I have posted before that the real problem with 9/11 was there was some intelligence there to warn that this could happen. But again, and this is important before you say I am contradicting myself, people didn't think it would or could happen to us. They chose to ignore foreign intelligence for some reason. They fucked up and we are now playing Monday morning quaterback.
Again, this is what I think the problem with 9/11 was but it stops there. This in no way proves that they blew up the buildings and flew a plane into the Pentagon and put together would I believe would be an impossible conspiracy because of the amount of people that would have to be involved.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
"Attack on a Federal Facility." If I remember correctly the Pentagon was attacked on 9/11 and is a Federal Facility. Just another example of taking facts and bending them to make it sound suspicious. Try again.
Sounds a bit like you're doing the bending to make it fit.
No referral to the WTC is mentioned anywhere. Stick with the facts instead of introducing interpretation to reach a conclusion.
Where's 9/11 ?!?!?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I have posted before that the real problem with 9/11 was there was some intelligence there to warn that this could happen. But again, and this is important before you say I am contradicting myself, people didn't think it would or could happen to us. They chose to ignore foreign intelligence for some reason. They fucked up and we are now playing Monday morning quaterback.
Again, this is what I think the problem with 9/11 was but it stops there. This in no way proves that they blew up the buildings and flew a plane into the Pentagon and put together would I believe would be an impossible conspiracy because of the amount of people that would have to be involved.
Not so. A lot of people would not have to be fully involved and know the entire plot. If you think that, you're not seeing, or don't know enough to see the entire picture.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Sounds a bit like you're doing the bending to make it fit.
No referral to the WTC is mentioned anywhere. Stick with the facts instead of introducing interpretation to reach a conclusion.
Where's 9/11 ?!?!?
Ok, I won't argue about this. It doesn't say 9/11..fine. Doesn't prove anything though.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Not so. A lot of people would not have to be fully involved and know the entire plot. If you think that, you're not seeing, or don't know enough to see the entire picture.
No, I see the entire picture and here is a list of everyone that would have needed to be in the cover up if all the conspiracies are true. Just one list I copied:
"The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.
-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...
Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.
Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.
-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]
-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...
-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?
-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...
-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]
-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...
-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.
-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.
-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.
-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.
-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...
-The CIA
-The FBI
-FEMA
-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.
-NORAD
-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists never existed.
-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.
-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.
-American Airlines (Pentagon)
-United Airlines (Pentagon)
-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes
-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology
-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)
-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)
-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.
-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings
-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover
-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)
-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)
-People who detonated the buildings"
-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long."
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Not so. A lot of people would not have to be fully involved and know the entire plot. If you think that, you're not seeing, or don't know enough to see the entire picture.
And another list:
"The story...
Some criticise 9/11 conspiracy theories because they say must have involved "thousands of people", but that's missing the point. Governments work on a "need to know" basis, people may have some local knowledge of their own involvement, but only a few need to have the full picture.
Our take...
We've seen this argument used several times, and consider it misleading in the extreme. Why? Let's consider one example.
The "Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon" argument has to explain the debris that appeared, and damage like the broken street lights. Some suggest the answer is simple: the debris was planted, the street light damage faked. Now, if that happened, it's certainly most unlikely that those involved would also have in-depth knowledge of explosives in the WTC, but so what? That doesn't matter. If one person came forward to say "I was in a secret army team that planted fake debris at the Pentagon on 9/11", then don't you think that's going to be enough to create some considerable headlines?
And it's the same in many other areas. Planting explosives at the WTC, say. Being a member of Bush's secret service detail on 9/11 and saying you had advance knowledge of the attack, therefore knew he was in no danger. Being on the NIST or FEMA teams and explaining how you were leaned on to produce a conclusion that you don't believe makes sense. None of these people need know everything about 9/11, but they would all have enough information to completely change what we think about the event.
What's more, the "small conspiracy" argument also ignores what's supposed to be a huge coverup. Have you ever looked at the list of people involved in the FEMA and NIST WTC reports, for instance? What's the explanation for these academics, engineers and scientists producing something that others would have us believe is an incompetent tissue of lies? Why they've been "leaned on", of course, or they're scared of speaking out. In which case they're now also a part of the conspiracy, if only after the fact, and have to be included in the total.
