Oh my god... i cant believe you are suggesting that we could actually make a difference! We are only humans in a world of capitalism.. we have no grounds to stand on... none what so ever....
Good Lord. Are you seriously comparing buying keepsake vinyl records (that most people can't play) to the struggle of the human race in capitalism?
Here's a solution... other than just showing restraint.
...
How about... when there is a 'Limited Pressing'... the Fan Club Members get first shot. If there are only 2000 copies... and 2000 Fans order one each for 20 bucks... that's it... case closed. Have the Fan Member ordering period for one week. If you can't get your shit together in one week.. that's your problem. And when they are gone... they are gone.
If there are any left over... they go to the Local Independent Record shops... who can sell them for whatever the market dictates.
...
If all 2000 copies are sold to Fan club Members... and one shows up on EBay or Craigslist... the member (seller) forfeits his/her Club Membership. Trades are still possible... like if you want to trade your copy of vinyl for a certain poster... that's cool... and encouraged.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Here's a solution... other than just showing restraint.
If all 2000 copies are sold to Fan club Members... and one shows up on EBay or Craigslist... the member (seller) forfeits his/her Club Membership. Trades are still possible... like if you want to trade your copy of vinyl for a certain poster... that's cool... and encouraged.
If you have bought a poster recently from 10C, it says "not for resale" and we see how well that goes on eBay. I think people are far more diligent on reporting 10C ticket scalping and that's been pretty effective so far.
Here's a solution... other than just showing restraint.
...
How about... when there is a 'Limited Pressing'... the Fan Club Members get first shot. If there are only 2000 copies... and 2000 Fans order one each for 20 bucks... that's it... case closed. Have the Fan Member ordering period for one week. If you can't get your shit together in one week.. that's your problem. And when they are gone... they are gone.
If there are any left over... they go to the Local Independent Record shops... who can sell them for whatever the market dictates.
...
If all 2000 copies are sold to Fan club Members... and one shows up on EBay or Craigslist... the member (seller) forfeits his/her Club Membership. Trades are still possible... like if you want to trade your copy of vinyl for a certain poster... that's cool... and encouraged.
That is a good start of an idea, but the problem comes when you have 2000 copies and 5000 fans. Which is why I would think my pre-order idea (where they take orders before anything is manufacturered) would be the best way to go. So far I have not seen anyone present any reasons why it wouldn't work.
Here's a solution... other than just showing restraint.
...
How about... when there is a 'Limited Pressing'... the Fan Club Members get first shot. If there are only 2000 copies... and 2000 Fans order one each for 20 bucks... that's it... case closed. Have the Fan Member ordering period for one week. If you can't get your shit together in one week.. that's your problem. And when they are gone... they are gone.
If there are any left over... they go to the Local Independent Record shops... who can sell them for whatever the market dictates.
...
If all 2000 copies are sold to Fan club Members... and one shows up on EBay or Craigslist... the member (seller) forfeits his/her Club Membership. Trades are still possible... like if you want to trade your copy of vinyl for a certain poster... that's cool... and encouraged.
see... yes... that wouldve been a much better idea... i dont see why the record stores had copies at all... granted its just ed and the movie people probably wanted the soundtrack more widely distributed than just through 10C... but still... i think it wouldve made sense... or atleast make the 10C version different as we all originally thought it would be
but thats just regarding the instance of the vinyl situation...
and fanch of course this is a part of the overall capitalist struggle... how is it not?? certainly, it is just one simple piece to the puzzle that effect very few, but these things add up... its constantly creating a set of standards about what is and is not ok to do from a business stand point
...
How about... when there is a 'Limited Pressing'... the Fan Club Members get first shot. If there are only 2000 copies... and 2000 Fans order one each for 20 bucks... that's it... case closed. Have the Fan Member ordering period for one week. If you can't get your shit together in one week.. that's your problem. And when they are gone... they are gone.
If there are any left over... they go to the Local Independent Record shops... who can sell them for whatever the market dictates..
Why should fan club members get first option on ALL the limited numbers (as you propose with the 2000 copies example). Unless the band or the 10C decide to press the vinyls themselves, these are made for and distributed by the record company. They have no obligation or loyalty to fan club members above the rest of the population that may want a PJ collectible/vinyl. Remember all, the band is a business.
