Why should fan club members get first option on ALL the limited numbers (as you propose with the 2000 copies example). Unless the band or the 10C decide to press the vinyls themselves, these are made for and distributed by the record company. They have no obligation or loyalty to fan club members above the rest of the population that may want a PJ collectible/vinyl. Remember all, the band is a business.
...
Why not?
Why not offer it up to the Fan club first? If there are 2,000 copies and only 1,105 pre-orders come in... turn the remaining 895 to the distribution house that the Independent Record shops order from and let them buy them and sell them for what they are worth.
If the fans buy up all 2,000 in the pre-order... isn't that the same thing? All 2,000 units sold. The band isn't seeing dime one of the over retail sale ($20.00) price.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Why not?
Why not offer it up to the Fan club first? If there are 2,000 copies and only 1,105 pre-orders come in... turn the remaining 895 to the distribution house that the Independent Record shops order from and let them buy them and sell them for what they are worth.
If the fans buy up all 2,000 in the pre-order... isn't that the same thing? All 2,000 units sold. The band isn't seeing dime one of the over retail sale ($20.00) price.
Because maybe the distributor also likes his records to be available to the general public who do not visit websites and join fan clubs. But, if they saw it in the stores they might pick it up.
Not knocking you for idealistic visions... I still have some of those too but one needs to be realistic too. Hoarding medicine and reselling it at a 700% mark up to someone desperate is taking advantage of someone extremely vulnerable that NEEDS this medicine. Now THIS is morally wrong. Hoarding a vinyl to resell at 700% mark-up is greedy but the person buying it does NEED it, just wants it. I don't feel that it is wrong, just greedy. That, my friend, is the difference.
mmk yah i see that... good point... either way itd be nice for people to treat eachother as they want to be treated
if any of my friends from the "real world" were to see this thread theyd be incredibly surprised how unlike my usual cynical self i am being... im just using this as a way of experimenting with optimism... theres too much hate and sarcasm in the world today... PJ's music has really been a light in my life and i hate to see fellow fans interacting the way many of us are, anymore than i would want to see my sister in a harmful relationship
first, i find it rather funny (ironic if you will) that this thread was started by someone who was able to order a copy of the new "holy grail" of pearl jam or pearl jam related vinyl that is the into the wild soundtrack.
second, the thought to simply "up" the supply is just naive. say the vinyl had a printing of 5,000 instead of the supposed 2,000 that were made...does that make everything all better? i don't think it does because that will be a 'problem' for the 5,001st or 5,002nd person that wants one. i hate to say supply and demand, but that is what it is. there will never be enough of (insert item here) to go around to everyone that wants one.
lastly, to suggest that the 10c or the distributor simply ups the price is naive too. what new, higher price would combat the resale on the open market? $50? $100? $200? if the 10c charged $200 for the vinyl there would be a 100pg thread about how the 10c sucks and is ripping people off.
Because maybe the distributor also likes his records to be available to the general public who do not visit websites and join fan clubs. But, if they saw it in the stores they might pick it up.
thats the problem man... people arent seeing it in stores... its going straight to ebay cause greedy store owners are seeing how much they can make off of us... if nothing else, THAT issue needs to be addressed... im just saying our greed has become so publically visable that even non fans are jumpin on the inflation wagon now... that did not use to be the case... its a new thing... thats why im bringing all this up now...
Because maybe the distributor also likes his records to be available to the general public who do not visit websites and join fan clubs. But, if they saw it in the stores they might pick it up.
...
I don't understand this arguement.
The record shops can STILL order them from the distributor and place them on their shelves. The General Public visits record stores, not record distribution houses.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
thats the problem man... people arent seeing it in stores... its going straight to ebay cause greedy store owners are seeing how much they can make off of us... if nothing else, THAT issue needs to be addressed... im just saying our greed has become so publically visable that even non fans are jumpin on the inflation wagon now... that did not use to be the case... its a new thing... thats why im bringing all this up now...
..
That's because people are willing to pay inflated prices. If there were no market for these items, they would sell at face value.