What is the total? It's hard to say, not least because some people could have more than one conspiracy or coverup-related task. Still, here are some of the people who have very useful knowledge about 9/11 events (assuming you accept all the 9/11 conspiracy theories; cross off names here for the ones you don’t)
CIA agent Larry Mitchell for meeting with bin Laden in the months before 9/11, and everyone else in the CIA who knows they're not actually trying to capture him after all
GW Bush and various family members (if you're to believe the relevance of Bush family members being involved with the WTC security company Stratesec)
Condoleezza Rice (if you believe she had enough knowledge to warn Willie Brown that he might be in danger)
John Ashcroft (if you believe he had enough knowledge to decide not to fly commercial flights)
Larry Silverstein (if you believe he knew 9/11 was coming and that there were explosives in WTC7)
The 19 people who played the part of the hijackers, if you believe they were just their to play a role and were never on the planes
Enough senior people at the FBI to block progress in the Moussaoui case, ensure the Phoenix memo was ignored, and more
Ahmad Umar Sheikh for funding the hijackers, General Mahmoud Ahmad for ordering him to do so, and enough of the ISI to get the money and cover up that they were doing this for the US
Everyone who found out about the attacks in advance, and chose not to go into work rather than warn anyone else, and didn't mention this after the fact (thousands of Israelis in the towers, and so on), and everyone who warned them
Everyone responsible for the insider trading before the attacks, the CIA for supposedly monitoring these transactions but doing nothing about them, and enough of the SEC and FBI to ensure that the report was a whitewash
The members of Bush’s secret service team on 9/11 (who presumably either knew in advance that he was safe, or haven’t spoken out about their surprise about what happened subsequently)
The five "dancing Israelis" who filmed the attack "as it happened", and presumably many others in Israeli Intelligence, and enough people in the police or FBI to cover up the details of the case and get them shipped out
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the hijackers cars, bags and so on
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the WTC wreckage (passports etc), or removing it (WTC black boxes)
Air Traffic Control and flight schedulers at the takeoff airports (to cope with the double flights), and to make sure they didn't follow procedure in reporting the hijackings promptly
Whoever prepared the "special" planes swapped for the real flights, complete with "missile pod" for firing into the towers just before impact, and the ATC and Norad staff who didn't mention the swap
Norad and senior officers working at the day (so they could lie about the war games and their lack of response)
Fighter pilots who deliberately flew too slowly so they wouldn't reach the aircraft in time
Whoever shot down Flight 93, and the senior officers who helped cover it up
Everyone who researched the passengers, then all the actors who used that research to make fake mobile calls to their relatives, and either the phone company or the FBI for covering up the phone records
Everyone involved in killing hundreds of passengers, assuming they didn't die in the crashes and were killed later
Everyone involved in transporting their bodies to the various scenes if they did, or faking the DNA evidence if they didn't
The people who researched the WTC to find out the best place to place explosives
The people who planted the explosives through the WTC towers and WTC7
Whoever detonated the WTC explosives at various different times of the day
Enough of the New York Fire and Police Departments to shut up everyone else and make sure they didn't try to investigate why all their friends and colleagues died
Everyone who prepared the remote control plane that really flew into the Pentagon, and whoever remote-controlled it, and the Washington Air Traffic Controllers who aren't allowed to talk about the extra radar blip they saw over the Pentagon (if Flight 77 really flew over it)
The Sheraton hotel staff who reportedly saw the video of the plane as it flew past to the Pentagon, but have never said that it wasn't the "official" flight
The people who ensured the Pentagon missile defence systems were disabled to the plane could hit
The people who planted the fake Pentagon evidence, from body parts to black boxes, and those who prepared it
The people who faked additional evidence around the Pentagon, bringing down lampposts etc in an effort to make it look like a large winged plane carried out the attack
Rudolph Giuliani for having advance knowledge that the WTC was going to collapse, and for helping to ensure that the steel was disposed of quickly
Enough people at American and United Airlines to keep quiet about the absence of the hijackers names from the passenger manifests
Enough people at CNN not to question the absence of the hijackers names from the flight manifests, if you believe that's what their victims lists really are
Enough people at FEMA and NIST to ensure any reports and analyses produced were whitewashes
Enough senior officials at the many WTC insurance companies to ensure the doubts were ignored and claims were paid
Everyone involved in producing the fake bin Laden "confession" video(s)
Khalid Al-Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Bin Al-Sheeba for discussing how they planned 9/11 on audio tape even though this didn’t happen, and perhaps al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda for getting the interview (if we assume he knows it isn't true)
All the other Al Qaeda members who've either implicitly or explicitly accepted responsibility for 9/11, even when they know it was carried out by someone else
The staff of the 9/11 Commission for deliberately obscuring the truth"
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Sounds a bit like you're doing the bending to make it fit.