If you have bought a poster recently from 10C, it says "not for resale" and we see how well that goes on eBay. I think people are far more diligent on reporting 10C ticket scalping and that's been pretty effective so far.
i think the problem laur, with the posters anyway, is thats theres no way to differentiate between the posters bought at shows (which i believe can freely be resold) and the 10C posters (which say not for resale)... not to mention its probably alot of work that 10C would rather not do to trace somebodys ebay user name back to their 10C account and then cancel their membership... plus with certain things like the 98 posters and such the inflation is a lil more understandable because of their age and how then do we establish if its ok to resell those and if so how much should people be allowed to charge... i mean theres no real answers to any of the questions that have been brought up here (atleast from a consumer POV)... the only solution is for 10C to change how it does things... which is a lofty thing to ask, but maybe in the best interest of its members
I think being in the 10c entitles one to the following when PJ comes to your neck of the woods!
1) A 10 minute skate with Jeff!
2) 10 minutes of listening to shitty bands with Matt!
3) One smoke with Boom!
4) 10 minutes of being awesome with Mike!
5) 10 minutes of studdering with Ed!
6) And last but not least.....your taxes done by Stone!
I think being in the 10c entitles one to the following when PJ comes to your neck of the woods!
1) A 10 minute skate with Jeff!
2) 10 minutes of listening to shitty bands with Matt!
3) One smoke with Boom!
4) 10 minutes of being awesome with Mike!
5) 10 minutes of studdering with Ed!
6) And last but not least.....your taxes done by Stone!
What are you waiting for?!?!? Call now!!!!!
i called and ordered option 4...
seriously tho... that is completely off topic... im not asking for any preferential treatment at all from 10C... the point of my thread was to have us all show preferential treatment to one another... i know its a utopian idea but as fellow fans i didnt think it was too much to ask... obviously sarcasm and cynicism is easier to do
So, who gets the limited copies of ITW vinyl (for example)? Who decides if not the market? Does no one get them?
A fine question. In this scenario where there is no capitalism and all is equal and fair for everyone; who would get the limited release ITW-LP? In this little scene would everything be plentiful for everyone to have until the last person on earth claims they don't want it or already have it, and then, and not before then, can production of said item stop?
Let me just bottom line it for you all. Trying to compare the sale of human beings under a free market society to any inanimate object under a free market society is just plain retarded. Congratulations, you came up with the worst analogy ever.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Let me just bottom line it for you all. Trying to compare the sale of human beings under a free market society to any inanimate object under a free market society is just plain retarded. Congratulations, you came up with the worst analogy ever.
why is everyone missing the fucking point here though? You guys are slow today :P
Sorry, but there is no real problem here. Nothing to solve or fix. Nothing to be done or waste time on. This isn't slavery for crying out loud, as was previously compared to. It's about a fucking record. One that was made in limited supply - NOT BY THE 10C. Would you and the thread starter have chosen that no one gets these and they all get unloaded on eBay - or they just sit in a box in a warehouse because there isn't enough to go around? Or should everything be mass produced for everyone in the world to have a copy - whether they want one or not, there better be enough made for everyone or none at all? This isn't grade school.
Let me just bottom line it for you all. Trying to compare the sale of human beings under a free market society to any inanimate object under a free market society is just plain retarded. Congratulations, you came up with the worst analogy ever.
and let me say this again... its not about INANIMATE OBJECTS! its about how we treat one another... there are fans looking to take advantage of other fans... and in turn there are now many many non fans looking to do the same... and we are essentially selling our own human selves if were willing to shill out all our morals to make a quick buck... the comparison is not slave to vinyl... its the common greed shown by the people who allow injustice to continue unchecked
.. and we are essentially selling our own human selves if were willing to shill out all our morals to make a quick buck...
Ummm... this is an lp we are talking about... let's get things back into perspective. We're not talking food for the hungry, medicines for those who desperately need it, etc. It's just an lp/poster/book... whatever limited editions we may get via the 10c.
you know, seeing all this whining makes me want to put both my ITW and benaroya vinyls on ebay just to spite people.
nobodys whining... do as you please with your stuff... my beef is with the people that buy it for $200, not the people that try selling it... i have everything PJ id ever want / need... i just wanted to start conversation about an issue that effects all of us... and i think ive done that... i hope we can continue to be mature and see where this takes us... and i encourage all you reaganites to think as a communist for a bit just to see what im talking about... communism is afterall good in principle... in a group as relatively small as the PJ fan club it could work
my beef is with the people that buy it for $200, not the people that try selling it...
But they are willing to pay the $200 for it, so be it. But I'm confused because in a previous post you were talking about the greed of those out to make a quick buck.