The Fans control the market by paying these inflated prices. Don't blame the record store owners... they are in it for the business. The buyer who forks over 150 bucks for a 20 dollar item also contributes to the situation.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
first, i find it rather funny (ironic if you will) that this thread was started by someone who was able to order a copy of the new "holy grail" of pearl jam or pearl jam related vinyl that is the into the wild soundtrack.
second, the thought to simply "up" the supply is just naive. say the vinyl had a printing of 5,000 instead of the supposed 2,000 that were made...does that make everything all better? i don't think it does because that will be a 'problem' for the 5,001st or 5,002nd person that wants one. i hate to say supply and demand, but that is what it is. there will never be enough of (insert item here) to go around to everyone that wants one.
lastly, to suggest that the 10c or the distributor simply ups the price is naive too. what new, higher price would combat the resale on the open market? $50? $100? $200? if the 10c charged $200 for the vinyl there would be a 100pg thread about how the 10c sucks and is ripping people off.
first, i wasnt able to get a copy of the "holy grail" cause i was in class... i was lucky that a completely faceless friend from this message board whom ive talked to a few times over the years saw i missed out and she said she'd sell me her copy for face value... THAT is what i mean when im talking about treating eachother well around here... i know id do the same for anyone else here
second, a higher print # would certainly solve the problem... how often do you hear of people getting ripped off for VS. on vinyl?... if nothing else, 10C should stop getting people hyped up with all this "extremly limited" talk or at least announce how many copies are available so consumers can make an education evaluation of how much the vinyls worth
third, i dont think anyone wants to see 10C raise their prices... there has already been enough outrage about $120 hoodies and $200 posters books... the fact of the matter tho is that in both cases the inflation rate is not nearly as rampant, if it sells out at all... if thats what it takes then so be it... id rather see the 10C or the artist of the product actually see more profit than joe shmoe making a payment on his new boat
thats the problem man... people arent seeing it in stores... its going straight to ebay cause greedy store owners are seeing how much they can make off of us... if nothing else, THAT issue needs to be addressed... im just saying our greed has become so publically visable that even non fans are jumpin on the inflation wagon now... that did not use to be the case... its a new thing... thats why im bringing all this up now...
and the fact that people here have given both you and i shit for getting a little pissed off about this situation just baffles me.....
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
..
That's because people are willing to pay inflated prices. If there were no market for these items, they would sell at face value.
The Fans control the market by paying these inflated prices. Don't blame the record store owners... they are in it for the business. The buyer who forks over 150 bucks for a 20 dollar item also contributes to the situation.
yup! ive been saying it all along! im trying to raise awareness with this thread! dont buy it for that much! the fans are the problem and thats why this conversation is taking place on this fan forum...
sorry to those that are bothered by the persistant existance of this thread, but when i feel it has run its course and people truly understand my motivation for starting it in the first place, then ill let it go away... or kat can step in a close it up
PJ fans are sheep and will pay whatever price for any piece of merchandise. The band and 10C know this and more importantly, the flippers and merchants know this. I guess with an older fanbase with more disposable income, this becomes the case.
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Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
PJ fans are sheep and will pay whatever price for any piece of merchandise. The band and 10C know this and more importantly, the flippers and merchants know this. I guess with an older fanbase with more disposable income, this becomes the case.
guess ill just have to start loving a new, young, hip band... anyone know how much the maroon 5 fan club costs?
I was thinking more like MLK and Mother Theresa (as long as one of you will dress in drag). Give ourselves some credit here!
ok... speedy can be MLK... mandi will be mother theresa... and ill be john lennon cause i stand for something important! (and i havent gotten out of bed all day )
ok... speedy can be MLK... mandi will be mother theresa... and ill be john lennon cause i stand for something important! (and i havent gotten out of bed all day )
first, i wasnt able to get a copy of the "holy grail" cause i was in class... i was lucky that a completely faceless friend from this message board whom ive talked to a few times over the years saw i missed out and she said she'd sell me her copy for face value... THAT is what i mean when im talking about treating eachother well around here... i know id do the same for anyone else here
second, a higher print # would certainly solve the problem... how often do you hear of people getting ripped off for VS. on vinyl?... if nothing else, 10C should stop getting people hyped up with all this "extremly limited" talk or at least announce how many copies are available so consumers can make an education evaluation of how much the vinyls worth
third, i dont think anyone wants to see 10C raise their prices... there has already been enough outrage about $120 hoodies and $200 posters books... the fact of the matter tho is that in both cases the inflation rate is not nearly as rampant, if it sells out at all... if thats what it takes then so be it... id rather see the 10C or the artist of the product actually see more profit than joe shmoe making a payment on his new boat
(A) congrats on on having a faceless friend who was nice enough to sell you a copy for face value and for being so nice to everyone by saying you would do the same for them.