No referral to the WTC is mentioned anywhere. Stick with the facts instead of introducing interpretation to reach a conclusion.
Where's 9/11 ?!?!?
I found a logical explanation. I knew there had to be one out there or I was going to have to add the FBI Top Ten list to the list of conspirators to cover up 9/11.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Nothing the Bush administration nor the 9/11 commission has told us is the truth. When we ask questions, they attempt to "clarify" and explain further by providing additional lies, blatant side-stepping, and outright plot fabrications.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Nothing the Bush administration nor the 9/11 commission has told us is the truth. When we ask questions, they attempt to "clarify" and explain further by providing additional lies, blatant side-stepping, and outright plot fabrications.
You can't say nothing is true. However, I agree with you on that they had to do a lot of clarifying about what they knew before hand and why they chose to ignore the intelligence that was available. This can chalked up to stupidity and arrogance in my opinion, not to a conspiracy.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
I found a logical explanation. I knew there had to be one out there or I was going to have to add the FBI Top Ten list to the list of conspirators to cover up 9/11.
Looks like misleading propaganda to me. What charges apply and to to whom? An arrangement of pictures with suggestive wording to form an unfounded and slanderous conclusion. A legal loophole so they can imply something towards a group of people without really saying anything specifically.
What they are really saying is they don't even know...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
You can't say nothing is true. However, I agree with you on that they had to do a lot of clarifying about what they knew before hand and why they chose to ignore the intelligence that was available. This can chalked up to stupidity and arrogance in my opinion, not to a conspiracy.
That's a common mistake a lot of people make, and exactly what the Bush administration spent a lot of time and effort on to try to make you believe.
They knew. They knew then, they know now...they knew all along. Because it came from them.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
That's a common mistake a lot of people make, and exactly what the Bush administration spent a lot of time and effort on to try to make you believe.
They knew. They knew then, they know now...they knew all along. Because it came from them.
Well to everyone their opinion. We are just going in circles. It's been a good debate except for my immature name calling.
So I will just agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
Well to everyone their opinion. We are just going in circles. It's been a good debate except for my immature name calling.
So I will just agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that.
Listen to some of what David Griffin has to say. That guy knows probably 100 times more than I do about the inner political workings with regards to time lines and related circumstances.
All I can say is that the steel beams act like a heat sink. A fire in one place is not going to heat the steel to any great degree outside the impact zone as heat is drawn away into the length of the beam. Especially an open air kerosene fire which is more or less what jet fuel really is.
The entire building's steel framework cannot be weakened everywhere at the same time from isolated pockets of fire. Especially not at, or near, free fall speed. Most of the building would be at 100% full strength, which would slow down, and resist the collapse progression. The effect of the impact is essentially negligible to areas of the building outside of the impact zone.
This is why is it impossible for the towers to collapse like that into just steel and dust. If you drop a cinder block of concrete from that same height, it's not going to turn into dust when it hits the ground. Not in this universe it isn't. What of all the office furniture? Dust?
No way. It's an impossible reality.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Listen to some of what David Griffin has to say. That guy knows probably 100 times more than I do about the inner political workings with regards to time lines and related circumstances.
All I can say is that the steel beams act like a heat sink. A fire in one place is not going to heat the steel to any great degree outside the impact zone as heat is drawn away into the length of the beam. Especially an open air kerosene fire which is more or less what jet fuel really is.
The entire building's steel framework cannot be weakened everywhere at the same time from isolated pockets of fire. Especially not at, or near, free fall speed. Most of the building would be at 100% full strength, which would slow down, and resist the collapse progression. The effect of the impact is essentially negligible to areas of the building outside of the impact zone.
This is why is it impossible for the towers to collapse like that into just steel and dust. If you drop a cinder block of concrete from that same height, it's not going to turn into dust when it hits the ground. Not in this universe it isn't. What of all the office furniture? Dust?
No way. It's an impossible reality.
I will definetly listen to it. However, as you know I am a stubborn ass and it probably won't change my opinion.
But I do think all of that office furniture and items would be turned into dust. I remember seeing at some point they said a floor was compacted to 10 inches or something like that.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
don't ever call me out again like you did earlier in this thread. and you didn't even respond to what i said after your remark
Calm down man. I was saying that tongue in cheek. Just poking some fun at myself.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
this is a subject i take very seriously considering the implications. i don't leave room for 'poking fun'. sorry,...