Ummm... this is an lp we are talking about... let's get things back into perspective. We're not talking food for the hungry, medicines for those who desperately need it, etc. It's just an lp/poster/book... whatever limited editions we may get via the 10c.
ok... and entirely hypothetically... im saying my problem right now is that there are people amongst this fan base that would hoard 10C limited edition medicine to mark up 700% and sell it to someone sick enough to pay the price... all i meant was that if these people are on this board and they see how many people think what theyre doing is just plain wrong, maybe their conscience will stop them from doing it as often or at all... its idealistic... completely! but so am i.... and dont knock me for that... plus its my birthday!
communism is afterall good in principle... in a group as relatively small as the PJ fan club it could work
Except that the PJ fan club lives, breathes, and works in a free society. There is no way to control what anyone does with their own stuff or money. And there is no way to block people out of the club who may have other reasons for joining other than they are a real fan of the band.
So, you have talked a lot about what you don't like about this society we live in. How do you realistically propose to fix what you see as grave issues?
But they are willing to pay the $200 for it, so be it. But I'm confused because in a previous post you were talking about the greed of those out to make a quick buck.
damn... now i know how it feels to be a presidential candidate (another overblown analogy)... im just trying to appease people at this point... i know people are gonna continue doing this... especially that person who said theyd do it just to spite me... the fact of the matter is that person couldnt make a quick buck if people werent paying his prices... theres gotta be a balance between seller greed and buyer saviness for any of this to work (and i know it wont... like i said im just opening up some discussion in hopes of maybe swaying the opinions of a few)
That is a good start of an idea, but the problem comes when you have 2000 copies and 5000 fans. Which is why I would think my pre-order idea (where they take orders before anything is manufacturered) would be the best way to go. So far I have not seen anyone present any reasons why it wouldn't work.
...
Pre-Order is fine. But, who do you take? The first 2,000 that order or toss the 5,000 in a hat and pull 2,000 names?
I think the first come, first served rule should apply. I mean, that's how it works at General Admission gigs. right?
...
The only problem I can see with the prior to manufacturing (production) is the production schedule. There are other factors in play. For example, if they make an annoucement for a specific item and only recieve 150 pre-orders... should you go ahead and produce 150 copies... or produce 2,000 copies and run the risk of having 1,850 sitting in inventory... or cancel the order due to lack of interest?
...
I think the deal for the Ten/VHC should be... think up something cool... make a limited run (what you can afford to produce with up front costs)... offer it up for sale. Fan Club members pre-order first, distributors to local independent record stores and sales to the general public from their website next.
If you didn't get one in the Pre-Sale... and the general public gets their hands on them... then, it's out and there's nothing you can do about it. The Fans control the market... if someone is willing to pay 150 bucks for a 20 dollar item... there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
ok... and entirely hypothetically... im saying my problem right now is that there are people amongst this fan base that would hoard 10C limited edition medicine to mark up 700% and sell it to someone sick enough to pay the price... all i meant was that if these people are on this board and they see how many people think what theyre doing is just plain wrong, maybe their conscience will stop them from doing it as often or at all... its idealistic... completely! but so am i.... and dont knock me for that... plus its my birthday!
People were not allowed to hoard this who bought it from the 10C as there was a limit of 1.
If people were able to obtain some from other means, then that has nothing to do with the fan club.
ok... and entirely hypothetically... im saying my problem right now is that there are people amongst this fan base that would hoard 10C limited edition medicine to mark up 700% and sell it to someone sick enough to pay the price... all i meant was that if these people are on this board and they see how many people think what theyre doing is just plain wrong, maybe their conscience will stop them from doing it as often or at all... its idealistic... completely! but so am i.... and dont knock me for that... plus its my birthday!
Happy Birthday!
Not knocking you for idealistic visions... I still have some of those too but one needs to be realistic too. Hoarding medicine and reselling it at a 700% mark up to someone desperate is taking advantage of someone extremely vulnerable that NEEDS this medicine. Now THIS is morally wrong. Hoarding a vinyl to resell at 700% mark-up is greedy but the person buying it doesn't NEED it, just wants it. I don't feel that it is wrong, just greedy. That, my friend, is the difference.
Comments
Well, we don't need him in our fan clubs......PJ and my people can do without him.
gotta stay on topic so my thread doesnt got shut down!
http://seanbriceart.com/
Good Lord. Are you seriously comparing buying keepsake vinyl records (that most people can't play) to the struggle of the human race in capitalism?