(B) while a higher print number might drop the inflated ebay/street value (that is, only if the print number was really jacked up there enough to the point where it would no longer be considered a 'limited' printing), i still don't think it would solve everything. like i said in my post, there will always be more people wanting something that there is of that something people want. it would be nice to know the number of vinyls printed, but then what happens if it is less than the speculated 2,000? prices would go up again. what if it was 3,000? would prices dramatically drop? i personally doubt it.
(C) i'm not justifying the $120 hoodie (were they really that much, i didn't think they were), but it was a handcrafted, wearable collectable that was numbered and truely limited. the $200 version of the poster book (i thought it was less than that) was AUTOGRAPHED by all artists, which was the cause of higher price. anyone could have purchased the exact same version of the book, sans autographs for a fraction of the price. are you honestly saying that you would be perfectly ok with the 10c or distributor charging $200 for the into the wild vinyl?
are you honestly saying that you would be perfectly ok with the 10c or distributor charging $200 for the into the wild vinyl?
oh obviously that was just a hypothetical worse case scenario... but if anyones gonna be marking up the price it might as well be them... they just wouldnt cause theyre above that... shouldnt we show the distributor respect by keeping what they sell at the same price they sold instead of the price they couldve sold for... and come to think of it... could you imagine the outrage we'd hear if 10C tried selling this album for $200?!? and yet, people are willing to pay some stranger that price! i dont get it...
and the fact that people here have given both you and i shit for getting a little pissed off about this situation just baffles me.....
I am just not sure that there is really a problem here that the 10C has any control over - or us, the few PJ fans who frequent this board has any control over. Record store owners can do whatever they want with their merchandise. Most things are not released as limited items - so again, this really isn't that big of a deal.
And again, no one has answered the question of who then, in this perfectly fair - non-capitalism world, who would have gotten the limited edition ITW-LP's?
I am just not sure that there is really a problem here that the 10C has any control over - or us, the few PJ fans who frequent this board has any control over. Record store owners can do whatever they want with their merchandise. Most things are not released as limited items - so again, this really isn't that big of a deal.
And again, no one has answered the question of who then, in this perfectly fair - non-capitalism world, who would have gotten he limited edition ITW-LP's?
well if were gonna dream up a perfectly idealistic world we would probably do away with the "limited edition" all together... theres no need to make anything "limited edition" other than to make it more valuable... the value should be in the physical art / music... i guess what im saying... and i dont mean to call out 10C, but i guess i shouldnt beat around the bush... doesnt 10C want these items to be valued for what they are instead of as a piece of stock?? make as many as necessary to appease the people that pay dues... i know thats gonna come off as an unfair sense of entitlement, and doesnt apply to ITW since that probably was out of 10C hands... but in general it would make sense to do away with "limited edition"
oh obviously that was just a hypothetical worse case scenario... but if anyones gonna be marking up the price it might as well be them... they just wouldnt cause theyre above that... shouldnt we show the distributor respect by keeping what they sell at the same price they sold instead of the price they couldve sold for... and come to think of it... could you imagine the outrage we'd hear if 10C tried selling this album for $200?!? and yet, people are willing to pay some stranger that price! i dont get it...
i know the $200 was a hypothetical price, but would people pay $50? $100? what would the 'reasonable' price? is there a such thing as a 'reasonable' price? i would have to think it is what each individual wanting to purchase a copy would consider the value to them would be...which ultimately means you can't try to tell people how to spend their own money.
well if were gonna dream up a perfectly idealistic world we would probably do away with the "limited edition" all together... theres no need to make anything "limited edition" other than to make it more valuable... the value should be in the physical art / music... i guess what im saying... and i dont mean to call out 10C, but i guess i shouldnt beat around the bush... doesnt 10C want these items to be valued for what they are instead of as a piece of stock?? make as many as necessary to appease the people that pay dues... i know thats gonna come off as an unfair sense of entitlement, and doesnt apply to ITW since that probably was out of 10C hands... but in general it would make sense to do away with "limited edition"
that's some dream world.
the 10c is simply the majority distributor for this item. i would think their sole responsiblity put it out for sale and distribute according to the purchase orders received.