I understand and from reading my post only I could tell I was poking fun at myself.
Well I am out of here for a few days. Heading to the beach to relax with no computers. Although we argue a lot I think you guys are cool and like that you are passionate about what you believe.
Until next time.
Seeing visions of falling up somehow.
Pensacola '94 New Orleans '95 Birmingham '98 New Orleans '00 New Orleans '03 Tampa '08 New Orleans '10 - Jazzfest New Orleans '16 - Jazzfest Fenway Park '18 St. Louis '22
This is another one I don't understand. What was Bush supposed to do? Jump up and start screaming or just walk out while those kids are reading to him. There was nothing he could do at the time and the Secret Service probably thought it was best to stay put until they knew what was going on and he could prepare and official statement.
You do relise that bush knew before he went into the classroom to read to the little children don't you? Infact he said that he saw the first plane hit. Now how could he have done that i wonder considering there is no video of the first plane hitting.
But the story changed a couple of times since then so i guess you just believe the last one without looking at the reports that were put out before.
Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
If you believe a feather hitting you at 500mph isn't going to hurt than you have no concept of even the most basic laws of physics. (I'm assuming we are talking about a primary flight type of feather here)
It will pass directly through your head! I suppose we can debate if that would hurt. Would you feel pain or just die before you could?
This is what can happen when a piece of straw is travelling at around 300mph.
what about if i showed you a picture of a unicorn? what would that prove?
But, being able to see quite clearly the context ( "wow look how unlikely it is that this straw hit the tree in such a way right between these pieces of bark! hahaha, imagine if it was you're eye!" ,and not being desperate to believe anything) what would have happened if the straw had "slapped" the tree like i said? understand the coke can thing now? you may if you think again.
And what an interesting debate that would be!
especially with someone so free-minded and eminently likeable!
My thoughts would be that whether it hurt or not would depend upon which part of the brain it passed straight thru, but maybe it would hurt for at least the fraction of a second it took to pass thru the nerve endings. What do you think buddy?
All I can say is that the steel beams act like a heat sink. A fire in one place is not going to heat the steel to any great degree outside the impact zone as heat is drawn away into the length of the beam. Especially an open air kerosene fire which is more or less what jet fuel really is.
The entire building's steel framework cannot be weakened everywhere at the same time from isolated pockets of fire. Especially not at, or near, free fall speed. Most of the building would be at 100% full strength, which would slow down, and resist the collapse progression. The effect of the impact is essentially negligible to areas of the building outside of the impact zone.
This is why is it impossible for the towers to collapse like that into just steel and dust. If you drop a cinder block of concrete from that same height, it's not going to turn into dust when it hits the ground. Not in this universe it isn't. What of all the office furniture? Dust?
No way. It's an impossible reality.
So many factual and scientific errors in your understanding of the events of 9/11.
It's sad how you choose to ignore rational, well thought out, and documented evidence.
what about if i showed you a picture of a unicorn? what would that prove?
But, being able to see quite clearly the context ( "wow look how unlikely it is that this straw hit the tree in such a way right between these pieces of bark! hahaha, imagine if it was you're eye!" ,and not being desperate to believe anything) what would have happened if the straw had "slapped" the tree like i said? understand the coke can thing now? you may if you think again.
And what an interesting debate that would be!
especially with someone so free-minded and eminently likeable!
My thoughts would be that whether it hurt or not would depend upon which part of the brain it passed straight thru, but maybe it would hurt for at least the fraction of a second it took to pass thru the nerve endings. What do you think buddy?
"Whatever"? are u gonna "kick me to the kerb sister"?
I never said anything about the fact that MakingWaves knows the equation for working out kinetic energy, or that u can read, i just "spun" a little "slap-down" on your ill-informed "jive talking".
So many factual and scientific errors in your understanding of the events of 9/11.
It's sad how you choose to ignore rational, well thought out, and documented evidence.
:rolleyes:
Please tell me at what height a chunk of concrete turns into dust when you drop it?
that's the sad part...that's the obvious....who's telling who?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
During the first few seconds of a gravitational fall nothing is moving very fast, and yet from the outset what appears to be powdered concrete can be seem blowing out to the sides, growing to an immense dust cloud as the collapse progresses.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
During the first few seconds of a gravitational fall nothing is moving very fast, and yet from the outset what appears to be powdered concrete can be seem blowing out to the sides, growing to an immense dust cloud as the collapse progresses.
So freaking what?
