York’s Kennedy Airport. The hijacker was negotiating with the FBI and New York City police. Meanwhile, the CIA, German security agencies, ATF, FAA, NY Port Authority, Mayor’s Office and State Dept were all competing into the drama.
Our hijacker demanded safe haven and immunity. When refused, he threatened to crash the jumbo jet into lower Manhattan, a sinister portent of what was to occur eight years later, on Sept 2001.
As we neared New York, I prepared for death, believing the hijacker would crash the aircraft since his alternative was a mandatory 20 years in prison for air piracy. Somehow, the FBI managed to talk him down, though we remained convinced until our wheels hit the runway that the hijacker would kill our pilot and crash the aircraft. Upon landing, the Ethiopian surrendered; a heavily armed FBI SWAT team stormed the plane and held us all at gunpoint, looking for other hijackers. I was taken away by the FBI, which had been informed I was a ‘terrorism expert,’ and debriefed for many hours.
As I stumbled out of the terminal, exhausted and bleary-eyed, I was mobbed by a small army of reporters and TV crews. The hijacking was a worldwide news event. ABC had me by one arm, CBC, by another, CNN grabbed by lapels. I wrote report for the Sun, broadcast on US TV non-stop for 18 hours, slept a little, took an Egyptair Flight to Cairo, wrapped in blankets in the cockpit by the kindly Egyptians, connected to a Luxor flight delayed for me, and somehow managed to get to the dock and board our Nile steamer just as it was sailing. My friends, who left New York earlier, were waiting.
We sailed up the Nile, totally exhausted, nerves shattered, nearly mummified by dehydration, and suffering near lethal jet lag. But we finally managed to stand in the mighty temple of Karnak and wish each other a happy birthday.
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That's a shame your brain has an instant off switch...a lot of valid points are raised.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I thought a lot of the added graphics were corny and the guy seemed to arrogant and overbearing at times. But still, many of the points brought up were very valid and worth discussing. What points did you think were ignorant so we call discuss them?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
b/c in June 2001 the bush administraiont stripped NORAD and the militay from having the authority to intercept or do ANYTHING towards hijacked aircraft, aircraft that deviated from their flight path or stopped responding...they took it away from NORAD and gave it to Rummy...so they sat around and waited until right before the pentagon was hit before telling the military to react, which is odd considering cheney said he knew like 50 minutes earlier that 'it was obivous america was under attack'
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the video caused my comp to freeze up but once again; we have a video that surfaces almost 6 years after the fact. if you like this crap; you'll love ghostbusters.
That's a big question mark to me. Was NORAD blowing legitimate airliners out of the skies for kicks or something? Wierd...definitely wierd...and suspicious.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I don't mean to sound arrongant or close minded I just think the whole conspiracy thing is a bunch of crap. Some guys hijacked some planes and did something that had never been done before and people weren't prepared on how to react to something like this. Pretty plain and simple in my opinion.
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2 planes hit the WTC....one flying at and looping around the pentagon and nobody does ANYTHING? I could see not shooting it down, but not doing anything at all?
If that makes sense to you then pretty much anything will...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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What were they supposed to do? There was mass confusion and a good communication system between departments was obviously not in place. They scrambled jets but the jets didn't know where to go for about 30 minutes. Not some conspiracy, just a lack of communication. People were not prepared for this. It isn't like the dang plane circled the Pentagon for an hour or so. I talked to someone in Washington DC who worked at the hotel i stayed at and saw the plane right before it hit the pentagon. He couldn't see the Pentagon but he said he could see the plane and heard it. He made it sound like it happened so fast they didn't even know what to do. Didn't know where to run or where to go.
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what has also been done before was not 1, not 2, but 3 steel framed buildings all fell not even leaving hte inner skeleton...
how do you explain wtc7? that wasn't hit by a plane, it was the furthest building away that got hit by debris, yet it fell.
the video also touches upon a military bomber crashing into the empire state building and that didn't fall or anything.
i also thought the parts about if the floors had pancacked on themselves there would be debris from it, yet everything incinerated, temps were far higher than what would've happened from jet fuel (which wouldn't almost completely burned up in the first 20 min)
how do you explain those beams that were cut and had molten steel around the cuts? how do you explain the slags of molten steel? how do you explain ppls boot soles melting from the heat even a day after? from jet fuel?
but i guess it's far easier to believe some hijacked aircraft were able to hit 3 buildings, one 50 minutes after those in charge thought it was obvious we were under attack...you want us to believe they penetrated DC's no fly zone not once, but twice, made a u-turn and NO jets could be scrambled from Andrew's Air Force Base maybe 10 miles away? are you saying our multi-trillion dollar defense network and the missile batteries protecting DC are useless? is it too late to get our money back, then?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
The US gov't knew and suspected 9/11 would happen...they were even running training exercises prior to. There wasn't that much confusion as you are led to believe. They suspected it, and knew it was happening, and did nothing - ZERO. The circumstances were not as naive as they would like you to think they were.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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The buildings that collapsed were enourmous. The force from these buildings falling would obviously have ripped down the inner skeleton with them. WTC 7 had damage done at the base of the building and a fire raged out of control for hours that they were unable to fight because the water lines had been damaged.