i know the $200 was a hypothetical price, but would people pay $50? $100? what would the 'reasonable' price? is there a such thing as a 'reasonable' price? i would have to think it is what each individual wanting to purchase a copy would consider the value to them would be...which ultimately means you can't try to tell people how to spend their own money.
i think if were talking about ITW specifically... the best way to have dealt with it wouldve been an exclusive box set type deal like radiohead's "in rainbows" late last year... there was a certain number of those, but since they were something $80 they lasted a fairly long time on their website, eventually selling out meaning people would pay that much... and there is now a regular version of the record available all over for like $15-$20... i havent seen too much inflation really going on there... i guess i cant speak for the exclusive box set tho as i havent really been keeping an eye on those prices
well if were gonna dream up a perfectly idealistic world we would probably do away with the "limited edition" all together... theres no need to make anything "limited edition" other than to make it more valuable... the value should be in the physical art / music... i guess what im saying... and i dont mean to call out 10C, but i guess i shouldnt beat around the bush... doesnt 10C want these items to be valued for what they are instead of as a piece of stock?? make as many as necessary to appease the people that pay dues... i know thats gonna come off as an unfair sense of entitlement, and doesnt apply to ITW since that probably was out of 10C hands... but in general it would make sense to do away with "limited edition"
So, then you admit that is not realistic and that there is no realistic solution to this, what you consider, a problem?
Listen, it is just a part of life. And as we were all taught at a very young age, life isn't always fair. There is no changing that. You can bitch, moan, discuss, until you're blue in the face and this world will still be very unfair.
While I see your side and understand what you think is wrong - I need you to see and understand that there is no solution and that is just how this society works.
i think if were talking about ITW specifically... the best way to have dealt with it wouldve been an exclusive box set type deal like radiohead's "in rainbows" late last year... there was a certain number of those, but since they were something $80 they lasted a fairly long time on their website, eventually selling out meaning people would pay that much... and there is now a regular version of the record available all over for like $15-$20... i havent seen too much inflation really going on there... i guess i cant speak for the exclusive box set tho as i havent really been keeping an eye on those prices
the in rainbows box set just seems more substantial than the into the wild vinyl. in rainbows came in a hardback slipcase with artwork and a lyric book as well as both the heavyweight vinyl and the album in cd with a bonus disc available no where else.
for 10c/distributor to charge $80 for just the into the wild vinyl, even with the bonus 7" seems a little steep in comparison.
we will obviously see as to what happens with the secondary market for the box set once it does sell out on the website, if it hasn't already.
So, then you admit that is not realistic and that there is no realistic solution to this, what you consider, a problem?
Listen, it is just a part of life. And as we were all taught at a very young age, life isn't always fair. There is no changing that. You can bitch, moan, discuss, until you're blue in the face and this world will still be very unfair.
While I see your side and understand what you think is wrong - I need you to see and understand that there is no solution and that is just how this society works.
i understand exactly what you mean, but dude, didn't you see you were not supposed to say that just how things are?
Comments
http://seanbriceart.com/
The art of deflection, I reckon!
Why not?
Why not offer it up to the Fan club first? If there are 2,000 copies and only 1,105 pre-orders come in... turn the remaining 895 to the distribution house that the Independent Record shops order from and let them buy them and sell them for what they are worth.
If the fans buy up all 2,000 in the pre-order... isn't that the same thing? All 2,000 units sold. The band isn't seeing dime one of the over retail sale ($20.00) price.
Hail, Hail!!!
if any of my friends from the "real world" were to see this thread theyd be incredibly surprised how unlike my usual cynical self i am being... im just using this as a way of experimenting with optimism... theres too much hate and sarcasm in the world today... PJ's music has really been a light in my life and i hate to see fellow fans interacting the way many of us are, anymore than i would want to see my sister in a harmful relationship
http://seanbriceart.com/
first, i find it rather funny (ironic if you will) that this thread was started by someone who was able to order a copy of the new "holy grail" of pearl jam or pearl jam related vinyl that is the into the wild soundtrack.
second, the thought to simply "up" the supply is just naive. say the vinyl had a printing of 5,000 instead of the supposed 2,000 that were made...does that make everything all better? i don't think it does because that will be a 'problem' for the 5,001st or 5,002nd person that wants one. i hate to say supply and demand, but that is what it is. there will never be enough of (insert item here) to go around to everyone that wants one.
lastly, to suggest that the 10c or the distributor simply ups the price is naive too. what new, higher price would combat the resale on the open market? $50? $100? $200? if the 10c charged $200 for the vinyl there would be a 100pg thread about how the 10c sucks and is ripping people off.
http://seanbriceart.com/
I don't understand this arguement.