If you're seriously tryin to tell me that the Bush administration could have seriously pulled this off, when in actual fact it wouldnt be that difficult at all, and then managed to spread just enough "fact" to keep happy the 90% per cent of people who love to stay in they're comfort zone, in the warmth of all the technology and wealth.....erm.....
If you're seriously tryin to tell me that the Bush administration are not a complete bunch of Braindeads, who have worked they're way into the hotseat of the worlds current super-power!....erm.......
You're an idiot, that plane definitely crashed into the Pentagon.
If you're seriously tryin to tell me that the Bush administration could have seriously pulled this off, when in actual fact it wouldnt be that difficult at all, and then managed to spread just enough "fact" to keep happy the 90% per cent of people who love to stay in they're comfort zone, in the warmth of all the technology and wealth.....erm.....
If you're seriously tryin to tell me that the Bush administration are not a complete bunch of Braindeads, who have worked they're way into the hotseat of the worlds current super-power!....erm.......
You're an idiot, that plane definitely crashed into the Pentagon.
So what? That all just flies right by you without a thought? lol oh man..
A New Jersey EMT has gone public on how emergency workers were told that Building 7 was going to be "pulled," before a 20 second demolition countdown broadcast over radio preceded its collapse. The ground zero rescue worker also blows the whistle on how he witnessed multiple underground support columns of the WTC towers that had been severed before the buildings imploded.
"There were explosions. There were flashes. There was molten metal running down the I-beams of the basement levels like lava flows. I've never seen anything like it. Yes, planes hit the buildings - anybody who says otherwise is a moron. But the explosions - the rapid, symmetrical, sequential explosions - they happened," states 'Mike'.
He explains how he and others were in the basement of one of the towers helping injured victims when he saw "One of the huge steel and concrete support pillars with an 8 foot section blown out of the center of it." Looking around, Mike saw other support columns that were in the same condition,
Perhaps of even more interest, the EMT relates the fact that hundreds of emergency rescue personnel were told over bullhorns that Building 7, a 47 story skyscraper adjacent the twin towers that was not hit by a plane yet imploded symmetrically later in the afternoon on 9/11, was about to be "pulled" and that a 20 second radio countdown preceded its collapse.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
What of the testimony of employees in the basement before the impact that heard and saw and felt explosions in the basement?
They saw the smoke, felt the heat, even their hair burnt from it.
What of the guy that had the skin blew off his arms from explosions in the basement before the planes hit? This is factual.
All this testimony was covered up. Explosions in the basements before the planes hit. My my...
They can't hide it forever. The time is coming....people are waking up.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Al-Qaeda doesn't exist. 9/11 was the CIA. 7/7 was MI5. The Morocco bombings were the Moroccon government. The Istanbul bombings were the Turkish government. The Madrid bombings were the Spanish government, etc, etc.
Look, I'm not gonna bother arguing with the conspiracy theorists because they only see what they want to see.
A restaurant with a smoking section is like a swimming pool with a pissing section
Al-Qaeda doesn't exist. 9/11 was the CIA. 7/7 was MI5. The Morocco bombings were the Moroccon government. The Istanbul bombings were the Turkish government. The Madrid bombings were the Spanish government, etc, etc.
Look, I'm not gonna bother arguing with the conspiracy theorists because they only see what they want to see.
When you get a chance do a google video search on "The Power of Nightmares"
your views are too simplistic...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
I have posted before that the real problem with 9/11 was there was some intelligence there to warn that this could happen. But again, and this is important before you say I am contradicting myself, people didn't think it would or could happen to us. They chose to ignore foreign intelligence for some reason. They fucked up and we are now playing Monday morning quaterback.
Again, this is what I think the problem with 9/11 was but it stops there. This in no way proves that they blew up the buildings and flew a plane into the Pentagon and put together would I believe would be an impossible conspiracy because of the amount of people that would have to be involved.
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Sounds a bit like you're doing the bending to make it fit.
No referral to the WTC is mentioned anywhere. Stick with the facts instead of introducing interpretation to reach a conclusion.
Where's 9/11 ?!?!?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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Not so. A lot of people would not have to be fully involved and know the entire plot. If you think that, you're not seeing, or don't know enough to see the entire picture.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Ok, I won't argue about this. It doesn't say 9/11..fine. Doesn't prove anything though.
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No, I see the entire picture and here is a list of everyone that would have needed to be in the cover up if all the conspiracies are true. Just one list I copied:
"The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.
-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...
Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=OnlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=130026
Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.
-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]
-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...
