short 9/11 video (includes molten steel columns

MakingWaves

spiral out wrote:

Because they have footage so why haven't they shown it, what are they hiding? they love to show the towers being hit so why not the pentagon.

Deny what?

There aren't a lot of tourist standing around with cameras like there are in NYC. There was a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon but it is just a grainy security camera that doesn't show enough to convince people like you.

MakingWaves

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Watch at 45 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wVLeKwSkXA

what explains this?

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

go to this website. But again. This probably has too much fact and not opinions in it to make sense.

MakingWaves

sonicreducer wrote:

prove it

NO the proof is on you to prove some ridiculous theory that they were cut to make the buildings collapse. The logical explanation is they were cut during clean up.

mookie9999

Specifics wrote:

I've never blown up a building, but i have dem'ed many Bridges, I-beams, vehicles, concrete blocks . All you need is a shaped charge if you want maximum cutting power or it can simply be done by making sure you're charge runs the full length of the area to be cut on both sides without "opposing" the blasts. No need for any pre-cutting at all. I've seen an engine block dissappear of the face of the earth against 2 sticks of PE4, and Bridges devastated by set-ups you wouldnt see if you walked across it. Special forces could have bought that building down no problem, well, her Majestys' special forces could:) im not saying they did!

Ok, so with your experience maybe you could answer the following questions:

1. Since you have blown up bridges, etc. how long in advance in needed to prep for a job, say a bridge?

2. Having seen demos on tv that have failed to take a small building down (like a casino) on the first try, how much PE4 and/or other explosives would be needed to take down structures like the WTC? How could they (whoever set the explosives) be certain that the buildings would come down?

3. Realizing that at a usual demolition of a building there is always a fire crew on site, and considering the amount of firefighters that were on site that day that lived, wouldn't some of them have recognized this as a controlled explosion? Wouldn't some of them have come forward?

4. Considering whoever set the explosives were part of a mass conspiracy to make this appear to be soley a terroist act, and who needed to have the melted steel and weakening structure of the WTC story to back them up, why wouldn't they take down the buildings in the order they were hit?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

What's up with the interview of the firefighter the had his house ransacked by fully armored swat teams with machine guns, the bus stop in front of his house was actually moved for fear of "neighborhood safety", and was also improperly charged with possessing a legal firearm in another state which was full out gov't harassment. They lied to him citing a "chemical smell" was coming from his house so they could ransack it. A ground zero hero is being treated this way? wtf?

This guy was saying the consensus is that 75% of police and firemen at ground zero believe there was a cover up. The reason they are not saying anything is because they risk losing their health benefits and pension, and have their lives terrorized by the gov't like the dude above for speaking out. I'll see if I can find the MP3 of it.

most everyone that was at ground zero is sick and dying from asbestos lung. I doubt they would risk losing their health benefits.

Time will tell, but if these guys speak out they lose everything, and are branded terrorists by the govt, and treated as such.

mookie9999

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

What's up with the interview of the firefighter the had his house ransacked by fully armored swat teams with machine guns, the bus stop in front of his house was actually moved for fear of "neighborhood safety", and was also improperly charged with possessing a legal firearm in another state which was full out gov't harassment. They lied to him citing a "chemical smell" was coming from his house so they could ransack it. A ground zero hero is being treated this way? wtf?

This guy was saying the consensus is that 75% of police and firemen at ground zero believe there was a cover up. The reason they are not saying anything is because they risk losing their health benefits and pension, and have their lives terrorized by the gov't like the dude above for speaking out. I'll see if I can find the MP3 of it.

most everyone that was at ground zero is sick and dying from asbestos lung. I doubt they would risk losing their health benefits.

Time will tell, but if these guys speak out they lose everything, and are branded terrorists by the govt, and treated as such.

These are the type of examples that put aside valid arguments and rush right back to big brother gonna take you down. What justification would the city have to take away a workers health benefits? I hope that if firefighters do come out (if there is something to come out to) do it in a major forum, and not online. But let me guess, that would be too risky and they would mysteriously end up dead, right?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

mookie9999 wrote:

These are the type of examples that put aside valid arguments and rush right back to big brother gonna take you down. What justification would the city have to take away a workers health benefits? I hope that if firefighters do come out (if there is something to come out to) do it in a major forum, and not online. But let me guess, that would be too risky and they would mysteriously end up dead, right?

Well they did it to this guy, as one of the first to speak out. Go figure? If most of the police and fire fighters have something to say why aren't we listening?

What's the big hush hush about?

I don't think they threaten their pension or benefits directly, however if they are dishonorably discharged from service for whatever reason...

MakingWaves

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

What's up with the interview of the firefighter the had his house ransacked by fully armored swat teams with machine guns, the bus stop in front of his house was actually moved for fear of "neighborhood safety", and was also improperly charged with possessing a legal firearm in another state which was full out gov't harassment. They lied to him citing a "chemical smell" was coming from his house so they could ransack it. A ground zero hero is being treated this way? wtf?