The record shops can STILL order them from the distributor and place them on their shelves. The General Public visits record stores, not record distribution houses.
Hail, Hail!!!
That's because people are willing to pay inflated prices. If there were no market for these items, they would sell at face value.
The Fans control the market by paying these inflated prices. Don't blame the record store owners... they are in it for the business. The buyer who forks over 150 bucks for a 20 dollar item also contributes to the situation.
Hail, Hail!!!
second, a higher print # would certainly solve the problem... how often do you hear of people getting ripped off for VS. on vinyl?... if nothing else, 10C should stop getting people hyped up with all this "extremly limited" talk or at least announce how many copies are available so consumers can make an education evaluation of how much the vinyls worth
third, i dont think anyone wants to see 10C raise their prices... there has already been enough outrage about $120 hoodies and $200 posters books... the fact of the matter tho is that in both cases the inflation rate is not nearly as rampant, if it sells out at all... if thats what it takes then so be it... id rather see the 10C or the artist of the product actually see more profit than joe shmoe making a payment on his new boat
http://seanbriceart.com/
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
sorry to those that are bothered by the persistant existance of this thread, but when i feel it has run its course and people truly understand my motivation for starting it in the first place, then ill let it go away... or kat can step in a close it up
http://seanbriceart.com/
Admin
Social awareness does not equal political activism!
5/23/2011- An utter embarrassment... ticketing failures too many to list.
http://seanbriceart.com/
http://seanbriceart.com/
I was thinking more like MLK and Mother Theresa (as long as one of you will dress in drag). Give yourselves some credit here!
it wouldnt be the first time either......
hehehehe..........
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
http://seanbriceart.com/
Christ, you know it ain't easy!
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
(A) congrats on on having a faceless friend who was nice enough to sell you a copy for face value and for being so nice to everyone by saying you would do the same for them.
(B) while a higher print number might drop the inflated ebay/street value (that is, only if the print number was really jacked up there enough to the point where it would no longer be considered a 'limited' printing), i still don't think it would solve everything. like i said in my post, there will always be more people wanting something that there is of that something people want. it would be nice to know the number of vinyls printed, but then what happens if it is less than the speculated 2,000? prices would go up again. what if it was 3,000? would prices dramatically drop? i personally doubt it.
(C) i'm not justifying the $120 hoodie (were they really that much, i didn't think they were), but it was a handcrafted, wearable collectable that was numbered and truely limited. the $200 version of the poster book (i thought it was less than that) was AUTOGRAPHED by all artists, which was the cause of higher price. anyone could have purchased the exact same version of the book, sans autographs for a fraction of the price. are you honestly saying that you would be perfectly ok with the 10c or distributor charging $200 for the into the wild vinyl?
http://seanbriceart.com/
And again, no one has answered the question of who then, in this perfectly fair - non-capitalism world, who would have gotten the limited edition ITW-LP's?
http://seanbriceart.com/
i know the $200 was a hypothetical price, but would people pay $50? $100? what would the 'reasonable' price? is there a such thing as a 'reasonable' price? i would have to think it is what each individual wanting to purchase a copy would consider the value to them would be...which ultimately means you can't try to tell people how to spend their own money.
that's some dream world.
the 10c is simply the majority distributor for this item. i would think their sole responsiblity put it out for sale and distribute according to the purchase orders received.
http://seanbriceart.com/
Listen, it is just a part of life. And as we were all taught at a very young age, life isn't always fair. There is no changing that. You can bitch, moan, discuss, until you're blue in the face and this world will still be very unfair.
While I see your side and understand what you think is wrong - I need you to see and understand that there is no solution and that is just how this society works.
the in rainbows box set just seems more substantial than the into the wild vinyl. in rainbows came in a hardback slipcase with artwork and a lyric book as well as both the heavyweight vinyl and the album in cd with a bonus disc available no where else.
for 10c/distributor to charge $80 for just the into the wild vinyl, even with the bonus 7" seems a little steep in comparison.
we will obviously see as to what happens with the secondary market for the box set once it does sell out on the website, if it hasn't already.
i understand exactly what you mean, but dude, didn't you see you were not supposed to say that just how things are?