-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?
-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...
-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]
-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...
-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.
-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.
-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.
-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...
-The CIA
-The FBI
-FEMA
-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.
-NORAD
-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists never existed.
-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.
-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.
-American Airlines (Pentagon)
-United Airlines (Pentagon)
-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes
-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology
-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)
-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)
-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.
-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings
-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover
-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)
-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)
-People who detonated the buildings"
-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long."
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And another list:
"The story...
Some criticise 9/11 conspiracy theories because they say must have involved "thousands of people", but that's missing the point. Governments work on a "need to know" basis, people may have some local knowledge of their own involvement, but only a few need to have the full picture.
Our take...
We've seen this argument used several times, and consider it misleading in the extreme. Why? Let's consider one example.
The "Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon" argument has to explain the debris that appeared, and damage like the broken street lights. Some suggest the answer is simple: the debris was planted, the street light damage faked. Now, if that happened, it's certainly most unlikely that those involved would also have in-depth knowledge of explosives in the WTC, but so what? That doesn't matter. If one person came forward to say "I was in a secret army team that planted fake debris at the Pentagon on 9/11", then don't you think that's going to be enough to create some considerable headlines?
And it's the same in many other areas. Planting explosives at the WTC, say. Being a member of Bush's secret service detail on 9/11 and saying you had advance knowledge of the attack, therefore knew he was in no danger. Being on the NIST or FEMA teams and explaining how you were leaned on to produce a conclusion that you don't believe makes sense. None of these people need know everything about 9/11, but they would all have enough information to completely change what we think about the event.
What's more, the "small conspiracy" argument also ignores what's supposed to be a huge coverup. Have you ever looked at the list of people involved in the FEMA and NIST WTC reports, for instance? What's the explanation for these academics, engineers and scientists producing something that others would have us believe is an incompetent tissue of lies? Why they've been "leaned on", of course, or they're scared of speaking out. In which case they're now also a part of the conspiracy, if only after the fact, and have to be included in the total.
What is the total? It's hard to say, not least because some people could have more than one conspiracy or coverup-related task. Still, here are some of the people who have very useful knowledge about 9/11 events (assuming you accept all the 9/11 conspiracy theories; cross off names here for the ones you don’t)
CIA agent Larry Mitchell for meeting with bin Laden in the months before 9/11, and everyone else in the CIA who knows they're not actually trying to capture him after all
GW Bush and various family members (if you're to believe the relevance of Bush family members being involved with the WTC security company Stratesec)
Condoleezza Rice (if you believe she had enough knowledge to warn Willie Brown that he might be in danger)
John Ashcroft (if you believe he had enough knowledge to decide not to fly commercial flights)
Larry Silverstein (if you believe he knew 9/11 was coming and that there were explosives in WTC7)
The 19 people who played the part of the hijackers, if you believe they were just their to play a role and were never on the planes
Enough senior people at the FBI to block progress in the Moussaoui case, ensure the Phoenix memo was ignored, and more
Ahmad Umar Sheikh for funding the hijackers, General Mahmoud Ahmad for ordering him to do so, and enough of the ISI to get the money and cover up that they were doing this for the US
Everyone who found out about the attacks in advance, and chose not to go into work rather than warn anyone else, and didn't mention this after the fact (thousands of Israelis in the towers, and so on), and everyone who warned them
Everyone responsible for the insider trading before the attacks, the CIA for supposedly monitoring these transactions but doing nothing about them, and enough of the SEC and FBI to ensure that the report was a whitewash
The members of Bush’s secret service team on 9/11 (who presumably either knew in advance that he was safe, or haven’t spoken out about their surprise about what happened subsequently)
The five "dancing Israelis" who filmed the attack "as it happened", and presumably many others in Israeli Intelligence, and enough people in the police or FBI to cover up the details of the case and get them shipped out
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the hijackers cars, bags and so on
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the WTC wreckage (passports etc), or removing it (WTC black boxes)
Air Traffic Control and flight schedulers at the takeoff airports (to cope with the double flights), and to make sure they didn't follow procedure in reporting the hijackings promptly
Whoever prepared the "special" planes swapped for the real flights, complete with "missile pod" for firing into the towers just before impact, and the ATC and Norad staff who didn't mention the swap
Norad and senior officers working at the day (so they could lie about the war games and their lack of response)
Fighter pilots who deliberately flew too slowly so they wouldn't reach the aircraft in time