I accomplish a lot in a day. I work. I can afford records.
...
How about... when there is a 'Limited Pressing'... the Fan Club Members get first shot. If there are only 2000 copies... and 2000 Fans order one each for 20 bucks... that's it... case closed. Have the Fan Member ordering period for one week. If you can't get your shit together in one week.. that's your problem. And when they are gone... they are gone.
If there are any left over... they go to the Local Independent Record shops... who can sell them for whatever the market dictates.
...
If all 2000 copies are sold to Fan club Members... and one shows up on EBay or Craigslist... the member (seller) forfeits his/her Club Membership. Trades are still possible... like if you want to trade your copy of vinyl for a certain poster... that's cool... and encouraged.
Hail, Hail!!!
If you have bought a poster recently from 10C, it says "not for resale" and we see how well that goes on eBay. I think people are far more diligent on reporting 10C ticket scalping and that's been pretty effective so far.
This is my kind of love...
♥♥♥
That is a good start of an idea, but the problem comes when you have 2000 copies and 5000 fans. Which is why I would think my pre-order idea (where they take orders before anything is manufacturered) would be the best way to go. So far I have not seen anyone present any reasons why it wouldn't work.
but thats just regarding the instance of the vinyl situation...
and fanch of course this is a part of the overall capitalist struggle... how is it not?? certainly, it is just one simple piece to the puzzle that effect very few, but these things add up... its constantly creating a set of standards about what is and is not ok to do from a business stand point
http://seanbriceart.com/
http://seanbriceart.com/
1) A 10 minute skate with Jeff!
2) 10 minutes of listening to shitty bands with Matt!
3) One smoke with Boom!
4) 10 minutes of being awesome with Mike!
5) 10 minutes of studdering with Ed!
6) And last but not least.....your taxes done by Stone!
What are you waiting for?!?!? Call now!!!!!
seriously tho... that is completely off topic... im not asking for any preferential treatment at all from 10C... the point of my thread was to have us all show preferential treatment to one another... i know its a utopian idea but as fellow fans i didnt think it was too much to ask... obviously sarcasm and cynicism is easier to do
http://seanbriceart.com/
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Man, I could hear the "bitch slap" from here!
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg
http://seanbriceart.com/
haha, yeah. and then donate the proceeds to the NRA just to cap it off.
Ummm... this is an lp we are talking about... let's get things back into perspective. We're not talking food for the hungry, medicines for those who desperately need it, etc. It's just an lp/poster/book... whatever limited editions we may get via the 10c.
http://seanbriceart.com/
http://seanbriceart.com/
So, you have talked a lot about what you don't like about this society we live in. How do you realistically propose to fix what you see as grave issues?
http://seanbriceart.com/
Pre-Order is fine. But, who do you take? The first 2,000 that order or toss the 5,000 in a hat and pull 2,000 names?
I think the first come, first served rule should apply. I mean, that's how it works at General Admission gigs. right?
...
The only problem I can see with the prior to manufacturing (production) is the production schedule. There are other factors in play. For example, if they make an annoucement for a specific item and only recieve 150 pre-orders... should you go ahead and produce 150 copies... or produce 2,000 copies and run the risk of having 1,850 sitting in inventory... or cancel the order due to lack of interest?
...
I think the deal for the Ten/VHC should be... think up something cool... make a limited run (what you can afford to produce with up front costs)... offer it up for sale. Fan Club members pre-order first, distributors to local independent record stores and sales to the general public from their website next.
If you didn't get one in the Pre-Sale... and the general public gets their hands on them... then, it's out and there's nothing you can do about it. The Fans control the market... if someone is willing to pay 150 bucks for a 20 dollar item... there's nothing anyone can do about it.
Hail, Hail!!!
Schindlers List was much more important then your list.
Worst Comparison Ever!
(Worse then the slavery comparison!)
If people were able to obtain some from other means, then that has nothing to do with the fan club.
sadly that might be the most unrealistic proposal yet...
http://seanbriceart.com/
Happy Birthday!
Not knocking you for idealistic visions... I still have some of those too but one needs to be realistic too. Hoarding medicine and reselling it at a 700% mark up to someone desperate is taking advantage of someone extremely vulnerable that NEEDS this medicine. Now THIS is morally wrong. Hoarding a vinyl to resell at 700% mark-up is greedy but the person buying it doesn't NEED it, just wants it. I don't feel that it is wrong, just greedy. That, my friend, is the difference.