This guy was saying the consensus is that 75% of police and firemen at ground zero believe there was a cover up. The reason they are not saying anything is because they risk losing their health benefits and pension, and have their lives terrorized by the gov't like the dude above for speaking out. I'll see if I can find the MP3 of it.

most everyone that was at ground zero is sick and dying from asbestos lung. I doubt they would risk losing their health benefits.

Time will tell, but if these guys speak out they lose everything, and are branded terrorists by the govt, and treated as such.

If this is true I would definetly want to listen. However, I doubt the validity of the story.

mookie9999

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Well they did it to this guy, as one of the first to speak out. Go figure? If most of the police and fire fighters have something to say why aren't we listening?

What's the big hush hush about?

I don't think they threaten their pension of benefits directly, however if they are dishonorably discharged from service for whatever reason...

First, I would love to see more about this guy who spoke out. A quick google search turned up nothing. Second, let's assume what he says is true, that 75% of police, fire, and EMT's are believe there is a cover-up, then where are all of them? 75% is a helluva a lot of people. Strength in numbers anyone?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MakingWaves wrote:

If this is true I would definetly want to listen. However, I doubt the validity of the story.

here's the guy. I listened to an MP3 last night of what I was referring to specifically, but I can't find it...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5960554325625810328

spiral out

MakingWaves wrote:

Strange how you believe Bin Laden over everyone else. And there have also been tapes where Bin Laden says he did 9/11 and some of his people have said they did it.

But the tape where he supposidly said this is not him. So where's the prof?

Also it is known that their is no real link to Bin Laden. So if he did do it he covered his tracks really well.

MakingWaves

spiral out wrote:

But the tape where he supposidly said this is not him. So where's the prof?

Also it is known that their is no real link to Bin Laden. So if he did do it he covered his tracks really well.

I have no idea what you are talking about. From what I have seen and read there is plenty of proof that Bin Laden and Al Queda did this as well as the bombings in Spain.

spiral out

MakingWaves wrote:

I have no idea what you are talking about. From what I have seen and read there is plenty of proof that Bin Laden and Al Queda did this as well as the bombings in Spain.

Show me the proof linking him to 9/11.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

First responder speaks out.

at 19 mins he makes some good points which are often overlooked.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2283625397351664218

He aslo was right at the foot of building 7 and says he heard boom, boom, boom, etc.. in succession of explosives going off as #7 came down.

MakingWaves

spiral out wrote:

Show me the proof linking him to 9/11.

Well here are words from Bin Laden.

"So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance."

sonicreducer

MakingWaves wrote:

NO the proof is on you to prove some ridiculous theory that they were cut to make the buildings collapse. The logical explanation is they were cut during clean up.

how is your assumption more logical than mine?

were the firefighters trained demolishers? did NYC make a contract for a clean up crew or did they leave it up to the firefighters? assuming they hired pros, why would they spend the money to cut these beams still 5 feet above the ground versus cutting them to the base,...

if anyone finds the source and date for this picture, id love to see it,...

MakingWaves

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

here's the guy. I listened to an MP3 last night of what I was referring to specifically, but I can't find it...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5960554325625810328

Ok, so this guy is a whistle blower for sick responders to 9/11 and I am sure enough isn't being done for those people. But what does this have to do with anything that we are talking about.
This guy is a little crazy though. China is paying for our war against terror?? I feel sorry for this guy if he is sick from working ground zero but he is just an angry person looking for someone to blame.

El_Kabong

MakingWaves wrote:

Planes were scrambled but didn't reach the plane before it crashed. and no the pilot didn't tell me this. He did say it in an interview but again...just keep ignoring facts.

where were the planes scrambled from? not from andrew's air force base (10 miles from DC)

it's funny ppl say 'he said it in an interview, it's 100% fact!!!'

but when roland or anyone else brings up an interview w/ a firefighter who was THERE or someone you guys say 'i doubt the validity of his story'

MakingWaves

sonicreducer wrote:

how is your assumption more logical than mine?

were the firefighters trained demolishers? did NYC make a contract for a clean up crew or did they leave it up to the firefighters? assuming they hired pros, why would they spend the money to cut these beams still 5 feet above the ground versus cutting them to the base,...

if anyone finds the source and date for this picture, id love to see it,...

me too, i would love to see a source and date for this picture. and also we are forgetting that Thermite "can not burn sideways to melt vertical columns".

El_Kabong

MakingWaves wrote:

Strange how you believe Bin Laden over everyone else. And there have also been tapes where Bin Laden says he did 9/11 and some of his people have said they did it.

i thought there was a tape saying KSM was the complete mastermind behind 9/11???

can you show me? i keep asking but no one seems able to do it: what is the PROOF of who did it? where is the PROOF it was bin laden?

it's not that i believe him over everyone else, just i haven't seen any proof other than the administration saying so and that bs tape they found where bin laden is fat, has a bigger nose, wears gold and writes w/ his wrong hand