Whoever shot down Flight 93, and the senior officers who helped cover it up
Everyone who researched the passengers, then all the actors who used that research to make fake mobile calls to their relatives, and either the phone company or the FBI for covering up the phone records
Everyone involved in killing hundreds of passengers, assuming they didn't die in the crashes and were killed later
Everyone involved in transporting their bodies to the various scenes if they did, or faking the DNA evidence if they didn't
The people who researched the WTC to find out the best place to place explosives
The people who planted the explosives through the WTC towers and WTC7
Whoever detonated the WTC explosives at various different times of the day
Enough of the New York Fire and Police Departments to shut up everyone else and make sure they didn't try to investigate why all their friends and colleagues died
Everyone who prepared the remote control plane that really flew into the Pentagon, and whoever remote-controlled it, and the Washington Air Traffic Controllers who aren't allowed to talk about the extra radar blip they saw over the Pentagon (if Flight 77 really flew over it)
The Sheraton hotel staff who reportedly saw the video of the plane as it flew past to the Pentagon, but have never said that it wasn't the "official" flight
The people who ensured the Pentagon missile defence systems were disabled to the plane could hit
The people who planted the fake Pentagon evidence, from body parts to black boxes, and those who prepared it
The people who faked additional evidence around the Pentagon, bringing down lampposts etc in an effort to make it look like a large winged plane carried out the attack
Rudolph Giuliani for having advance knowledge that the WTC was going to collapse, and for helping to ensure that the steel was disposed of quickly
Enough people at American and United Airlines to keep quiet about the absence of the hijackers names from the passenger manifests
Enough people at CNN not to question the absence of the hijackers names from the flight manifests, if you believe that's what their victims lists really are
Enough people at FEMA and NIST to ensure any reports and analyses produced were whitewashes
Enough senior officials at the many WTC insurance companies to ensure the doubts were ignored and claims were paid
Everyone involved in producing the fake bin Laden "confession" video(s)
Khalid Al-Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Bin Al-Sheeba for discussing how they planned 9/11 on audio tape even though this didn’t happen, and perhaps al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda for getting the interview (if we assume he knows it isn't true)
All the other Al Qaeda members who've either implicitly or explicitly accepted responsibility for 9/11, even when they know it was carried out by someone else
The staff of the 9/11 Commission for deliberately obscuring the truth"
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I found a logical explanation. I knew there had to be one out there or I was going to have to add the FBI Top Ten list to the list of conspirators to cover up 9/11.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm
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and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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You can't say nothing is true. However, I agree with you on that they had to do a lot of clarifying about what they knew before hand and why they chose to ignore the intelligence that was available. This can chalked up to stupidity and arrogance in my opinion, not to a conspiracy.
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Looks like misleading propaganda to me. What charges apply and to to whom? An arrangement of pictures with suggestive wording to form an unfounded and slanderous conclusion. A legal loophole so they can imply something towards a group of people without really saying anything specifically.
What they are really saying is they don't even know...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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That's a common mistake a lot of people make, and exactly what the Bush administration spent a lot of time and effort on to try to make you believe.
They knew. They knew then, they know now...they knew all along. Because it came from them.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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Well to everyone their opinion. We are just going in circles. It's been a good debate except for my immature name calling.
So I will just agree to disagree on this one and leave it at that.
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Listen to some of what David Griffin has to say. That guy knows probably 100 times more than I do about the inner political workings with regards to time lines and related circumstances.
All I can say is that the steel beams act like a heat sink. A fire in one place is not going to heat the steel to any great degree outside the impact zone as heat is drawn away into the length of the beam. Especially an open air kerosene fire which is more or less what jet fuel really is.
The entire building's steel framework cannot be weakened everywhere at the same time from isolated pockets of fire. Especially not at, or near, free fall speed. Most of the building would be at 100% full strength, which would slow down, and resist the collapse progression. The effect of the impact is essentially negligible to areas of the building outside of the impact zone.
This is why is it impossible for the towers to collapse like that into just steel and dust. If you drop a cinder block of concrete from that same height, it's not going to turn into dust when it hits the ground. Not in this universe it isn't. What of all the office furniture? Dust?
No way. It's an impossible reality.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I will definetly listen to it. However, as you know I am a stubborn ass and it probably won't change my opinion.
But I do think all of that office furniture and items would be turned into dust. I remember seeing at some point they said a floor was compacted to 10 inches or something like that.
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wow
don't ever call me out again like you did earlier in this thread. and you didn't even respond to what i said after your remark
~Ron Burgundy
Calm down man. I was saying that tongue in cheek. Just poking some fun at myself.