The planes that hit the WTC towers were bigger then the one that hit the empire state building and were moving much faster and had more fuel. I don't know why people act like jet fuel isn't hot. It burns between 600F and 900F. That is pretty fucking hot and you don't have to melt the steel just heat it up to weaken it. Also take into cosideration the steel beams that were destroyed when the planes hit. Those destroyed and weakened beams had to support the floors above them and couldn't. Simple structural engineering. Also the jet fuel set other things in the building on fire. It is obvious there was a raging fire for hours (which means it was very very hot). I have burned debris in my yard and after the fire was out walked across it and melted the soles of my shoes some. I am willing to bet this fire was hotter and of course it would melt your shoe soles. Rubber melts around 200-300F. I think it is safe to assume that the smoldering fire from the debris was still that hot one day later.
The DC flight zone was not enforced then like it is today.
All I am saying look at which side has more facts and which one has more assumptions. The conspiracy theory side has almost all assumptions and very little fact that have to be made for the theories to be true.
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Did you watch the original video posted? I'd say it's the best presentation thus far with the most key points, in one place, discussed from a pretty common sense point of view. 9/11 just doesn't add up from any angle. There's something wrong with the whole 9/11 picture.
It's undeniable.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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I will concede that there are legitimate questions that need to be asked about 9/11. However, I don't think the questions need to be about whether or not a plane actually hit the Pentagon or if the WTC towers were blown up on purpose or the structure weakened before hand to guarantee their collapse. If people want to question whether people had prior knowledge of the attacks and did nothing then ask away. I think those are legitimate concerns.
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i agree. it could be repeated today and there's nothing that could be done. first; we're not going to blow airliners full of citizens out of the skies. second; if we did; the debris will fall on other innocent citizens. if it wasn't for passengers with cell phones; the attack would've gone almost un-noticed until complete. it was the perfect attack.
beams were cut........to get to survivors after the fall. now years later these pictures are grafted into videos to feed the weak minded. and they feed on it still.
i think it's time the board banned 9/11 threads.
No doubt planes hit the towers. Would they fall like that? ...maybe...seems odd but for those particular "buildings" freaks of nature or whatever.. I suppose maybe... Would #7 fall as it did? it seems a definite stretch.
If it was common sense that fires could melt down any sky scraper, then why are they built everywhere and so high? It would seem to be a rather risky and foolish endeavor no?
Haven't they already performed tests with jet fuel on steel beams to evaluate their strength?
Was any other country involved in the investigation? Workers from all over the world died in the WTC.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
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Buildings are built that high everywhere because there are systems in place to fight normal fires. The fire has to burn at high temperatures for long periods of time. I don't know for sure but I bet new sky scrapers have to be built to withstand such collisions and have back up systems for fighting fires but I don't think they would ever be able to design around such things as what happened that day.
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I thought the jet fuel all burned off after 20 mins. They towers didn't burn for long before they fell. The WTC buildings were built to withstand a heavier plane strike than what did hit them.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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it was a combination of effects. different applied sciences that must be looked at as a whole; and not individually. you don't see a dentist for a foot problem. jet fuel won't melt steel beams but if you enclose the beams in a chamber under stress; use jet fuel plus O2 in massive quantities; you'll melt them. the buildings acted exactly like a jet engine. the more air sucked up the central passage the hotter the fire.
So it was a design flaw? The buildings all acted like a giant blacksmiths furnace? Where did the air come from, didn;t they say something about the elevator shafts being sealed?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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you need to do more research. they did survive the strike; they didn't survive what happened next. you're not seeing the event as several events.
1) plane strike
2) dispursement of tons of jet fuel
3) the center staiway acting as a chimney
4) the mesh skin holding in heat and directing heat upwards
5) the beams already stressed from the weight of the building
6) vibrations loosening welds and rivits
and that's just the beginning. you either don't or can't understand all the variables involved.
So the buildings weren't built properly is what you are saying?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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blacksmiths furnace is the best analogy. have you ever opened the door to a wood stove? now you have chimney effect. and the buildings being wrapped in mesh held it together long enough to hold the heat. notice how the survivors were in the stairwell where all the fresh air was being sucked up?
the whole thing is cause and effect. one event caused another.
did katrina devastate new orleans or was it the levies? was it the rain; or the wind? it was the cumulation of all the events and that's what happened with the wtc.
there is not a single building built to survive an attack like that. are you saying buildings should be built to withstand plane strikes and meteor strikes now? or should engineers sit and think up wild senarios of what could or might happen and design structures to withstand anything? i'm willing to bet i can drive my truck through your house. does that mean your house wasn't built properly?
Well the WTC towers WERE designed with the thought of an aircraft flying into them. I'm not supporting a theory here, but I remember an interview w/ the project manager for the construction of the towers that said that.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
It you can drive your truck through my house and my house was supposed to be built to prevent exactly that...then yes my house was not built properly.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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