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this is a subject i take very seriously considering the implications. i don't leave room for 'poking fun'. sorry,...
~Ron Burgundy
I understand and from reading my post only I could tell I was poking fun at myself.
Well I am out of here for a few days. Heading to the beach to relax with no computers. Although we argue a lot I think you guys are cool and like that you are passionate about what you believe.
Until next time.
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You do relise that bush knew before he went into the classroom to read to the little children don't you? Infact he said that he saw the first plane hit. Now how could he have done that i wonder considering there is no video of the first plane hitting.
But the story changed a couple of times since then so i guess you just believe the last one without looking at the reports that were put out before.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
a picture without context is not proof
what about if i showed you a picture of a unicorn? what would that prove?
But, being able to see quite clearly the context ( "wow look how unlikely it is that this straw hit the tree in such a way right between these pieces of bark! hahaha, imagine if it was you're eye!" ,and not being desperate to believe anything) what would have happened if the straw had "slapped" the tree like i said? understand the coke can thing now? you may if you think again.
And what an interesting debate that would be!
especially with someone so free-minded and eminently likeable!
My thoughts would be that whether it hurt or not would depend upon which part of the brain it passed straight thru, but maybe it would hurt for at least the fraction of a second it took to pass thru the nerve endings. What do you think buddy?
So many factual and scientific errors in your understanding of the events of 9/11.
It's sad how you choose to ignore rational, well thought out, and documented evidence.
:rolleyes:
Keep spinning man. Whatever.
As MakingWaves said earlier...
"E= 0.5m * v^2
when you square that velocity big things happen."
I'll leave you with that.
"Whatever"? are u gonna "kick me to the kerb sister"?
I never said anything about the fact that MakingWaves knows the equation for working out kinetic energy, or that u can read, i just "spun" a little "slap-down" on your ill-informed "jive talking".
I'll take that as a no on the coke can
Please tell me at what height a chunk of concrete turns into dust when you drop it?
that's the sad part...that's the obvious....who's telling who?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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During the first few seconds of a gravitational fall nothing is moving very fast, and yet from the outset what appears to be powdered concrete can be seem blowing out to the sides, growing to an immense dust cloud as the collapse progresses.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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So freaking what?
If you're seriously tryin to tell me that the Bush administration could have seriously pulled this off, when in actual fact it wouldnt be that difficult at all, and then managed to spread just enough "fact" to keep happy the 90% per cent of people who love to stay in they're comfort zone, in the warmth of all the technology and wealth.....erm.....
If you're seriously tryin to tell me that the Bush administration are not a complete bunch of Braindeads, who have worked they're way into the hotseat of the worlds current super-power!....erm.......
You're an idiot, that plane definitely crashed into the Pentagon.
So what? That all just flies right by you without a thought? lol oh man..
A New Jersey EMT has gone public on how emergency workers were told that Building 7 was going to be "pulled," before a 20 second demolition countdown broadcast over radio preceded its collapse. The ground zero rescue worker also blows the whistle on how he witnessed multiple underground support columns of the WTC towers that had been severed before the buildings imploded.
"There were explosions. There were flashes. There was molten metal running down the I-beams of the basement levels like lava flows. I've never seen anything like it. Yes, planes hit the buildings - anybody who says otherwise is a moron. But the explosions - the rapid, symmetrical, sequential explosions - they happened," states 'Mike'.
He explains how he and others were in the basement of one of the towers helping injured victims when he saw "One of the huge steel and concrete support pillars with an 8 foot section blown out of the center of it." Looking around, Mike saw other support columns that were in the same condition,
Perhaps of even more interest, the EMT relates the fact that hundreds of emergency rescue personnel were told over bullhorns that Building 7, a 47 story skyscraper adjacent the twin towers that was not hit by a plane yet imploded symmetrically later in the afternoon on 9/11, was about to be "pulled" and that a 20 second radio countdown preceded its collapse.
http://www.informationliberation.com/index.php?id=20096
,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
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They saw the smoke, felt the heat, even their hair burnt from it.
What of the guy that had the skin blew off his arms from explosions in the basement before the planes hit? This is factual.
All this testimony was covered up. Explosions in the basements before the planes hit. My my...
They can't hide it forever. The time is coming....people are waking up.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Look, I'm not gonna bother arguing with the conspiracy theorists because they only see what they want to see.
When you get a chance do a google video search on "The Power of Nightmares"
your views are too simplistic...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")